Alexander’s first test as Foulkes brands her spin doctor an ‘idiot’ Peer criticises ‘verbal briefing’ and also slams former first minister WENDY ALEXANDER'S honeymoon as Scottish Labour leader has ended abruptly after one of her senior MSPs described her new spin doctor as an "idiot".
Lord Foulkes, a Labour member for Lothians, has made a complaint about the party's head of communications, Brian Lironi, for allegedly briefing against him.
The MSP also slammed former Labour first minister Henry McLeish, who has criticised his party in recent weeks, by describing him as a "strange guy" who should "shut up".
The outspoken remarks are set to overshadow Alexander's coronation as leader of Scottish Labour, which was formally confirmed last week.
Alexander wants her party's MSPs, MPs and councillors to work together in pursuit of defeating the SNP at the 2011 Holyrood election, an objective which is unlikely to be helped by infighting and name-calling.
The Foulkes row was caused by a demand the peer made last week for MSPs to receive more expenses, which led to Lironi, a former journalist and Alexander's new spin doctor, issuing a press release distancing the Labour group in Holyrood from his remarks.
In response, Foulkes told the Sunday Herald: "Despite what that idiot Lironi said, Labour MSPs agree with me." Referring to Lironi's alleged "verbal briefing", he said: "I have complained about it."
He added: "Maybe it's difficult for someone who has been a journalist to change and move to being a press officer. If I was in his position, I would have said look, the group has not yet adopted a formal position on it', but to imply or even say that members do not share the view was wrong.
"It's just a matter of explaining to people that, if they work for the group, they have to be rather more careful."
He also claimed that the Labour group, far from disagreeing with his call for more expenses, "absolutely" backed him. Foulkes, a former MP, also turned his guns on McLeish, who has made a number of criticisms of Labour this year.
He said McLeish, who resigned as first minister in 2001 after an expenses scandal, should watch his words. "I find him a strange guy," he said. "He's got a certain ability in a political sense, but not to have been first minister.
"I would think that anyone with any degree of statesmanship and diplomacy and understanding of politics, who had left under the kind of circumstances Henry did, would have felt it was appropriate to keep quiet for a good few years. I think it is time for him to shut up."
In another dig at McLeish, Foulkes said: "Loads of people at Westminster could never understand how Henry became a minister of state even. He used to brief against colleagues all the time He used to stab people in the back."
McLeish responded: "These comments are beneath contempt and don't deserve any response whatsoever. George Foulkes will have to deal with his own problems."
The peer's criticisms are set to undermine Alexander's launch today of a "virtual" think tank, designed to refresh Scottish Labour's policies.
The new venture, called Ideas Scotland, will be run by Oxford University academic Gregg McClymont and will have an "at-arms-length" relationship with the party.
A Labour spokesman declined to comment on Foulkes's comments, but a Labour group insider said: "There is no collective Labour group decision on the expenses system, so George's views on expenses are his own.
"His views on Brian Lironi are not shared by the Labour group, which is putting in place the staff and resources to expose the SNP government and its gimmick-driven, opportunist, wreckless spending commitments."
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Posted by: Im no really here on 10:29pm Sat 15 Sep 07
I love it when Lord Haw Haw starts spouting. He's not related to Jeremy Paxman is he?
"Gregg McClymont and will have an "at-arms-length" relationship with the party." Reminds you of TIE and other "ventures" that the Labour Party have started. Does "at-arms-length" mean they have to stretch to get the stuffed brown envelopes.
I love it when Lord Haw Haw starts spouting. He's not related to Jeremy Paxman is he?
"Gregg McClymont and will have an "at-arms-length" relationship with the party." Reminds you of TIE and other "ventures" that the Labour Party have started. Does "at-arms-length" mean they have to stretch to get the stuffed brown envelopes.
Posted by: Bob on 10:42pm Sat 15 Sep 07
I know George Foulkes is a Lord.
That does not mean everything he utters is gospel.
I know George Foulkes is a Lord.
That does not mean everything he utters is gospel.
Posted by: Addison De Witt, Drinking cocktails at a cafe The Champs Elysees Paris on 10:53pm Sat 15 Sep 07
His Lordship George Foulkes, BUFFOON and WINDBAG
Rants and Raves,
Shouts and Screams.
Foams at the mouth,
And calls some one an idiot.
I will leave you with Three Words.
POT, KETTLE, BLACK. !!!
Addison De Witt
His Lordship George Foulkes, BUFFOON and WINDBAG
Rants and Raves,
Shouts and Screams.
Foams at the mouth,
And calls some one an idiot.
I will leave you with Three Words.
POT, KETTLE, BLACK. !!!
Addison De Witt
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 10:55pm Sat 15 Sep 07
.
[bold]A strange guy who should shut up[/bold]
Oh aye,right enough so, Mi Lud Phucks.
[bold]to expose the government and its gimmick-driven, opportunist, wreckless spending commitments.[/bold]
Nothern rock bail out, Trident, foreign adventures,PFI's / PPP's, et al. Aye, ah agree with yon.
How's plausible,prudence Brown's 15% pals in the equity beezness? It wasn't just odinary folk that were a trifle apprehensive in the Northern Rock hiccup, was it? Nice of his pals to have a word of influence or two.Just to reassure ordinary folk, naturally.
.
.
A strange guy who should shut up
Oh aye,right enough so, Mi Lud Phucks.
to expose the government and its gimmick-driven, opportunist, wreckless spending commitments.
Nothern rock bail out, Trident, foreign adventures,PFI's / PPP's, et al. Aye, ah agree with yon.
How's plausible,prudence Brown's 15% pals in the equity beezness? It wasn't just odinary folk that were a trifle apprehensive in the Northern Rock hiccup, was it? Nice of his pals to have a word of influence or two.Just to reassure ordinary folk, naturally.
.
Posted by: Im no really here on 11:21pm Sat 15 Sep 07
Just a thought. If Wendy intended to be true to her word and actually listen and take into account what the people of Scotland want, then she wouldn't need Management Consultants and Spin Doctors.
It is clear from the outset that she and "Maggie" Brown are off the one mind that they must "buy" votes and con people into supporting them.
Just a thought. If Wendy intended to be true to her word and actually listen and take into account what the people of Scotland want, then she wouldn't need Management Consultants and Spin Doctors.
It is clear from the outset that she and "Maggie" Brown are off the one mind that they must "buy" votes and con people into supporting them.
Posted by: Dougthedug on 11:43pm Sat 15 Sep 07
"WENDY ALEXANDER'S honeymoon as Scottish Labour leader..."
How many times are the sloppy journalists on the Herald and Sunday Herald going to repeat the erroneous phrase, "Scottish Labour leader"?
Her title is, "Labour's Scottish Parliament leader", which is directly from http://www.scottishl
abour.org.uk/, and there is no such thing as a Scottish Labour party as her title makes clear. She's leader of the MSP's in the Holyrood.
All this talk of how she's going to change everything about Labour in Scotland is just mince. She hasn't got the authority in Labour to do anything without Gordon Brown pulling levers behind the curtain but Scottish journalists seem happy to swallow her press releases without a murmur. Funny that.
"Alexander wants her party's MSPs, MPs and councillors to work together..."
Since she only has authority over the MSP's she's going to have her work cut out on that one. Especially with Foulkes in the MSP fold.
"...the Labour group, which is putting in place the staff and resources to expose the SNP government and its gimmick-driven, opportunist, wreckless spending commitments."
You've just go to laugh. These are the dimwits who left £1.5 Billion of the Scottish budget in London unspent while they closed hospital A&E departments.
"WENDY ALEXANDER'S honeymoon as Scottish Labour leader..."
How many times are the sloppy journalists on the Herald and Sunday Herald going to repeat the erroneous phrase, "Scottish Labour leader"?
Her title is, "Labour's Scottish Parliament leader", which is directly from http://www.scottishl
abour.org.uk/, and there is no such thing as a Scottish Labour party as her title makes clear. She's leader of the MSP's in the Holyrood.
All this talk of how she's going to change everything about Labour in Scotland is just mince. She hasn't got the authority in Labour to do anything without Gordon Brown pulling levers behind the curtain but Scottish journalists seem happy to swallow her press releases without a murmur. Funny that.
"Alexander wants her party's MSPs, MPs and councillors to work together..."
Since she only has authority over the MSP's she's going to have her work cut out on that one. Especially with Foulkes in the MSP fold.
"...the Labour group, which is putting in place the staff and resources to expose the SNP government and its gimmick-driven, opportunist, wreckless spending commitments."
You've just go to laugh. These are the dimwits who left £1.5 Billion of the Scottish budget in London unspent while they closed hospital A&E departments.
Posted by: rebelyell on 12:09am Sun 16 Sep 07
Lay off the Lord. He has decades of honourable service behind him and his views should carry due weight, Wendy should follow her instincts and make him his deputy - he would be a popular grassroots choice.
Lay off the Lord. He has decades of honourable service behind him and his views should carry due weight, Wendy should follow her instincts and make him his deputy - he would be a popular grassroots choice.
Posted by: Addison De Witt, Drinking cocktails at a cafe The Champs Elysees Paris on 12:14am Sun 16 Sep 07
YEAH
George Foulkes is about as popular as Rickets and Bird Flu, !!!
YEAH
George Foulkes is about as popular as Rickets and Bird Flu, !!!
Posted by: Im no really here on 12:32am Sun 16 Sep 07
rebelyell: "grassroots" Only politicians talk about "grassroots" when they think that they have the underlying support of most of the people. It's an arrogance for ANY party to talk about "grassroots" support.
Or is it you mean "the common people at the local level". Would that fit the image of Lord Haw Haw better??
rebelyell: "grassroots" Only politicians talk about "grassroots" when they think that they have the underlying support of most of the people. It's an arrogance for ANY party to talk about "grassroots" support.
Or is it you mean "the common people at the local level". Would that fit the image of Lord Haw Haw better??
Posted by: Paul Voltaire on 12:32am Sun 16 Sep 07
He He
Remember when Foulkes got lifted in London for banjoing a polisman?
He He
Remember when Foulkes got lifted in London for banjoing a polisman?
Posted by: randolff on 12:33am Sun 16 Sep 07
Lord Foulkes is a much misunderstood patriot
Lord Foulkes is a much misunderstood patriot
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 12:42am Sun 16 Sep 07
Labour have allowed the Lord F. to much slack knowing he would be a good wheez attacking the SNP, unfortunately it appears that their pet terrier has got out of control and biting the hand that feeds (it one liners).
Had to laugh at George Foulkes comments, anyone chack to see if he had just come out a copious dinner? seems to have had much in the way of single malts they way he is slagging all at Labour
Labour have allowed the Lord F. to much slack knowing he would be a good wheez attacking the SNP, unfortunately it appears that their pet terrier has got out of control and biting the hand that feeds (it one liners).
Had to laugh at George Foulkes comments, anyone chack to see if he had just come out a copious dinner? seems to have had much in the way of single malts they way he is slagging all at Labour
Posted by: rebecca on 12:43am Sun 16 Sep 07
The nats are running scared of comrade Foulkes. That is why they attack him on every opportunity. Despite his enoblement, he talks for the common man, as he spelt out elloquently at our Labour club last week.
The nats are running scared of comrade Foulkes. That is why they attack him on every opportunity. Despite his enoblement, he talks for the common man, as he spelt out elloquently at our Labour club last week.
Posted by: nouveaxscum on 12:45am Sun 16 Sep 07
Let's be carefull not to make any comments that could be construed by vivid imaginositry to be offensive.
Lord 'Gorge' is just '****' off at the Government's plans to prohibit(lol)alchoho
l promotions and will go on the lash at all and sundry.
Let's be carefull not to make any comments that could be construed by vivid imaginositry to be offensive.
Lord 'Gorge' is just '****' off at the Government's plans to prohibit(lol)alchoho
l promotions and will go on the lash at all and sundry.
Posted by: juan, Edimbra........... on 12:55am Sun 16 Sep 07
[bold]CORONATION OR NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES........[/bold]
CORONATION OR NIGHT OF THE LONG KNIVES........ Posted by: Im no really here on 12:56am Sun 16 Sep 07
Wow, it must be near an election. The Labour Party have woken up some supporters. Rebecca, it's not that people are targeting Lord Haw Haw, it just that if anyone breaks wind, he's in a newspaper article passing a comment on it.
Wow, it must be near an election. The Labour Party have woken up some supporters. Rebecca, it's not that people are targeting Lord Haw Haw, it just that if anyone breaks wind, he's in a newspaper article passing a comment on it.
Posted by: juan, edimbra.... on 12:57am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote]"at-arms-length" relationship with the party.[/quote]
[bold]
there it is the NEW BUZZ WORD! - also known as we can deny it![/bold]
"at-arms-length" relationship with the party.
there it is the NEW BUZZ WORD! - also known as we can deny it! Posted by: Renton Muir on 1:01am Sun 16 Sep 07
I have long admired Lord Foulkes. I think he speaks a lot of sense. There are many worse in the political den.
I have long admired Lord Foulkes. I think he speaks a lot of sense. There are many worse in the political den.
Posted by: ratzo on 1:06am Sun 16 Sep 07
The unnamed 'spokesman' says that the BritNats are [italic]putting in place the staff and resources to expose the SNP government[/italic] - BUT they have no voluntary support at the fabled 'grassroots'level, and they're famously up the swannee thanks to sleazy practices on donations.
The truth is they're broke. Wendy Alexander's 'arrival' on the scene has no support and no money, and it looks it.
The unnamed 'spokesman' says that the BritNats are
putting in place the staff and resources to expose the SNP government - BUT they have no voluntary support at the fabled 'grassroots'level, and they're famously up the swannee thanks to sleazy practices on donations.
The truth is they're broke. Wendy Alexander's 'arrival' on the scene has no support and no money, and it looks it.
Posted by: StevisH on 1:07am Sun 16 Sep 07
I agree with Renton - Lord Foulkes brightens up a dull political scene. Although not always right, more often than not he is, When Lord Foulkes speaks Scotland listens.
I agree with Renton - Lord Foulkes brightens up a dull political scene. Although not always right, more often than not he is, When Lord Foulkes speaks Scotland listens.
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 1:16am Sun 16 Sep 07
Rebecca & Renton Muir
The "nats" as you call them do not attack the "drunk as a lord" Foulkes. They mock him because he is the village idiot who does not deserve compassion.
He is a greedy self-serving buffoon. His wife was provost of Ayr - a manky toon that Labour once ruled but thei corrupt party dissolved in a maelstrom of in-fighting.
I wonder what Linda of Shettland has to say. Well Rebecca?
Rebecca & Renton Muir
The "nats" as you call them do not attack the "drunk as a lord" Foulkes. They mock him because he is the village idiot who does not deserve compassion.
He is a greedy self-serving buffoon. His wife was provost of Ayr - a manky toon that Labour once ruled but thei corrupt party dissolved in a maelstrom of in-fighting.
I wonder what Linda of Shettland has to say. Well Rebecca?
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 1:18am Sun 16 Sep 07
Oh I see Linda of Shettland has changed her name to StevisH.
Oh I see Linda of Shettland has changed her name to StevisH.
Posted by: MsJ, Glasgow on 2:35am Sun 16 Sep 07
"In another dig at McLeish, Foulkes said: "Loads of people at Westminster could never understand how Henry became a minister of state even. He used to brief against colleagues all the time He used to stab people in the back.""
Love it! Keep it coming George, you're a riot. Here you are complaining about stabbing people in the back while you personally are creating all sorts of problems for your own Party as it tries to rebuild here in Scotland. There you are saying you have total backing and there they are saying your views are your own. And Wendy's building unity? Dearie me!
"In another dig at McLeish, Foulkes said: "Loads of people at Westminster could never understand how Henry became a minister of state even. He used to brief against colleagues all the time He used to stab people in the back.""
Love it! Keep it coming George, you're a riot. Here you are complaining about stabbing people in the back while you personally are creating all sorts of problems for your own Party as it tries to rebuild here in Scotland. There you are saying you have total backing and there they are saying your views are your own. And Wendy's building unity? Dearie me!
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 3:58am Sun 16 Sep 07
Alexander’s first test as Foulkes brands her spin doctor an ‘idiot’
Takes one to know one.
McLeish was set up by the Lanarkshire Labour Unionist Mafia for behaving like a Prime Minister. They did not like McConnell neither, who was too Scottish for them as well.
Alexander’s first test as Foulkes brands her spin doctor an ‘idiot’
Takes one to know one.
McLeish was set up by the Lanarkshire Labour Unionist Mafia for behaving like a Prime Minister. They did not like McConnell neither, who was too Scottish for them as well.
Posted by: Addison De Witt, In a Gondola The Grand Canal Venice on 5:27am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]StevisH[/bold] wrote:
I agree with Renton - Lord Foulkes brightens up a dull political scene. Although not always right, more often than not he is, When Lord Foulkes speaks Scotland listens. [/quote]
No. When His Excellency, His Lordship George Foulkes Speaks
Scotland LAUGHS AT HIM.
How can anybody take this BUFFOON and WINDBAG seriously.
PS. He's working part time as COCO THE CLOWN at the Circus. !!!!
Addison De Witt
StevisH wrote:
I agree with Renton - Lord Foulkes brightens up a dull political scene. Although not always right, more often than not he is, When Lord Foulkes speaks Scotland listens.
No. When His Excellency, His Lordship George Foulkes Speaks
Scotland LAUGHS AT HIM.
How can anybody take this BUFFOON and WINDBAG seriously.
PS. He's working part time as COCO THE CLOWN at the Circus. !!!!
Addison De Witt
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 6:17am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]rebelyell[/bold] wrote:
Lay off the Lord. He has decades of honourable service behind him and his views should carry due weight, Wendy should follow her instincts and make him his deputy - he would be a popular grassroots choice.[/quote] REBELYELL
Do I not feel our collective plonker being tugged here ???
OOOhhhh.........Nice !!
rebelyell wrote:
Lay off the Lord. He has decades of honourable service behind him and his views should carry due weight, Wendy should follow her instincts and make him his deputy - he would be a popular grassroots choice.
REBELYELL
Do I not feel our collective plonker being tugged here ???
OOOhhhh.........Nice !!
Posted by: bullyweealba, Edinburgh on 7:54am Sun 16 Sep 07
Rebecca writes:-
“The nats are running scared of comrade Foulkes. That is why they attack him on every opportunity. Despite his enoblement, he talks for the common man, as he spelt out elloquently at our Labour club last week.”
This is the best piece of unconscious humour this morning.
Apparently Lord Zebedee spelt something out “elloquently” at a Labour club.
Of course “Rebecca” would be impressed by this, not being able to spell “eloquently “ her/himself.
Rebecca writes:-
“The nats are running scared of comrade Foulkes. That is why they attack him on every opportunity. Despite his enoblement, he talks for the common man, as he spelt out elloquently at our Labour club last week.”
This is the best piece of unconscious humour this morning.
Apparently Lord Zebedee spelt something out “elloquently” at a Labour club.
Of course “Rebecca” would be impressed by this, not being able to spell “eloquently “ her/himself.
Posted by: Jen on 8:26am Sun 16 Sep 07
Just listen to George Foulkes, you deaf people! Instead of going through your usual ‘buffoon’ and ‘drunkard’ comments, which are irrelevant. The man is the most experienced politician in Holyrood by far, and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Lironi IS a ****, and McLeish IS out of control. MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff, and if you’d have just read the whole article before commenting how greedy he is, you’d have known that as an Edinburgh MSP his suggestions would not benefit himself in any way. SNP rhetoric IS dangerous and may lead to racism, someone should have said it, and if you don’t see that then you are blind. Nats would try to trash anyone that opposed them, but luckily they never do it intelligently, it is always just drivel. Understand who this man is and what he’s done before you go on talking nonsense!
Just listen to George Foulkes, you deaf people! Instead of going through your usual ‘buffoon’ and ‘drunkard’ comments, which are irrelevant. The man is the most experienced politician in Holyrood by far, and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Lironi IS a ****, and McLeish IS out of control. MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff, and if you’d have just read the whole article before commenting how greedy he is, you’d have known that as an Edinburgh MSP his suggestions would not benefit himself in any way. SNP rhetoric IS dangerous and may lead to racism, someone should have said it, and if you don’t see that then you are blind. Nats would try to trash anyone that opposed them, but luckily they never do it intelligently, it is always just drivel. Understand who this man is and what he’s done before you go on talking nonsense!
Posted by: tb303 on 8:36am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Jen[/bold] wrote:
Just listen to George Foulkes, you deaf people! Instead of going through your usual ‘buffoon’ and ‘drunkard’ comments, which are irrelevant. The man is the most experienced politician in Holyrood by far, and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Lironi IS a ****, and McLeish IS out of control. MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff, and if you’d have just read the whole article before commenting how greedy he is, you’d have known that as an Edinburgh MSP his suggestions would not benefit himself in any way. SNP rhetoric IS dangerous and may lead to racism, someone should have said it, and if you don’t see that then you are blind. Nats would try to trash anyone that opposed them, but luckily they never do it intelligently, it is always just drivel. Understand who this man is and what he’s done before you go on talking nonsense![/quote] MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff.
Puh-leese.
Jen wrote:
Just listen to George Foulkes, you deaf people! Instead of going through your usual ‘buffoon’ and ‘drunkard’ comments, which are irrelevant. The man is the most experienced politician in Holyrood by far, and he knows exactly what he is talking about. Lironi IS a ****, and McLeish IS out of control. MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff, and if you’d have just read the whole article before commenting how greedy he is, you’d have known that as an Edinburgh MSP his suggestions would not benefit himself in any way. SNP rhetoric IS dangerous and may lead to racism, someone should have said it, and if you don’t see that then you are blind. Nats would try to trash anyone that opposed them, but luckily they never do it intelligently, it is always just drivel. Understand who this man is and what he’s done before you go on talking nonsense!
MSPs DO work hard and DO need more funding for staff.
Puh-leese.
Posted by: Realpatriot on 8:53am Sun 16 Sep 07
Well said Jen. Just listen to these nats. Lord Fou;kes is a "drunk" because of one trivial incident over a decade ago. As if any of their MSPs or MPs have never been drunk or done anything indiscrete.
He is also a "bufoon". Why? Because he speaks the truth. And we are now told his wife has personally turned Ayr into a "manky toon". Is this the best you nats can do? Lord Foules has great intellect, experience and not a little charm. Were he to back independence, he'd be in Alex Salmond's cabinet within a week. But he won't, so he is "bufoon", "drunk", "windbag", "clown", has a dodgy wife etc....this really is pathetic.
He is lifelong supporter of a Scottish parliament, and independent thinker, a democratic socialist, and a patriot. That is why the nats faer him.
Well said Jen. Just listen to these nats. Lord Fou;kes is a "drunk" because of one trivial incident over a decade ago. As if any of their MSPs or MPs have never been drunk or done anything indiscrete.
He is also a "bufoon". Why? Because he speaks the truth. And we are now told his wife has personally turned Ayr into a "manky toon". Is this the best you nats can do? Lord Foules has great intellect, experience and not a little charm. Were he to back independence, he'd be in Alex Salmond's cabinet within a week. But he won't, so he is "bufoon", "drunk", "windbag", "clown", has a dodgy wife etc....this really is pathetic.
He is lifelong supporter of a Scottish parliament, and independent thinker, a democratic socialist, and a patriot. That is why the nats faer him.
Posted by: Anders Nogiets, attending a whisky party as befits an MP concerned with the blending industry on 9:02am Sun 16 Sep 07
#Realpatriot on 8:53am
Foulkes strongly supported the war in Iraq, and for months and months still supported the position that WMD might yet be found. An apologist for an illegal war.
#Realpatriot on 8:53am
Foulkes strongly supported the war in Iraq, and for months and months still supported the position that WMD might yet be found. An apologist for an illegal war.
Posted by: muirkirk, muirkirk on 9:14am Sun 16 Sep 07
foulkes is a drunk
his son is a bigot
he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat.
his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election
he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party
a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life.
selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?
foulkes is a drunk
his son is a bigot
he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat.
his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election
he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party
a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life.
selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?
Posted by: Garry Otton, Religion Is The Problem on 9:18am Sun 16 Sep 07
So all the lads agree with Lord Faulkes? Oor Wendy has had plenty of experience dealing with liver-spotted, sexist old buffers.
So all the lads agree with Lord Faulkes? Oor Wendy has had plenty of experience dealing with liver-spotted, sexist old buffers.
Posted by: Carel, Isle of Skye on 9:25am Sun 16 Sep 07
A good opportunity for Wendy's lot to show authority within their party - Foulkes does not tend to get liked, so he'd be an easy target.
But, on the issue of expences, MPs and MSPs have tiny expences compared to elected representaives in other advanced states. Try the US - our MPs get a fraction of what congressmen get.
This is popular with those running a party, as it reduces the independence of MPs/MSPs. These are not in a position to employ researchers - remember the scandals when it emerged that MPs including Charles Kennedy were using employees of lobbying firms as researchers? I don't want our MSPs to be too dependent on their party machines for discovering facts and figures (or on lobbying firms!!).
Expences budgets can be devided up with the parts ring-fenced. They could be in part for travel, part for researchers wages, part for office staff wages, part for a constituency office, etc.
A good opportunity for Wendy's lot to show authority within their party - Foulkes does not tend to get liked, so he'd be an easy target.
But, on the issue of expences, MPs and MSPs have tiny expences compared to elected representaives in other advanced states. Try the US - our MPs get a fraction of what congressmen get.
This is popular with those running a party, as it reduces the independence of MPs/MSPs. These are not in a position to employ researchers - remember the scandals when it emerged that MPs including Charles Kennedy were using employees of lobbying firms as researchers? I don't want our MSPs to be too dependent on their party machines for discovering facts and figures (or on lobbying firms!!).
Expences budgets can be devided up with the parts ring-fenced. They could be in part for travel, part for researchers wages, part for office staff wages, part for a constituency office, etc.
Posted by: Reakpatriot on 9:28am Sun 16 Sep 07
Anders - ok on the war he was wrong in publically backing the war, but so were many others. But Lord Foulkes was hardly a key decision masker in this regard - he was not even an MP at the time. I suspect if he had been within the inner circles of government, like robin cook, he would have oppossed the military option.
But on Scotland's position withing the UK , and much else , he speaks sense. I'd you look in detail at what he says, rather than media spin, he is openminded on most isues. That is why his is so despised by Livorni and his spinners, who are of cousre trying to discredit him in this article, ably assisted by hapless nats with no understanding of the ongoing power struggle within the labour's party.
Enjoy power as long as it lasts, but the real battle for scotland's soul is being played out within labour's ranks, with lord Foulkes more of a strategic ally than you might imagine. I believe privately he wants a referendum on independence for example, resisted fiercely by the labour establishment with Livorni as their bagman.
Watch this space - but by undermining lord Foulkes you undermine your own cause.
Anders - ok on the war he was wrong in publically backing the war, but so were many others. But Lord Foulkes was hardly a key decision masker in this regard - he was not even an MP at the time. I suspect if he had been within the inner circles of government, like robin cook, he would have oppossed the military option.
But on Scotland's position withing the UK , and much else , he speaks sense. I'd you look in detail at what he says, rather than media spin, he is openminded on most isues. That is why his is so despised by Livorni and his spinners, who are of cousre trying to discredit him in this article, ably assisted by hapless nats with no understanding of the ongoing power struggle within the labour's party.
Enjoy power as long as it lasts, but the real battle for scotland's soul is being played out within labour's ranks, with lord Foulkes more of a strategic ally than you might imagine. I believe privately he wants a referendum on independence for example, resisted fiercely by the labour establishment with Livorni as their bagman.
Watch this space - but by undermining lord Foulkes you undermine your own cause.
Posted by: alex on 10:09am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]muirkirk[/bold] wrote:
foulkes is a drunk his son is a bigot he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat. his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life. selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?[/quote] So many un-truths in one post – lol!
Foulkes still lives in the constituency he represented;
Check out his bio – he had other, or as you put it “real” jobs before becoming an MP;
He was selected in 1979, not 1983;
Sounds like you were one of those he was “parachuted” ahead of. Get over it, it’s been a few decades.
The SNP must be really scared of Foulkes – their army of disciples, the ignorant yet so convinced mob, attack his every move.
Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics: his heydays over, no political aspirations and no search for re-election, he is sheer honesty, clean of petty politics and says things as they are, based on life-long experience. Just the change that was needed in Labour.
muirkirk wrote:
foulkes is a drunk his son is a bigot he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat. his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life. selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?
So many un-truths in one post – lol!
Foulkes still lives in the constituency he represented;
Check out his bio – he had other, or as you put it “real” jobs before becoming an MP;
He was selected in 1979, not 1983;
Sounds like you were one of those he was “parachuted” ahead of. Get over it, it’s been a few decades.
The SNP must be really scared of Foulkes – their army of disciples, the ignorant yet so convinced mob, attack his every move.
Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics: his heydays over, no political aspirations and no search for re-election, he is sheer honesty, clean of petty politics and says things as they are, based on life-long experience. Just the change that was needed in Labour.
Posted by: Fredo on 10:17am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote]Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics[/quote]
Here, here!
Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics
Here, here!
Posted by: livilad, Livingston on 10:27am Sun 16 Sep 07
[italic]Who is on the Lord's side,
Who will fight the foe?
Salmond, Hyslop, Sturgeon,
What do they all know?
Lord Foulkes has the answers,
he'll defend the line
Who is on the Lord's side?
only Jim Devine[/italic]
Who is on the Lord's side,
Who will fight the foe?
Salmond, Hyslop, Sturgeon,
What do they all know?
Lord Foulkes has the answers,
he'll defend the line
Who is on the Lord's side?
only Jim Devine Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 10:30am Sun 16 Sep 07
I'm always attracted to contribtutions that bear soubriquets like 'Realpatriot.'
99.9% of the time, these people are anything but! What they really mean is 'RealEnglishpatriot!
' Why are they so afraid to say it!
Courage, mon brave!
I'm always attracted to contribtutions that bear soubriquets like 'Realpatriot.'
99.9% of the time, these people are anything but! What they really mean is 'RealEnglishpatriot!
' Why are they so afraid to say it!
Courage, mon brave!
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 10:33am Sun 16 Sep 07
Realpatriot @ 8:53am
You fail to understand that the mocking comments piled on Foulkes is because [bold]he invites them[/bold] with ...
1. His craven servility to Blair/Bush on Iraq and Afghanistan
2. His ascerbic comments on the SNP
3. His attempts to stir up racism between two natural allies (Scotland & England)
4. His desperate willingness to be Westminster's snitch at Holyrood
5. His treachery over the pylons to Northern Ireland affair (he opposed them until he got into government)- ask the folk of the south-west about him
6. His silence on torture flights via Prestwick airport
7. His greed for more and more wages and expenses - he lives (occasionally) in Ayrshire so will have a good excuse to pile up the mileage allowances
As for my mention of Lady Foulkes, it was not a personal attack on her but an attack on the system of which she has been an active part.
What is undeniable is that when she was Provost in Ayr the place deteriorated (not all her fault by a long chalk) and the Labour Council created their own massive financial black hole leading to the sudden resignation of their Group Leader, Andy Hill.
Mrs Foulkes was a Councillor for Girvan - a town struggling to cope with a crippling dependency culture. A disproportionate amount of Council spending went to her ward.
The fact is Labour is a family business, not a political movement. The career path is activist - community councillor - town councillor - Group Leader or Provost - Holyrood - Westminster - put out to grass as an MEP - shoe horned into Holyrood to act as a spoiler for Westminster - a seat in the House of Lords.
Realpatriot @ 8:53am
You fail to understand that the mocking comments piled on Foulkes is because
he invites them with ...
1. His craven servility to Blair/Bush on Iraq and Afghanistan
2. His ascerbic comments on the SNP
3. His attempts to stir up racism between two natural allies (Scotland & England)
4. His desperate willingness to be Westminster's snitch at Holyrood
5. His treachery over the pylons to Northern Ireland affair (he opposed them until he got into government)- ask the folk of the south-west about him
6. His silence on torture flights via Prestwick airport
7. His greed for more and more wages and expenses - he lives (occasionally) in Ayrshire so will have a good excuse to pile up the mileage allowances
As for my mention of Lady Foulkes, it was not a personal attack on her but an attack on the system of which she has been an active part.
What is undeniable is that when she was Provost in Ayr the place deteriorated (not all her fault by a long chalk) and the Labour Council created their own massive financial black hole leading to the sudden resignation of their Group Leader, Andy Hill.
Mrs Foulkes was a Councillor for Girvan - a town struggling to cope with a crippling dependency culture. A disproportionate amount of Council spending went to her ward.
The fact is Labour is a family business, not a political movement. The career path is activist - community councillor - town councillor - Group Leader or Provost - Holyrood - Westminster - put out to grass as an MEP - shoe horned into Holyrood to act as a spoiler for Westminster - a seat in the House of Lords.
Posted by: Mr T, The A Team van on 10:38am Sun 16 Sep 07
Rebecca -Perhaps his Lordship speaks for the common man when he says "I'm pi**ed"....
Rebecca -Perhaps his Lordship speaks for the common man when he says "I'm pi**ed"....
Posted by: Realpatriot on 10:51am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote]Albert, allow me to respond [oint by point to your critque of Lord Fou1kes:
1 His craven servility to Blair/Bush on Iraq and Afghanistan - [italic]he is privately working for peace[/italic]
2. His ascerbic comments on the SNP - [italic]his effective attacks on his political opponents[/italic]
3. His attempts to stir up racism between two natural allies (Scotland & England) - [italic]his brave stance against the neo-racism of modern day nationalism[/italic]
4. His desperate willingness to be Westminster's snitch at Holyrood - [italic]his promotion of devolution and sensible advocacy of the two parliaments working together to improve scotland[/italic]
5. His treachery over the pylons to Northern Ireland affair (he opposed them until he got into government)- ask the folk of the south-west about him - [italic]his openminded approach to governance and economic opportunities[/italic]
6. His silence on torture flights via Prestwick airport - [italic]what "torture" - were you on these flights, all transporting suspected terrorists?[/italic]
7. His greed for more and more wages and expenses - he lives (occasionally) in Ayrshire so will have a good excuse to pile up the mileage allowances. [italic]His bravery and factual accuaracy in pointing out Holyrood expenses are less generous than Westminsters[/italic] [/quote]
As for Lady Foulkes, you seem to be complaining she is an effective campaigner for the area she represents, tranfering resources from affluent Ayr to less prosperous Girvan.
Albert, allow me to respond [oint by point to your critque of Lord Fou1kes:
1 His craven servility to Blair/Bush on Iraq and Afghanistan - he is privately working for peace
2. His ascerbic comments on the SNP - his effective attacks on his political opponents
3. His attempts to stir up racism between two natural allies (Scotland & England) - his brave stance against the neo-racism of modern day nationalism
4. His desperate willingness to be Westminster's snitch at Holyrood - his promotion of devolution and sensible advocacy of the two parliaments working together to improve scotland
5. His treachery over the pylons to Northern Ireland affair (he opposed them until he got into government)- ask the folk of the south-west about him - his openminded approach to governance and economic opportunities
6. His silence on torture flights via Prestwick airport - what "torture" - were you on these flights, all transporting suspected terrorists?
7. His greed for more and more wages and expenses - he lives (occasionally) in Ayrshire so will have a good excuse to pile up the mileage allowances. His bravery and factual accuaracy in pointing out Holyrood expenses are less generous than Westminsters
As for Lady Foulkes, you seem to be complaining she is an effective campaigner for the area she represents, tranfering resources from affluent Ayr to less prosperous Girvan.
Posted by: Gianni on 11:04am Sun 16 Sep 07
It's always funny when Unionists try to portray themselves as patriots such as RealPatriot. This strange tendency to play on the politics of inverse logic also coincides with their insistence that the SNP are (whisper it) racist when in fact it is the Unionists and the the supporters of independence who constantly talk about race or ethnicity.
The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance.
It's always funny when Unionists try to portray themselves as patriots such as RealPatriot. This strange tendency to play on the politics of inverse logic also coincides with their insistence that the SNP are (whisper it) racist when in fact it is the Unionists and the the supporters of independence who constantly talk about race or ethnicity.
The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance.
Posted by: Gianni on 11:06am Sun 16 Sep 07
The above should read:
It's always funny when Unionists try to portray themselves as patriots such as RealPatriot. This strange tendency to play on the politics of inverse logic also coincides with their insistence that the SNP are (whisper it) racist when in fact it is the Unionists and not the supporters of independence who constantly talk about race or ethnicity.
The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance.
The above should read:
It's always funny when Unionists try to portray themselves as patriots such as RealPatriot. This strange tendency to play on the politics of inverse logic also coincides with their insistence that the SNP are (whisper it) racist when in fact it is the Unionists and not the supporters of independence who constantly talk about race or ethnicity.
The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance.
Posted by: Realpatriot on 11:11am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote]Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance[/quote]
Who here are the bigots?
Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots.
Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance
Who here are the bigots?
Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots.
Posted by: BM, Edinburgh on 11:17am Sun 16 Sep 07
Is there a day when George isn't in the paper? I thought there was one last week, but it turns out he had a written a letter to the eitor. Hope springs eternal...
Is there a day when George isn't in the paper? I thought there was one last week, but it turns out he had a written a letter to the eitor. Hope springs eternal...
Posted by: Oscarmacapfel on 11:19am Sun 16 Sep 07
Muirkirk. Excellent to hear from someone in Muirkirk.
How is Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock's best pal councillor Jimmy Kelly doing with his private allocation of local housing stock to his friends and family?
Is he still protecting the Lowe's and their drug business?
Foulkes is a joke. Although, I'd rather have him in the parliament than out on the streets harassing honest citizens.
Muirkirk. Excellent to hear from someone in Muirkirk.
How is Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock's best pal councillor Jimmy Kelly doing with his private allocation of local housing stock to his friends and family?
Is he still protecting the Lowe's and their drug business?
Foulkes is a joke. Although, I'd rather have him in the parliament than out on the streets harassing honest citizens.
Posted by: Gianni on 11:35am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Realpatriot[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance[/quote] Who here are the bigots? Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots. [/quote] Well then, finally, offer a coherent, cogent, intelligent argument for the Union instead of arguing against the Scottish people by saying the economy is a basket-case, or Scotland is parochial in mind, or the other vaqriety politics of fear your leaders and Unionists employ to try to cow the Scottish people.
Why should Scotland be determined to stay in the Union?
Realpatriot wrote:
Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance
Who here are the bigots? Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots.
Well then, finally, offer a coherent, cogent, intelligent argument for the Union instead of arguing against the Scottish people by saying the economy is a basket-case, or Scotland is parochial in mind, or the other vaqriety politics of fear your leaders and Unionists employ to try to cow the Scottish people.
Why should Scotland be determined to stay in the Union?
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 11:42am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Realpatriot[/bold] wrote:
Well said Jen. Just listen to these nats. Lord Fou;kes is a "drunk" because of one trivial incident over a decade ago. As if any of their MSPs or MPs have never been drunk or done anything indiscrete. He is also a "bufoon". Why? Because he speaks the truth. And we are now told his wife has personally turned Ayr into a "manky toon". Is this the best you nats can do? Lord Foules has great intellect, experience and not a little charm. Were he to back independence, he'd be in Alex Salmond's cabinet within a week. But he won't, so he is "bufoon", "drunk", "windbag", "clown", has a dodgy wife etc....this really is pathetic. He is lifelong supporter of a Scottish parliament, and independent thinker, a democratic socialist, and a patriot. That is why the nats faer him. [/quote] I have to laugh
I know the noble lord from a time before he was enobled. To be honest he is a buffoon, always was and always will be. Im a life long labour supporter and was involved in a couple of his (thankfully failed) parliamentary campaigns. He was never a life long supporter of a Scottish Parliament, which is why he tried his damnest to get into Westminster.
He was always self seeking publicist and fond of the malt.
I dont condone attacks on his wife, who has nothing to do with his public political life and persona. But George is fair game
Realpatriot wrote:
Well said Jen. Just listen to these nats. Lord Fou;kes is a "drunk" because of one trivial incident over a decade ago. As if any of their MSPs or MPs have never been drunk or done anything indiscrete. He is also a "bufoon". Why? Because he speaks the truth. And we are now told his wife has personally turned Ayr into a "manky toon". Is this the best you nats can do? Lord Foules has great intellect, experience and not a little charm. Were he to back independence, he'd be in Alex Salmond's cabinet within a week. But he won't, so he is "bufoon", "drunk", "windbag", "clown", has a dodgy wife etc....this really is pathetic. He is lifelong supporter of a Scottish parliament, and independent thinker, a democratic socialist, and a patriot. That is why the nats faer him.
I have to laugh
I know the noble lord from a time before he was enobled. To be honest he is a buffoon, always was and always will be. Im a life long labour supporter and was involved in a couple of his (thankfully failed) parliamentary campaigns. He was never a life long supporter of a Scottish Parliament, which is why he tried his damnest to get into Westminster.
He was always self seeking publicist and fond of the malt.
I dont condone attacks on his wife, who has nothing to do with his public political life and persona. But George is fair game
Posted by: sixthreenine, east ayrshire on 11:44am Sun 16 Sep 07
George Foulkes is entitled to his opinion, same as everyone else. Regarding his comments on Henry McLeish, does anyone remember the ex-First Minister's appearance on Question Time? He had to be bailed out by Alex Salmond and was a total embarrassment. Would our SNP posters on here be as quick to defend Henry if he hadn't shown signs of crossing to the Saltire side?
Back to the Lord, though - it ill behooves a failed Junior Minister for Junkets to publicly criticise colleagues and party workers. Any such comments should be dealt with in-house, have they remembered nothing from the Militant Tendency days?
I've said it before, Foulkes has had a grand life on the back of the people of one of the most neglected areas of the UK, and now would be a fine time for him to find a new humility and maybe silence to go with it.
George Foulkes is entitled to his opinion, same as everyone else. Regarding his comments on Henry McLeish, does anyone remember the ex-First Minister's appearance on Question Time? He had to be bailed out by Alex Salmond and was a total embarrassment. Would our SNP posters on here be as quick to defend Henry if he hadn't shown signs of crossing to the Saltire side?
Back to the Lord, though - it ill behooves a failed Junior Minister for Junkets to publicly criticise colleagues and party workers. Any such comments should be dealt with in-house, have they remembered nothing from the Militant Tendency days?
I've said it before, Foulkes has had a grand life on the back of the people of one of the most neglected areas of the UK, and now would be a fine time for him to find a new humility and maybe silence to go with it.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 11:48am Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]alex[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]muirkirk[/bold] wrote: foulkes is a drunk his son is a bigot he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat. his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life. selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?[/quote] So many un-truths in one post – lol! Foulkes still lives in the constituency he represented; Check out his bio – he had other, or as you put it “real” jobs before becoming an MP; He was selected in 1979, not 1983; Sounds like you were one of those he was “parachuted” ahead of. Get over it, it’s been a few decades. The SNP must be really scared of Foulkes – their army of disciples, the ignorant yet so convinced mob, attack his every move. Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics: his heydays over, no political aspirations and no search for re-election, he is sheer honesty, clean of petty politics and says things as they are, based on life-long experience. Just the change that was needed in Labour. [/quote] Actually George was parachuted into the Ayr constituency as he failed to get Edinburgh Pentlands twice for Labour, and he was also parachuted into that constinuency as well!
alex wrote:
muirkirk wrote: foulkes is a drunk his son is a bigot he represented my constituency: never lived there, had no local connection, and has never been back since giving up his seat. his only response to massive de-industrialisation was an ever increasing girth and a larger car every election he represents everything that is wrong with the labour party a retired MP, a Lord and an MSP: and never had a real job in his life. selected by the labor party in 1983 ahead of locals and parachuted into a mining community he had no interest in or connection to and after more than 20 years of incompetence selected again to our parliament in 2007: what hope democarcy under the labour party?
So many un-truths in one post – lol! Foulkes still lives in the constituency he represented; Check out his bio – he had other, or as you put it “real” jobs before becoming an MP; He was selected in 1979, not 1983; Sounds like you were one of those he was “parachuted” ahead of. Get over it, it’s been a few decades. The SNP must be really scared of Foulkes – their army of disciples, the ignorant yet so convinced mob, attack his every move. Foulkes is priceless in Scottish politics: his heydays over, no political aspirations and no search for re-election, he is sheer honesty, clean of petty politics and says things as they are, based on life-long experience. Just the change that was needed in Labour.
Actually George was parachuted into the Ayr constituency as he failed to get Edinburgh Pentlands twice for Labour, and he was also parachuted into that constinuency as well!
Posted by: bullyweealba, Edinburgh on 12:07pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Reakpatriot writes:-
“But Lord Foulkes was hardly a key decision masker in this regard - he was not even an MP at the time. I suspect if he had been within the inner circles of government, like robin cook, he would have oppossed the military option.”
This would appear to be a rather inept attempt at rewriting history by someone who doesn’t appear to have a clue what he/she is talking about.
This quote is from the BBC News 24 web-site, and is dated 10 March,2003.
“But George Foulkes, MP for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, has been insisting that there is a “silent majority” around the country that are (sic) comfortable with how the government’s handling of the situation is going”
“I think there’s a silent majority outside, and I spoke to them in my constituency over the weekend, who think the media are constantly criticising the government, undermining the position of the government”
“Some of the protests that are taking place do not represent the views of the silent majority.”
10 days later
20 March - American missiles hit targets in Baghdad, marking the start of a US-led campaign to topple Saddam Hussein. In the following days US and British ground troops enter Iraq from the south.
It there is obvious to even the most blinkered of observers, that Foulkes was indeed a MP at the beginning of the Iraq war, and that he was fully supportive of the government position.
If you cannot get even the basics correct, why should anyone lend any credence to anything else you have to say?
Reakpatriot writes:-
“But Lord Foulkes was hardly a key decision masker in this regard - he was not even an MP at the time. I suspect if he had been within the inner circles of government, like robin cook, he would have oppossed the military option.”
This would appear to be a rather inept attempt at rewriting history by someone who doesn’t appear to have a clue what he/she is talking about.
This quote is from the BBC News 24 web-site, and is dated 10 March,2003.
“But George Foulkes, MP for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley, has been insisting that there is a “silent majority” around the country that are (sic) comfortable with how the government’s handling of the situation is going”
“I think there’s a silent majority outside, and I spoke to them in my constituency over the weekend, who think the media are constantly criticising the government, undermining the position of the government”
“Some of the protests that are taking place do not represent the views of the silent majority.”
10 days later
20 March - American missiles hit targets in Baghdad, marking the start of a US-led campaign to topple Saddam Hussein. In the following days US and British ground troops enter Iraq from the south.
It there is obvious to even the most blinkered of observers, that Foulkes was indeed a MP at the beginning of the Iraq war, and that he was fully supportive of the government position.
If you cannot get even the basics correct, why should anyone lend any credence to anything else you have to say?
Posted by: alexF, Ayr on 12:08pm Sun 16 Sep 07
As a lifeling nationalist can I say I find the level of personal abuse aimed at Lord Foulkes unbecoming? He is wrong on the Union but no bafoon. And his wife was an excellent councillor well repected by all.
To quote an earliet post, "lay off the Lord" ( and his good lady)
As a lifeling nationalist can I say I find the level of personal abuse aimed at Lord Foulkes unbecoming? He is wrong on the Union but no bafoon. And his wife was an excellent councillor well repected by all.
To quote an earliet post, "lay off the Lord" ( and his good lady)
Posted by: Realpatriot on 12:16pm Sun 16 Sep 07
bullyweealba - I stand corrected on his status at the time of the war's, but my p[oint essentially was that George Foulkes was not involed in the decision making. Had he been a cabinet member I am sure there would have been a radically different outcome.
Add I know for a fact that he is now working for peace as he detailed at our Labour club last weekend.
bullyweealba - I stand corrected on his status at the time of the war's, but my p[oint essentially was that George Foulkes was not involed in the decision making. Had he been a cabinet member I am sure there would have been a radically different outcome.
Add I know for a fact that he is now working for peace as he detailed at our Labour club last weekend.
Posted by: Rebecca on 12:18pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Well said Realpatriot. Lord Foulkes is indeeed working for peace. It would be a sad day were he to be silenced
Well said Realpatriot. Lord Foulkes is indeeed working for peace. It would be a sad day were he to be silenced
Posted by: bullyweealba, Edinburgh on 12:20pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Realpatriot writes:-
“Lord Foulkes has great intellect,”
This must be true, read my previous post where Foulkes speaks to “silent” people, and claims to know what they think.
Truly, either an unrecognised genius, or perhaps more likely, a complete and utter diddy.
Realpatriot writes:-
“Lord Foulkes has great intellect,”
This must be true, read my previous post where Foulkes speaks to “silent” people, and claims to know what they think.
Truly, either an unrecognised genius, or perhaps more likely, a complete and utter diddy.
Posted by: Curley Bill, The SouthWest on 12:23pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Oscarmacapfel - Such allegations about the esteemed Councillor Slevers Kelly are really aactionable, even if they are accurate.
Poor old Muirkirk, at one time a leading industrial town with its coalmines and Ironworks, and the first place in Britain to have gas-powered street lights.
Now, despite the efforts of a dedicated community council, it most often appears in the papers when the drug war between the Lowes and the Shaws rears its ugly head - shootings, beatings, firebombings, innocent witnesses run out of the community.
The previous Labour Council, of which Slevers was a leading light, abandoned Muirkirk and its people to the tender mercy of criminality. There is no continual police presence, and it is alleged local businesses are being used as fronts to launder drug money.
And no-one in authority gives a ****. By the way, remember who the peoples' political representatives were and are - George Foulkes MP, Sandra Osborne MP and Cathy Jamieson MSP. This unholy trio are all Labour and are only good for opening Spar shops and the like.
Oscarmacapfel - Such allegations about the esteemed Councillor Slevers Kelly are really aactionable, even if they are accurate.
Poor old Muirkirk, at one time a leading industrial town with its coalmines and Ironworks, and the first place in Britain to have gas-powered street lights.
Now, despite the efforts of a dedicated community council, it most often appears in the papers when the drug war between the Lowes and the Shaws rears its ugly head - shootings, beatings, firebombings, innocent witnesses run out of the community.
The previous Labour Council, of which Slevers was a leading light, abandoned Muirkirk and its people to the tender mercy of criminality. There is no continual police presence, and it is alleged local businesses are being used as fronts to launder drug money.
And no-one in authority gives a ****. By the way, remember who the peoples' political representatives were and are - George Foulkes MP, Sandra Osborne MP and Cathy Jamieson MSP. This unholy trio are all Labour and are only good for opening Spar shops and the like.
Posted by: Rebecca on 12:30pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Bullyweealba, have you ever met Lord Foulkes? I did last week when he visited our Labour club and he was charming , engaging and happy to take criticism head on. Like many of my fellow students we found him uplifting and many joined the party after his thrilling session. And most of us have our reservations about Iraq.
Think in future before you besmirch the personal standing of such a fine man and his family please
Bullyweealba, have you ever met Lord Foulkes? I did last week when he visited our Labour club and he was charming , engaging and happy to take criticism head on. Like many of my fellow students we found him uplifting and many joined the party after his thrilling session. And most of us have our reservations about Iraq.
Think in future before you besmirch the personal standing of such a fine man and his family please
Posted by: greig, glasgow on 12:50pm Sun 16 Sep 07
[bold]bold[/bold] foulkes the fool,why not do your party a favour and get your tongue removed.you are an old has been.please shut up and let the modern scotland flourish.
foulkes the fool,why not do your party a favour and get your tongue removed.you are an old has been.please shut up and let the modern scotland flourish.
Posted by: bullyweealba on 12:51pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Rebecca
I have indeed met Foulkes.
Scotland is a small town, and both Edinburgh and Glasgow are merely villages on the landscape.
Unlike you, I was less than impressed by his eloquence, charm, standing, (or even falling over), in the community.
Despite the alleged benefits of a private education , poor George can hardly string one coherent sentence together.
If we wishes to court personal publicity by putting his head above the parapet, he must expect to be shot at by those he chooses to attack.
I wish you all the best in your studies, and hope that soon you will learn some understanding of Scotland’s recent social and political history.
Incidentally, I have never once mentioned any of the Foulkes family in any of my posts.
Rebecca
I have indeed met Foulkes.
Scotland is a small town, and both Edinburgh and Glasgow are merely villages on the landscape.
Unlike you, I was less than impressed by his eloquence, charm, standing, (or even falling over), in the community.
Despite the alleged benefits of a private education , poor George can hardly string one coherent sentence together.
If we wishes to court personal publicity by putting his head above the parapet, he must expect to be shot at by those he chooses to attack.
I wish you all the best in your studies, and hope that soon you will learn some understanding of Scotland’s recent social and political history.
Incidentally, I have never once mentioned any of the Foulkes family in any of my posts.
Posted by: santa, greenland on 12:57pm Sun 16 Sep 07
George Foulkes has to be disciplined for his remarks. He can't be allowed to get away with this. I say this as a Labour supporter.
George Foulkes has to be disciplined for his remarks. He can't be allowed to get away with this. I say this as a Labour supporter.
Posted by: Oscarmacapfel on 1:03pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Curley Bill pleasure to meet you.
Thing is, Cumnock police, Jamieson, Messrs Kelly and Curry even old Baron Hee Haw maintains that this is some sort of innocent Old West feud between the Lowe's and the Shaw's.
I'm not taking sides, yet, look at the incidents and you find a complete lack of Lowe victims.
You'll be aware of the recent stabbings, gun threat and arson attack. None caried out by the Shaws, instead in each case a Shaw victim.
The Shaw's haven't been a force since Kevin was kneecapped by Iain and Wull Lowe, fifteen years ago.
Rampant criminality overseen by a complicit Police Force. You'll be aware that Detective Constable Hugh McGoogan is still suspended on full pay after he was accused of intimidating a former girlfriend whom he forced to wear a stolen WPC uniform whilst they did the business?
Yet McGoogan is known to all and sundry as the Lowe's bagman and provider of alibis.
http://www.ergogenic
s.org/393.html
What's going on in Muirkirk is representative of the rest of the country, where Labour place men benefit from Brown envelopes and cushy contracts to friends and families, all for the price of turning a blind eye to the gangsters that control the local drug trade and wash their money clean in bars, tanning salons, taxi's and security companies.
Curley Bill pleasure to meet you.
Thing is, Cumnock police, Jamieson, Messrs Kelly and Curry even old Baron Hee Haw maintains that this is some sort of innocent Old West feud between the Lowe's and the Shaw's.
I'm not taking sides, yet, look at the incidents and you find a complete lack of Lowe victims.
You'll be aware of the recent stabbings, gun threat and arson attack. None caried out by the Shaws, instead in each case a Shaw victim.
The Shaw's haven't been a force since Kevin was kneecapped by Iain and Wull Lowe, fifteen years ago.
Rampant criminality overseen by a complicit Police Force. You'll be aware that Detective Constable Hugh McGoogan is still suspended on full pay after he was accused of intimidating a former girlfriend whom he forced to wear a stolen WPC uniform whilst they did the business?
Yet McGoogan is known to all and sundry as the Lowe's bagman and provider of alibis.
http://www.ergogenic
s.org/393.html
What's going on in Muirkirk is representative of the rest of the country, where Labour place men benefit from Brown envelopes and cushy contracts to friends and families, all for the price of turning a blind eye to the gangsters that control the local drug trade and wash their money clean in bars, tanning salons, taxi's and security companies.
Posted by: Anders Nogiets, Zuid-Holland on 1:08pm Sun 16 Sep 07
In response to my post, Realpatriot 9:28am said
"he was wrong in publically backing the war"
Why was he wrong? He supported the war - this is what was wrong, not the fact that he publicly backed it. Well I was out on the streets protesting in Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with tens of thousands, and supported in our marches by many more, and we were not listened to by New Labour war mongers. Foulkes and Reid and other "socialists" all share the blame for the current situation in Iraq.
Copy this address into your browser:
http://www.ac.wwu.ed
u/~stephan/USfatalit
ies.html
In response to my post, Realpatriot 9:28am said
"he was wrong in publically backing the war"
Why was he wrong? He supported the war - this is what was wrong, not the fact that he publicly backed it. Well I was out on the streets protesting in Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with tens of thousands, and supported in our marches by many more, and we were not listened to by New Labour war mongers. Foulkes and Reid and other "socialists" all share the blame for the current situation in Iraq.
Copy this address into your browser:
http://www.ac.wwu.ed
u/~stephan/USfatalit
ies.html
Posted by: Al B Back, Portsmouth on 1:28pm Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote]Why was he wrong? He supported the war - this is what was wrong, not the fact that he publicly backed it. Well I was out on the streets protesting in Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with tens of thousands, and supported in our marches by many more, and we were not listened to by New Labour war mongers. Foulkes and Reid and other "socialists" all share the blame for the current situation in Iraq. /quote]
If you wish to be taken seriously ever again then you must never use the words Foulkes, Reid and socialists in the same sentence as doing so only demonstrates that not only do you not have the answers but sadly you have failed to understand the question.
Why was he wrong? He supported the war - this is what was wrong, not the fact that he publicly backed it. Well I was out on the streets protesting in Aberdeen and Edinburgh, with tens of thousands, and supported in our marches by many more, and we were not listened to by New Labour war mongers. Foulkes and Reid and other "socialists" all share the blame for the current situation in Iraq. /quote]
If you wish to be taken seriously ever again then you must never use the words Foulkes, Reid and socialists in the same sentence as doing so only demonstrates that not only do you not have the answers but sadly you have failed to understand the question.
Posted by: Dougthedug on 2:03pm Sun 16 Sep 07
George shouting and creating waves is a problem for Ms. Alexander which won't go away as Lord George Foulkes is an ex-MP, a member of the House of Lords and long-time member of the Labour party.
Therefore in his eyes he is senior to Wendy despite being an MSP. She's only ever been an MSP and so far has made it to the dizzying heights of Labour's Scottish Parliament leader, a local authority post whose authority ends at the doors of Holyrood as far as George is concerned.
This is simply a result of Labour having no defined Scottish organisation within the party, the media may bang on about Wendy being the, "Scottish Labour leader", but George knows the score.
The post of, "Labour's Scottish Parliament leader", doesn't even get a mention on the pages about how the Labour party structure works in Scotland.
http://www.scottishl
abour.org.uk/how_the
_party_works
It's going to be fun as Wendy and her vague ideas about devolving power within the Labour party to a new and separate Scottish Labour organisation, with her at the helm, hit the buffers of the majority hard-line unionists within the Labour party who want nothing to do with her or the concept.
George shouting and creating waves is a problem for Ms. Alexander which won't go away as Lord George Foulkes is an ex-MP, a member of the House of Lords and long-time member of the Labour party.
Therefore in his eyes he is senior to Wendy despite being an MSP. She's only ever been an MSP and so far has made it to the dizzying heights of Labour's Scottish Parliament leader, a local authority post whose authority ends at the doors of Holyrood as far as George is concerned.
This is simply a result of Labour having no defined Scottish organisation within the party, the media may bang on about Wendy being the, "Scottish Labour leader", but George knows the score.
The post of, "Labour's Scottish Parliament leader", doesn't even get a mention on the pages about how the Labour party structure works in Scotland.
http://www.scottishl
abour.org.uk/how_the
_party_works
It's going to be fun as Wendy and her vague ideas about devolving power within the Labour party to a new and separate Scottish Labour organisation, with her at the helm, hit the buffers of the majority hard-line unionists within the Labour party who want nothing to do with her or the concept.
Posted by: Lawrence Rowe on 2:12pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Bullywealba says "If he (The Lord Foulkes) wishes to court personal publicity by putting his head above the parapet, he must expect to be shot at by those he chooses to attack."
This is what is wrong with public life in Scotland. Why should a senior statesman like Lord Foukes be "shot at" for standing up for his beliefs? He should be respected, even by his opponents, considering his decades of public service. Why legitiminse these bullyboy tactics bullyweealba?
Lord Foulkes is always respectful of his opponents. He deserves the same in retun
Bullywealba says "If he (The Lord Foulkes) wishes to court personal publicity by putting his head above the parapet, he must expect to be shot at by those he chooses to attack."
This is what is wrong with public life in Scotland. Why should a senior statesman like Lord Foukes be "shot at" for standing up for his beliefs? He should be respected, even by his opponents, considering his decades of public service. Why legitiminse these bullyboy tactics bullyweealba?
Lord Foulkes is always respectful of his opponents. He deserves the same in retun
Posted by: Harriet on 2:28pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Greig at 12.50 says Lord Foulkes is "an old has been" and asks him to " Please shut up and let the modern scotland flourish"
As a young Scot can I say I am inspired by Lord Foulkes and long may he contribute to the debates on the future of our country. Together we can all flourish.
Greig at 12.50 says Lord Foulkes is "an old has been" and asks him to " Please shut up and let the modern scotland flourish"
As a young Scot can I say I am inspired by Lord Foulkes and long may he contribute to the debates on the future of our country. Together we can all flourish.
Posted by: Oliver Bryson on 2:48pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Scottish politics would be all the poorer without Lord Foulkes. We should be encourging other former MPs to come out of retirement to strengthen the quality at Holyrood.
Scottish politics would be all the poorer without Lord Foulkes. We should be encourging other former MPs to come out of retirement to strengthen the quality at Holyrood.
Posted by: RoryP on 2:59pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Oliver, I agree with you sentiment but would go further. Current MPs should also be members at Holyrood. It is no accident that the two outstanding politicians at Holyrood arSalmond and Foulkes, both MPs of long standing.
And retiring MPs should be able to remain MSPs for a period of 5 years.
Oliver, I agree with you sentiment but would go further. Current MPs should also be members at Holyrood. It is no accident that the two outstanding politicians at Holyrood arSalmond and Foulkes, both MPs of long standing.
And retiring MPs should be able to remain MSPs for a period of 5 years.
Posted by: Emma on 3:28pm Sun 16 Sep 07
Here here. Lord George Reid is another ex MP who excelled at Holyrood. MPs doing say two days a week at Holyrood would add to the gravitas, quality and interest levels. And guys like Malcolm Rifkind, Ian Lang and Lord Robertson surely still have much to offer.
Here here. Lord George Reid is another ex MP who excelled at Holyrood. MPs doing say two days a week at Holyrood would add to the gravitas, quality and interest levels. And guys like Malcolm Rifkind, Ian Lang and Lord Robertson surely still have much to offer.
Posted by: marianne on 3:33pm Sun 16 Sep 07
My abiding memory of Lord Foulkes was hearing him get his commeuppance from James Naughtie (the presenter of BBC Radio 4's Today) during an interview (about the developing chaos in Iraq) for the programme a couple of years ago. Foulkes always an enthusiastic advocate for Labour's Iraq war policy, was still saying how well it was all going. When challenged on this in the light of reports coming from Iraq, he made the mistake of voicing his disdain for the BBC journalists and suggesting that their reports were not really up to scratch. Naughtie was outraged at the slur, and just about ate Foulkes on air. Maybe the first time anyone has been able to shut him up.
A few weeks ago - at the time of the Lockerbie prisoner return debacle, he went on television and actually said that his reason for being in the Scottish Parliament was to keep an eye on the Nationalists so that he could report back to Downing Street.
He's not an asset to the Labour party.
My abiding memory of Lord Foulkes was hearing him get his commeuppance from James Naughtie (the presenter of BBC Radio 4's Today) during an interview (about the developing chaos in Iraq) for the programme a couple of years ago. Foulkes always an enthusiastic advocate for Labour's Iraq war policy, was still saying how well it was all going. When challenged on this in the light of reports coming from Iraq, he made the mistake of voicing his disdain for the BBC journalists and suggesting that their reports were not really up to scratch. Naughtie was outraged at the slur, and just about ate Foulkes on air. Maybe the first time anyone has been able to shut him up.
A few weeks ago - at the time of the Lockerbie prisoner return debacle, he went on television and actually said that his reason for being in the Scottish Parliament was to keep an eye on the Nationalists so that he could report back to Downing Street.
He's not an asset to the Labour party.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 3:34pm Sun 16 Sep 07
One looks at some of the above comments in utter disbelief. get it right folks, There is no Labour Party any longer. What has replaced it is THE NEW LABOUR PARTY: A ragtag mob of extreme right wing scumbags who appear to have no morallity on any issue. By whatever standards you wish to select - whether it if the NHS disappearing down the toilet, the child-poverty pandemic, or the continuation and escalation of weapons of mass destruction these vermin have failed Scotland bigtime.
One can accuse The noble m'Lord of many things but a "patriot", a "statesman" and an "insperation"? Please! Funny I would mark Foulkes down as a drink-radled lout, who can always be counted to do any dirty job for the govt; promoting a war that has already claimed over 677,000 women, men and kiddies -
send for Foulkes! Still at least he is not attacking old women and cops in uniform.
One looks at some of the above comments in utter disbelief. get it right folks, There is no Labour Party any longer. What has replaced it is THE NEW LABOUR PARTY: A ragtag mob of extreme right wing scumbags who appear to have no morallity on any issue. By whatever standards you wish to select - whether it if the NHS disappearing down the toilet, the child-poverty pandemic, or the continuation and escalation of weapons of mass destruction these vermin have failed Scotland bigtime.
One can accuse The noble m'Lord of many things but a "patriot", a "statesman" and an "insperation"? Please! Funny I would mark Foulkes down as a drink-radled lout, who can always be counted to do any dirty job for the govt; promoting a war that has already claimed over 677,000 women, men and kiddies -
send for Foulkes! Still at least he is not attacking old women and cops in uniform.
Posted by: John, Glasgow on 3:36pm Sun 16 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Gianni[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Realpatriot[/bold] wrote: [quote]Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance[/quote] Who here are the bigots? Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots. [/quote] Well then, finally, offer a coherent, cogent, intelligent argument for the Union instead of arguing against the Scottish people by saying the economy is a basket-case, or Scotland is parochial in mind, or the other vaqriety politics of fear your leaders and Unionists employ to try to cow the Scottish people. Why should Scotland be determined to stay in the Union?[/quote] It's taken a while and has yet to arrive, Gianni, from anyone on the Unionist standpoint so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you for an argument for the Union one on this thread. I am beginning to suspect there is no such thing as an argument for the Union that doesn't rely on laughable concepts of loyalty, self-interest, blood-ties, xenophobia, or fear. It's also quite funny that 'realpatriot' say the Unionist contingent in Holyrood respect the Scottish people when they refuse pointblankedly to even consider the concept of the Scottish people voting in a referendum on their future.
It's interesting what you say about Labour trying to assume a mantle as a party of patriotism. The Labour standpoint is one which ensures the Scottish people stay impotent in domestic and international politics and if that is patriotism then I need to get myself a new reference dictionary because I always understood a true statesman and patriot to be someone who wants to empower people on the domestically and internationally.
The SNP want to open the world for the Scottish people and to open Scotland for the world. The arch-Unionists want to keep Scotland as they imagine the place to be: a parochial back-water. Just show patience the SNP supporters see Scotland as it could be while the Unionist coalition can only see ways to limit Scotland and the Scottish people.
Gianni wrote:
Realpatriot wrote: Gianni writes: The Unionists are but a crew of political naives who repeat their leaders' vacuous, illogical, offensive, bigoted, prejudiced, impotent, and pathologically negative arguments against good and legitimate governance
Who here are the bigots? Unionists by any count represent at least half of Scotland, but here we are dismissed and insulted in this tirade for fighting our corner. We are indeed the "realpatriots" because we respect all our fellow scots.
Well then, finally, offer a coherent, cogent, intelligent argument for the Union instead of arguing against the Scottish people by saying the economy is a basket-case, or Scotland is parochial in mind, or the other vaqriety politics of fear your leaders and Unionists employ to try to cow the Scottish people. Why should Scotland be determined to stay in the Union?
It's taken a while and has yet to arrive, Gianni, from anyone on the Unionist standpoint so I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you for an argument for the Union one on this thread. I am beginning to suspect there is no such thing as an argument for the Union that doesn't rely on laughable concepts of loyalt
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