Environment fears could block Trident expansion PLANS TO refurbish the Clyde naval bases to accommodate a replacement for the Trident nuclear weapons system could be stymied by Scottish ministers, according to an internal memo from the Ministry of Defence (MoD).
A new dry dock for servicing nuclear submarines would require planning permission, while other developments would be subject to a raft of pollution controls. These are all the responsibility of the Scottish government, not Westminster.
On October 22, Scottish Nationalist ministers are holding a summit in Glasgow aimed at identifying ways of preventing the UK government from going ahead with a replacement for Trident. A new weapons system was agreed by the former prime minister, Tony Blair, and backed by the House of Commons in March.
But an MoD email from June 25, released under freedom of information law, makes it clear there are a series of potential barriers to any Trident developments at the Faslane and Coulport bases, near Helensburgh.
The email summarises the outcome of a meeting with the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (Sepa) to discuss difficulties that might arise with the refurbishment of the bases. "Any future requirement for a dry dock could present problems," it says.
Such a major development is almost certain to require planning permission from the local authority, and its construction and use would be subject to pollution controls administered by Sepa. In both cases Scottish ministers would have the ultimate power to say yes or no.
A new dry dock may be needed because the current shiplift may not meet future safety requirements. In 2001, consultants said it was only guaranteed to be safe up to 2011.
The MoD email also points out Scotland has other powers over activities that might pollute the Firth of Clyde, including increased sewage discharges. It adds: "Contaminated land could be an issue at Clyde and would need to be carefully considered if a new development or extensive refurbishment were required."
The Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, which obtained the email from the MoD, was fascinated to learn that a new dry dock was under consideration.
"The existing shiplift has been fraught with problems and only has safety clearance for the next four years," said SCND co-ordinator, John Ainslie. "A new dry dock would be a major development. It would need planning permission and an Environmental Impact Assessment. The Scottish government could use their planning power to stop its construction.
"This is another way that Holyrood can halt Whitehall's plan to base weapons of mass destruction on the Clyde for the next 50 years."
Sepa confirmed that any major development at Faslane or Coulport would require planning permission, though it could not say whether a dry dock was planned. "Sepa does regulate Faslane for a variety of matters, including water pollution and abstraction," said a Sepa spokeswoman.
"If the decision was made to develop Faslane, the MoD would need to apply to Sepa for the appropriate authorisations to carry out the works. Sepa would consider any applications in line with the regulation requirements."
The MoD stressed that there were "currently no plans" to construct a dry dock at the Clyde naval bases.
It said that, in line with normal departmental procedures, the MoD was considering a range of environmental issues associated with Trident. It had engaged with a number of external agencies in the UK including Sepa and the Scottish government.
A spokesman for the Scottish government declined to comment. The ministerial code prevented ministers from doing or saying anything that might prejudice the planning process, he pointed out.
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Posted by: Scamp on 11:12pm Sat 13 Oct 07
Wow... I'd love to be a member of the Faslane Community Council when this one comes up consultation!
Wow... I'd love to be a member of the Faslane Community Council when this one comes up consultation!
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:20pm Sat 13 Oct 07
It has never been proposed to build a dry dock at Faslane - Trident and Polaris boats dry dock at Devonport and prior to that Rosyth.
Planning decisions can be called in. I can't see scaremongering from environmentalists and the left wing, foreign dominated CND lobby stopping nuclear armed submarines on the Clyde and besides MOD installation have exemptions
It has never been proposed to build a dry dock at Faslane - Trident and Polaris boats dry dock at Devonport and prior to that Rosyth.
Planning decisions can be called in. I can't see scaremongering from environmentalists and the left wing, foreign dominated CND lobby stopping nuclear armed submarines on the Clyde and besides MOD installation have exemptions
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:18am Sun 14 Oct 07
Brill! Lets banish these terror weapons - only promoted by genocidal maniacs and cretins from Bearsden - once and for all from Scotland.
Think this is another one of those " dreadfully populist" motions so decried by
NEW LABOUR lunatics and right wing scumbags
opposed to the new Scots in Government
Brill! Lets banish these terror weapons - only promoted by genocidal maniacs and cretins from Bearsden - once and for all from Scotland.
Think this is another one of those " dreadfully populist" motions so decried by
NEW LABOUR lunatics and right wing scumbags
opposed to the new Scots in Government
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 6:40am Sun 14 Oct 07
There's a case (which the LibDems have made) for maintaining this tried and tested nuclear deterrent rather than expensively expanding its fire power (against who?).
The United Nations was set-up to keep the status quo a few more years as the brit empire crumbled.
The status quo was untenable, power and influence has shifted, yet the UN seems to be the public place where there will be agreed mutual nuclear disarmement and bans on chemical and bio-warfare.
There's a case (which the LibDems have made) for maintaining this tried and tested nuclear deterrent rather than expensively expanding its fire power (against who?).
The United Nations was set-up to keep the status quo a few more years as the brit empire crumbled.
The status quo was untenable, power and influence has shifted, yet the UN seems to be the public place where there will be agreed mutual nuclear disarmement and bans on chemical and bio-warfare.
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 6:44am Sun 14 Oct 07
Colin B
On the contrary Colin!....the MOD do [bold]NOT[/bold] have any exemptions were planning and environmental concerns are involved...in fact and practice they are more stringent......the only exception being that a majority of the design and layout is not in the public domain......so please please only speak of that which you profess to know when you are in possession of the [bold]FACTS[/bold] .....
Ciao
Colin B
On the contrary Colin!....the MOD do
NOT have any exemptions were planning and environmental concerns are involved...in fact and practice they are more stringent......the only exception being that a majority of the design and layout is not in the public domain......so please please only speak of that which you profess to know when you are in possession of the
FACTS .....
Ciao
Posted by: big jake on 9:46am Sun 14 Oct 07
We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
Posted by: Charles, Edinburgh on 9:48am Sun 14 Oct 07
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?
Posted by: big jakey on 9:50am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Charles[/bold] wrote:
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?[/quote] Charles, hear hear son
Charles wrote:
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?
Charles, hear hear son
Posted by: RETIRED....... but still switched on, Fed Up To The Teeth on 9:52am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Carlo[/bold] wrote:
Colin B On the contrary Colin!....the MOD do [bold]NOT[/bold] have any exemptions were planning and environmental concerns are involved...in fact and practice they are more stringent......the only exception being that a majority of the design and layout is not in the public domain......so please please only speak of that which you profess to know when you are in possession of the [bold]FACTS[/bold] ..... Ciao[/quote] CARLO
Nice one Sir.this........... dumbell has been spouting b*****ks to us on these posts for ages.........and if he ever DID only speak when he knew something of the matter in hand, we'd never hear from him again.
Doesn't that sound wonderful??
Burn down Bearsden !!
Carlo wrote:
Colin B On the contrary Colin!....the MOD do NOT have any exemptions were planning and environmental concerns are involved...in fact and practice they are more stringent......the only exception being that a majority of the design and layout is not in the public domain......so please please only speak of that which you profess to know when you are in possession of the FACTS ..... Ciao
CARLO
Nice one Sir.this........... dumbell has been spouting b*****ks to us on these posts for ages.........and if he ever DID only speak when he knew something of the matter in hand, we'd never hear from him again.
Doesn't that sound wonderful??
Burn down Bearsden !!
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 9:56am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]big jake[/bold] wrote:
We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting[/quote] BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover)
.....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon
s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed.
Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples.
big jake wrote:
We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover)
.....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon
s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed.
Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples.
Posted by: Jim on 10:08am Sun 14 Oct 07
This is a red herring being run by the MOD. There is already a drydock in Scotland built to take the Trident Submarines.
This is a red herring being run by the MOD. There is already a drydock in Scotland built to take the Trident Submarines.
Posted by: Boaby Swingin, oot the torpedo tube on 10:15am Sun 14 Oct 07
Leaning against the Faslane gates in her fisnets and red high-heels, searingly sexy **** Wendy Alexander said, "All the nice girls love a sailor, and they can steer their vessels into my dock anytime - if they don't, that's another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
Leaning against the Faslane gates in her fisnets and red high-heels, searingly sexy **** Wendy Alexander said, "All the nice girls love a sailor, and they can steer their vessels into my dock anytime - if they don't, that's another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
Posted by: Im not really here on 10:25am Sun 14 Oct 07
No doubt the Westminster Federal Government and all it's Scottish Labour drones will tell us how beneficial it would be to our economy.
Looks like some of the MoD email is giving Sir Ek a "heads-up" telling him how he can block them.
You have to remember, of course, the MoD "statement" just before the May 3 election, which turned out to be not from the MoD, but from the Westminster Federal Labour Government.
No doubt the Westminster Federal Government and all it's Scottish Labour drones will tell us how beneficial it would be to our economy.
Looks like some of the MoD email is giving Sir Ek a "heads-up" telling him how he can block them.
You have to remember, of course, the MoD "statement" just before the May 3 election, which turned out to be not from the MoD, but from the Westminster Federal Labour Government.
Posted by: ColinB, Bearsden on 10:40am Sun 14 Oct 07
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law.
See the statutory references below:
"In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ...
www.scotland.gov.uk/
concordats/mod-00.as
p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages
The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... "
and there are many others I could cite.
I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you.
Colin
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law.
See the statutory references below:
"In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ...
www.scotland.gov.uk/
concordats/mod-00.as
p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages
The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... "
and there are many others I could cite.
I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you.
Colin
Posted by: big bad jake on 10:58am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Rab The Man[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]big jake[/bold] wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting[/quote] BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples. [/quote] Rab, you keep believing that when your crying ito yer guardian travel supplement....
We could fire against any aggressor, i warn you the chinese are coming and any other number of wallopers
Rab The Man wrote:
big jake wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples.
Rab, you keep believing that when your crying ito yer guardian travel supplement....
We could fire against any aggressor, i warn you the chinese are coming and any other number of wallopers
Posted by: big jake on 11:00am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]ColinB[/bold] wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin [/quote] Gon yersel
ColinB wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin
Gon yersel
Posted by: Iain on 11:03am Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Charles[/bold] wrote:
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?[/quote] Maybe no one died in Europe since WW2 but what about all the proxy wars between the USA and the USSR fought out by nations they supplied weapons to (Vietnam, Korea, Iran/Iraq, et al)? What about all the fascist dictators whose rise to power was facilitated by the White House to block communist uprisings? The USSR probably never had any desire for conflict but in the post war period the US Government has been very keen on fostering a culture of paranoia to further its own global domination objectives. True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.
Charles wrote:
Does anyone know how many lives have been saved because of these so called terror weapons? Going to war is one of mans all time favourite pastimes - he's been doing it centuries. Take a look at the history books. But we haven't had a world war for quite sometime; there were two in the 20th Century - anyone know how many MILLIONS of people died in these wars? I am sure the Russians and Western countries would have gone head to head years ago if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapons. How many MILLIONS of people would have died in Europe if that had happened?
Maybe no one died in Europe since WW2 but what about all the proxy wars between the USA and the USSR fought out by nations they supplied weapons to (Vietnam, Korea, Iran/Iraq, et al)? What about all the fascist dictators whose rise to power was facilitated by the White House to block communist uprisings? The USSR probably never had any desire for conflict but in the post war period the US Government has been very keen on fostering a culture of paranoia to further its own global domination objectives. True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.
Posted by: Colin B, BEarsden on 11:27am Sun 14 Oct 07
Iain - deaths in war are still a fraction of those prior to Nuclear Weapons being the main deterent. Nuclear weapons are also cheaper and less instrusive than the huge conventional forces maintained until 1945.
The financial cost of World War II saw Britain replaced by the USA as the world's policeman and since Suez often having to follow the USA which has lead to emergence of other belligerent forces arguably including Islamic fundamentalism.
You can counter any argument with exceptions and symbolism but they will never reach the magnitude of humanity lost in 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.
Iain - deaths in war are still a fraction of those prior to Nuclear Weapons being the main deterent. Nuclear weapons are also cheaper and less instrusive than the huge conventional forces maintained until 1945.
The financial cost of World War II saw Britain replaced by the USA as the world's policeman and since Suez often having to follow the USA which has lead to emergence of other belligerent forces arguably including Islamic fundamentalism.
You can counter any argument with exceptions and symbolism but they will never reach the magnitude of humanity lost in 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.
Posted by: Conway on 11:31am Sun 14 Oct 07
If the UK goverment wants a replacement why not park the subs in the Thames?
which will never happen its called the union divadend.
If the UK goverment wants a replacement why not park the subs in the Thames?
which will never happen its called the union divadend.
Posted by: Charles, Edinburgh on 11:33am Sun 14 Oct 07
Iain: “True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.”
So are you suggesting that Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel should they be allowed to keep these weapons? The political stage can change very quickly and we need to be ready to protect our own way of life. Millions died because the world was powerless to stop Hitler from invading his neighbours. Do you suggest we go down that route again? There have been no world wars since 1945 - we will never stop the small wars, because it appears to be one of mans favourite pastimes (and I mean Man - not woman).
You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay.
Iain: “True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.”
So are you suggesting that Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel should they be allowed to keep these weapons? The political stage can change very quickly and we need to be ready to protect our own way of life. Millions died because the world was powerless to stop Hitler from invading his neighbours. Do you suggest we go down that route again? There have been no world wars since 1945 - we will never stop the small wars, because it appears to be one of mans favourite pastimes (and I mean Man - not woman).
You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay.
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 11:51am Sun 14 Oct 07
Charles, Edinburgh
"You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay".
True but you can get rid of them, indeed it is our legal duty to.
Charles, Edinburgh
"You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay".
True but you can get rid of them, indeed it is our legal duty to.
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 11:52am Sun 14 Oct 07
Charles, Edinburgh
"You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay".
True but you can get rid of them, indeed it is our legal duty to.
Charles, Edinburgh
"You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay".
True but you can get rid of them, indeed it is our legal duty to.
Posted by: MsJ, Glasgow on 11:52am Sun 14 Oct 07
Rob Edwards is clearly very out of touch with Scottish people on this one. There is a wee bit more than planning permission to worry about on the replacement for Trident! What a terrible article! How can something so important contain so much that is irrelevant and omit so much that is important.
Rob this isn't about the "nationalists" it is about people waking up, people of ALL political persuasions and none, on the subject of Trident, and the massive, obscene costs involved. And that's just one concern, there are many more.
Colin I wish the Herald would ban you from this forum. You aren't interested in even trying to have a civilised debate. You just like to put others down and wreck debates and you do it constantly. I think it's quite sad. But thankfully, you're in the minority, let's hope your PC packs in and we'll all get peace.
"Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant are they then, the dead in Iraq. Numbers don't matter, no? Drop in the ocean? People like you should be taken to places like Iraq and made to stay for a week! But you are like many, anything goes as long as you're ok and never mind those we kill, cos we're the West and we can do what we like! How depressing.
Rob Edwards is clearly very out of touch with Scottish people on this one. There is a wee bit more than planning permission to worry about on the replacement for Trident! What a terrible article! How can something so important contain so much that is irrelevant and omit so much that is important.
Rob this isn't about the "nationalists" it is about people waking up, people of ALL political persuasions and none, on the subject of Trident, and the massive, obscene costs involved. And that's just one concern, there are many more.
Colin I wish the Herald would ban you from this forum. You aren't interested in even trying to have a civilised debate. You just like to put others down and wreck debates and you do it constantly. I think it's quite sad. But thankfully, you're in the minority, let's hope your PC packs in and we'll all get peace.
"Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant are they then, the dead in Iraq. Numbers don't matter, no? Drop in the ocean? People like you should be taken to places like Iraq and made to stay for a week! But you are like many, anything goes as long as you're ok and never mind those we kill, cos we're the West and we can do what we like! How depressing.
Posted by: Jim, Irvine on 11:56am Sun 14 Oct 07
The Aldermaston Nuclear Experimental site is now run by Haliburton. There has been Newspaper Info. that the Trident missiles are being recalibrated;
I take it that means they are being sighted on
another country rather than Russia. Fox news
in America is beating the drum for a nuclear strike against Iran . Surely the Broon team are
not so stupid as to allow Scotland to be part of that `scheme `!
The Aldermaston Nuclear Experimental site is now run by Haliburton. There has been Newspaper Info. that the Trident missiles are being recalibrated;
I take it that means they are being sighted on
another country rather than Russia. Fox news
in America is beating the drum for a nuclear strike against Iran . Surely the Broon team are
not so stupid as to allow Scotland to be part of that `scheme `!
Posted by: MsJ, Glasgow on 12:01pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Charles India WAS stripped of it's access to nuclear weapons (late 90's I believe) only Bush backed down on that (early 2000's)in exchange for access to their airspace in order to reach Pakistan! Within days India was threatening to nuke Pakistan! And it's all about peace is it?
Charles India WAS stripped of it's access to nuclear weapons (late 90's I believe) only Bush backed down on that (early 2000's)in exchange for access to their airspace in order to reach Pakistan! Within days India was threatening to nuke Pakistan! And it's all about peace is it?
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 12:09pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Colin B
Thanks for that? "Ill informed pacifist appeaser" and you could deduce all that from my few short words??
Throughout my earlier career I was involved with the main design contractors for Coulport, the refurbishment of Devonport and various other MOD engineering projects, including Faslane.
I would also like to think that my previous statement was well informed and correct.....
By the way! the links that you have posted to back up your argument are both spurious and cherry picked it seems that you have left out that which does not support your barmy theory (tut tut)....try again...its like taking sweets from a baby
Colin B
Thanks for that? "Ill informed pacifist appeaser" and you could deduce all that from my few short words??
Throughout my earlier career I was involved with the main design contractors for Coulport, the refurbishment of Devonport and various other MOD engineering projects, including Faslane.
I would also like to think that my previous statement was well informed and correct.....
By the way! the links that you have posted to back up your argument are both spurious and cherry picked it seems that you have left out that which does not support your barmy theory (tut tut)....try again...its like taking sweets from a baby
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 12:13pm Sun 14 Oct 07
MsJ
You say I stifle/wreck debate yet you donlt state examples and you want me banned because you don't like what I state even when it's the law from a democracy.
You sound like Hitler or Stalin - just because you don't like what you see or hear does not mean it has to be banned. You should go and join your left wing herd if you donlt like opposition or freedom of speech. Likewise I have seen many flawed comments, either not supported by evidence or wild speculation in a lot of forums you post on but I donlt ask that you been banned- I ask that you be understood, explain, cite evidence in support or articulate yourself more effectively. This you have repeatedly failed to do or even attempt to do.
Incidentally your fellow supporter "Retired" above at 9.52am may have committed a crime of incitement re his rather emotional comment "Burn Down Bearsden" is that civilised?
I think you, Carlo and Retired types really need to consider carefully what you write before you hit that post button ( since "you are personally liable" and consider whether you are actually debating or merely agreeing with each other and restating the same emotion.
Best
Colin
MsJ
You say I stifle/wreck debate yet you donlt state examples and you want me banned because you don't like what I state even when it's the law from a democracy.
You sound like Hitler or Stalin - just because you don't like what you see or hear does not mean it has to be banned. You should go and join your left wing herd if you donlt like opposition or freedom of speech. Likewise I have seen many flawed comments, either not supported by evidence or wild speculation in a lot of forums you post on but I donlt ask that you been banned- I ask that you be understood, explain, cite evidence in support or articulate yourself more effectively. This you have repeatedly failed to do or even attempt to do.
Incidentally your fellow supporter "Retired" above at 9.52am may have committed a crime of incitement re his rather emotional comment "Burn Down Bearsden" is that civilised?
I think you, Carlo and Retired types really need to consider carefully what you write before you hit that post button ( since "you are personally liable" and consider whether you are actually debating or merely agreeing with each other and restating the same emotion.
Best
Colin
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:20pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Jim, Irvine: Those NEW LABOUR scumbags ARE that stupid. Lets remember this is an extremist
party to the far-right of the Conservaties.
Threy have already given their active support for CIA torture flights, criminalising asylum
seekers,attacks on the welfare of the sick and disabled, and illegal wars waged with illegal weapons!
Whats becoming clear is that no one with any notion of morality - or community - can vote for these animals. The Party of The SUN, Margaret Hilda Thatcher and Norman Tebbett
must become extict North of the border; for all our sakes!!
Jim, Irvine: Those NEW LABOUR scumbags ARE that stupid. Lets remember this is an extremist
party to the far-right of the Conservaties.
Threy have already given their active support for CIA torture flights, criminalising asylum
seekers,attacks on the welfare of the sick and disabled, and illegal wars waged with illegal weapons!
Whats becoming clear is that no one with any notion of morality - or community - can vote for these animals. The Party of The SUN, Margaret Hilda Thatcher and Norman Tebbett
must become extict North of the border; for all our sakes!!
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 12:27pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Jim, Ronald has a point -Blair went into Afghanisatan and Iraq asap on a falisfied dossier yet ten years of death and civil rights abuse in Burma and Zimbabwe ( which as formal colonial possessions we have some responsbility for creating) Brown still talks about not attending summits, travel bans.
He'll be using ASBOs on rapists and murderers next ( because they get a vote ) while using the forces to back Bush's conscience. Reagan followed Thatcher.
Jim, Ronald has a point -Blair went into Afghanisatan and Iraq asap on a falisfied dossier yet ten years of death and civil rights abuse in Burma and Zimbabwe ( which as formal colonial possessions we have some responsbility for creating) Brown still talks about not attending summits, travel bans.
He'll be using ASBOs on rapists and murderers next ( because they get a vote ) while using the forces to back Bush's conscience. Reagan followed Thatcher.
Posted by: maragdubh, lewis on 12:31pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Rab The Man[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]big jake[/bold] wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting[/quote] BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples. [/quote]
hear hear spot on
Rab The Man wrote:
big jake wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples.
hear hear spot on
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 12:38pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Carlo 12.09pm
Am sure you think a rapist or a murderer on trial can use as a defence the laws under which I'm charged are "cherry picked" and "spurious".
These were just two links at the top of the search engine from a government website.
At least be honest and admit that you either a)forgot, b) was in error or c) deliberately misrepresented, as to whetherwhether the MOD has exemptions from planning laws.
Best
Colin
Carlo 12.09pm
Am sure you think a rapist or a murderer on trial can use as a defence the laws under which I'm charged are "cherry picked" and "spurious".
These were just two links at the top of the search engine from a government website.
At least be honest and admit that you either a)forgot, b) was in error or c) deliberately misrepresented, as to whetherwhether the MOD has exemptions from planning laws.
Best
Colin
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glagsow on 12:43pm Sun 14 Oct 07
So if these sinister and dreadful WMDs are so useful at keeping the peace,why can't the Iranians have them?
In fact,we already have so many all over the world lets give them to Mugabe too.If every country has them we can blow ourselves to kingdom come!
So if these sinister and dreadful WMDs are so useful at keeping the peace,why can't the Iranians have them?
In fact,we already have so many all over the world lets give them to Mugabe too.If every country has them we can blow ourselves to kingdom come!
Posted by: RETIRED....... but still switched on, Fed Up To The Teeth on 12:44pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
MsJ You say I stifle/wreck debate yet you donlt state examples and you want me banned because you don't like what I state even when it's the law from a democracy. You sound like Hitler or Stalin - just because you don't like what you see or hear does not mean it has to be banned. You should go and join your left wing herd if you donlt like opposition or freedom of speech. Likewise I have seen many flawed comments, either not supported by evidence or wild speculation in a lot of forums you post on but I donlt ask that you been banned- I ask that you be understood, explain, cite evidence in support or articulate yourself more effectively. This you have repeatedly failed to do or even attempt to do. Incidentally your fellow supporter "Retired" above at 9.52am may have committed a crime of incitement re his rather emotional comment "Burn Down Bearsden" is that civilised? I think you, Carlo and Retired types really need to consider carefully what you write before you hit that post button ( since "you are personally liable" and consider whether you are actually debating or merely agreeing with each other and restating the same emotion. Best Colin [/quote] COLIN...........Plon
ker of the year !!
Crikey Mate.....you really DO take yerself seriously don't you....that Humour by-pass REALLY worked didn't it.
Are you JASON4QUEEN in drag????
"Charged with incitement to burn down Bearsden??"......now there IS a charge that Elish Angiolini would HAVE to ponder !!
Go on....cite me for incitement....I dare you....or are you embarrassed enough just reading back your earlier post??
You prove time and time again just what a TOTAL FUD you are...get back tae bed NOW, and if you can't stand the heat etc etc.
Colin B wrote:
MsJ You say I stifle/wreck debate yet you donlt state examples and you want me banned because you don't like what I state even when it's the law from a democracy. You sound like Hitler or Stalin - just because you don't like what you see or hear does not mean it has to be banned. You should go and join your left wing herd if you donlt like opposition or freedom of speech. Likewise I have seen many flawed comments, either not supported by evidence or wild speculation in a lot of forums you post on but I donlt ask that you been banned- I ask that you be understood, explain, cite evidence in support or articulate yourself more effectively. This you have repeatedly failed to do or even attempt to do. Incidentally your fellow supporter "Retired" above at 9.52am may have committed a crime of incitement re his rather emotional comment "Burn Down Bearsden" is that civilised? I think you, Carlo and Retired types really need to consider carefully what you write before you hit that post button ( since "you are personally liable" and consider whether you are actually debating or merely agreeing with each other and restating the same emotion. Best Colin
COLIN...........Plon
ker of the year !!
Crikey Mate.....you really DO take yerself seriously don't you....that Humour by-pass REALLY worked didn't it.
Are you JASON4QUEEN in drag????
"Charged with incitement to burn down Bearsden??"......now there IS a charge that Elish Angiolini would HAVE to ponder !!
Go on....cite me for incitement....I dare you....or are you embarrassed enough just reading back your earlier post??
You prove time and time again just what a TOTAL FUD you are...get back tae bed NOW, and if you can't stand the heat etc etc.
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 12:54pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]big bad jake[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Rab The Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]big jake[/bold] wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting[/quote] BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples. [/quote] Rab, you keep believing that when your crying ito yer guardian travel supplement.... We could fire against any aggressor, i warn you the chinese are coming and any other number of wallopers[/quote] BIG JAKE
Oh...you've put me off Chicken chow mein for life with your threatened Armageddon.
Jake... relax son.....we've managed to find a space for you in the Paranoia Palais aka The State Hospital, Carstairs !!
Have ALL these countries governments got it wrong too then?? The germans, italians, spaniards, dutch, danes, Norwegians, swedes, etc etc etc....they are ALL wrong...and YOU.......you BIG JAKE...are the enlightened one then??
Can you just talk us through your qualifications for being this self appointed know-it-all about all things nuclear???
Own a rowing boat maybe? Day out on the Waverley as a boy maybe?? ...or maybe yer granny was once frightened by a sailor???..I think we should be told........ oh wise one !!
big bad jake wrote:
Rab The Man wrote: big jake wrote: We need nuclear submarines in todays world where security cannot be taken on trust, the liberals and nambies would have us waving white hankies, the day will come again when we have to defend oursleves, let us not be left found wanting
BIG JAKE .........(Big Hangover) .....and against who pray, and under what circumstances might we fire these weapons??.....weapon s where the US still has the ultimate control, and doubtless decide against whom they'd be directed. Ain't it strange that almost all our economic competitors don't saddle themselves with the cost of this penis posing technique, but instaed get on with the business of making life better for their peoples rather than being threatening to OTHER peoples.
Rab, you keep believing that when your crying ito yer guardian travel supplement.... We could fire against any aggressor, i warn you the chinese are coming and any other number of wallopers
BIG JAKE
Oh...you've put me off Chicken chow mein for life with your threatened Armageddon.
Jake... relax son.....we've managed to find a space for you in the Paranoia Palais aka The State Hospital, Carstairs !!
Have ALL these countries governments got it wrong too then?? The germans, italians, spaniards, dutch, danes, Norwegians, swedes, etc etc etc....they are ALL wrong...and YOU.......you BIG JAKE...are the enlightened one then??
Can you just talk us through your qualifications for being this self appointed know-it-all about all things nuclear???
Own a rowing boat maybe? Day out on the Waverley as a boy maybe?? ...or maybe yer granny was once frightened by a sailor???..I think we should be told........ oh wise one !!
Posted by: Wee Dug, Alpha Male on 12:56pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]big jake[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]ColinB[/bold] wrote: Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin [/quote] Gon yersel[/quote] Are you two one and the same?? Yer jist clones/clowns one of the other !!
Baith numpties.
big jake wrote:
ColinB wrote: Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin
Gon yersel
Are you two one and the same?? Yer jist clones/clowns one of the other !!
Baith numpties.
Posted by: observer on 1:15pm Sun 14 Oct 07
This is the big one. The SNP can really make a point here and we all, by that I mean those of us with brain cells which excludes the likes of Colin and Jake, have to support them. No to Trident, this cuts across party lines. The fact is that the majority of MSP's are against Trident and the majority of Scottish MP's are also against it. This is a line in the sand and we all have to do our bit. Pacifist appeasers ? Yeah right it would have been you appeasing Hitler, not us.
This is the big one. The SNP can really make a point here and we all, by that I mean those of us with brain cells which excludes the likes of Colin and Jake, have to support them. No to Trident, this cuts across party lines. The fact is that the majority of MSP's are against Trident and the majority of Scottish MP's are also against it. This is a line in the sand and we all have to do our bit. Pacifist appeasers ? Yeah right it would have been you appeasing Hitler, not us.
Posted by: Iain on 1:34pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Iain - deaths in war are still a fraction of those prior to Nuclear Weapons being the main deterent. Nuclear weapons are also cheaper and less instrusive than the huge conventional forces maintained until 1945. The financial cost of World War II saw Britain replaced by the USA as the world's policeman and since Suez often having to follow the USA which has lead to emergence of other belligerent forces arguably including Islamic fundamentalism. You can counter any argument with exceptions and symbolism but they will never reach the magnitude of humanity lost in 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.[/quote] You're kind of mising the point in that so long as nuclear weapons exists, so too does the possibility that they will be used. All it would take is a fairly short period of political instability like the Cuban missile crisis or a realisation of the anecdotal suggestions that Bush has considered a nuclear strike on Iran but the consequences would remain for centuries.
Colin B wrote:
Iain - deaths in war are still a fraction of those prior to Nuclear Weapons being the main deterent. Nuclear weapons are also cheaper and less instrusive than the huge conventional forces maintained until 1945. The financial cost of World War II saw Britain replaced by the USA as the world's policeman and since Suez often having to follow the USA which has lead to emergence of other belligerent forces arguably including Islamic fundamentalism. You can counter any argument with exceptions and symbolism but they will never reach the magnitude of humanity lost in 1914-1918 and 1939-1945.
You're kind of mising the point in that so long as nuclear weapons exists, so too does the possibility that they will be used. All it would take is a fairly short period of political instability like the Cuban missile crisis or a realisation of the anecdotal suggestions that Bush has considered a nuclear strike on Iran but the consequences would remain for centuries.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:36pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Retired at 12.44
Don't worry about the Fiscal's letter old boy -there is satifaction enough from my being able to provoke another aggressive, ill considered, ill informed, emotional working class reaction such as your own.
Best
Retired at 12.44
Don't worry about the Fiscal's letter old boy -there is satifaction enough from my being able to provoke another aggressive, ill considered, ill informed, emotional working class reaction such as your own.
Best
Posted by: Iain on 1:36pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Charles[/bold] wrote:
Iain: “True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.” So are you suggesting that Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel should they be allowed to keep these weapons? The political stage can change very quickly and we need to be ready to protect our own way of life. Millions died because the world was powerless to stop Hitler from invading his neighbours. Do you suggest we go down that route again? There have been no world wars since 1945 - we will never stop the small wars, because it appears to be one of mans favourite pastimes (and I mean Man - not woman). You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay. [/quote] Strange that countries like Canada and New Zealand don't feel the need to build them then.
Charles wrote:
Iain: “True world peace will never be achieved before the USA is stripped of its illegal weapons of mass destruction.” So are you suggesting that Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel should they be allowed to keep these weapons? The political stage can change very quickly and we need to be ready to protect our own way of life. Millions died because the world was powerless to stop Hitler from invading his neighbours. Do you suggest we go down that route again? There have been no world wars since 1945 - we will never stop the small wars, because it appears to be one of mans favourite pastimes (and I mean Man - not woman). You can not un-invent the nuclear weapon – it is here to stay.
Strange that countries like Canada and New Zealand don't feel the need to build them then.
Posted by: Less Is More, On Defence on 1:39pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]observer[/bold] wrote:
This is the big one. The SNP can really make a point here and we all, by that I mean those of us with brain cells which excludes the likes of Colin and Jake, have to support them. No to Trident, this cuts across party lines. The fact is that the majority of MSP's are against Trident and the majority of Scottish MP's are also against it. This is a line in the sand and we all have to do our bit. Pacifist appeasers ? Yeah right it would have been you appeasing Hitler, not us. [/quote] OBSERVER
Quite right sir....glad to see that sanity has returned to these pages after a bout of Bearsden-itis from their local laughing stock..itsa bit rich being told you're an appeaser by cretins like these, who can't tell us against whom these weapons (originally designed to obliterate Russians) might NOW be directed. Pick a nation...any nation......READY...
.AIM......FIRE !!
observer wrote:
This is the big one. The SNP can really make a point here and we all, by that I mean those of us with brain cells which excludes the likes of Colin and Jake, have to support them. No to Trident, this cuts across party lines. The fact is that the majority of MSP's are against Trident and the majority of Scottish MP's are also against it. This is a line in the sand and we all have to do our bit. Pacifist appeasers ? Yeah right it would have been you appeasing Hitler, not us.
OBSERVER
Quite right sir....glad to see that sanity has returned to these pages after a bout of Bearsden-itis from their local laughing stock..itsa bit rich being told you're an appeaser by cretins like these, who can't tell us against whom these weapons (originally designed to obliterate Russians) might NOW be directed. Pick a nation...any nation......READY...
.AIM......FIRE !!
Posted by: RETIRED....... but still switched on, Fed Up To The Teeth on 1:46pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Retired at 12.44 Don't worry about the Fiscal's letter old boy -there is satifaction enough from my being able to provoke another aggressive, ill considered, ill informed, emotional working class reaction such as your own. Best[/quote] COLIN B
There is something wrong with being working class then Colin? It'll be the "working" bit that you don't like I'll warrant.
No,.....perhaps you don't. It would seem that you've got no class at all then Sir !!
Crikey......dontcha just love the working classes...they'll be wanting to drive a Lexus soon......aye, or horror of horrors.....even move to Bearsden !!
(I suspect they'd have done that already, but the word is that there is a mad lunatic running around with a keyboard that they haven't managed to get the cuffs on yet).
Enjoy what's left of your time away from Carstairs then Sir...(save you trying to keep up the payments on the Lexus...and the keyboard !!). .....but we ARE gonna catch you!!
Colin B wrote:
Retired at 12.44 Don't worry about the Fiscal's letter old boy -there is satifaction enough from my being able to provoke another aggressive, ill considered, ill informed, emotional working class reaction such as your own. Best
COLIN B
There is something wrong with being working class then Colin? It'll be the "working" bit that you don't like I'll warrant.
No,.....perhaps you don't. It would seem that you've got no class at all then Sir !!
Crikey......dontcha just love the working classes...they'll be wanting to drive a Lexus soon......aye, or horror of horrors.....even move to Bearsden !!
(I suspect they'd have done that already, but the word is that there is a mad lunatic running around with a keyboard that they haven't managed to get the cuffs on yet).
Enjoy what's left of your time away from Carstairs then Sir...(save you trying to keep up the payments on the Lexus...and the keyboard !!). .....but we ARE gonna catch you!!
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest fallout zone on 1:47pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Calm down dears, this is only a post.
Everyone - and I mean [italic]everyone[/italic] - contributing to these comments deserves to take two days off on full pay.
It is uplifting to learn that debate, and the freedom to debate, is alive and well and living here when it is stifled elsewhere.
So, whatever your political leanings, well done.
Calm down dears, this is only a post.
Everyone - and I mean
everyone - contributing to these comments deserves to take two days off on full pay.
It is uplifting to learn that debate, and the freedom to debate, is alive and well and living here when it is stifled elsewhere.
So, whatever your political leanings, well done.
Posted by: observer on 1:48pm Sun 14 Oct 07
ha ha yes less is more they dont even know who it is ! Are the Russians coming. or the Chinese ? Or the Iranians ? Hell maybe its Papa New Guinea or Easter Island ? They are so scared its actually quite tragic.
ha ha yes less is more they dont even know who it is ! Are the Russians coming. or the Chinese ? Or the Iranians ? Hell maybe its Papa New Guinea or Easter Island ? They are so scared its actually quite tragic.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:52pm Sun 14 Oct 07
At least Jake and I aren't part of the herd-think how dull it would be if we all agreed?
At least Jake and I aren't part of the herd-think how dull it would be if we all agreed?
Posted by: Carlo, Fort William on 2:32pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Colin B
Stop digging you are well and truly in it....all those who disagree with you are either 'ill informed pacifist appeasers' or 'working class'......you now have no credibility whatsoever...
Whats the B in Colin B for?? Bampot!!!
Begone you fool!!!
Colin B
Stop digging you are well and truly in it....all those who disagree with you are either 'ill informed pacifist appeasers' or 'working class'......you now have no credibility whatsoever...
Whats the B in Colin B for?? Bampot!!!
Begone you fool!!!
Posted by: Charles, Edinburgh on 4:37pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant MsJ: Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant are they then, the dead in Iraq. Numbers don't matter, no? Drop in the ocean? People like you should be taken to places like Iraq and made to stay for a week! But you are like many, anything goes as long as you're ok and never mind those we kill, cos we're the West and we can do what we like! How depressing.
Thanks for the offer – but I’ve already been in one war. Have you? - or do you simply think you know about war and all its horrors?
Clearly you haven’t understood what I have written. Maybe I need to simplify it for you. Nuclear Weapon = No Large Scale (World War). There how is that?
Nuclear weapons don’t stop small scale wars – we will continue to fight wars no matter what weapons we have to hand – but they make the big players think twice about their actions.
Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant MsJ: Small wars" are ok then Charles? Unimportant are they then, the dead in Iraq. Numbers don't matter, no? Drop in the ocean? People like you should be taken to places like Iraq and made to stay for a week! But you are like many, anything goes as long as you're ok and never mind those we kill, cos we're the West and we can do what we like! How depressing.
Thanks for the offer – but I’ve already been in one war. Have you? - or do you simply think you know about war and all its horrors?
Clearly you haven’t understood what I have written. Maybe I need to simplify it for you. Nuclear Weapon = No Large Scale (World War). There how is that?
Nuclear weapons don’t stop small scale wars – we will continue to fight wars no matter what weapons we have to hand – but they make the big players think twice about their actions.
Posted by: Kinghob on 4:40pm Sun 14 Oct 07
I hate nukes, and I dislike the muppets who believe that the idea of bombing men women and children from other countries is keeping the peace.
Labour are all over the shop on nukes, and I reckon that Scots (no 'appeasrers' or 'softies') like myself and others will tell the Westminster government to stick the new nukes they want in Scotland right up their jacksies, and we can use the money for something useful to mankind.
I am far from a pacifist, I would volunteer to ky jelly a nuke warhead and stick it up the wido butt of anybody who called me an 'appeaser'or other such nonsense.
Nukes are bad and are a total waste of money, and I am sure that we will find more and nore reasons and methods to prevent them coming back in a new form to Scotland.
I hate nukes, and I dislike the muppets who believe that the idea of bombing men women and children from other countries is keeping the peace.
Labour are all over the shop on nukes, and I reckon that Scots (no 'appeasrers' or 'softies') like myself and others will tell the Westminster government to stick the new nukes they want in Scotland right up their jacksies, and we can use the money for something useful to mankind.
I am far from a pacifist, I would volunteer to ky jelly a nuke warhead and stick it up the wido butt of anybody who called me an 'appeaser'or other such nonsense.
Nukes are bad and are a total waste of money, and I am sure that we will find more and nore reasons and methods to prevent them coming back in a new form to Scotland.
Posted by: paul h, fife on 5:04pm Sun 14 Oct 07
We've got our first proper government-who agree with the vast majourity of people in opposing trident. Therefore Westminster and the MoD have a battle on their hands. All the best to those leading the fight against the wasteful wmds.
We've got our first proper government-who agree with the vast majourity of people in opposing trident. Therefore Westminster and the MoD have a battle on their hands. All the best to those leading the fight against the wasteful wmds.
Posted by: rob on 5:07pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Colin B..alloon said:
[quote]You sound like Hitler[/quote]
I invoke Godwin's law.....again.
Colin B..alloon said:
You sound like Hitler
I invoke Godwin's law.....again.
Posted by: ptw, at the kitchen table... on 5:11pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Proud to be working-class. Proud to be a socialist. POroud that I disagree with volence as a means to an end; but sometimes...
Know what I mean, Colin from Pretentious-lnd?
Proud to be working-class. Proud to be a socialist. POroud that I disagree with volence as a means to an end; but sometimes...
Know what I mean, Colin from Pretentious-lnd?
Posted by: jim mitchell, Sauchie, Clack's on 5:12pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Colin, Bearsden, lets cut to the chase hear, in your opinion, should the UK government(if needed) bulldoze these plans through, be it over the heads of a Scottish Government and the Scottish people, I mean if it's in the interest of Britain as a whole and if they couldn't or shouldn't, then given that in your opinion it's in the best interests of us all, should they go to the trouble and expense of setting it up elsewhere in Britain and if so where?
Charles, Don't try and pull that one, wars have been with us since man first picked up a piece of wood to use as a club, that doesn't make them right or just because some one hasn't experinced one on the front line does not mean that they have no right to voice their concerns, the fact is that so far the only one's to experience the sharp end of these types of weapons are the people of Japan.
There is no evidence to support the idea that nukes prevented other world wars, we came too close over Cuba, ad it's still only being discovered how close we actually did come to destruction.
Colin, Bearsden, lets cut to the chase hear, in your opinion, should the UK government(if needed) bulldoze these plans through, be it over the heads of a Scottish Government and the Scottish people, I mean if it's in the interest of Britain as a whole and if they couldn't or shouldn't, then given that in your opinion it's in the best interests of us all, should they go to the trouble and expense of setting it up elsewhere in Britain and if so where?
Charles, Don't try and pull that one, wars have been with us since man first picked up a piece of wood to use as a club, that doesn't make them right or just because some one hasn't experinced one on the front line does not mean that they have no right to voice their concerns, the fact is that so far the only one's to experience the sharp end of these types of weapons are the people of Japan.
There is no evidence to support the idea that nukes prevented other world wars, we came too close over Cuba, ad it's still only being discovered how close we actually did come to destruction.
Posted by: alanski on 6:39pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Oh dear...
[bold]Charles of Edinburgh and Big Jakey[/bold] , you are a pair of blinkered morons. Your stupidity makes my flesh crawl. Dictators and tyrants love people like you.
Oh dear...
Charles of Edinburgh and Big Jakey , you are a pair of blinkered morons. Your stupidity makes my flesh crawl. Dictators and tyrants love people like you.
Posted by: Local Punter on 6:43pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]ColinB[/bold] wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin [/quote] Colin - You may well have access to information because of your military background but you seriously undermine your argument by resorting to personal insults. And what do you mean when you call Carlo et al appearers? Who exactly do you think is being appeased? Name the enemy.
ColinB wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: "In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... " and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin
Colin - You may well have access to information because of your military background but you seriously undermine your argument by resorting to personal insults. And what do you mean when you call Carlo et al appearers? Who exactly do you think is being appeased? Name the enemy.
Posted by: iliveinengland, hertfordshire on 7:51pm Sun 14 Oct 07
i have often wondered why all our nuclear submarines with their nuclear warheads didnt stop argentina from invadin the falklans
i have often wondered why all our nuclear submarines with their nuclear warheads didnt stop argentina from invadin the falklans
Posted by: David, East Kilbride on 8:45pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Hi folks,
Getting a bit hot on this topic.
I can assure you all that it isn't as hot as it will be if an accident occurred at Coalport.
The chap from Bearsden won't have to worry as his area as well as Edinburgh in the East and all central belt will be destroyed..
I said this before on this site 1 missile can carry 16 warheads, ( 16 missiles stored at the rims at Coalport ) .
Each warhead has the power 100 times greater than what was dropped in Nagasaki and Hiroshima...
16 concrete covered wagons hidden into the hillside covered in red blaze and copper conductors. Earth and grass seed on top to camouflage these monsters.. I don't know how the copper will help if an accident happened..
Sorry folks but they can take the lot to portsmouth or better still the upper Thames.
Maybe the good people of Washington will find Trident acceptable.
Remember the good O'll USA are the only country to have used what were babies compared to this.
Hi folks,
Getting a bit hot on this topic.
I can assure you all that it isn't as hot as it will be if an accident occurred at Coalport.
The chap from Bearsden won't have to worry as his area as well as Edinburgh in the East and all central belt will be destroyed..
I said this before on this site 1 missile can carry 16 warheads, ( 16 missiles stored at the rims at Coalport ) .
Each warhead has the power 100 times greater than what was dropped in Nagasaki and Hiroshima...
16 concrete covered wagons hidden into the hillside covered in red blaze and copper conductors. Earth and grass seed on top to camouflage these monsters.. I don't know how the copper will help if an accident happened..
Sorry folks but they can take the lot to portsmouth or better still the upper Thames.
Maybe the good people of Washington will find Trident acceptable.
Remember the good O'll USA are the only country to have used what were babies compared to this.
Posted by: Elsie Morris, Mary Magdalene's Second Cousin !! on 9:27pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
At least Jake and I aren't part of the herd-think how dull it would be if we all agreed? [/quote] COLIN B
Son..you and mad Jake ARE the herd!!
Colin B wrote:
At least Jake and I aren't part of the herd-think how dull it would be if we all agreed?
COLIN B
Son..you and mad Jake ARE the herd!!
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 9:28pm Sun 14 Oct 07
Local Punter at 6.43
You allow your bias to mushroom cloud your post. If you look carefully you will see Jake, Charles and I have taken lots of personal insults simply because we don't conform to the herd- bampot, burn down Bearsden, stupidity , talk of being banned and other aggresive posts( most of which use emotion and other intangible forms of speuculation to justify their posts ).
As for undermining my argument by personal insults I'd point out your " shooting the messenger" is a form of denial ie trying rubbish the message issue by clouding it with another.
No-one has countered my central argument that in Law MOD have exemptions from planning law -Carlo's attempt ( saying the laws I cited were spurious and cherry picked )was risible.
I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.
Local Punter at 6.43
You allow your bias to mushroom cloud your post. If you look carefully you will see Jake, Charles and I have taken lots of personal insults simply because we don't conform to the herd- bampot, burn down Bearsden, stupidity , talk of being banned and other aggresive posts( most of which use emotion and other intangible forms of speuculation to justify their posts ).
As for undermining my argument by personal insults I'd point out your " shooting the messenger" is a form of denial ie trying rubbish the message issue by clouding it with another.
No-one has countered my central argument that in Law MOD have exemptions from planning law -Carlo's attempt ( saying the laws I cited were spurious and cherry picked )was risible.
I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.
Posted by: Elsie Morris, Mary Magdalene's Second Cousin !! on 9:43pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Local Punter at 6.43 You allow your bias to mushroom cloud your post. If you look carefully you will see Jake, Charles and I have taken lots of personal insults simply because we don't conform to the herd- bampot, burn down Bearsden, stupidity , talk of being banned and other aggresive posts( most of which use emotion and other intangible forms of speuculation to justify their posts ). As for undermining my argument by personal insults I'd point out your " shooting the messenger" is a form of denial ie trying rubbish the message issue by clouding it with another. No-one has countered my central argument that in Law MOD have exemptions from planning law -Carlo's attempt ( saying the laws I cited were spurious and cherry picked )was risible. I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.[/quote] COLIN B (of humour by-pass fame)
After reading this, I wouldn't be too sure that the good residents of Bearsden themselves wouldn't vote to burn down their town (a spectre that was raised in jest...something that clearly escaped your narrow tortured vision of the world. It's pr3etty clear that the users of these blogs are almost queueing up to have a go at you for your most child-like responses, which is a shame really, as you are doing a MUCH better job yourself than ANY of them.
Get to bed early, and change your pseudo...there WILL be a life for you after your embarrassment fades,your town is re-built, ...........and you get yourself a sense of humour !!
Colin B wrote:
Local Punter at 6.43 You allow your bias to mushroom cloud your post. If you look carefully you will see Jake, Charles and I have taken lots of personal insults simply because we don't conform to the herd- bampot, burn down Bearsden, stupidity , talk of being banned and other aggresive posts( most of which use emotion and other intangible forms of speuculation to justify their posts ). As for undermining my argument by personal insults I'd point out your " shooting the messenger" is a form of denial ie trying rubbish the message issue by clouding it with another. No-one has countered my central argument that in Law MOD have exemptions from planning law -Carlo's attempt ( saying the laws I cited were spurious and cherry picked )was risible. I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.
COLIN B (of humour by-pass fame)
After reading this, I wouldn't be too sure that the good residents of Bearsden themselves wouldn't vote to burn down their town (a spectre that was raised in jest...something that clearly escaped your narrow tortured vision of the world. It's pr3etty clear that the users of these blogs are almost queueing up to have a go at you for your most child-like responses, which is a shame really, as you are doing a MUCH better job yourself than ANY of them.
Get to bed early, and change your pseudo...there WILL be a life for you after your embarrassment fades,your town is re-built, ...........and you get yourself a sense of humour !!
Posted by: Horrefied, At CB's Education standirds on 9:54pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote][bold]ColinB[/bold] wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: \"In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... \" and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin [/quote] Colen B (Lexusman)
Royal navy??? I'd gues your mainbrace huz been spliced today .........(and I went to school from 5 until 15 back in the 80's...so I clearly know more about the subject of talking sense and constructing an argument than you do shipmate).
Give up the bigheadedness an' go quitely tae yer scratcher.....ye've hud a bad day...(an' the morra's Monday).....huvva guid life...........idiot
.
(I feel sorry for the ithers inyer office innat if yer like this every day).
ColinB wrote:
Talking nonsense am I Carlo and Retired above?You both would appear under educated, ill informed, pacificist appeasers. I suggest you put aside your emotion and look at the evidence and the law. See the statutory references below: \"In addition, the Ministry of Defence as a Crown body enjoys exemptions etc. ..... Planning liaison on communications with Army HQ Scotland; Defence Medical ... www.scotland.gov.uk/ concordats/mod-00.as p - 41k - Cached - Similar pages The Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999 ...Like the Town and Country Planning Act, the Regulations do not bind the Crown. ... In addition, the Ministry of Defence will, in appropriate circumstances ... \" and there are many others I could cite. I was with the Royal Navy in the 1980s and would venture I know rather more about the subject than you. Colin
Colen B (Lexusman)
Royal navy??? I'd gues your mainbrace huz been spliced today .........(and I went to school from 5 until 15 back in the 80's...so I clearly know more about the subject of talking sense and constructing an argument than you do shipmate).
Give up the bigheadedness an' go quitely tae yer scratcher.....ye've hud a bad day...(an' the morra's Monday).....huvva guid life...........idiot
.
(I feel sorry for the ithers inyer office innat if yer like this every day).
Posted by: Kinghob on 9:57pm Sun 14 Oct 07
[quote]I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.[/quote]
The rest of the Labour efforts of MSP's weren't even allowed to [bold]mention[/bold] trident, let alone make a stand on Trident in the Scottish Parliament, a situation that will change with a proper representative Scottish government.
What was the percentage of Scottish MWP's who voted against Trident?
Dead high, and the MOD won't be as able to ride roughshod over Scotland as you imply, don't worry.
I'd also point out renewal of Trident vote was achieved with one of the largest Commons majorities of Labour's time in office and only Malcolm Chisholm resigned at at Holyrood over it among Labour MSPs.
The rest of the Labour efforts of MSP's weren't even allowed to
mention trident, let alone make a stand on Trident in the Scottish Parliament, a situation that will change with a proper representative Scottish government.
What was the percentage of Scottish MWP's who voted against Trident?
Dead high, and the MOD won't be as able to ride roughshod over Scotland as you imply, don't worry.
Posted by: Big Bad Jakey on 6:28am Mon 15 Oct 07
Elsie Morris,Local Punter ,alanski et al
Dont come sceeaming when the chinese or the iranians are invading our outposts, i wont say i told you so then but you will be the first to come looking for the support of our first class armed services.
Where will all your mock outrage and white hankies be there, chaining yoursleves to chinese warships wont make a difference, we as a country need to stand togehter againt the aggressors, we need to stand on our own feet, we are a country of innovators and fighters, true brits...the home of the banjoing loons, dont turn us in to peace loving hippies.
Elsie Morris,Local Punter ,alanski et al
Dont come sceeaming when the chinese or the iranians are invading our outposts, i wont say i told you so then but you will be the first to come looking for the support of our first class armed services.
Where will all your mock outrage and white hankies be there, chaining yoursleves to chinese warships wont make a difference, we as a country need to stand togehter againt the aggressors, we need to stand on our own feet, we are a country of innovators and fighters, true brits...the home of the banjoing loons, dont turn us in to peace loving hippies.
Posted by: Elsie Morris, Mary Magdalene's Second Cousin !! on 5:36pm Mon 15 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Big Bad Jakey[/bold] wrote:
Elsie Morris,Local Punter ,alanski et al Dont come sceeaming when the chinese or the iranians are invading our outposts, i wont say i told you so then but you will be the first to come looking for the support of our first class armed services. Where will all your mock outrage and white hankies be there, chaining yoursleves to chinese warships wont make a difference, we as a country need to stand togehter againt the aggressors, we need to stand on our own feet, we are a country of innovators and fighters, true brits...the home of the banjoing loons, dont turn us in to peace loving hippies.[/quote] BB is Jaked..........must be surely?
Matey...dinna fear we winna come to you for ANY help whatever.
We'll be much too busy makin' our way in the world an' luxuriating in the vast wealth that we'll hae created (havin' released a' the finance an' enterprise currently locked in weapons back intae expanding the economy, social services etc).
We'll be MUCH, MUCH too busy receiving our chinese friends here tae see just what an advanced peaceful and unthreatening player we are on the world stage with our new found prestige at the UN and other world bodies.
In the meantime, we'll just humour the likes of you, who say that the more weapons that are around, the greater the chance of world peace.(??????)
Ye see, that wan jist disnae dae it fur me son...(thatsa US way of thinkin'...ye ken, merr weapons, nae gun control.....but that's nuthin' tae dae wi' a' the school massacres etc).
Typical US apologist, rejected by the rest o' us Scots wi' muckle merr sense !!
Big Bad Jakey wrote:
Elsie Morris,Local Punter ,alanski et al Dont come sceeaming when the chinese or the iranians are invading our outposts, i wont say i told you so then but you will be the first to come looking for the support of our first class armed services. Where will all your mock outrage and white hankies be there, chaining yoursleves to chinese warships wont make a difference, we as a country need to stand togehter againt the aggressors, we need to stand on our own feet, we are a country of innovators and fighters, true brits...the home of the banjoing loons, dont turn us in to peace loving hippies.
BB is Jaked..........must be surely?
Matey...dinna fear we winna come to you for ANY help whatever.
We'll be much too busy makin' our way in the world an' luxuriating in the vast wealth that we'll hae created (havin' released a' the finance an' enterprise currently locked in weapons back intae expanding the economy, social services etc).
We'll be MUCH, MUCH too busy receiving our chinese friends here tae see just what an advanced peaceful and unthreatening player we are on the world stage with our new found prestige at the UN and other world bodies.
In the meantime, we'll just humour the likes of you, who say that the more weapons that are around, the greater the chance of world peace.(??????)
Ye see, that wan jist disnae dae it fur me son...(thatsa US way of thinkin'...ye ken, merr weapons, nae gun control.....but that's nuthin' tae dae wi' a' the school massacres etc).
Typical US apologist, rejected by the rest o' us Scots wi' muckle merr sense !!
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