Salmond: help us get rid of Trident First minister asks 122 countries to back Scotland ALEX SALMOND has made a major bid to win international backing for his government's campaign to rid Scotland of nuclear weapons, the Sunday Herald can reveal.
The first minister has written to 122 countries highlighting the nation's opposition to the deployment of Trident nuclear warheads on the Clyde, and his determination to try and block the UK government's decision to replace Trident.
Salmond is also asking the countries to support a request for Scotland to be given observer status at future meetings of the parties to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), an international agreement to limit the spread of nuclear weapons.
The first minister's move, on the eve of the Scottish government's Trident summit in Glasgow tomorrow, has been hailed as a potential breakthrough by disarmament experts.
Tomorrow's meeting will hear evidence from a Scottish advocate, John Mayer, that nuclear weapons are illegal under international law and the Scottish parliament would be "well within its competence" to pass legislation preventing crimes committed by weapons of mass destruction.
"The law of the whole world is against Trident. The Scottish parliament stands at a turning point to outlaw its threat or use, and in doing so will lead the world into a safer 21st century," said Mayer.
Salmond's letter, sent last week, is addressed to the UK ambassadors of 122 countries party to the NPT. "In May, for the first time since the nuclear age began in 1945, the people of Scotland elected a government that is opposed to nuclear weapons," he declared.
The Scottish government was planning to do "all that we can" to persuade UK ministers to change their mind on Trident, said Salmond. "The majority of Scottish people and their elected representatives oppose these deployments."
A decision to replace Trident was taken by former prime minister, Tony Blair, and pushed through the Commons in March, despite a Labour revolt. But a majority of Scottish MPs opposed the decision, as have an overwhelming majority of MSPs.
Tomorrow's summit will be opened by the deputy first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and closed by the Scottish minister for parliamentary business, Bruce Crawford. "There are few more important issues in the world today than nuclear weapons proliferation," Crawford told the Sunday Herald.
"As a country we have every right to give voice to our opposition to nuclear weapons on Scottish soil."
Scotland's stance was welcomed by disarmament experts. "This bold and timely initiative deserves to succeed," said Dr Ian Davis, director of the British American Security Information Council in London. He argued that there was a growing global movement to reverse reliance on nuclear weapons, backed by former US secretaries of state, George Schulz and Henry Kissinger, as well as Democratic presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
He said: "The Scottish people have long held the moral high ground on nuclear disarmament and having them represented at the NPT would be a real fillip to the majority world - currently 184 states - committed to a non-nuclear weapon future."
Dan Plesch, director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at the University of London, said Britain was violating the NPT by acquiring nuclear weapons from the US and by failing to conclude a treaty banning them, "so this Scottish initiative is bound to be welcomed internationally".
Green MSP Patrick Harvie, who will speak at the summit, said: "We all have an obligation to do what we can to stop the Westminster government forcing another generation of nuclear weapons onto Scotland."
New research released by the Scottish government suggests that opposition to nuclear weapons was a significant factor in causing voters to switch from Labour to the SNP at the May election.
There was "a compelling case Trident was at least part of the reason for Labour losing support in 2007", said the author of the research, Robert Johns from the University of Strathclyde.
A YouGov poll in May showed 58% of people in Scotland opposed Trident, up four to six points on previous surveys.
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Posted by: Alice Reynolds, Aberdeen on 10:49pm Sat 20 Oct 07
Where is the counter arguement in this? This is just a dangerous anti nuclear pro SNP advertorial. For a newspaper that claims quality journalism it is pathetic.
This is an "unpardonable folly" from Salmond.
Is Alex Salmond really in negotiations with all of the signatories? Iran?
Maybe Salmond should just get on with the job people elected him to do, like fix schools in Edinburgh or bring in more police.
If he goes into his own website he can download a copy of the Scotland Act if there is any confusion.
Police = devolved.
Schools = devolved.
Given Alex Salmond's recent examples of diplomacy where he threw his toys out the pram and looked like a plonker, I can see why years of careful international diplomacy with volatile states should be left where it is - Without Salmond.
Where is the counter arguement in this? This is just a dangerous anti nuclear pro SNP advertorial. For a newspaper that claims quality journalism it is pathetic.
This is an "unpardonable folly" from Salmond.
Is Alex Salmond really in negotiations with all of the signatories? Iran?
Maybe Salmond should just get on with the job people elected him to do, like fix schools in Edinburgh or bring in more police.
If he goes into his own website he can download a copy of the Scotland Act if there is any confusion.
Police = devolved.
Schools = devolved.
Given Alex Salmond's recent examples of diplomacy where he threw his toys out the pram and looked like a plonker, I can see why years of careful international diplomacy with volatile states should be left where it is - Without Salmond.
Posted by: Addison De Witt on 11:20pm Sat 20 Oct 07
Yawn.
Alice in Aberdeen. more like
Alice in Wonderland.
Yawn.
Alice in Aberdeen. more like
Alice in Wonderland.
Posted by: Lewis Carol Vorderman on 12:12am Sun 21 Oct 07
Dear Alice
If you are so concerned about funding for schools and police could you tell me why you want to spend £25 billion on nuclear weapons instead of police and schools?
Look forward to your reply.
Kindest Regards
LCV
Dear Alice
If you are so concerned about funding for schools and police could you tell me why you want to spend £25 billion on nuclear weapons instead of police and schools?
Look forward to your reply.
Kindest Regards
LCV
Posted by: Scottish Politics, Scotland on 12:15am Sun 21 Oct 07
It's great to see Alex Salmond and the SNP taking a lead on this issue. Nuclear Weapons are illegal under international law and it is heartening to finally see a Scottish Government prepared to meet this issue head on.
It's great to see Alex Salmond and the SNP taking a lead on this issue. Nuclear Weapons are illegal under international law and it is heartening to finally see a Scottish Government prepared to meet this issue head on.
Posted by: Lewis Carol Vorderman on 12:26am Sun 21 Oct 07
PS
Furthermore.
Are you happy with the worse financial settlement since devolution?
Are you happy that you no longer have the Executive which presided over a 13% increase in crime between 03/04 and 05/06?
Are you happy that the new Scottish Government has already put in an extra £40 million of capital investment for schools across Scotland, over and above what the previous Executive intended?
Are you not saddened that the Labour party has not helped crofters by calling for the compensation from Westminster that is Westminster's responsibility to provide?
Look forward to your answers.
PS
Furthermore.
Are you happy with the worse financial settlement since devolution?
Are you happy that you no longer have the Executive which presided over a 13% increase in crime between 03/04 and 05/06?
Are you happy that the new Scottish Government has already put in an extra £40 million of capital investment for schools across Scotland, over and above what the previous Executive intended?
Are you not saddened that the Labour party has not helped crofters by calling for the compensation from Westminster that is Westminster's responsibility to provide?
Look forward to your answers.
Posted by: karin on 12:40am Sun 21 Oct 07
any bets this is what willie mccrae was working on before he was murdered.
any bets this is what willie mccrae was working on before he was murdered.
Posted by: fizz, fez on 12:45am Sun 21 Oct 07
I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.
I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.
Posted by: Jim Taggart, Maryhill CID on 12:59am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]karin[/bold] wrote:
any bets this is what willie mccrae was working on before he was murdered.[/quote] You, like the rest of the world, would have had no more mind of who Willie McCrae was, never mind whatever his mind was occupied by, unless the totally inconclusive documentary had not been shown again this week. even his family think he did not meet his end at the hands of MI5 or any other such agency.
karin wrote:
any bets this is what willie mccrae was working on before he was murdered.
You, like the rest of the world, would have had no more mind of who Willie McCrae was, never mind whatever his mind was occupied by, unless the totally inconclusive documentary had not been shown again this week. even his family think he did not meet his end at the hands of MI5 or any other such agency.
Posted by: Inspector Clouseau, Paris on 1:12am Sun 21 Oct 07
Jim Taggart
Its a bit fishy that Willie McCrae decides to comit suicide on a lonely Highland road. Dont you think.?
I suspect everyone and no one.
Jim Taggart
Its a bit fishy that Willie McCrae decides to comit suicide on a lonely Highland road. Dont you think.?
I suspect everyone and no one.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:40am Sun 21 Oct 07
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ).
Put up or shut up.
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ).
Put up or shut up.
Posted by: Jim Taggart, Maryhill CID on 1:41am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Inspector Clouseau[/bold] wrote:
Jim Taggart Its a bit fishy that Willie McCrae decides to comit suicide on a lonely Highland road. Dont you think.? I suspect everyone and no one.[/quote] Nope, not at all, when was the last time you saw soneone top themselves in Sauchiehall Street or Princes Street in the middle of the rush hour?
People do it at home and in remote/secluded places, anywhere where they are not likely to be found readily, in short.
Inspector Clouseau wrote:
Jim Taggart Its a bit fishy that Willie McCrae decides to comit suicide on a lonely Highland road. Dont you think.? I suspect everyone and no one.
Nope, not at all, when was the last time you saw soneone top themselves in Sauchiehall Street or Princes Street in the middle of the rush hour?
People do it at home and in remote/secluded places, anywhere where they are not likely to be found readily, in short.
Posted by: Inspector Clouseau, Paris on 1:52am Sun 21 Oct 07
Jim Taggart
If I was going to comit suicide. I would put my head in the oven.
especially after watching an episode of Eastenders .
Jim Taggart
If I was going to comit suicide. I would put my head in the oven.
especially after watching an episode of Eastenders .
Posted by: Brian Hill, Edinburgh on 2:32am Sun 21 Oct 07
Apart from costing a fortune to replace and maintain, the Trident base makes Scotland a prime target in any nuclear confrontation, which, because of our understanding of the concept of a No Win 'Nuclear Winter', is never likely to happen anyway.
So, if a 'Nuclear War' breaks out even the survivors will die because of the Nuclear Winter and if we don't have a Nuclear War what a colossal waste of money nuclear weapons will have been. Luckily we don't need money for health, housing, education etc or we could have child poverty and all sorts existing in this Oil rich country......ridicul
ous idea I know, apologies for raising it.
The richest countries in the world are countries which spend very little on defence, e.g. Sweden, Germany, Japan, Holland, Switzerland. None of them have nuclear weapons and yet, remind me, how many of them have been attacked with conventional weapons, never mind with nuclear weapons? Oh yes. None.
Well played the SNP, leading from the front again. A concept we in Britain are not familiar with. Makes a refreshing change.
Apart from costing a fortune to replace and maintain, the Trident base makes Scotland a prime target in any nuclear confrontation, which, because of our understanding of the concept of a No Win 'Nuclear Winter', is never likely to happen anyway.
So, if a 'Nuclear War' breaks out even the survivors will die because of the Nuclear Winter and if we don't have a Nuclear War what a colossal waste of money nuclear weapons will have been. Luckily we don't need money for health, housing, education etc or we could have child poverty and all sorts existing in this Oil rich country......ridicul
ous idea I know, apologies for raising it.
The richest countries in the world are countries which spend very little on defence, e.g. Sweden, Germany, Japan, Holland, Switzerland. None of them have nuclear weapons and yet, remind me, how many of them have been attacked with conventional weapons, never mind with nuclear weapons? Oh yes. None.
Well played the SNP, leading from the front again. A concept we in Britain are not familiar with. Makes a refreshing change.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:10am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote]I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.[/quote] It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.
It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:10am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote]I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.[/quote] It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.
It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:11am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote]I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.[/quote] It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
I would love to see the back of trident.............
.. but only if Salmond and his arch-stooge Sturgeon were srtapped to them and sent off where the sun don't shine.
BTW I hate all politicians.
It's Labour politicians who support Trident and the SNP who oppose them.
It is Labour politicians who support Weapons of Mass Destruction and invading other countries. It is the SNP who dares oppose them.
As for Willie MacRae's relatives, they did not share his politics and were conned by the authorities to keep quiet. How could Willie shoot himself in the head, twice, drive off the road and throw his gun and brief case many yards away and neatly stack up his torn documents? Why are the police and Procurator Fiscal refused permission to speak on the matter. Why did the programme dwell on his relative and not interview people from the Willie MacRae Society, including the late Dave Leadbetter of Inquest's two boxes of investigative evidence. Why was the retired scene of the crimes officer from the Society who, went over everything, not interviewed? Why was such a slanted and superficial documentary foisted on the public?
Posted by: Patriot, Argyll on 7:36am Sun 21 Oct 07
[bold]I marched against nuclcear weapons (Polaris)in 1961,then got the jail for blocking off the US base at Ardnadam Pier, Holy Loch.We must remove this scourge form our land at all costs.[/bold]
I marched against nuclcear weapons (Polaris)in 1961,then got the jail for blocking off the US base at Ardnadam Pier, Holy Loch.We must remove this scourge form our land at all costs. Posted by: Scotsgait, www.scotsgait.co.uk on 10:05am Sun 21 Oct 07
Good for Alex. An FM who is raising Scotland's profile in the international arena.
(The Hootsman's headline for this story is [italic][bold]Salmond bid for seat at UN[/bold][/italic]and it reveals that the First Minister has written to representatives of the [italic][bold]189[/bold][/italic]countries who have signed the Treaty.)
_________
Alex or Kelvin - who knows about Scotland's ambition best ? Vote in the Scotsgait poll
Good for Alex. An FM who is raising Scotland's profile in the international arena.
(The Hootsman's headline for this story is
Salmond bid for seat at UNand it reveals that the First Minister has written to representatives of the
189countries who have signed the Treaty.)
_________
Alex or Kelvin - who knows about Scotland's ambition best ? Vote in the Scotsgait poll
Posted by: Arnold Codger on 1:08pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Re: Willie McCrae, SNP former Vice-Chairman, shot dead but classed as suicide in a cover-up 21yrs ago. Elish Angiolini denied an an inquiry only last year:-
http://almax.wordpre
ss.com/category/poli
tics/willie-macrae/
Re: Willie McCrae, SNP former Vice-Chairman, shot dead but classed as suicide in a cover-up 21yrs ago. Elish Angiolini denied an an inquiry only last year:-
http://almax.wordpre
ss.com/category/poli
tics/willie-macrae/
Posted by: TAKE YOUR TIME, TAE ANSWER SENSIBLY on 2:01pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.[/quote] WEE DIDDY COLIN
Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff.
Even for you, that was a stupid post!!!
Colin B wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.
WEE DIDDY COLIN
Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff.
Even for you, that was a stupid post!!!
Posted by: Jim, Edinburgh on 2:08pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent \"Hellish\" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ).
Put up or shut up.[/quote] Colin, you should check out the International Court of Justice opinion from 1996. It's all online. And then see the two lawyers (out of four) quoted in the UK Government White Paper, who said that Trident was illegal.
The problem is that most Scottish courts refuse to listen to arguments regarding international law, and Strathclyde Police are under orders not to respond to requests for investigation of Faslane - so even when people try to get Trident investigated in court, they are not able to.
Colin B wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent \"Hellish\" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ).
Put up or shut up.
Colin, you should check out the International Court of Justice opinion from 1996. It's all online. And then see the two lawyers (out of four) quoted in the UK Government White Paper, who said that Trident was illegal.
The problem is that most Scottish courts refuse to listen to arguments regarding international law, and Strathclyde Police are under orders not to respond to requests for investigation of Faslane - so even when people try to get Trident investigated in court, they are not able to.
Posted by: Schoolteacher on 2:38pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]TAKE YOUR TIME[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.[/quote] WEE DIDDY COLIN
Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff.
Even for you, that was a stupid post!!![/quote] Your spelling is dreadful. I give it a big fat zero .
TAKE YOUR TIME wrote:
Colin B wrote:
If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.
WEE DIDDY COLIN
Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff.
Even for you, that was a stupid post!!!
Your spelling is dreadful. I give it a big fat zero .
Posted by: Iain on 2:45pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Brian Hill[/bold] wrote:
Apart from costing a fortune to replace and maintain, the Trident base makes Scotland a prime target in any nuclear confrontation, which, because of our understanding of the concept of a No Win 'Nuclear Winter', is never likely to happen anyway. So, if a 'Nuclear War' breaks out even the survivors will die because of the Nuclear Winter and if we don't have a Nuclear War what a colossal waste of money nuclear weapons will have been. Luckily we don't need money for health, housing, education etc or we could have child poverty and all sorts existing in this Oil rich country......ridicul ous idea I know, apologies for raising it. The richest countries in the world are countries which spend very little on defence, e.g. Sweden, Germany, Japan, Holland, Switzerland. None of them have nuclear weapons and yet, remind me, how many of them have been attacked with conventional weapons, never mind with nuclear weapons? Oh yes. None. Well played the SNP, leading from the front again. A concept we in Britain are not familiar with. Makes a refreshing change.[/quote] War or even the most outside threat of war is a source of money and profit for many people.
Defence contractors made alot of money out of the cold war.
Take 9/11 for instance - Osama Bin Laden has gained nothing from it. Halliburton group on the other hand...
It doesn't make countries richer but for small groups of indviduals, usually those associated with and financers of political leaders, its another matter entirely.
Brian Hill wrote:
Apart from costing a fortune to replace and maintain, the Trident base makes Scotland a prime target in any nuclear confrontation, which, because of our understanding of the concept of a No Win 'Nuclear Winter', is never likely to happen anyway. So, if a 'Nuclear War' breaks out even the survivors will die because of the Nuclear Winter and if we don't have a Nuclear War what a colossal waste of money nuclear weapons will have been. Luckily we don't need money for health, housing, education etc or we could have child poverty and all sorts existing in this Oil rich country......ridicul ous idea I know, apologies for raising it. The richest countries in the world are countries which spend very little on defence, e.g. Sweden, Germany, Japan, Holland, Switzerland. None of them have nuclear weapons and yet, remind me, how many of them have been attacked with conventional weapons, never mind with nuclear weapons? Oh yes. None. Well played the SNP, leading from the front again. A concept we in Britain are not familiar with. Makes a refreshing change.
War or even the most outside threat of war is a source of money and profit for many people.
Defence contractors made alot of money out of the cold war.
Take 9/11 for instance - Osama Bin Laden has gained nothing from it. Halliburton group on the other hand...
It doesn't make countries richer but for small groups of indviduals, usually those associated with and financers of political leaders, its another matter entirely.
Posted by: Charles Hand, Edinburgh on 3:35pm Sun 21 Oct 07
I think that we shouldn't replace the Trident system at all, as it is a monumental waste of money for something we should never use, money which should be spent on properly funding our armed services, security services, hospitals, and schools. I think that we should, however, retain the ability to build nuclear weapons in the future if the need ever arose for a deterrent. There are states and leaders in the world, who, if they were able to, would hold Britain and Scotland to ransom, and we cannot allow that to happen. We should retain our facilities at Aldermaston, and be able to manufacture a nuclear warhead for our Tomahawk missiles in three to six months, to arm our forthcoming Astute class submarines.
I think that we shouldn't replace the Trident system at all, as it is a monumental waste of money for something we should never use, money which should be spent on properly funding our armed services, security services, hospitals, and schools. I think that we should, however, retain the ability to build nuclear weapons in the future if the need ever arose for a deterrent. There are states and leaders in the world, who, if they were able to, would hold Britain and Scotland to ransom, and we cannot allow that to happen. We should retain our facilities at Aldermaston, and be able to manufacture a nuclear warhead for our Tomahawk missiles in three to six months, to arm our forthcoming Astute class submarines.
Posted by: James on 3:51pm Sun 21 Oct 07
The Iranians and North Koreans will be laughing at us now. What's the point of Salmond's 'summit' a waste of money getting together all the people opposed to Trident to say that they are opposed to it. Unfortunately the prople of Scotland 'elected' a 'governement' with a 'first minister' who was only interested in posturing about the international stage and indulging in gesture politics to distract from the lack of action on domestic issues and the unfulfillable fantansy manifesto.
The Iranians and North Koreans will be laughing at us now. What's the point of Salmond's 'summit' a waste of money getting together all the people opposed to Trident to say that they are opposed to it. Unfortunately the prople of Scotland 'elected' a 'governement' with a 'first minister' who was only interested in posturing about the international stage and indulging in gesture politics to distract from the lack of action on domestic issues and the unfulfillable fantansy manifesto.
Posted by: paul h, fife on 4:48pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Here's the rub- the people don't want Trident. The former labour/liberal executive didn't want Trident. The SNP don't want Trident.
Notice the difference- labour talking the talk- the SNP (an actual government) walking the walk.
Now watch the hypocrisy as labour attack the government for trying to stop something they themselves are against.
Here's the rub- the people don't want Trident. The former labour/liberal executive didn't want Trident. The SNP don't want Trident.
Notice the difference- labour talking the talk- the SNP (an actual government) walking the walk.
Now watch the hypocrisy as labour attack the government for trying to stop something they themselves are against.
Posted by: alanski, Edinburgh on 6:45pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Well done Alex Salmond, most of Scotland is with you, apart from complete idiots like Alice from Aberdeen. You are an appalling hypocrite - being anti nuclear is dangerous??? Go and see a doctor.
Well done Alex Salmond, most of Scotland is with you, apart from complete idiots like Alice from Aberdeen. You are an appalling hypocrite - being anti nuclear is dangerous??? Go and see a doctor.
Posted by: David Alexander on 9:36pm Sun 21 Oct 07
America - the most heavily defended country in the history of the world, ever, with obscene amounts of nuclear weapons.
America - powerless on 09/11/2001.
America - the most heavily defended country in the history of the world, ever, with obscene amounts of nuclear weapons.
America - powerless on 09/11/2001.
Posted by: Jacqui Burke, Oldham on 12:22pm Tue 23 Oct 07
As a mother I applaud Alex Salmond and the SNP for standing up to the nuclear proliferators.
I am teaching my daughter not to use force to settle disputes. But what sort of an example is being set by the UK government when it works against the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and threatens to use weapons of mass destruction to resolve conflict?
Viva our Scottish neighbours.
Jacqui Burke
Oldham, Lancashire
As a mother I applaud Alex Salmond and the SNP for standing up to the nuclear proliferators.
I am teaching my daughter not to use force to settle disputes. But what sort of an example is being set by the UK government when it works against the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and threatens to use weapons of mass destruction to resolve conflict?
Viva our Scottish neighbours.
Jacqui Burke
Oldham, Lancashire
Posted by: TAKE YOUR TIME, TAE ANSWER SENSIBLY on 4:43pm Tue 23 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Schoolteacher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]TAKE YOUR TIME[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote: If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.[/quote] WEE DIDDY COLIN Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff. Even for you, that was a stupid post!!![/quote] Your spelling is dreadful. I give it a big fat zero .[/quote] Skilteacher.........
(a dominie)
Ooh......an expirt in gien' lessins in the scoattish dialects then ir wi???.
An' whit wid qualifie ye tae mak' sic an assessmint if if ye hinna deigned shown uz yer qualifikationz innat then Sir/Madim??
.........or are we to be bound by the likes of you to write only as all unionist forelock tuggers are deemed to have to???.
Frankly I couldn't care less just how fat your "zero" is.
Schoolteacher wrote:
TAKE YOUR TIME wrote: Colin B wrote: If Trident is illegal will one of you appeasers raise and action and prove your case in court. Only the stupid, inept Sheriff MArgaret Gimblett ( a poor advert for Women reaching the top of the legal profession, of which the incompetent "Hellish" Elish Angiolini is another ) has declared it illegal ( despite her not having jusrisdiction at Greenock Sheriff Court ). Put up or shut up.
WEE DIDDY COLIN Whit ir you daein' up tae this time? Get tae yer bed, ya wee sexist nyaff. Even for you, that was a stupid post!!!
Your spelling is dreadful. I give it a big fat zero .
Skilteacher.........
(a dominie)
Ooh......an expirt in gien' lessins in the scoattish dialects then ir wi???.
An' whit wid qualifie ye tae mak' sic an assessmint if if ye hinna deigned shown uz yer qualifikationz innat then Sir/Madim??
.........or are we to be bound by the likes of you to write only as all unionist forelock tuggers are deemed to have to???.
Frankly I couldn't care less just how fat your "zero" is.
Posted by: Shoolteacher on 1:24am Wed 24 Oct 07
Nope. Thats not the Scots dialect.
Thats Glawegian Govan ned Slang .
Ps. Im a SNP voter.
Nope. Thats not the Scots dialect.
Thats Glawegian Govan ned Slang .
Ps. Im a SNP voter.
Posted by: Paul Stephens, Montana, USA on 6:11am Wed 31 Oct 07
May I remind you that Field Marshal Sir Claude Auchinlech was one of Bertrand Russell's original Committee of 100 to prevent the nuclear arms race? Boswell and the Jacobites would be proud. No appeasers, here!
Paul Stephens, Great Falls, Montana USA
May I remind you that Field Marshal Sir Claude Auchinlech was one of Bertrand Russell's original Committee of 100 to prevent the nuclear arms race? Boswell and the Jacobites would be proud. No appeasers, here!
Paul Stephens, Great Falls, Montana USA
Posted by: foxy, Brigadoon on 9:16am Sun 11 Nov 07
So after the job losses, does Swinney still reckon that the folk who lose livelyhoods will be £10,000
better off in 10 years?
So after the job losses, does Swinney still reckon that the folk who lose livelyhoods will be £10,000
better off in 10 years?
Posted by: Roy St Pierre, Colne, Lancashire on 8:08pm Mon 19 Nov 07
I was born in London but have lived in Lancashire over 35 years and feel at home in the North – I wish like you we had devolution and a North of England Parliament.
The UK is so London and South-East dominated.
I stayed up all night watching the devolution vote & cheered for joy – the Welsh one was really nail-biting.
I’ve been up to Faslane 4 times this year.
The Big Blockade on October 1st was reported in all the Scottish papers, even the Scottish version of the Sun but hardly a mention in any down south.
All praise to Alec Salmond for taking this initiative and to Scotland for opposing Trident.
He’s so refreshing compared with New Labour/New Tory Blair/Brown/Cameron
Our local MP Gordon Prentice is strongly anti-Trident and Green MEP Dr Caroline Lucas has been arrested at Faslane but most follow the party line
If you get Independence beware – I might move north & apply for Scottish citizenship!
Put my name in a search engine for Faslane photos.
I was born in London but have lived in Lancashire over 35 years and feel at home in the North – I wish like you we had devolution and a North of England Parliament.
The UK is so London and South-East dominated.
I stayed up all night watching the devolution vote & cheered for joy – the Welsh one was really nail-biting.
I’ve been up to Faslane 4 times this year.
The Big Blockade on October 1st was reported in all the Scottish papers, even the Scottish version of the Sun but hardly a mention in any down south.
All praise to Alec Salmond for taking this initiative and to Scotland for opposing Trident.
He’s so refreshing compared with New Labour/New Tory Blair/Brown/Cameron
Our local MP Gordon Prentice is strongly anti-Trident and Green MEP Dr Caroline Lucas has been arrested at Faslane but most follow the party line
If you get Independence beware – I might move north & apply for Scottish citizenship!
Put my name in a search engine for Faslane photos.
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 9:57pm Sun 3 Feb 08
This is Excellent News... Well Done Alex You Can Count on My Vote.
This is Excellent News... Well Done Alex You Can Count on My Vote.
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 10:15pm Sun 3 Feb 08
Roy St Pierre 8.08pm .. Yup I spent most of last Summer working in mainland Europe... but had every day access to the Brit (English) Papers.. Hardly once was anything published about the Political situation in Scotland at a time when the SNP won the election and the Political thunderbolt to the Scottish Labour would normally have been of interest to all Brits.... It almost seemed as the Subject of Scotland was forbidden News by the Brit (English) Media.
Roy St Pierre 8.08pm .. Yup I spent most of last Summer working in mainland Europe... but had every day access to the Brit (English) Papers.. Hardly once was anything published about the Political situation in Scotland at a time when the SNP won the election and the Political thunderbolt to the Scottish Labour would normally have been of interest to all Brits.... It almost seemed as the Subject of Scotland was forbidden News by the Brit (English) Media.