The secret scandal of the refugee beggars Government policy is putting failed asylum seekers on the streets and into a limbo existence of despair
INVESTIGATION BY NEIL MACKAY TIME HAS just about run out for Lidya Ghebrehiwet. If it wasn't for a combination of charity and luck, the 26-year-old Eritrean would be sleeping rough on the streets of Glasgow tonight. Within days though, her luck will run out and she'll be homeless, destitute and barred from working in order to feed, clothe and shelter herself.
Ghebrehiwet is merely the latest refugee to be reduced to the status of a non-person by the UK government. Few know about the scandal, but cases like hers are far from uncommon. From Glasgow to London, Home Office policy has turned an estimated 5000 men, women and children - who say they are in peril of their lives in their home countries - into down-and-outs. In one month alone in Glasgow, the Scottish Refugee Council counted 154 refugees and their dependents living as beggars in the city.
A Pentecostal Christian, Lidya was persecuted and arrested by the Eritrean government. Eventually, she fled to the UK. On September 27, her attempt to gain refugee status in Britain ran out of steam. The Home Office wrote to her saying she now had to leave Britain - she was a failed asylum seeker. Ghebrehiwet was informed that on October 9 she would not receive one more penny from the British government. If she worked, she would be committing a criminal offence.
Ghebrehiwet now faces a choice thousands like her have faced before: go underground, hoping to scrape together a living on the black economy, sleep rough, or go back home and risk death.
Through a translator Ghebrehiwet, who is epileptic, says: "I am receiving no benefits and I am not allowed to work. I am hungry, scared, destitute and depressed." She desperately hopes she can stay in her flat, which is owned by a firm contracted by the Home Office to let accommodation to asylum seekers, until tomorrow. But they want her out now. She's begged and delayed her landlords, and even hidden from them to avoid eviction. The week before last, the Refugee Council gave her £40. Last week, Positive Action in Housing (PAIH) - the anti-racism charity - gave her £20. That's all she's had to live on. She's been surviving on sandwiches.
"I pray to God that he'll help me," says Lidya. "I'm scared of being homeless. I am not a man. I don't know what will happen to me on the streets. I know that if I go back to Eritrea I will be killed."
If her luck runs out and her landlords throw her onto the streets this weekend, PAIH will dip into its emergency funds to pay for a hostel bed for her for up to three nights. After that, it will ring round its dozen or so active volunteers to see if anyone will give her a bed. From then on, though, she's basically on her own. Charities don't have the funds to support "non-persons" like Lidya indefinitely.
Life could be worse, though.
Rachel is 54 and a failed asylum seeker from Zimbabwe. She was forced on to the streets of Glasgow and had to turn to prostitution after her asylum claim collapsed. She now depends on charity, and lives hand-to-mouth, sleeping on one person's floor after another. Before she fled to the UK - because of her opposition to Robert Mugabe's regime - she was a nurse and a counsellor combating male violence against women in Zimbabwe. The final straw came when she was abducted, beaten and left for dead by supporters of the Zanu-PF government.
After she claimed asylum in the UK, she discovered her husband had been killed and her house destroyed. Once her appeals to stay in Britain were exhausted, she applied for emergency financial aid but was turned down. Her daughter, Sarah, is also in the UK. She's HIV positive and was also forced into prostitution when she became destitute.
"I am nothing in this country," she says, "a cockroach is better than me. Even a dog in this country has shelter but I have nothing. I don't know when my suffering will stop ... How do they think I can survive? The people I stay with ask me for money. I don't have any. I am ashamed I have forced myself to sleep with men for money and food. That is what my daughter did too, and now she has HIV. It doesn't matter for me: I am old. What does it matter if I die?"
Recent figures show that up to 283,000 failed asylum seekers should have been removed from Britain, but nobody knows where they are. They choose not to go home for fear of torture and murder, or because a squalid existence in the UK is preferable to hunger and disease back home. Once their asylum application has failed, they have no choice but to go underground, seeking work in the black economy, facing exploitation and blackmail. If they can't get illegal work, they sleep on the streets, under railway arches and in shop doorways.
THE only way the government will pay benefits to failed asylum seekers is if they formally agree to quit Britain at the first available opportunity. They won't get any benefit, however, unless they provide a reasonable excuse why they can't leave immediately. Exceptions are few: if a woman is more than seven months' pregnant, for example, that counts as a reason for delay. Even then, benefit payments can take months to process, leaving the failed refugee destitute. The "payments" are not in cash, though. Refugees get vouchers worth £35 a week to buy food and other necessities.
Failed asylum seekers get no healthcare, either, except in an emergency. Even HIV/Aids sufferers cannot get free treatment. Parliament has condemned the policy, with the Commons' home affairs select committee saying that "where the removal of a failed asylum seeker is delayed through no fault of his own, it is morally unacceptable for him to be rendered destitute". The House of Lords' joint committee on human rights says the system "results in widespread destitution" and "the treatment of asylum seekers ... breaches the European Convention on Human Rights threshold of inhuman and degrading treatment". The committee said it was "persuaded that the government has indeed been practising a deliberate policy of destitution ... This is unacceptable ... The policy of enforced destitution must cease."
Amnesty International says that "the evidence ... suggests the very aim of the Home Office policy is to make rejected asylum seekers destitute to force them to go home". But Amnesty says that doesn't work, as the huge numbers of failed asylum seekers still in the UK proves.
Leaving Britain as a failed asylum seeker is not as simple as getting a plane ticket from the Home Office and heading home. As Amnesty points out: "Many countries of origin do no co-operate with the readmission of their nationals." Amnesty says the Home Office is not returning failed asylum seekers - and so keeping them trapped in destitution in the UK - "either because their is no viable route or because the embassy refuses to issue a travel document". Eritrea, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo are all countries to which it is almost impossible to return failed refugees.
One firm of solicitors told of more than 100 rejected Eritrean refugees who could not be returned as their embassy would not issue travel documents. Despite this, the Home Office would not grant them leave to remain, and, by doing so, lift them out of destitution.
In London, Islington Council's No Recourse To Public Funds team helps look after 60 destitute refugees, including HIV patients, people with mental health problems and families with children.
Amnesty said refugees were living "on the margins of society" and in "abject poverty". Theirs was a "painful limbo existence", the human rights organisation added, and many suffer depression and other mental health problems.
"Living off the charity of others stripped them of their dignity: having nothing and having to ask for everything. Many appear to have given up hope of ever being able to live a normal life," said Amnesty, which also said that women and young girls had been forced into prostitution or providing sexual favours in return for a floor to sleep on.
David Reilly, head of policy with Positive Action in Housing, said: "Destitution is used as an instrument to force people to abandon their asylum claims - to literally starve them out of the country. It's also cheap. Dawn raids and detention are very expensive ways of getting someone out of Britain. People come to us as they are terrified about what is happening to them. Only a quarter of them have actually reached the very end of their appeal process when they are left destitute, the rest still have appeals to go through."
As he talks, a pregnant Chinese woman is leaving his office. She's destitute, and PAIH staff are trying to get her into a hostel. For the past few days, she's been sleeping on friends' floors. Reilly says China will not accept returned asylum seekers from the UK. A second Chinese woman, Quin Chen, is also pregnant - but not pregnant enough to qualify for support, which only kicks in at seven months. Chen is a Chinese Christian fleeing persecution from the Communist Party. She too is staying with volunteers across Scotland. Reilly said: "She is a prime example of someone who has fallen through the gap." He also recalls a pregnant woman from Congo who collapsed in his office. She was homeless and hadn't eaten for four days. She had been too ashamed to beg. Last year, PAIH saw 228 destitute refugees.
One of the most tragic cases Reilly dealt with involved an Iranian man who used the few pounds he got from charities to buy weekly tickets for Glasgow's night buses so he could sleep. One night while waiting for the bus in Maryhill he was attacked by a group of youths, stabbed seven times in the back and had his bus ticket - his only possession - stolen. After four days in hospital, he was discharged back to the streets. He was eventually arrested, spent a year in detention and finally sent back to Iran.
In another case, a mentally ill man from Eritrea, who was confined to a wheelchair by polio, slept rough in Glasgow for three months. While homeless, he would deliberately wheel himself into the path of oncoming traffic. Before being left destitute, he had been attending college. Despite the government forcing him into destitution, the Home Office later did a U-turn and gave him temporary leave to remain in Scotland. PAIH describes this as "the most extreme form of a Kafkaesque bureaucracy".
In August, a destitute failed asylum seeker from Iraq, 28-year-old Solyman Rashed, was returned to Baghdad. He had fled his homeland in 2001 because of persecution under Saddam's regime. On September 3, he was killed in a car bomb in Kirkuk. In Glasgow, just 10 people attended a vigil in his memory.
"There are more and more people coming to us who were made homeless, then later given indefinite leave to remain," says Reilly. "To me that is an admission by the government that these people need protection from the UK, yet they've been forced onto the streets."
The government has even created a new category of homelessness: "administrative destitution". This happens when there is a file mix-up and the wrong family is turned down for asylum and left with nowhere to go. Reilly has seen this lead to children sleeping rough.
"This is almost the last area of life in Britain where people can fall completely between the gaps - there's no safety net," says Reilly. "Not since Victorian times has there been a deliberate policy used to force people into destitution. Yet the policy doesn't work - once they're forced on to the streets the government loses track of them, and can't detain them or get rid of them. All it does it make people vulnerable to exploitation. We know of men and women being approached for sexual exploitation. We really fear what these people could be driven to.
"I don't think until something terrible happens to one of these people - like the cockle-pickers at Morecambe Bay - that the UK will realise what it is doing."
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Posted by: P Andrew, Scotland on 1:02am Sun 14 Oct 07
How odd that all these people fleeing Africa "found their way" to the UK.
If we swallow that we'll swallow anything.
How odd that all these people fleeing Africa "found their way" to the UK.
If we swallow that we'll swallow anything.
Posted by: westhighlander, west highlands on 1:48am Sun 14 Oct 07
As individuals one can't help feeling extremely sorry for the plights of these people. But the fact of the matter is that they are economic refugees, drawn to this already overcrowded country of Britain through its (in this context) unenviable reputation as a liberal and caring society. What on earth is an epileptic Eritrean doing here? What on earth are the thousands of Romas, West Africans and others actually doing here in the first place. It's time for a very serious re-think of our immigration and asylum laws. The short answer is to put them straight back on the transport they arrived in, or if that's not possible, get them back to their country of origin one way or another ASAP - otherwise, we'll continue to grow our population by a city the size of Aberdeen every 6 months: and that's just not on, because we can't afford it.
As individuals one can't help feeling extremely sorry for the plights of these people. But the fact of the matter is that they are economic refugees, drawn to this already overcrowded country of Britain through its (in this context) unenviable reputation as a liberal and caring society. What on earth is an epileptic Eritrean doing here? What on earth are the thousands of Romas, West Africans and others actually doing here in the first place. It's time for a very serious re-think of our immigration and asylum laws. The short answer is to put them straight back on the transport they arrived in, or if that's not possible, get them back to their country of origin one way or another ASAP - otherwise, we'll continue to grow our population by a city the size of Aberdeen every 6 months: and that's just not on, because we can't afford it.
Posted by: 123, Baden Baden on 6:15am Sun 14 Oct 07
The problem with this article is that the author starts with the premise that what the refugees say is true. I don't doubt these peoople are desperate but the fact of the matter is they have no right to remain in the UK and should leave.
The problem with this article is that the author starts with the premise that what the refugees say is true. I don't doubt these peoople are desperate but the fact of the matter is they have no right to remain in the UK and should leave.
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 7:01am Sun 14 Oct 07
P Andrew & Baden Baden
If you only reflected for one minute on the horrors and struggle for life that the people of Eritrea are having then you would not be so quick to make your glib remarks.
This highlights succinctly the differences between those who genuinely need asylum in this country and the abuse of our system by the economic vagrants who are blighting our major city streets as we speak.
Glasgow (overnight it seemed) at the beginning of summer was flooded with east European gypsies and beggars all claiming they where homeless and selling the big issue..!!!!
How did this come about???.....abuse at all levels of the system, in particular by the owners of the 'Big Issue.....do not buy it you are being conned
Apologies for the rant!!
P Andrew & Baden Baden
If you only reflected for one minute on the horrors and struggle for life that the people of Eritrea are having then you would not be so quick to make your glib remarks.
This highlights succinctly the differences between those who genuinely need asylum in this country and the abuse of our system by the economic vagrants who are blighting our major city streets as we speak.
Glasgow (overnight it seemed) at the beginning of summer was flooded with east European gypsies and beggars all claiming they where homeless and selling the big issue..!!!!
How did this come about???.....abuse at all levels of the system, in particular by the owners of the 'Big Issue.....do not buy it you are being conned
Apologies for the rant!!
Posted by: John, Hong Kong on 7:38am Sun 14 Oct 07
As terrible as many of the refugees stories are i think everybody now agrees there is no more room at the inn.The world is a terrible place,full of cruel and corrupt tyrants but for the refugees to dumpthemselves in the uk solves nothing-their governments are happy for others to shoulder the financial cost of caring for them.
As terrible as many of the refugees stories are i think everybody now agrees there is no more room at the inn.The world is a terrible place,full of cruel and corrupt tyrants but for the refugees to dumpthemselves in the uk solves nothing-their governments are happy for others to shoulder the financial cost of caring for them.
Posted by: michael on 8:54am Sun 14 Oct 07
Nothing on here from the xenophobes about the hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans allowed into this country, wonder if it is beacause they are mainly all caucasian.
Nothing on here from the xenophobes about the hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans allowed into this country, wonder if it is beacause they are mainly all caucasian.
Posted by: MA, West Coast on 8:55am Sun 14 Oct 07
The UK is a tiny island, which has an existing housing, medical, dental crisis. The poverty in Glasgow is heart-breaking, with many school age children belonging to families who cannot afford to buy them shoes. We have to send out a message that we cannot take any more people from other countries. We are at breaking point.
Countless thousands make it to the safety of mainland Europe, yet will do anything to come over to our tiny island. It must not continue. We already have a huge under privileged population who need proper housing and other support. We must stop sending out signals that act as a magnet for people, many of whom would probably be more at home in many ways in continental Europe, to come here to be supported.
The UK is a tiny island, which has an existing housing, medical, dental crisis. The poverty in Glasgow is heart-breaking, with many school age children belonging to families who cannot afford to buy them shoes. We have to send out a message that we cannot take any more people from other countries. We are at breaking point.
Countless thousands make it to the safety of mainland Europe, yet will do anything to come over to our tiny island. It must not continue. We already have a huge under privileged population who need proper housing and other support. We must stop sending out signals that act as a magnet for people, many of whom would probably be more at home in many ways in continental Europe, to come here to be supported.
Posted by: norman, unitrd kingdom on 9:20am Sun 14 Oct 07
it is sad that the world today has lost respect for human life. which ever way you look at it. Give these people a chance espeacially those that can not be returned for reasons beyind their control. Give them back their diginity. Such treatment should not be tolerated in the 20th century.
it is sad that the world today has lost respect for human life. which ever way you look at it. Give these people a chance espeacially those that can not be returned for reasons beyind their control. Give them back their diginity. Such treatment should not be tolerated in the 20th century.
Posted by: mo, kirkintilloch on 9:28am Sun 14 Oct 07
It is about time we sent the royal navy all over the world and collected all the criminals and drug dealers and brought them to this country openly . It is a disgrace that these poor criminals are forced to use covert methods to enter our country and then lie when caught by our immigration .This country can easily accomodate 165 million people + . It is the right wing extremists who claim that we are full and will struggle to take more immigrants . There is shortage of pygmies in this country and this should be corrected as soon as possible {if we can find pygmies who would want to come to our county}.People say that genuine asylum seekers are ok so do I but then they say get rid of those who are here illegally . what about there human rights to commit crime in this country like the locals .people who disagree to mass immigration should be forced to leave our coutry and each replaced with 4000 failed asylum seekers .FREEDOM FOR ALL {no not you the tax paying law abiding fools}. now please all you silly lefties and yes you rosie kane if you have managed to get some one to read this for you post a note to say how racist I am ......go on.. because we now know that the majority are now sick and tired of ..well we know dont we
It is about time we sent the royal navy all over the world and collected all the criminals and drug dealers and brought them to this country openly . It is a disgrace that these poor criminals are forced to use covert methods to enter our country and then lie when caught by our immigration .This country can easily accomodate 165 million people + . It is the right wing extremists who claim that we are full and will struggle to take more immigrants . There is shortage of pygmies in this country and this should be corrected as soon as possible {if we can find pygmies who would want to come to our county}.People say that genuine asylum seekers are ok so do I but then they say get rid of those who are here illegally . what about there human rights to commit crime in this country like the locals .people who disagree to mass immigration should be forced to leave our coutry and each replaced with 4000 failed asylum seekers .FREEDOM FOR ALL {no not you the tax paying law abiding fools}. now please all you silly lefties and yes you rosie kane if you have managed to get some one to read this for you post a note to say how racist I am ......go on.. because we now know that the majority are now sick and tired of ..well we know dont we
Posted by: Allie, Glesga on 9:37am Sun 14 Oct 07
I just knew before reading this article that PAIH would be involved somewhere.
I find this organisation's constant default position tiresome: while I accept there will be some lapses in Home Office scrutiny, this is an organisation that, over the years, has appeared to view every failed asylum seeker as having been wronged by the British system.
I'm accepting of people settling in Scotland under a truthful status.
Scotland should welcome a manageable quota of those who prove to be genuine seekers of asylum.
However, a great disservice is done to these genuine people by the many others who are simply economic migrants.
Of course migrants entering the UK under a bogus status should be forced out and - if they choose - be allowed to re-apply to enter the UK under the proper status - that of economic migrant.
I just knew before reading this article that PAIH would be involved somewhere.
I find this organisation's constant default position tiresome: while I accept there will be some lapses in Home Office scrutiny, this is an organisation that, over the years, has appeared to view every failed asylum seeker as having been wronged by the British system.
I'm accepting of people settling in Scotland under a truthful status.
Scotland should welcome a manageable quota of those who prove to be genuine seekers of asylum.
However, a great disservice is done to these genuine people by the many others who are simply economic migrants.
Of course migrants entering the UK under a bogus status should be forced out and - if they choose - be allowed to re-apply to enter the UK under the proper status - that of economic migrant.
Posted by: big bad jakey on 9:49am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]westhighlander[/bold] wrote:
As individuals one can't help feeling extremely sorry for the plights of these people. But the fact of the matter is that they are economic refugees, drawn to this already overcrowded country of Britain through its (in this context) unenviable reputation as a liberal and caring society. What on earth is an epileptic Eritrean doing here? What on earth are the thousands of Romas, West Africans and others actually doing here in the first place. It's time for a very serious re-think of our immigration and asylum laws. The short answer is to put them straight back on the transport they arrived in, or if that's not possible, get them back to their country of origin one way or another ASAP - otherwise, we'll continue to grow our population by a city the size of Aberdeen every 6 months: and that's just not on, because we can't afford it. [/quote] Over crowded country, what planet are ypou living on, your name is west highlander..take a look out yer windae probably nothing but coos, gies peace
Your aberdeen analogy is proposterous, awa n bile yer neeps
westhighlander wrote:
As individuals one can't help feeling extremely sorry for the plights of these people. But the fact of the matter is that they are economic refugees, drawn to this already overcrowded country of Britain through its (in this context) unenviable reputation as a liberal and caring society. What on earth is an epileptic Eritrean doing here? What on earth are the thousands of Romas, West Africans and others actually doing here in the first place. It's time for a very serious re-think of our immigration and asylum laws. The short answer is to put them straight back on the transport they arrived in, or if that's not possible, get them back to their country of origin one way or another ASAP - otherwise, we'll continue to grow our population by a city the size of Aberdeen every 6 months: and that's just not on, because we can't afford it.
Over crowded country, what planet are ypou living on, your name is west highlander..take a look out yer windae probably nothing but coos, gies peace
Your aberdeen analogy is proposterous, awa n bile yer neeps
Posted by: Common Humanity, the real world on 9:56am Sun 14 Oct 07
When a journalist reveals the cost in human suffering caused by the UK's asylum and immigration laws, there is always the predictable backlash, which tries to justify this cruel and degrading treatment by arguing that migrants and refugees are a threat to the British people because it's a crowded island, there's not enough to go around for everyone etc.
Perhaps before rolling out these cliches people should pause to consider that the UK is a country where (according to the government's statistics the top 1% of the population hold 21% of the wealth; where the rich pay considerably much less tax than the poor, where public services are bring run down so that private investors can step in to 'reform' them and get a slice of the pie. People should also pause to consider that their taxes are being used by the British state to prop up, with weapons and aid, corrupt dictatorships that are oppressing and robbing their peoples and creating the refuggees and economic migrants in the first place, before they disregard our common humanity and vent their spleen on the most vulnerable in our society.
When a journalist reveals the cost in human suffering caused by the UK's asylum and immigration laws, there is always the predictable backlash, which tries to justify this cruel and degrading treatment by arguing that migrants and refugees are a threat to the British people because it's a crowded island, there's not enough to go around for everyone etc.
Perhaps before rolling out these cliches people should pause to consider that the UK is a country where (according to the government's statistics the top 1% of the population hold 21% of the wealth; where the rich pay considerably much less tax than the poor, where public services are bring run down so that private investors can step in to 'reform' them and get a slice of the pie. People should also pause to consider that their taxes are being used by the British state to prop up, with weapons and aid, corrupt dictatorships that are oppressing and robbing their peoples and creating the refuggees and economic migrants in the first place, before they disregard our common humanity and vent their spleen on the most vulnerable in our society.
Posted by: Tam, Scotland on 9:57am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]michael[/bold] wrote:
Nothing on here from the xenophobes about the hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans allowed into this country, wonder if it is beacause they are mainly all caucasian.[/quote] Nah, these people you refer to are the backbone of the Sun, Star and News of the World readership, they think there are too many 'big words' in the Sunday Herald to understand.
michael wrote:
Nothing on here from the xenophobes about the hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans allowed into this country, wonder if it is beacause they are mainly all caucasian.
Nah, these people you refer to are the backbone of the Sun, Star and News of the World readership, they think there are too many 'big words' in the Sunday Herald to understand.
Posted by: Allie, Glesga on 10:17am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Common Humanity[/bold] wrote:
When a journalist reveals the cost in human suffering caused by the UK's asylum and immigration laws, there is always the predictable backlash, which tries to justify this cruel and degrading treatment by arguing that migrants and refugees are a threat to the British people because it's a crowded island, there's not enough to go around for everyone etc. Perhaps before rolling out these cliches people should pause to consider that the UK is a country where (according to the government's statistics the top 1% of the population hold 21% of the wealth; where the rich pay considerably much less tax than the poor, where public services are bring run down so that private investors can step in to 'reform' them and get a slice of the pie. People should also pause to consider that their taxes are being used by the British state to prop up, with weapons and aid, corrupt dictatorships that are oppressing and robbing their peoples and creating the refuggees and economic migrants in the first place, before they disregard our common humanity and vent their spleen on the most vulnerable in our society.[/quote] where exactly is your proof that the 'human suffering' referred to in this sunday herald article is caused by the UK's asylum laws?
Common Humanity wrote:
When a journalist reveals the cost in human suffering caused by the UK's asylum and immigration laws, there is always the predictable backlash, which tries to justify this cruel and degrading treatment by arguing that migrants and refugees are a threat to the British people because it's a crowded island, there's not enough to go around for everyone etc. Perhaps before rolling out these cliches people should pause to consider that the UK is a country where (according to the government's statistics the top 1% of the population hold 21% of the wealth; where the rich pay considerably much less tax than the poor, where public services are bring run down so that private investors can step in to 'reform' them and get a slice of the pie. People should also pause to consider that their taxes are being used by the British state to prop up, with weapons and aid, corrupt dictatorships that are oppressing and robbing their peoples and creating the refuggees and economic migrants in the first place, before they disregard our common humanity and vent their spleen on the most vulnerable in our society.
where exactly is your proof that the 'human suffering' referred to in this sunday herald article is caused by the UK's asylum laws?
Posted by: Enough is enough, afsdgfd@lycos.co.uk on 10:20am Sun 14 Oct 07
How many are simply economic migrants? Do we open our border and let everybody in?
How many are skilled? How many are REALLY skilled? Government spin on this issue is simply not believable.
The above article connects to asylum seekers. How many illegals are living here? How many from Europe as per Poland? How many have immigrated here? How many foreign "students"? How many on work permits? How many from Ireland and so on? In Argyllshire a high percentage of the populace was born in England.
Surely we must draw the line somewhere?
And yes, what of the existing poverty in Glasgow? These clowns who harp on about asylum seekers ought focus on the existing poor.
Do social workers run after them with flowers and fruit? DO THEY? Do they get priority housing? Do they get refurbished housing?
As for these middle class do gooders, do they ssend their kids to schools that have classes with very few white kids in them? Do they send them to schools where a high percentage of kids have very poor english?
Do they wait weeks for a Doctors appointment?
Do they understand the notion of supply and demand? The more unskilled workers that come in (supply) the lower the price and condition will be. In other words, these people are driving the wages and conditions of poor workers down even further.
How many are simply economic migrants? Do we open our border and let everybody in?
How many are skilled? How many are REALLY skilled? Government spin on this issue is simply not believable.
The above article connects to asylum seekers. How many illegals are living here? How many from Europe as per Poland? How many have immigrated here? How many foreign "students"? How many on work permits? How many from Ireland and so on? In Argyllshire a high percentage of the populace was born in England.
Surely we must draw the line somewhere?
And yes, what of the existing poverty in Glasgow? These clowns who harp on about asylum seekers ought focus on the existing poor.
Do social workers run after them with flowers and fruit? DO THEY? Do they get priority housing? Do they get refurbished housing?
As for these middle class do gooders, do they ssend their kids to schools that have classes with very few white kids in them? Do they send them to schools where a high percentage of kids have very poor english?
Do they wait weeks for a Doctors appointment?
Do they understand the notion of supply and demand? The more unskilled workers that come in (supply) the lower the price and condition will be. In other words, these people are driving the wages and conditions of poor workers down even further.
Posted by: shazza, My own home on 10:23am Sun 14 Oct 07
Sad tales of despair BUT we as a nation can not cope with these folk coming into our country. I'm fed up seeing non scots selling the big issue. If a non scot can't work then they add no value to our economy and should return to africa etc.
Sad tales of despair BUT we as a nation can not cope with these folk coming into our country. I'm fed up seeing non scots selling the big issue. If a non scot can't work then they add no value to our economy and should return to africa etc.
Posted by: Boaby Swingin, in deep despair on 10:24am Sun 14 Oct 07
With tears in her eyes, devastatingly desirable Wendy Alexander said, "Whatever happened to Christian charity - that's another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
With tears in her eyes, devastatingly desirable Wendy Alexander said, "Whatever happened to Christian charity - that's another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 10:36am Sun 14 Oct 07
Boaby Swingin,
Your posts are class
More power to your typing fingers!
The one about Faslane on the other article regarding Wendy and her services to sailors is worthy of a Still Game episode...
Burstin' ma sides....keep it up!!!
Boaby Swingin,
Your posts are class
More power to your typing fingers!
The one about Faslane on the other article regarding Wendy and her services to sailors is worthy of a Still Game episode...
Burstin' ma sides....keep it up!!!
Posted by: Seumas, Irvine on 10:50am Sun 14 Oct 07
Resent the anti Roma coments Carlo.You don't have a clue about their circumstances and having an adopted Roma daughter from Slovakia who by the way is educated,employed and integrated with her family into our community down here in Ayrshire I take issue with your generalised analysis.Maybe you should look at the rise of the far right in Eastern Europe who incidentally are represented in government then you may see the reason people try to make a new life for themselves.Check out magyar garda or sns jan Slota or hlinka guard these are not minority crackpots but established organisations with broad support
Resent the anti Roma coments Carlo.You don't have a clue about their circumstances and having an adopted Roma daughter from Slovakia who by the way is educated,employed and integrated with her family into our community down here in Ayrshire I take issue with your generalised analysis.Maybe you should look at the rise of the far right in Eastern Europe who incidentally are represented in government then you may see the reason people try to make a new life for themselves.Check out magyar garda or sns jan Slota or hlinka guard these are not minority crackpots but established organisations with broad support
Posted by: RAD on 10:57am Sun 14 Oct 07
While have every sympathy with the plight of refugees/asylum seekers - thought that asylum law meant seeking refuge in the nearest state?
Granted those surrounding Eritrea might not necessarily be the safest, but making it all the way to Glasgow?
Also, given the end of the civil war etc - Eritrea too is surely safer than it has been in some time - perhaps the key to the case here is that the woman has epilepsy?
While have every sympathy with the plight of refugees/asylum seekers - thought that asylum law meant seeking refuge in the nearest state?
Granted those surrounding Eritrea might not necessarily be the safest, but making it all the way to Glasgow?
Also, given the end of the civil war etc - Eritrea too is surely safer than it has been in some time - perhaps the key to the case here is that the woman has epilepsy?
Posted by: big bad jakey on 11:04am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Enough is enough[/bold] wrote:
How many are simply economic migrants? Do we open our border and let everybody in? How many are skilled? How many are REALLY skilled? Government spin on this issue is simply not believable. The above article connects to asylum seekers. How many illegals are living here? How many from Europe as per Poland? How many have immigrated here? How many foreign "students"? How many on work permits? How many from Ireland and so on? In Argyllshire a high percentage of the populace was born in England. Surely we must draw the line somewhere? And yes, what of the existing poverty in Glasgow? These clowns who harp on about asylum seekers ought focus on the existing poor. Do social workers run after them with flowers and fruit? DO THEY? Do they get priority housing? Do they get refurbished housing? As for these middle class do gooders, do they ssend their kids to schools that have classes with very few white kids in them? Do they send them to schools where a high percentage of kids have very poor english? Do they wait weeks for a Doctors appointment? Do they understand the notion of supply and demand? The more unskilled workers that come in (supply) the lower the price and condition will be. In other words, these people are driving the wages and conditions of poor workers down even further. [/quote] To paraphrase the above, UTTER MINCE
Enough is enough wrote:
How many are simply economic migrants? Do we open our border and let everybody in? How many are skilled? How many are REALLY skilled? Government spin on this issue is simply not believable. The above article connects to asylum seekers. How many illegals are living here? How many from Europe as per Poland? How many have immigrated here? How many foreign "students"? How many on work permits? How many from Ireland and so on? In Argyllshire a high percentage of the populace was born in England. Surely we must draw the line somewhere? And yes, what of the existing poverty in Glasgow? These clowns who harp on about asylum seekers ought focus on the existing poor. Do social workers run after them with flowers and fruit? DO THEY? Do they get priority housing? Do they get refurbished housing? As for these middle class do gooders, do they ssend their kids to schools that have classes with very few white kids in them? Do they send them to schools where a high percentage of kids have very poor english? Do they wait weeks for a Doctors appointment? Do they understand the notion of supply and demand? The more unskilled workers that come in (supply) the lower the price and condition will be. In other words, these people are driving the wages and conditions of poor workers down even further.
To paraphrase the above, UTTER MINCE
Posted by: jakeys outpost on 11:12am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Carlo[/bold] wrote:
Boaby Swingin, Your posts are class More power to your typing fingers! The one about Faslane on the other article regarding Wendy and her services to sailors is worthy of a Still Game episode... Burstin' ma sides....keep it up!!![/quote] Old hat mince
Carlo wrote:
Boaby Swingin, Your posts are class More power to your typing fingers! The one about Faslane on the other article regarding Wendy and her services to sailors is worthy of a Still Game episode... Burstin' ma sides....keep it up!!!
Old hat mince
Posted by: david, glasgow on 11:29am Sun 14 Oct 07
The point that charities make is this: whist someone is in the uk they should not be left hungry on the streets.
It is morally wrong and irrational in that it mostly does not work.
it is especially wrong when people are from countries that are unsafe to return to or who will not accept retunred refugees.
In the former we see people being killed on retunr to iraq and in the latter, folk being left on the steets indefinately.
Positive action in housing desperatly need dnations to support people in this situation; to donate go to
www.paih.org
The point that charities make is this: whist someone is in the uk they should not be left hungry on the streets.
It is morally wrong and irrational in that it mostly does not work.
it is especially wrong when people are from countries that are unsafe to return to or who will not accept retunred refugees.
In the former we see people being killed on retunr to iraq and in the latter, folk being left on the steets indefinately.
Positive action in housing desperatly need dnations to support people in this situation; to donate go to
www.paih.org
Posted by: Moira, Glasgow on 11:47am Sun 14 Oct 07
Oppression, torture, loss of family and home; only such horrors would persuade anyone to escape to a country where they will confronted with such a display ignorance and callousness. Fortunately the racist rantings shown here by an ignorant minority do not reflect the opinion of all.
Oppression, torture, loss of family and home; only such horrors would persuade anyone to escape to a country where they will confronted with such a display ignorance and callousness. Fortunately the racist rantings shown here by an ignorant minority do not reflect the opinion of all.
Posted by: Paul Stewart, Glasgow on 12:01pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]MA[/bold] wrote:
The UK is a tiny island, which has an existing housing, medical, dental crisis. The poverty in Glasgow is heart-breaking, with many school age children belonging to families who cannot afford to buy them shoes. We have to send out a message that we cannot take any more people from other countries. We are at breaking point. Countless thousands make it to the safety of mainland Europe, yet will do anything to come over to our tiny island. It must not continue. We already have a huge under privileged population who need proper housing and other support. We must stop sending out signals that act as a magnet for people, many of whom would probably be more at home in many ways in continental Europe, to come here to be supported.[/quote] Tiny Island?
Its actually the largest Island in Europe.
I dont understand this belief that providing shelter and asylum for those fleeing oppression and insecurity abroad is somehow incompatible with providing the necessities of life for people who are currently living here.
Many if not most of us are products of immigration ourselves, whether it be second, third or fourth generation. Many of those people in our own family trees would have been subject to the same prejudice as those arriving today face.
Yet people continue to spout this nonsense.
MA wrote:
The UK is a tiny island, which has an existing housing, medical, dental crisis. The poverty in Glasgow is heart-breaking, with many school age children belonging to families who cannot afford to buy them shoes. We have to send out a message that we cannot take any more people from other countries. We are at breaking point. Countless thousands make it to the safety of mainland Europe, yet will do anything to come over to our tiny island. It must not continue. We already have a huge under privileged population who need proper housing and other support. We must stop sending out signals that act as a magnet for people, many of whom would probably be more at home in many ways in continental Europe, to come here to be supported.
Tiny Island?
Its actually the largest Island in Europe.
I dont understand this belief that providing shelter and asylum for those fleeing oppression and insecurity abroad is somehow incompatible with providing the necessities of life for people who are currently living here.
Many if not most of us are products of immigration ourselves, whether it be second, third or fourth generation. Many of those people in our own family trees would have been subject to the same prejudice as those arriving today face.
Yet people continue to spout this nonsense.
Posted by: Allie, Glesga on 12:02pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Moira[/bold] wrote:
Oppression, torture, loss of family and home; only such horrors would persuade anyone to escape to a country where they will confronted with such a display ignorance and callousness. Fortunately the racist rantings shown here by an ignorant minority do not reflect the opinion of all. [/quote] Well, at least we got 25 comments in before someone played the 'racist rant' card, in an attempt to stifle debate.
Remove the scales from your eyes Moira.
Based on the types of posts here - on a liberal, left-of-centre newspaper site - it is your attitude that is in the minority.
Valid comments are being made here by people tired of the situation ... however uncomfortable you may feel about their lack of political correctness.
Moira wrote:
Oppression, torture, loss of family and home; only such horrors would persuade anyone to escape to a country where they will confronted with such a display ignorance and callousness. Fortunately the racist rantings shown here by an ignorant minority do not reflect the opinion of all.
Well, at least we got 25 comments in before someone played the 'racist rant' card, in an attempt to stifle debate.
Remove the scales from your eyes Moira.
Based on the types of posts here - on a liberal, left-of-centre newspaper site - it is your attitude that is in the minority.
Valid comments are being made here by people tired of the situation ... however uncomfortable you may feel about their lack of political correctness.
Posted by: Craig P, banana boat on 12:11pm Sun 14 Oct 07
If we really want to stop people coming here why not tell the councils that they can get money for every person they take on, then let them be housed in urban housing schemes ( high rise preferably, then let them suffer racism daily, let folk spit at their wifes and kids, smear excrement on their doors, then they may not want to come here... oh we did that! Neil Mackay has really shown what a lot of xenophobic bampots this nation has in it. Some of these responses would be fitting of the Sun or Mirror you disgust me...
If we really want to stop people coming here why not tell the councils that they can get money for every person they take on, then let them be housed in urban housing schemes ( high rise preferably, then let them suffer racism daily, let folk spit at their wifes and kids, smear excrement on their doors, then they may not want to come here... oh we did that! Neil Mackay has really shown what a lot of xenophobic bampots this nation has in it. Some of these responses would be fitting of the Sun or Mirror you disgust me...
Posted by: Mary Brooksbank on 12:13pm Sun 14 Oct 07
what is wrong with being an "economic migrant" ? millions of Scots have gone to north america, southern africa, australia, new zealand, spain and a number of other places over the last century, they were clearly economic migrants. do the xenophobes think they and their families should all be repatriated ? were the indigenous people of those lands ever consulted ?
trying to stop migration while allowing capital, and resources to travel freely and with economic inticements is bizarre. if you are well off financially, white & christian you can go anywhere but woe betide anyone of colour daring to choose where to live.
should we have individual immigration quotas not only for countries but also town and cities or right down to street level?
what is wrong with being an "economic migrant" ? millions of Scots have gone to north america, southern africa, australia, new zealand, spain and a number of other places over the last century, they were clearly economic migrants. do the xenophobes think they and their families should all be repatriated ? were the indigenous people of those lands ever consulted ?
trying to stop migration while allowing capital, and resources to travel freely and with economic inticements is bizarre. if you are well off financially, white & christian you can go anywhere but woe betide anyone of colour daring to choose where to live.
should we have individual immigration quotas not only for countries but also town and cities or right down to street level?
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 12:21pm Sun 14 Oct 07
My apologies RAD, I certainly did not mean to generalise or specifically scapegoat the ethnic group that you call 'Roma'
That was not my intention The use of Gypsies is in the generic form....but I still stand by my statement regarding the abuse of our systems.
East European vagants are not in the same league as genuine asylum seekers and business's such as 'The Big Issue' are taking us all for mugs by assuming they are....!!!
Look at the streets in Glasgow? you only have to believe your own eyes.....
My apologies RAD, I certainly did not mean to generalise or specifically scapegoat the ethnic group that you call 'Roma'
That was not my intention The use of Gypsies is in the generic form....but I still stand by my statement regarding the abuse of our systems.
East European vagants are not in the same league as genuine asylum seekers and business's such as 'The Big Issue' are taking us all for mugs by assuming they are....!!!
Look at the streets in Glasgow? you only have to believe your own eyes.....
Posted by: lawsy, glasgow on 12:25pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Hold on till I get My violin again,when will it stop , dont need to ask if she is staying at the authors house??
Hold on till I get My violin again,when will it stop , dont need to ask if she is staying at the authors house??
Posted by: Allie, Glesga on 12:30pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Mary, Craig, Paul etc ... perhaps you should have the good grace to read other people's comments before you rant-off about what you ASSUME they have posted.
The issue is not economic migration, it is bogus asylum claims ... and the assumption that the Home Office always gets its judgement wrong when it gives a ruling that the applicant - and his/her supporters with their own agenda - don't want to hear.
I'm happy for bogus asylum seekers to make a genuine application for economic migration.
Those falsely claiming to be seeking asylum only serve to harm those who should be truly given a safe haven.
Mary, Craig, Paul etc ... perhaps you should have the good grace to read other people's comments before you rant-off about what you ASSUME they have posted.
The issue is not economic migration, it is bogus asylum claims ... and the assumption that the Home Office always gets its judgement wrong when it gives a ruling that the applicant - and his/her supporters with their own agenda - don't want to hear.
I'm happy for bogus asylum seekers to make a genuine application for economic migration.
Those falsely claiming to be seeking asylum only serve to harm those who should be truly given a safe haven.
Posted by: Craig P, Banana Republic on 12:41pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Allie, I am all for the people who do not meet the criteria for asylum being sent home. I do not have issue with the way the home office come to their findings. My issue is with the way these people are cut loose from any formal body or institution and are allowed to disappear into the black economy.
Allie, I am all for the people who do not meet the criteria for asylum being sent home. I do not have issue with the way the home office come to their findings. My issue is with the way these people are cut loose from any formal body or institution and are allowed to disappear into the black economy.
Posted by: jim holloway, longsight manchester on 12:49pm Sun 14 Oct 07
People may not believe these stories to be true, but I have witnessed many similar ones myself. I accommodate destitute and desperate people in my house - someone's son or daughter far from home. The Home Office system is a cruel shambles. Whatever people think about immigration, people that are here need to be treated humanely, but they have less rights than convicted criminals.
One day people will look back on this story with shame.
People may not believe these stories to be true, but I have witnessed many similar ones myself. I accommodate destitute and desperate people in my house - someone's son or daughter far from home. The Home Office system is a cruel shambles. Whatever people think about immigration, people that are here need to be treated humanely, but they have less rights than convicted criminals.
One day people will look back on this story with shame.
Posted by: mo, kirkintilloch on 12:56pm Sun 14 Oct 07
jim holloway you silly arrogant man . do not forcast that I and others will look back at this issue with shame and infer what we are saying and hopefully soon doing is in any way shameful . I have rights to say enough is enough no more immigrants but continue with asylum seekers if they arre genuine . now whats wrong with that .
jim holloway you silly arrogant man . do not forcast that I and others will look back at this issue with shame and infer what we are saying and hopefully soon doing is in any way shameful . I have rights to say enough is enough no more immigrants but continue with asylum seekers if they arre genuine . now whats wrong with that .
Posted by: observer on 1:31pm Sun 14 Oct 07
The anti asylum seeker posts on this page are just sad. You are nasty narrow minded little bigots and you should get a life. The fact is that new blood brings a huge benefit to this Country. And before you ask I live in a part of Glasgow which has been ''flooded'' with asylum seekers. Well they are more than welcome as far as I am concerned, I would make space for them by deporting all the right wing lunatic fanatics that are holding this country back.
The anti asylum seeker posts on this page are just sad. You are nasty narrow minded little bigots and you should get a life. The fact is that new blood brings a huge benefit to this Country. And before you ask I live in a part of Glasgow which has been ''flooded'' with asylum seekers. Well they are more than welcome as far as I am concerned, I would make space for them by deporting all the right wing lunatic fanatics that are holding this country back.
Posted by: mandela, Johannesburg on 1:36pm Sun 14 Oct 07
I have lived and worked throughout Africa for 42 years and believe me (and I love Africa and its peoples) the very vast majority of so-called political refugees are just having you on.
I have lived and worked throughout Africa for 42 years and believe me (and I love Africa and its peoples) the very vast majority of so-called political refugees are just having you on.
Posted by: observer on 1:39pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Really ? so you made money off the back of apartheid ? That says it all doesn't it.
Really ? so you made money off the back of apartheid ? That says it all doesn't it.
Posted by: Martin B, Greenock on 1:43pm Sun 14 Oct 07
These people are not our problem.
A lot of them are economic migrants.
A lot of them have been in another "safe country" prior to coming here.
I object to having to having to go out and slog my guts out five days a week to pay for their upkeep.
These people are not our problem.
A lot of them are economic migrants.
A lot of them have been in another "safe country" prior to coming here.
I object to having to having to go out and slog my guts out five days a week to pay for their upkeep.
Posted by: Maurice Frank, South Queensferry on 2:17pm Sun 14 Oct 07
The new Commission for Equality and Human Rights came into force this month, with its remit covering any type of discrimination, no longer confined to specific defined types as were the institutions it replaces.
The best known of all consistent principles in international law, arrived at from its responses to Nazism and Imperialism and apartheid, is against treating any whole section of population in a way that strips away normal rights of citizenship and places them without the same access to everyday institutions of life as the rest of the population have.
What is being done to asylum seekers strips them of access to ordinary life in exactly this way, is such a population-scale crime. While I believe any immigration control at all is a crime of global apartheid, a fact stands even if you disagree with that. Even under the status quo, it is a fact that people who either can't be deported or are aware of facing danger by it, are population who our state is in charge of. So regardless of them not being British citizens, their discriminatory exclusion from viable life is a population-scale crime, committed on grounds of race.
It is the Sunday Herald's duty to refer it to the CEHR on these terms, then to monitor what the CEHR does with it at this level of international principles, whose upholding is the CEHR's duty and innate in its function.
The new Commission for Equality and Human Rights came into force this month, with its remit covering any type of discrimination, no longer confined to specific defined types as were the institutions it replaces.
The best known of all consistent principles in international law, arrived at from its responses to Nazism and Imperialism and apartheid, is against treating any whole section of population in a way that strips away normal rights of citizenship and places them without the same access to everyday institutions of life as the rest of the population have.
What is being done to asylum seekers strips them of access to ordinary life in exactly this way, is such a population-scale crime. While I believe any immigration control at all is a crime of global apartheid, a fact stands even if you disagree with that. Even under the status quo, it is a fact that people who either can't be deported or are aware of facing danger by it, are population who our state is in charge of. So regardless of them not being British citizens, their discriminatory exclusion from viable life is a population-scale crime, committed on grounds of race.
It is the Sunday Herald's duty to refer it to the CEHR on these terms, then to monitor what the CEHR does with it at this level of international principles, whose upholding is the CEHR's duty and innate in its function.
Posted by: Carol Hainey, Falkirk on 4:02pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Well done to the Sunday Herald for printing this.
It's nonsense that we must choose between helping the poorest indigenous white families, or helping refugees. We need to stand up to the system that creates obscene wealth for a few, at the expense of the rest of humanity.
Like many other white Scots, I lived as an economic migrant in other people's countries for seven years. What's wrong with that?
Scotland is actually pretty empty, due to forced destitution and forced emigration, so that landowners could profit from sheep, during the Clearances.
Well done to the Sunday Herald for printing this.
It's nonsense that we must choose between helping the poorest indigenous white families, or helping refugees. We need to stand up to the system that creates obscene wealth for a few, at the expense of the rest of humanity.
Like many other white Scots, I lived as an economic migrant in other people's countries for seven years. What's wrong with that?
Scotland is actually pretty empty, due to forced destitution and forced emigration, so that landowners could profit from sheep, during the Clearances.
Posted by: JJS, Glasgow on 4:24pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Great article I had no idea this was happening and feel disgusted that it is
Great article I had no idea this was happening and feel disgusted that it is
Posted by: Rab, East Kilbride on 4:42pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Genuine political refugees in fear for their lives should be given shelter, and all countries should take their quota.
Economic migrants should apply to come in through the normal channels and if not accepted stay at home. Failed refugees trying to con their way in, I suspect 99% of them, should be sent home.
We should do what we can to help less privileged countries through foreign aid programs. Sadly the despots running many of these countries ensure this aid is plundered before it reaches the people who need it.
Where you live is an accident of birth. Who said life was fair.
Genuine political refugees in fear for their lives should be given shelter, and all countries should take their quota.
Economic migrants should apply to come in through the normal channels and if not accepted stay at home. Failed refugees trying to con their way in, I suspect 99% of them, should be sent home.
We should do what we can to help less privileged countries through foreign aid programs. Sadly the despots running many of these countries ensure this aid is plundered before it reaches the people who need it.
Where you live is an accident of birth. Who said life was fair.
Posted by: mark, Lanarkshire on 4:45pm Sun 14 Oct 07
quit with the self-righteous indignation carol from falkirk - it is just boring. read the other posts properly.
i too am from a family of economic migrants. the issue is about people falsely claiming to be asylum seekers.
and i don't think the sunday herald has done a good job on this story at all - it starts with the assumption that the government has got it wrong about everyone it deems to be a false asylum seeker. i thought newspapers were supposed to strive for impartiality.
disappointing reporting.
quit with the self-righteous indignation carol from falkirk - it is just boring. read the other posts properly.
i too am from a family of economic migrants. the issue is about people falsely claiming to be asylum seekers.
and i don't think the sunday herald has done a good job on this story at all - it starts with the assumption that the government has got it wrong about everyone it deems to be a false asylum seeker. i thought newspapers were supposed to strive for impartiality.
disappointing reporting.
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 4:47pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Carlo[/bold] wrote:
My apologies RAD, I certainly did not mean to generalise or specifically scapegoat the ethnic group that you call 'Roma' That was not my intention The use of Gypsies is in the generic form....but I still stand by my statement regarding the abuse of our systems. East European vagants are not in the same league as genuine asylum seekers and business's such as 'The Big Issue' are taking us all for mugs by assuming they are....!!! Look at the streets in Glasgow? you only have to believe your own eyes.....[/quote] Sorry Seumas I addressed my apology to the wrong poster
Mea Culpa
Carlo wrote:
My apologies RAD, I certainly did not mean to generalise or specifically scapegoat the ethnic group that you call 'Roma' That was not my intention The use of Gypsies is in the generic form....but I still stand by my statement regarding the abuse of our systems. East European vagants are not in the same league as genuine asylum seekers and business's such as 'The Big Issue' are taking us all for mugs by assuming they are....!!! Look at the streets in Glasgow? you only have to believe your own eyes.....
Sorry Seumas I addressed my apology to the wrong poster
Mea Culpa
Posted by: mark, Lanarkshire on 4:47pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Rab[/bold] wrote:
Genuine political refugees in fear for their lives should be given shelter, and all countries should take their quota. Economic migrants should apply to come in through the normal channels and if not accepted stay at home. Failed refugees trying to con their way in, I suspect 99% of them, should be sent home. We should do what we can to help less privileged countries through foreign aid programs. Sadly the despots running many of these countries ensure this aid is plundered before it reaches the people who need it. Where you live is an accident of birth. Who said life was fair.[/quote] [bold]EXACTLY!![/bold]
Rab wrote:
Genuine political refugees in fear for their lives should be given shelter, and all countries should take their quota. Economic migrants should apply to come in through the normal channels and if not accepted stay at home. Failed refugees trying to con their way in, I suspect 99% of them, should be sent home. We should do what we can to help less privileged countries through foreign aid programs. Sadly the despots running many of these countries ensure this aid is plundered before it reaches the people who need it. Where you live is an accident of birth. Who said life was fair.
EXACTLY!! Posted by: Exiled Scot on 4:51pm Sun 14 Oct 07
The scandal is that these people are allowed into the country in the first place. No economic migrants and no asylum seekers -people who travel all the way from Africa to play us for mugs!
[bold]GET THEM ALL OUT![/bold]
The scandal is that these people are allowed into the country in the first place. No economic migrants and no asylum seekers -people who travel all the way from Africa to play us for mugs!
GET THEM ALL OUT! Posted by: Seumas, irvine on 5:38pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Apology graciously accepted Carlo. The decision to refuse the latest E.U. accession states to work within the workers registration scheme applied to the previous 10 states has exacerbated the problem you speak about.Either these countries are within the E. U or not ,this "betwixt and between" serves no one well.Many of these posts as usual show the total dislike of anyone coming here either legitimate migrant workers or refugees.Many Scots I know have moved over to Slovakia and Czech republic to work within the terms of the E.U. protocols on free movement.I don't like the use of the term "gypsy" as not only is it used in the generic sense but usually as a term of abuse.
Apology graciously accepted Carlo. The decision to refuse the latest E.U. accession states to work within the workers registration scheme applied to the previous 10 states has exacerbated the problem you speak about.Either these countries are within the E. U or not ,this "betwixt and between" serves no one well.Many of these posts as usual show the total dislike of anyone coming here either legitimate migrant workers or refugees.Many Scots I know have moved over to Slovakia and Czech republic to work within the terms of the E.U. protocols on free movement.I don't like the use of the term "gypsy" as not only is it used in the generic sense but usually as a term of abuse.
Posted by: Glenn Kerr, Mexico City on 5:55pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Well, it just goes to show that you don´t necessarily have to be a reader of the Sun or the Daily Record to be a ranting cliché-drenched xenophobe...it´s utterly breathtaking (and laughable at times) to read some of these comments - and so bloody sad that so many people have their heads firmly stuck up their own ar*es... mais plus ça change...
Well, it just goes to show that you don´t necessarily have to be a reader of the Sun or the Daily Record to be a ranting cliché-drenched xenophobe...it´s utterly breathtaking (and laughable at times) to read some of these comments - and so bloody sad that so many people have their heads firmly stuck up their own ar*es... mais plus ça change...
Posted by: Alex. on 5:57pm Sun 14 Oct 07
How many countries do these people pass through to reach the UK. Refuge is meant to be sought in the first safe haven. The UK is a long way from Eritrea etc. If the reporter, Neil Mackay, is so concerned how may of these destitute people are sleeping on his floors?
How many countries do these people pass through to reach the UK. Refuge is meant to be sought in the first safe haven. The UK is a long way from Eritrea etc. If the reporter, Neil Mackay, is so concerned how may of these destitute people are sleeping on his floors?
Posted by: Dave, Maryhill, Glasgow on 6:27pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Yes, who on earth would want to seek sanctuary in a country like this. Or perhaps, and hopefully, it is just a strange aspect of Scottish 'quality' newspapers that their comments sections are such havens for stupid little bigots. Fortunately, the reputation of this country still stands up abroad. In the Balkans, for example. Or perhaps that's unfortunately for those who come here. And RAD, what's this about?
While have every sympathy with the plight of refugees/asylum seekers - thought that asylum law meant seeking refuge in the nearest state?
Granted those surrounding Eritrea might not necessarily be the safest, but making it all the way to Glasgow?
Also, given the end of the civil war etc - Eritrea too is surely safer than it has been in some time - perhaps the key to the case here is that the woman has epilepsy?
Do you have a problem with epileptics too???
Yes, who on earth would want to seek sanctuary in a country like this. Or perhaps, and hopefully, it is just a strange aspect of Scottish 'quality' newspapers that their comments sections are such havens for stupid little bigots. Fortunately, the reputation of this country still stands up abroad. In the Balkans, for example. Or perhaps that's unfortunately for those who come here. And RAD, what's this about?
While have every sympathy with the plight of refugees/asylum seekers - thought that asylum law meant seeking refuge in the nearest state?
Granted those surrounding Eritrea might not necessarily be the safest, but making it all the way to Glasgow?
Also, given the end of the civil war etc - Eritrea too is surely safer than it has been in some time - perhaps the key to the case here is that the woman has epilepsy?
Do you have a problem with epileptics too???
Posted by: lass, glasgow on 7:22pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Glenn Kerr[/bold] wrote:
Well, it just goes to show that you don´t necessarily have to be a reader of the Sun or the Daily Record to be a ranting cliché-drenched xenophobe...it´s utterly breathtaking (and laughable at times) to read some of these comments - and so bloody sad that so many people have their heads firmly stuck up their own ar*es... mais plus ça change... [/quote] ah, glen, in mexico city - of course, the perfect vantage point from where to comment astutely on what is currently happening in scotland.
but, over and above that, it is laughable, in fact, to watch YOU spout out woolly comments and insults about this issue ... without contributing any real insight. what a sad boy you are.
Glenn Kerr wrote:
Well, it just goes to show that you don´t necessarily have to be a reader of the Sun or the Daily Record to be a ranting cliché-drenched xenophobe...it´s utterly breathtaking (and laughable at times) to read some of these comments - and so bloody sad that so many people have their heads firmly stuck up their own ar*es... mais plus ça change...
ah, glen, in mexico city - of course, the perfect vantage point from where to comment astutely on what is currently happening in scotland.
but, over and above that, it is laughable, in fact, to watch YOU spout out woolly comments and insults about this issue ... without contributing any real insight. what a sad boy you are.
Posted by: heavy, Glasgow on 8:36pm Sun 14 Oct 07
There are very few who understand the logic of what is happening in Scotland asylum system .The brainwashing that sees condemnation of our brothers and sisters that are ALL classed as scroungers shows how deeply our country has changed since the days of Maggie Thatcher that turned Scotland into a dog eat dog society and hasn't changed much going by the comments.
Once you understand how our legal system operates you will realise that there are lawyers applying for huge legal aid fees defending asylum seekers rights.That is ONE reason for allowing them across the border.Our group resent the fact we have all been tax payers yet have been unable to get legal aid for our own legal battles with limited resources that go were the legal aid board decide those resources are spent and were Scottish lawyers decide what cases they want to fight.
It seems the Law Society of Scotland and the Legal Aid board see the protection of the rights of foreigners a higher priority than Scotlands own people.Though we do understand that everyone needs some element of protection despite lack of resources.
Also our legal system is turning more asylum seekers into serial criminals by leaving them to rot on the streets of Scotland.They then will have to have access to more legal aid lawyers to defend them in court after they are FORCED into crime to survive .
At all levels of Scotland there are individuals using sharp practices to fleece the system under the guise of assisting asylum seekers.
Anger should be vented at the authorities that allow so many past our strict customs KNOWING these people can be used as cheap labour,legal aid claimants ,prostitution,and a myriad of other money making ploys Scottish legal parasites can get up to under the guise of assisting their asylum status.
They do not give a **** about asylum seekers only their bank accounts that are coining it in from the legal aid forms that asylum seekers cases generate.
With regards the cold and callous way many are being thrown onto the streets .Our group are some of the many Scottish citizens ,never mind asylum seekers ,that have been thrown onto the streets when our homes have been stolen by the criminal collusion of the same legal parasites that are destroying the lives of many decent families and their children.That is on the back of tyranny that ALL MSP's at the Scottish Parliament have turned a blind eye to.
That is despite massive efforts made by victims to force them to do something about a Scotland that is ruthlessly treating everyone dragged into civil law.Something the asylum system ensures and makes work for the judicial and legal dynasties that require a steady stream of victims to keep them all employed with the vast wealth they create from their paper shuffling .That is what is ruining the Scottish economy creating NOTHING materially but draining this country of VAST resources,far more than the many asylum seekers that are castigated for the failures of our whole legal process.
If Scotland can get figures for the cost of the asylum system ,the vast bulk of the moneys will have gone on legal fees charged by lawyers using the asylum system for their own financial advantage and why you see so many of them publicly supporting the present system.It is a lucrative trade and should be classed as people trafficking and no different from the prostitution of these foreigners rights.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR CHILD,HOME,LAND OR BUSINESS STOLEN WITHOUT A JURY DECISION.END SCOTLAND'S SECRETIVE STAR CHAMBER CIVIL COURTS.
There are very few who understand the logic of what is happening in Scotland asylum system .The brainwashing that sees condemnation of our brothers and sisters that are ALL classed as scroungers shows how deeply our country has changed since the days of Maggie Thatcher that turned Scotland into a dog eat dog society and hasn't changed much going by the comments.
Once you understand how our legal system operates you will realise that there are lawyers applying for huge legal aid fees defending asylum seekers rights.That is ONE reason for allowing them across the border.Our group resent the fact we have all been tax payers yet have been unable to get legal aid for our own legal battles with limited resources that go were the legal aid board decide those resources are spent and were Scottish lawyers decide what cases they want to fight.
It seems the Law Society of Scotland and the Legal Aid board see the protection of the rights of foreigners a higher priority than Scotlands own people.Though we do understand that everyone needs some element of protection despite lack of resources.
Also our legal system is turning more asylum seekers into serial criminals by leaving them to rot on the streets of Scotland.They then will have to have access to more legal aid lawyers to defend them in court after they are FORCED into crime to survive .
At all levels of Scotland there are individuals using sharp practices to fleece the system under the guise of assisting asylum seekers.
Anger should be vented at the authorities that allow so many past our strict customs KNOWING these people can be used as cheap labour,legal aid claimants ,prostitution,and a myriad of other money making ploys Scottish legal parasites can get up to under the guise of assisting their asylum status.
They do not give a **** about asylum seekers only their bank accounts that are coining it in from the legal aid forms that asylum seekers cases generate.
With regards the cold and callous way many are being thrown onto the streets .Our group are some of the many Scottish citizens ,never mind asylum seekers ,that have been thrown onto the streets when our homes have been stolen by the criminal collusion of the same legal parasites that are destroying the lives of many decent families and their children.That is on the back of tyranny that ALL MSP's at the Scottish Parliament have turned a blind eye to.
That is despite massive efforts made by victims to force them to do something about a Scotland that is ruthlessly treating everyone dragged into civil law.Something the asylum system ensures and makes work for the judicial and legal dynasties that require a steady stream of victims to keep them all employed with the vast wealth they create from their paper shuffling .That is what is ruining the Scottish economy creating NOTHING materially but draining this country of VAST resources,far more than the many asylum seekers that are castigated for the failures of our whole legal process.
If Scotland can get figures for the cost of the asylum system ,the vast bulk of the moneys will have gone on legal fees charged by lawyers using the asylum system for their own financial advantage and why you see so many of them publicly supporting the present system.It is a lucrative trade and should be classed as people trafficking and no different from the prostitution of these foreigners rights.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR CHILD,HOME,LAND OR BUSINESS STOLEN WITHOUT A JURY DECISION.END SCOTLAND'S SECRETIVE STAR CHAMBER CIVIL COURTS.
Posted by: David, East Kilbride on 9:07pm Sun 14 Oct 07
It saddens me that this topic has had such a negative backlash regards refugees, immigrants whatever..
Many writing such derogatory remarks might give a little thought to where their ancestors came from or had to go.. Survivors may not like to delve into family history that may find tragedy.
I as a Scottish National welcome all who come to my country. No matter the colour or religion..
Many wish to start fresh and educate themselves and families and work for a living.
We can look at street corners and see some of our youth who have had that chance throwing it all away.. No use for a chain gang.
Who would want to come to Scotland if they read what sickness has been written on this topic.
It saddens me that this topic has had such a negative backlash regards refugees, immigrants whatever..
Many writing such derogatory remarks might give a little thought to where their ancestors came from or had to go.. Survivors may not like to delve into family history that may find tragedy.
I as a Scottish National welcome all who come to my country. No matter the colour or religion..
Many wish to start fresh and educate themselves and families and work for a living.
We can look at street corners and see some of our youth who have had that chance throwing it all away.. No use for a chain gang.
Who would want to come to Scotland if they read what sickness has been written on this topic.
Posted by: Gordon, Glasgow on 9:32pm Sun 14 Oct 07
We have recently returned from abroad with our family to live in the Scotland my wife is African and she has met a few people from her country who have come here and claimed asylum or refugee status. We own our own house we have a sustainable financial situation and I always maintained my social security contrbutions everything is ok, wrong,they want to throw her out of the country because of a discrepency in the class of visa she has, this would cause havoc with our family life. What we want to know is why indigenous people cannot get the same rights as a person who is here illegaly. I have written to the Home Office on the matter of our family's civil rights under the EU Charter of Rights and the silence is deafening; so all you good people who support this wave of modern day pirates who have invaded should think again. Just as a matter of interest where have all these well informed commentators been? they obviously have never lived in Africa,Middle East or Asia I would class them as long distance experts. I have lived and worked in these areas and South America so good commentators go and exprience the people and places before you offer such ill informed opinions.
We have recently returned from abroad with our family to live in the Scotland my wife is African and she has met a few people from her country who have come here and claimed asylum or refugee status. We own our own house we have a sustainable financial situation and I always maintained my social security contrbutions everything is ok, wrong,they want to throw her out of the country because of a discrepency in the class of visa she has, this would cause havoc with our family life. What we want to know is why indigenous people cannot get the same rights as a person who is here illegaly. I have written to the Home Office on the matter of our family's civil rights under the EU Charter of Rights and the silence is deafening; so all you good people who support this wave of modern day pirates who have invaded should think again. Just as a matter of interest where have all these well informed commentators been? they obviously have never lived in Africa,Middle East or Asia I would class them as long distance experts. I have lived and worked in these areas and South America so good commentators go and exprience the people and places before you offer such ill informed opinions.
Posted by: BLOCKEM, Glasgow on 10:08pm Sun 14 Oct 07
‘‘[bold]bold[/bold] Government policy is putting failed asylum seekers on the streets and into a limbo existence of despair[bold]bold[/bold] ’’
This is a deliberate slanderous lie put about by asylum supporters to vilify our Government and prevent them from deporting LEGALLY FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS. David Reilly and Robina Qureshi, both of tax-funded charity Positive Action in Housing have previously used this lie against our Government. Sally Daghlian of the Scottish Refugee Council has used this same vilification in other articles. The real truth is - our Government‘s policy has led to the squandering of ££££billions on asylum seekers and refugees in Britain.
‘‘Lidya Ghebrehiwet’’, ‘‘Rachel’’ and ‘‘Quin Chen’’ and thousands of other FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS have been legally informed that they have no legal right to be in Glasgow or Britain. Their cases to stay in Britain have been heard and judged that their claims are a pack of lies. Lidya Ghebrehiwet’, Rachel’ and ‘Quin Chen et al are proven liars and FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS and now illegal immigrants. They refuse point blank to leave Glasgow and Britain. Our Government will gladly return them to their own countries, all expenses paid by us. They choose to ‘‘take to the streets’’. More likely, the absconding illegal immigrants are being hidden by the support groups and neighbours (obstruction of our immigration officers from carrying out their legal assignments).
Glasgow City Council accommodated these asylum seekers in our City for a payment of £250, 000, 000 (sic) of British taxpayers’ money. When these asylum seekers are judged to have no right to stay here, our city councillors make no attempt to remove them from Glasgow. They are too frightened to become involved. It‘s time our Government, Home Office and city councillors were removing these freeloading, illegal asylum seekers. Stop funding Positive Action in Housing and dismiss Sally Daghlian. Arrest the asylum supporters who obstruct our immigration officers. Remove the FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS (some four and half thousand in Glasgow) en masse out of Glasgow, Scotland and Britain. We owe them nothing - they are proven liars and freeloaders.
‘‘ Government policy is putting failed asylum seekers on the streets and into a limbo existence of despair ’’
This is a deliberate slanderous lie put about by asylum supporters to vilify our Government and prevent them from deporting LEGALLY FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS. David Reilly and Robina Qureshi, both of tax-funded charity Positive Action in Housing have previously used this lie against our Government. Sally Daghlian of the Scottish Refugee Council has used this same vilification in other articles. The real truth is - our Government‘s policy has led to the squandering of ££££billions on asylum seekers and refugees in Britain.
‘‘Lidya Ghebrehiwet’’, ‘‘Rachel’’ and ‘‘Quin Chen’’ and thousands of other FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS have been legally informed that they have no legal right to be in Glasgow or Britain. Their cases to stay in Britain have been heard and judged that their claims are a pack of lies. Lidya Ghebrehiwet’, Rachel’ and ‘Quin Chen et al are proven liars and FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS and now illegal immigrants. They refuse point blank to leave Glasgow and Britain. Our Government will gladly return them to their own countries, all expenses paid by us. They choose to ‘‘take to the streets’’. More likely, the absconding illegal immigrants are being hidden by the support groups and neighbours (obstruction of our immigration officers from carrying out their legal assignments).
Glasgow City Council accommodated these asylum seekers in our City for a payment of £250, 000, 000 (sic) of British taxpayers’ money. When these asylum seekers are judged to have no right to stay here, our city councillors make no attempt to remove them from Glasgow. They are too frightened to become involved. It‘s time our Government, Home Office and city councillors were removing these freeloading, illegal asylum seekers. Stop funding Positive Action in Housing and dismiss Sally Daghlian. Arrest the asylum supporters who obstruct our immigration officers. Remove the FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS (some four and half thousand in Glasgow) en masse out of Glasgow, Scotland and Britain. We owe them nothing - they are proven liars and freeloaders.
Posted by: sense, Glasgow on 2:23am Mon 15 Oct 07
"they are proven liars and freeloaders."
Not believing someone's story does not make them a liar. Do you know how these decisions were made?
Most if not all are made under strain, without proper knowledge of the case or access to translated documents.
You are wrong BLOCK THEM to demand the removal of anyone.
"they are proven liars and freeloaders."
Not believing someone's story does not make them a liar. Do you know how these decisions were made?
Most if not all are made under strain, without proper knowledge of the case or access to translated documents.
You are wrong BLOCK THEM to demand the removal of anyone.
Posted by: Paul Braterman, Glasgow on 10:03am Mon 15 Oct 07
If your story about "Rachel" is accurate, it is possible for a human rights campaigner, who has been attacked and left for dead by Mugabe's thugs, whose house has been destroyed and whose husband has been killed, and who would incidentally be a valuable addition to the workforce, to be denied asylum. If, despite all this, "Rachel" does not satisfy the criteria for asylum, something is very wrong with the criteria, leading to the horrendous results that you describe.
I for one would welcome a more in-depth report about how the critical decisions are made.
If your story about "Rachel" is accurate, it is possible for a human rights campaigner, who has been attacked and left for dead by Mugabe's thugs, whose house has been destroyed and whose husband has been killed, and who would incidentally be a valuable addition to the workforce, to be denied asylum. If, despite all this, "Rachel" does not satisfy the criteria for asylum, something is very wrong with the criteria, leading to the horrendous results that you describe.
I for one would welcome a more in-depth report about how the critical decisions are made.
Posted by: Raul, London on 11:24am Mon 15 Oct 07
These asylum seekers or economic migrants or whoever they are, they have certainly made a terrible decision in their lives to come and live anywhere in Europe, including Scotland. There is no such thing as compassion or remorse for other fellow human beings in this society. I believe it's a genetic thing. You only have to look at the 'beautiful' not so long ago history of this land. Land of mass murders of jews, gypsies, pogroms of all kinds, endless persecutions of weak and vulnerable sections of society, plunder of other nations and slavery of people. For all the riches and wealth that glimmer,how can anyone in their right mind claim 'asylum' and expect to live in such a society, this generation or next? It's like living amongst no1 thieves and bandits of the world! Economic migrants, let me tell you this,these theives of the world will always guard their loot very well. There is no point in trying to mug a mugger. You only get yourself hurt. Think of alternative arrangements to live a life of dignity and amongst your own kind as God almighty expected you to be when he created you.
These asylum seekers or economic migrants or whoever they are, they have certainly made a terrible decision in their lives to come and live anywhere in Europe, including Scotland. There is no such thing as compassion or remorse for other fellow human beings in this society. I believe it's a genetic thing. You only have to look at the 'beautiful' not so long ago history of this land. Land of mass murders of jews, gypsies, pogroms of all kinds, endless persecutions of weak and vulnerable sections of society, plunder of other nations and slavery of people. For all the riches and wealth that glimmer,how can anyone in their right mind claim 'asylum' and expect to live in such a society, this generation or next? It's like living amongst no1 thieves and bandits of the world! Economic migrants, let me tell you this,these theives of the world will always guard their loot very well. There is no point in trying to mug a mugger. You only get yourself hurt. Think of alternative arrangements to live a life of dignity and amongst your own kind as God almighty expected you to be when he created you.
Posted by: BLOCKEM, Glasgow on 12:36pm Mon 15 Oct 07
sense, Glasgow, posted:- "they are proven liars and freeloaders." Not believing someone's story does not make them a liar. Do you know how these decisions were made? Most if not all are made under strain, without proper knowledge of the case or access to translated documents. You are wrong BLOCK THEM to demand the removal of anyone.’’
You ask:- ‘‘Do you know how these decisions were made?’’ Yes, I know ‘‘how these qualified decisions were made’’. The decisions were made in our legal courts. The asylum seekers were legally represented, at more than one hearing, by lawyers (paid for by us). Their claims and cases to remain in Britain were listened to by judges and a decision was taken that they had no legal right to stay in Britain. They are proven liars who have been falsely claiming all benefits from us for years, ie, freeloaders. These decisions were made in our courts of law by our judges. the laws of this land must be upheld.
Problem is, we cannot or will not carry out the sentence. We do not deport them. the lying, freeloading FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS refuse to leave Britain.
I am right to demand that the laws of our courts be carried out and every FAILED ASYLUM SEEKER be removed. If you wish to believe a liar’s story, that is your personal decision but it must not alter the legal decisions of our courts.
sense, Glasgow, posted:- "they are proven liars and freeloaders." Not believing someone's story does not make them a liar. Do you know how these decisions were made? Most if not all are made under strain, without proper knowledge of the case or access to translated documents. You are wrong BLOCK THEM to demand the removal of anyone.’’
You ask:- ‘‘Do you know how these decisions were made?’’ Yes, I know ‘‘how these qualified decisions were made’’. The decisions were made in our legal courts. The asylum seekers were legally represented, at more than one hearing, by lawyers (paid for by us). Their claims and cases to remain in Britain were listened to by judges and a decision was taken that they had no legal right to stay in Britain. They are proven liars who have been falsely claiming all benefits from us for years, ie, freeloaders. These decisions were made in our courts of law by our judges. the laws of this land must be upheld.
Problem is, we cannot or will not carry out the sentence. We do not deport them. the lying, freeloading FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS refuse to leave Britain.