First Holyrood, next stop the UN MSP urges first minister to apply for Scotland to become a member of the United Nations FIRST MINISTER Alex Salmond has been asked to consider plans for Scotland to become a member of the international community by joining the United Nations.
The SNP leader is being urged to apply for UN observer status as part of the Executive's drive to enhance the country's global influence.
It would mean Scotland having speaking rights on one of the world's most important international bodies and give Salmond a seat at the upcoming talks on nuclear non-proliferation.
The plan has been suggested by SNP MSP Michael Matheson as a contribution to Salmond's "national conversation" on constitutional change, which he launched last week. Matheson has written to the first minister urging him to apply to join the UN.
Only sovereign states can be recognised as full members of the UN, but Matheson has received legal advice to the effect that Scotland could apply for observer status. If the application were approved, a Scottish representative could speak at UN meetings without having voting rights. UN membership would also allow a member of the Executive to attend the forthcoming talks on replacing the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
One non-member state with UN observer status is the Holy See, which covers the territory of the Vatican City.
Matheson says in his letter: "As a way of developing Scotland's voice internationally, I believe the Scottish government should consider applying for UN observer status as a prelude to full membership once independence is gained. The prospects of succeeding with such an application, I believe, are reasonable, as such status is a matter for the UN rather than Westminster."
Scottish membership could be blocked by the UK, as in the case of China thwarting Taiwan. In that context, Matheson says, the Executive could apply for observer status as a non-governmental organisation, like the Palestine Liberation Organisation succeeded in doing in 1974.
Dr Rebecca Johnson, who co-founded the Acronym Institute for Disarmament Diplomacy, said it was legally possible for Scotland to join the UN. "Scotland's first application should be the formal one for observer status as a country of transition," she said. "This might take time, so in the interim a fallback position would be for the Executive to create a formal identity under UN rules and apply that way."
In an article for the Sunday Herald, advocate John Mayer also backs calls for a UN application. "Scotland ought to be applying to the UN for observer status as a prelude to full membership once independence is here," he said.
SNP insiders say the plan is in keeping with Salmond's desire to have Scotland represented on international bodies.
A spokesman for the Labour Party said: "The SNP's independence plans and posturing on constitutional issues are not in Scotland's interests, which is why they are so deeply unpopular with the Scottish people.The SNP's idea of a conversation is a one-way megaphone with independence the message."
A spokesman for the Executive said: "Around 1000 people have joined the debate on our national conversation website, and we welcome each and every one of those contributions, which will form part of the most wide-ranging, inclusive, imaginative and direct effort from any Scottish government to engage with every person in this country who has a view on the future of our nation."
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Posted by: stuart donaldson on 12:47am Sun 19 Aug 07
Labour are nuts take this contribution
"A spokesman for the Labour Party said: "The SNP's independence plans and posturing on constitutional issues are not in Scotland's interests, which is why they are so deeply unpopular with the Scottish people"
eh have you seen a n opinion poll
and would Labour dare same the same about the Vatican City??? -- think about it
Labour are nuts take this contribution
"A spokesman for the Labour Party said: "The SNP's independence plans and posturing on constitutional issues are not in Scotland's interests, which is why they are so deeply unpopular with the Scottish people"
eh have you seen a n opinion poll
and would Labour dare same the same about the Vatican City??? -- think about it
Posted by: Plobotsky on 12:52am Sun 19 Aug 07
Well, Mugabe will love this, as would Idi Amin in his day. Imagine how Milosevic would have used this a few years ago!
We can look forward to any tinpot dictatorship exploiting this nonsense whenever the UK government stands up to them.
Well, Mugabe will love this, as would Idi Amin in his day. Imagine how Milosevic would have used this a few years ago!
We can look forward to any tinpot dictatorship exploiting this nonsense whenever the UK government stands up to them.
Posted by: Kevin, Glasgow on 2:14am Sun 19 Aug 07
Is it not the case that the reason the Holy See only has observer status at the UN is the same reason it is not a member of the EU.
It isn't a democracy!
An SNP ambition perhaps?
Is it not the case that the reason the Holy See only has observer status at the UN is the same reason it is not a member of the EU.
It isn't a democracy!
An SNP ambition perhaps?
Posted by: paul h, fife on 3:49am Sun 19 Aug 07
Don't you just love being told what you find to be deeply unpopular by the labour party. [bold][italic]For a party that knows exactly what 'the Scottish people' are thinking at all times, they haven't been too successful recently.[/italic] [/bold]
Don't you just love being told what you find to be deeply unpopular by the labour party.
For a party that knows exactly what 'the Scottish people' are thinking at all times, they haven't been too successful recently. Posted by: Foxy, This planet on 8:22am Sun 19 Aug 07
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.
Posted by: John J, Edinburgh on 9:22am Sun 19 Aug 07
The best idea from this SNP minority government so far. We have always kept our own legal, education, etc systems and that should help to identify us as a nation. If this goes ahead it will be interesting to see how many nations back us and even more interesting to see who tries to stop us and why they do so.
The best idea from this SNP minority government so far. We have always kept our own legal, education, etc systems and that should help to identify us as a nation. If this goes ahead it will be interesting to see how many nations back us and even more interesting to see who tries to stop us and why they do so.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 10:48am Sun 19 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Foxy[/bold] wrote:
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.[/quote] Nothing wrong with the idea and worth taking further. At least the SNP government have aspirations for Scotland, where as Labour simply doesnt have any aspirations at all!
By the way what attacks on our east coast economy?
Foxy wrote:
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.
Nothing wrong with the idea and worth taking further. At least the SNP government have aspirations for Scotland, where as Labour simply doesnt have any aspirations at all!
By the way what attacks on our east coast economy?
Posted by: Conway, east lothian on 11:24am Sun 19 Aug 07
My oh my what is it with the Unionists that they want to keep Scotland down ? If they have a better way of promoting Scotland lets hear it.
If New Labour continue with this type of negative statements they will go the same way as the Conservatives.......
.
My oh my what is it with the Unionists that they want to keep Scotland down ? If they have a better way of promoting Scotland lets hear it.
If New Labour continue with this type of negative statements they will go the same way as the Conservatives.......
.
Posted by: bullyweealba, Edinburgh on 11:41am Sun 19 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Foxy[/bold] wrote:
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.[/quote] Selective attacks on our east-coast economy?
Would these include scrapping the tolls on the Forth Bridge, support for a new Forth Crossing, retention of civil service jobs in Edinburgh, abolishing small business rates, dualling of the A9, support the proposed Rosyth-Shetland-Norw
ay ferry link
no?
Well, what exactly DO you mean?
Foxy wrote:
Scotland join United Nations? Good grief Alex Salmond,s selective attacks on our east coast economy proves we cannot even unite ourselves.
Selective attacks on our east-coast economy?
Would these include scrapping the tolls on the Forth Bridge, support for a new Forth Crossing, retention of civil service jobs in Edinburgh, abolishing small business rates, dualling of the A9, support the proposed Rosyth-Shetland-Norw
ay ferry link
no?
Well, what exactly DO you mean?
Posted by: Mike, The Black Isle on 12:55pm Sun 19 Aug 07
This seems a marvellous idea to me; Scotland having a presence on the world stage, only 300 years late, no wonder the unionists hate it! It's just a shame that we can't do the same in Europe, and have even a BIT of a say in our fishing quotas, let alone everything else.
IT'S TIME
This seems a marvellous idea to me; Scotland having a presence on the world stage, only 300 years late, no wonder the unionists hate it! It's just a shame that we can't do the same in Europe, and have even a BIT of a say in our fishing quotas, let alone everything else.
IT'S TIME
Posted by: Jenn Watson http://besomabroad.b
logspot.com, Austin, TX (via Glasgow) on 4:45pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Yes, it is about time that Scotland had a presence on the international stage! Maybe if we were able to see ourselves contributing to important international debates, we would finally develop more self-confidence as a nation.
Yes, it is about time that Scotland had a presence on the international stage! Maybe if we were able to see ourselves contributing to important international debates, we would finally develop more self-confidence as a nation.
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 6:49pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Labour says it's not in Scotland's interests; it must be the correct course of action then! Go for it.
Labour says it's not in Scotland's interests; it must be the correct course of action then! Go for it.
Posted by: David, Edinburgh on 7:09pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Oh yes, what a great way to spend money now - a little mission to the UN while we "wait" for independence to happen.
Let's just dispatch putative diplomats all over the world to await the call. Why wait? And passports - just start handing them out now in anticipation.
What about the 60% or more who don't actually assume that independence is "when" and not still "if"?
Oh yes, what a great way to spend money now - a little mission to the UN while we "wait" for independence to happen.
Let's just dispatch putative diplomats all over the world to await the call. Why wait? And passports - just start handing them out now in anticipation.
What about the 60% or more who don't actually assume that independence is "when" and not still "if"?
Posted by: Maxmillion, Scotland on 7:26pm Sun 19 Aug 07
David, do you mean the 61% of Scots who expect Scotland to be independent in the next 20 years (with repect to the poll carried out in The Times, this morning?)
The problem is that the more outward thinking Scots do anticipate independence as the natural conclusion of the
Representing oneself on the international stage shows dynamism, determination and a do-it-yourself attitdue. Representing oneself internationally is an investment, if it allows our voice to be projecting into the fora where it matters.
But then I don't expect the ever dwindling number of supplicant unionists - who'd prefer to sit back and let someone else take responsibility - to ever expect Scotland to take responsibility for itself.
David, do you mean the 61% of Scots who expect Scotland to be independent in the next 20 years (with repect to the poll carried out in The Times, this morning?)
The problem is that the more outward thinking Scots do anticipate independence as the natural conclusion of the
Representing oneself on the international stage shows dynamism, determination and a do-it-yourself attitdue. Representing oneself internationally is an investment, if it allows our voice to be projecting into the fora where it matters.
But then I don't expect the ever dwindling number of supplicant unionists - who'd prefer to sit back and let someone else take responsibility - to ever expect Scotland to take responsibility for itself.
Posted by: Gianni on 8:05pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Any self-respecting human being wants to have liberty to pursue their own interests, be self-sufficient, engage in the wider world and be recognised as having all of these qualities and to be making the best of them. A nation, after all, can be thought of as an extended persona and so there is no reason why such attributes of the individual should not also apply to a nation. The Unionist contingent reveal so much about their own mentality when they argue against these positive attributes for a Scottish nation. This is why I have no respect for Unionists and never will and it is why their point of view will not prevail because it is corrupt and pathetic.
Free Scotland to engage fully and equally with the world.
Any self-respecting human being wants to have liberty to pursue their own interests, be self-sufficient, engage in the wider world and be recognised as having all of these qualities and to be making the best of them. A nation, after all, can be thought of as an extended persona and so there is no reason why such attributes of the individual should not also apply to a nation. The Unionist contingent reveal so much about their own mentality when they argue against these positive attributes for a Scottish nation. This is why I have no respect for Unionists and never will and it is why their point of view will not prevail because it is corrupt and pathetic.
Free Scotland to engage fully and equally with the world.
Posted by: Plobotsky on 8:43pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Gianni, are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the nationalists who want to break up the United Kingdon is corrupt and pathetic?
Because if so, that's a hell of a way to conduct a "national conversation". Why should we engage in conversation with those who hold that view of their fellow citizens? Do you even believe that we should have the rights of citizens?
Gianni, are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the nationalists who want to break up the United Kingdon is corrupt and pathetic?
Because if so, that's a hell of a way to conduct a "national conversation". Why should we engage in conversation with those who hold that view of their fellow citizens? Do you even believe that we should have the rights of citizens?
Posted by: Gianni on 9:03pm Sun 19 Aug 07
Perhaps, Plobotsky, you should ask yourself the justifications for your own belief in British Nationalism and the dominance of the status quo. Perhaps you should ask what it means to be a citizen and you should examine your justificatiosn for maintaining a Union that has sent Scottish troops into foreign adventures for the sake of capital gain for the rich, plundered natural resources, 'educated' our young into believeing the Scottish people are 'subsidy junkies' as a fact (it's in the modern studies textbooks). Plus, there's no need to pretend to be so stupid as to ask if I think you should have rights as citizens (or do you mean loyal and subsrvient Subjects) because of course everyone has a right to opinion, just as I think the Unionist position is pathetic because it relies on the belief that the Scottish people have no right to sovereignty. There's no argument that can justify denying a people the right to sovereignty except an argument that is corrupt and pathetic.
PS (important)
I have no doubt you, Plobotsky, have interpreted the above as an attack on indivduals such as yourself who believe in the Union and yet I never called Unionists pathetic or corrupt as you suggest. I call the ideology of Unionism pathetic and corrupt and that I have no respect for people who hold as a belief a pathetic and corrupt ideology. There's a great, great difference and yet you attempt to suggest otherwise. I suppose the political tactics of your Unionist leaders have rubbed off and so you try to dress valid arguments of opposition as great insults to your cosy political world. I am entitled to believe that points of view are either corrupt or not corrupt and likewise pathetic or not pathetic, as equally am I entitled to repct to who I wish, and next time actually read and understand the point of view a person is making before you attack them.
Perhaps, Plobotsky, you should ask yourself the justifications for your own belief in British Nationalism and the dominance of the status quo. Perhaps you should ask what it means to be a citizen and you should examine your justificatiosn for maintaining a Union that has sent Scottish troops into foreign adventures for the sake of capital gain for the rich, plundered natural resources, 'educated' our young into believeing the Scottish people are 'subsidy junkies' as a fact (it's in the modern studies textbooks). Plus, there's no need to pretend to be so stupid as to ask if I think you should have rights as citizens (or do you mean loyal and subsrvient Subjects) because of course everyone has a right to opinion, just as I think the Unionist position is pathetic because it relies on the belief that the Scottish people have no right to sovereignty. There's no argument that can justify denying a people the right to sovereignty except an argument that is corrupt and pathetic.
PS (important)
I have no doubt you, Plobotsky, have interpreted the above as an attack on indivduals such as yourself who believe in the Union and yet I never called Unionists pathetic or corrupt as you suggest. I call the ideology of Unionism pathetic and corrupt and that I have no respect for people who hold as a belief a pathetic and corrupt ideology. There's a great, great difference and yet you attempt to suggest otherwise. I suppose the political tactics of your Unionist leaders have rubbed off and so you try to dress valid arguments of opposition as great insults to your cosy political world. I am entitled to believe that points of view are either corrupt or not corrupt and likewise pathetic or not pathetic, as equally am I entitled to repct to who I wish, and next time actually read and understand the point of view a person is making before you attack them.
Posted by: Shirley Hodge, Glasgow on 10:00am Mon 20 Aug 07
This gets funnier by the minute. I would be interested in knowing when the nationalists plan on applying for Scotland to host the Olympic Games and our very own atom-bomb.(sic)
This gets funnier by the minute. I would be interested in knowing when the nationalists plan on applying for Scotland to host the Olympic Games and our very own atom-bomb.(sic)
Posted by: David Russell, Newton Mearns on 8:12am Tue 21 Aug 07
'Is it not the case that the reason the Holy See only has observer status at the UN is the same reason it is not a member of the EU.
It isn't a democracy!'
Yes, I'm sure that's right. Except for the wee detail that just about every country on earth is a UN member - including Zimbabwe, Burma, China, Iran etc.
'Is it not the case that the reason the Holy See only has observer status at the UN is the same reason it is not a member of the EU.
It isn't a democracy!'
Yes, I'm sure that's right. Except for the wee detail that just about every country on earth is a UN member - including Zimbabwe, Burma, China, Iran etc.
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