Scottish government closes the door on right-to-buy policy Iconic Thatcher scheme set to be scrapped to tackle housing crisis SCOTTISH MINISTERS are planning to challenge one of the most iconic policies of the Thatcher era by scrapping tenants' "right-to-buy" for new social housing.
The Sunday Herald understands the SNP government will propose a ban on the sale of new council and housing association homes.
The move is part of a strategy to address Scotland's housing crisis by encouraging local authorities to build new properties.
The idea will be contained in the government's housing green paper, which is expected to be published in the next few weeks.
Scotland is experiencing a crisis in the provision of affordable homes, with more than 200,000 people currently languishing on waiting lists.
The consultation will focus on how to plug the shortages of affordable housing and address the problems in the planning system.
One proposal is to prevent tenants from exercising their right-to-buy on new-build social houses, a ban that would apply to homes owned by councils and housing associations.
Introduced in 1980 by the Thatcher government, the right-to-buy allowed council tenants to purchase their homes at a discounted rate.
Around 400,000 properties have since been sold off, sales that housing experts believe have contributed to the current shortage in affordable homes.
A Scottish government insider said: "As part of our consultation on housing in Scotland, we will look at a range of measures with the overarching aim of improving the housing system and achieving better value for money.
"We will consult on the option of ending the right-to-buy for new-build social housing - only affecting tenants moving to newly-built properties."
The green paper, which will be unveiled by communities minister Stewart Maxwell, expands on the SNP manifesto commitment to "review" the Thatcher policy.
A debate on the right-to-buy is also scheduled to take place at the SNP conference in Aviemore on Friday, where one motion calls for a "full review" of the policy.
The green paper idea won't affect existing tenants, or those who are moving due to their home being demolished or refurbished, but it does chip away at one of the most controversial policies of the 1980s. Such a shift would also require legislation.
The outgoing Labour/LibDem Scottish Executive restricted the right-to-buy in 2001 by allowing local councils to apply for a temporary suspension of the scheme, a tool several local authorities have used.
Aberdeen City Council last month successfully applied to suspend the right-to-buy for a third of its 7000 properties.
Norman Tebbit, a Cabinet minister in Mrs Thatcher's government, blasted the new policy: "I am not surprised the SNP, which is the Nationalist Labour party in Scotland, would do this sort of thing. It is anti-aspiration and goes back to the old idea of the state being the landlord."
But Gavin Corbett, the policy manager at Shelter Scotland, backed the idea: "This is probably the most significant amendment to the right-to-buy since it was brought in, in 1980, so it's strongly welcome. The SNP could also follow up on its manifesto pledge to give councils and housing associations more flexibility on right-to-buy for existing properties."
A Scottish government spokesperson said: "Suggestions that the consultation will invite views on the option of ending right-to-buy for new-build social housing are speculation, and we cannot comment on the detail of the Green Paper ahead of its publication."
l The legacy of right-to-buy: page 2&3
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Posted by: Maria Regina on Sun 21 Oct 07
Splendid if they do it - shame on tory NuLabor for continuing the policy. Then what has to be done is to take action against all those who have made off with social housing at a fraction of the value and get them to repay the money so that more social housing can be built.
Splendid if they do it - shame on tory NuLabor for continuing the policy. Then what has to be done is to take action against all those who have made off with social housing at a fraction of the value and get them to repay the money so that more social housing can be built.
Posted by: MsJ, Glasgow on 12:05am Sun 21 Oct 07
The original Right to Buy did not take into account the number of houses that would be bought, not by tenants, but by their families not even living there as a future investment when parents died. The number of properties where that was the case is too many to count. I always felt that RTB legislation should have been tighter in that respect. If a tenant wasn't able to purchase in their own right, no one else should have been able to do it for them, use their discount in the purchase, and then profit shamelessly at a later date.
There were other flaws too of course. The proceeds from sales did'nt go to Councils, but to central Government, and Councils were still left with the debt associated with these sold properties. It was a mess. The main thing tho, was that Councils stopped building houses, all the good properties were sold off and...........that's how we ended up where we are now.
The original Right to Buy did not take into account the number of houses that would be bought, not by tenants, but by their families not even living there as a future investment when parents died. The number of properties where that was the case is too many to count. I always felt that RTB legislation should have been tighter in that respect. If a tenant wasn't able to purchase in their own right, no one else should have been able to do it for them, use their discount in the purchase, and then profit shamelessly at a later date.
There were other flaws too of course. The proceeds from sales did'nt go to Councils, but to central Government, and Councils were still left with the debt associated with these sold properties. It was a mess. The main thing tho, was that Councils stopped building houses, all the good properties were sold off and...........that's how we ended up where we are now.
Posted by: Guga, Rockall on 12:39am Sun 21 Oct 07
The whole Right to Buy scheme was flawed from the very beginning. It could have been acceptable if people had bought their houses at market value, but, instead, they were given huge discounts, anything up to 70%, depending on how long they, or their family had been living in council housing.
This meant that people were able to buy houses for peanuts, at the expense of the taxpayer, and, after a couple of years, could sell the house off for a huge profit.
It was all very well saying that they had already contributed to the cost of the house by paying rent for years, but such generous discounts did not apply to people who were renting in the private sector and subsequently wished to buy a house.
To make matters worse, the Westminster government made sure that the monies from the sale of council houses went into consolidated revenue; and the councils, i.e. the council tax payers, were left with the debt.
As pointed out above, all he good council houses were sold off, and councils stopped building houses. This resulted in a shortage of public housing. In other words, the whole policy has been a total shambles, and it is not before time that it was stopped.
The whole Right to Buy scheme was flawed from the very beginning. It could have been acceptable if people had bought their houses at market value, but, instead, they were given huge discounts, anything up to 70%, depending on how long they, or their family had been living in council housing.
This meant that people were able to buy houses for peanuts, at the expense of the taxpayer, and, after a couple of years, could sell the house off for a huge profit.
It was all very well saying that they had already contributed to the cost of the house by paying rent for years, but such generous discounts did not apply to people who were renting in the private sector and subsequently wished to buy a house.
To make matters worse, the Westminster government made sure that the monies from the sale of council houses went into consolidated revenue; and the councils, i.e. the council tax payers, were left with the debt.
As pointed out above, all he good council houses were sold off, and councils stopped building houses. This resulted in a shortage of public housing. In other words, the whole policy has been a total shambles, and it is not before time that it was stopped.
Posted by: RMcGeddon, Glasgow on 12:57am Sun 21 Oct 07
RTB has led to a huge improvement in vast areas of housing that used to fester under the dead hand of incompetent Labour councils. I do agree though that RTB rules should have stopped scams like speculators paying tenants to buy properties.
RTB has led to a huge improvement in vast areas of housing that used to fester under the dead hand of incompetent Labour councils. I do agree though that RTB rules should have stopped scams like speculators paying tenants to buy properties.
Posted by: MsJ, Glasgow on 1:16am Sun 21 Oct 07
RMcGeddon (like the name by the way) tenants often weren't persuaded by speculators, many were talked into it by their families. I always felt that a council property being purchased by a family member not living in the property should not have the discount attached to the sale.
RMcGeddon (like the name by the way) tenants often weren't persuaded by speculators, many were talked into it by their families. I always felt that a council property being purchased by a family member not living in the property should not have the discount attached to the sale.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 4:41am Sun 21 Oct 07
I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?
I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 5:05am Sun 21 Oct 07
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 5:06am Sun 21 Oct 07
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 5:06am Sun 21 Oct 07
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
Posted by: Guga, Rockall on 7:01am Sun 21 Oct 07
Scunnert. In my previous post, paragraph three, I said "It was all very well saying that they had already contributed to the cost of the house by paying rent for years, but such generous discounts did not apply to people who were renting in the private sector and subsequently wished to buy a house".
Why do you consider that having paid rent to the council gives them the right to a discount, anything up to 70%, when such rights do not apply to other people? Do you consider it right that one sector of society should be subsidised by the remainder of society? Do you think it right that this subsidised sector of society should then be allowed to profit from this? Are the remainder of society not entitled to be treated fairly?
As I said, let them buy their council houses, but at full market value. And even then, they should not be allowed to sell it for at least ten years.
Scunnert. In my previous post, paragraph three, I said "It was all very well saying that they had already contributed to the cost of the house by paying rent for years, but such generous discounts did not apply to people who were renting in the private sector and subsequently wished to buy a house".
Why do you consider that having paid rent to the council gives them the right to a discount, anything up to 70%, when such rights do not apply to other people? Do you consider it right that one sector of society should be subsidised by the remainder of society? Do you think it right that this subsidised sector of society should then be allowed to profit from this? Are the remainder of society not entitled to be treated fairly?
As I said, let them buy their council houses, but at full market value. And even then, they should not be allowed to sell it for at least ten years.
Posted by: Numpty Dumpty on 7:13am Sun 21 Oct 07
Now let's see, the reason people can't buy their own house from the market is because the market price is too high. So obviously, if those people are given a RTB option on their council house, then the RTB should be based on the house's full market price... which they can't afford to pay... so they'll have to remain council house tenants instead. Dependency perpetuated. Brilliant!
Now let's see, the reason people can't buy their own house from the market is because the market price is too high. So obviously, if those people are given a RTB option on their council house, then the RTB should be based on the house's full market price... which they can't afford to pay... so they'll have to remain council house tenants instead. Dependency perpetuated. Brilliant!
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 9:05am Sun 21 Oct 07
Thatcher's thinking behind RTB was part of her drive to break the working class.
Put people in debt over their homes, which they will lose if they default on the mortgage. Result, great reluctance to take action on wages and condition for fear of losing their jobs.
Their was no great ideal such as, increasing the property owning class nor giving people greater control over their own lives.
With properly drafted legislation that ends RTB, except at full market value, the SNP Government will have done more for the people of Scotland, with one Act of Paliament, than the NuLab/LibDems did in 8 years.
Thatcher's thinking behind RTB was part of her drive to break the working class.
Put people in debt over their homes, which they will lose if they default on the mortgage. Result, great reluctance to take action on wages and condition for fear of losing their jobs.
Their was no great ideal such as, increasing the property owning class nor giving people greater control over their own lives.
With properly drafted legislation that ends RTB, except at full market value, the SNP Government will have done more for the people of Scotland, with one Act of Paliament, than the NuLab/LibDems did in 8 years.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 9:10am Sun 21 Oct 07
Great! At last a blow against the policies of the Old mad Cow, Scotland's worst enemy since Longshanks. Buying hugely discounted public property to be able to sell it at full market value was fundamentally wrong. If the snivelling, forelock tugging traitors of Labour had lived to their party's principals this would have been done long ago.
Great! At last a blow against the policies of the Old mad Cow, Scotland's worst enemy since Longshanks. Buying hugely discounted public property to be able to sell it at full market value was fundamentally wrong. If the snivelling, forelock tugging traitors of Labour had lived to their party's principals this would have been done long ago.
Posted by: Fifer on 9:13am Sun 21 Oct 07
Scunnert says that tenants have paid rent 'for many, many years' - but the new proposals would only apply to new tenants, who would presumably enter their tenancy fully aware of the conditions. the main flaw of RTB was always the refusal by the Conservatives, continued by their successors, to permit local authorities to spend receipts on new housing - crazy. Incidentally in many European countries renting is the norm, and 'owning' your house (ie with the banks as your landlord really) is not so widespread.
Scunnert says that tenants have paid rent 'for many, many years' - but the new proposals would only apply to new tenants, who would presumably enter their tenancy fully aware of the conditions. the main flaw of RTB was always the refusal by the Conservatives, continued by their successors, to permit local authorities to spend receipts on new housing - crazy. Incidentally in many European countries renting is the norm, and 'owning' your house (ie with the banks as your landlord really) is not so widespread.
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 9:38am Sun 21 Oct 07
A condition of Planning Consent for "Wimpey" estates nowadays is that the developer must incorporate a percentage of "affordable" houses in the plans. If we are to avoid walled townships then mixed developments are a must.
The problem with council houses up till now has been their ongoing maintenance has been so poor leading to squalid conditions that bred so many social problems.
Build decent council houses that can sit comfortably beside any neighbouring buildings, encourage a different attitude among tenants (they are custodians of good property) and we may see a different Scotland emerge.
This is a good move by the SNP. It will be interesting to see if Wendy Alexander supports Norman Tebbit's view.
A condition of Planning Consent for "Wimpey" estates nowadays is that the developer must incorporate a percentage of "affordable" houses in the plans. If we are to avoid walled townships then mixed developments are a must.
The problem with council houses up till now has been their ongoing maintenance has been so poor leading to squalid conditions that bred so many social problems.
Build decent council houses that can sit comfortably beside any neighbouring buildings, encourage a different attitude among tenants (they are custodians of good property) and we may see a different Scotland emerge.
This is a good move by the SNP. It will be interesting to see if Wendy Alexander supports Norman Tebbit's view.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 9:51am Sun 21 Oct 07
On the continent, where more people tend to rent than buy, nobody thinks of themselves as being 'dependent.' Why should it be different here? There are always going to be people who can't afford to buy houses and will require social housing. That's what society is all about - helping those who are less fortunate!
The way house prices are going, it won't be long before only the rich can buy their houses. Just like it used to be. The RTB legislation has been abused. Time for it to go.
On the continent, where more people tend to rent than buy, nobody thinks of themselves as being 'dependent.' Why should it be different here? There are always going to be people who can't afford to buy houses and will require social housing. That's what society is all about - helping those who are less fortunate!
The way house prices are going, it won't be long before only the rich can buy their houses. Just like it used to be. The RTB legislation has been abused. Time for it to go.
Posted by: Boaby Swingin, in a barra on 10:02am Sun 21 Oct 07
Provocative pouting princess Wendy Alexander said, "That old Norman Tebbit, eh? Last time I saw him he was after me like a ferret up a drainpipe - I [italic]do[/italic] like a skinhead. As for new houses, when I am Queen every council will be building new homes and each will be made out of cheap wood or plastic and all the little people in the land will say, 'We love our Wendy Houses!' - and if they don't, that'll be another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
Provocative pouting princess Wendy Alexander said, "That old Norman Tebbit, eh? Last time I saw him he was after me like a ferret up a drainpipe - I
do like a skinhead. As for new houses, when I am Queen every council will be building new homes and each will be made out of cheap wood or plastic and all the little people in the land will say, 'We love our Wendy Houses!' - and if they don't, that'll be another broken promise the SNP failed to keep."
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 10:10am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Donald Anderson[/bold] wrote:
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.[/quote] DONALD ANDERSON
Still boring us three times over then Donnie boy...Donnie Boy...Donnie Boy !!!
Donald Anderson wrote:
Good for the Scottish Government for doing what British Labour did not have the bottle to do. You cannot blame individuals for buying their Council homes, only the British Government for refusing to build more public housing. The SSHA inevitably became another jobs for the Labour boys and girls with figure juggling and funny money coming from elsewhere to fund their own incompetenece.
DONALD ANDERSON
Still boring us three times over then Donnie boy...Donnie Boy...Donnie Boy !!!
Posted by: John, Glasgow on 10:26am Sun 21 Oct 07
Stable door horse and bolted spring to mind. What's left of the council stock, nobody wants to buy it anyway.
Stable door horse and bolted spring to mind. What's left of the council stock, nobody wants to buy it anyway.
Posted by: Tax payer, Glasgow on 10:33am Sun 21 Oct 07
Great idea! RTB policy depletes stock of affordable housing for people in need at a given time in a given circumstance. And why should I support tenants (some of who are on state benefits) to buy a house at below market value when I cannot afford to buy on the free market? The policy is unfair to the majority of the population who work very very hard to pay their own rent or mortgage, council tax, income tax etc.
Great idea! RTB policy depletes stock of affordable housing for people in need at a given time in a given circumstance. And why should I support tenants (some of who are on state benefits) to buy a house at below market value when I cannot afford to buy on the free market? The policy is unfair to the majority of the population who work very very hard to pay their own rent or mortgage, council tax, income tax etc.
Posted by: Seumas, Tain on 10:51am Sun 21 Oct 07
12 years ago i bought my modest bungalow for £50,000--My wife's friend bought their council property(three bedrooms) for £12,000.
Fellow who worked with me bought his aged parents house for £14,000
as an investment, now let out to folk who can't get social housing and worth £120,000--something not right here!!
12 years ago i bought my modest bungalow for £50,000--My wife's friend bought their council property(three bedrooms) for £12,000.
Fellow who worked with me bought his aged parents house for £14,000
as an investment, now let out to folk who can't get social housing and worth £120,000--something not right here!!
Posted by: Tax payer, Glasgow on 11:31am Sun 21 Oct 07
You said it Seumas. Still, don't expect the government to do anything about that: they don't like to upset the status quo.
Don't get me started on second homes!
You said it Seumas. Still, don't expect the government to do anything about that: they don't like to upset the status quo.
Don't get me started on second homes!
Posted by: James d on 11:44am Sun 21 Oct 07
I am sure this will be welcomed by all those deadlegs in the public sector, who are doing so much to hold Scotland. People who have never taken a risk in their miserable little lives.
I am sure this will be welcomed by all those deadlegs in the public sector, who are doing so much to hold Scotland. People who have never taken a risk in their miserable little lives.
Posted by: Maria Regina on 11:50am Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Scunnert[/bold] wrote:
I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?[/quote] I paid rent for several years to someone with a buy to let mortagage - should I now own part of her house?
Scunnert wrote:
I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?
I paid rent for several years to someone with a buy to let mortagage - should I now own part of her house?
Posted by: Arnold Codger on 11:58am Sun 21 Oct 07
This policy will only apply to social housing that is built in the future. I heard on Radio Scotland this morning that only 6 social houses were built in Scotland last year.
This policy will only apply to social housing that is built in the future. I heard on Radio Scotland this morning that only 6 social houses were built in Scotland last year.
Posted by: Iain on 12:25pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]MsJ[/bold] wrote:
The original Right to Buy did not take into account the number of houses that would be bought, not by tenants, but by their families not even living there as a future investment when parents died. The number of properties where that was the case is too many to count. I always felt that RTB legislation should have been tighter in that respect. If a tenant wasn't able to purchase in their own right, no one else should have been able to do it for them, use their discount in the purchase, and then profit shamelessly at a later date. There were other flaws too of course. The proceeds from sales did'nt go to Councils, but to central Government, and Councils were still left with the debt associated with these sold properties. It was a mess. The main thing tho, was that Councils stopped building houses, all the good properties were sold off and...........that's how we ended up where we are now. [/quote] A fair point but for many people, lower income families in particular, right to buy has been the only possible means for them to get onto the property ladder, even more so now with house prices spiralling skyward.
Perhaps tighter controls on right to buy rather than a blanket abolition would be more appropriate but ultimately the only real solution is to build more houses accross the board to drive prices down.
MsJ wrote:
The original Right to Buy did not take into account the number of houses that would be bought, not by tenants, but by their families not even living there as a future investment when parents died. The number of properties where that was the case is too many to count. I always felt that RTB legislation should have been tighter in that respect. If a tenant wasn't able to purchase in their own right, no one else should have been able to do it for them, use their discount in the purchase, and then profit shamelessly at a later date. There were other flaws too of course. The proceeds from sales did'nt go to Councils, but to central Government, and Councils were still left with the debt associated with these sold properties. It was a mess. The main thing tho, was that Councils stopped building houses, all the good properties were sold off and...........that's how we ended up where we are now.
A fair point but for many people, lower income families in particular, right to buy has been the only possible means for them to get onto the property ladder, even more so now with house prices spiralling skyward.
Perhaps tighter controls on right to buy rather than a blanket abolition would be more appropriate but ultimately the only real solution is to build more houses accross the board to drive prices down.
Posted by: Iain on 12:29pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Maria Regina[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Scunnert[/bold] wrote: I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?[/quote] I paid rent for several years to someone with a buy to let mortagage - should I now own part of her house?[/quote] An interesting thought. What too of all the buy to let landlords who are profiting from housing benefit payments - this is more than likely increased as a result of decline in council house stock making it impossible for many people to get a council house given the size of waiting lists in some areas.
Maria Regina wrote:
Scunnert wrote: I agree that the right to buy was a made a mess. But if folks in council estates are to be treated fairly some kind of equity sharing is called for. They have, after all, paid the (council's) mortgage, in most cases, for many, many years! Are they to end up with nothing?
I paid rent for several years to someone with a buy to let mortagage - should I now own part of her house?
An interesting thought. What too of all the buy to let landlords who are profiting from housing benefit payments - this is more than likely increased as a result of decline in council house stock making it impossible for many people to get a council house given the size of waiting lists in some areas.
Posted by: Tax payer, Glasgow on 12:57pm Sun 21 Oct 07
"ultimately the only real solution is to build more houses accross the board to drive prices down." and "buy to let landlords who are profiting from housing benefit payments"
Unfortunately, Iain - it's more likely to be the property investors/buy to let landlords who'd benefit from more house building... I think prices would still be too expensive for first-time buyers to get on ladder. Unless the government takes effective measures to deter this activity (unlikely), I don't think building more houses in enough.
"ultimately the only real solution is to build more houses accross the board to drive prices down." and "buy to let landlords who are profiting from housing benefit payments"
Unfortunately, Iain - it's more likely to be the property investors/buy to let landlords who'd benefit from more house building... I think prices would still be too expensive for first-time buyers to get on ladder. Unless the government takes effective measures to deter this activity (unlikely), I don't think building more houses in enough.
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 12:59pm Sun 21 Oct 07
When RTB was seen as the best thing since sliced bread I remember someone buying a cottage near Edinburgh (Swanston?) where Robert Louis Stevenson once lived. It would be interesting to re-visit that and find out how much the owner (the Council) got then and how often and for how much it has been sold since then.
On the other side of the coin there must be thousands who bought their LA houses and now are trapped in Buckfast-ridden coups with no chance of selling up.
When RTB was seen as the best thing since sliced bread I remember someone buying a cottage near Edinburgh (Swanston?) where Robert Louis Stevenson once lived. It would be interesting to re-visit that and find out how much the owner (the Council) got then and how often and for how much it has been sold since then.
On the other side of the coin there must be thousands who bought their LA houses and now are trapped in Buckfast-ridden coups with no chance of selling up.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:02pm Sun 21 Oct 07
This policy condemns thousands to live in rought council estates with little prospect of improvement .
Taxpayer at 12.57 is right - only building new housese will increase supply and forece down prices but trendy left liberals and thick Labour politician keep blocking planning consents.
This policy condemns thousands to live in rought council estates with little prospect of improvement .
Taxpayer at 12.57 is right - only building new housese will increase supply and forece down prices but trendy left liberals and thick Labour politician keep blocking planning consents.
Posted by: Niall Aslen, Cairnbulg Aberdeenshire on 1:13pm Sun 21 Oct 07
At long last, A breath of fresh air. Our Councils can now build social housing without the fear that long time tenants can move into a new £150k house and later buy it a huge discount. My Niece, her man and their three children who have been living in a 12 foot by 7 foot caravan for the past 15 years may now have a chance of a decent home. Now all we need now is some way of bringing all these so called holiday homes into the social housing sector.
'S mise
Niall.
At long last, A breath of fresh air. Our Councils can now build social housing without the fear that long time tenants can move into a new £150k house and later buy it a huge discount. My Niece, her man and their three children who have been living in a 12 foot by 7 foot caravan for the past 15 years may now have a chance of a decent home. Now all we need now is some way of bringing all these so called holiday homes into the social housing sector.
'S mise
Niall.
Posted by: The Watcher, central on 2:00pm Sun 21 Oct 07
All very well and good.
But when RTB was brought in, bad maintenance of council properties was an ongoing complaint, and the time taken to get anything done, nothing changes.
All the better council houses bought by the sitting tenants were in the main looked after and maintained by the tenants as a matter of pride.
As tenants, they lived in fear of the council mass refurbishment of an area. They get moved out to a tip and move back to a bomb site. Personal experience of an old couple a few doors away.
No wonder they would buy the property if they could.
And look around your own area, how many houses has the COUNCIL sold off or bulldozed because even the "desperate" could not be conned into taking them on.
And the other Thatcher idea of getting rid of the Labour party council controlled Ghetto's , and get people to think that there are other things to vote for than Labour, and she was right!
And the management of the council estates,in fact, all council areas of activity must be run fairly and professionally, most labour councils, and some of the others, couldnt be trusted to run a bath.
All very well and good.
But when RTB was brought in, bad maintenance of council properties was an ongoing complaint, and the time taken to get anything done, nothing changes.
All the better council houses bought by the sitting tenants were in the main looked after and maintained by the tenants as a matter of pride.
As tenants, they lived in fear of the council mass refurbishment of an area. They get moved out to a tip and move back to a bomb site. Personal experience of an old couple a few doors away.
No wonder they would buy the property if they could.
And look around your own area, how many houses has the COUNCIL sold off or bulldozed because even the "desperate" could not be conned into taking them on.
And the other Thatcher idea of getting rid of the Labour party council controlled Ghetto's , and get people to think that there are other things to vote for than Labour, and she was right!
And the management of the council estates,in fact, all council areas of activity must be run fairly and professionally, most labour councils, and some of the others, couldnt be trusted to run a bath.
Posted by: The Watcher, central on 2:00pm Sun 21 Oct 07
All very well and good.
But when RTB was brought in, bad maintenance of council properties was an ongoing complaint, and the time taken to get anything done, nothing changes.
All the better council houses bought by the sitting tenants were in the main looked after and maintained by the tenants as a matter of pride.
As tenants, they lived in fear of the council mass refurbishment of an area. They get moved out to a tip and move back to a bomb site. Personal experience of an old couple a few doors away.
No wonder they would buy the property if they could.
And look around your own area, how many houses has the COUNCIL sold off or bulldozed because even the "desperate" could not be conned into taking them on.
And the other Thatcher idea of getting rid of the Labour party council controlled Ghetto's , and get people to think that there are other things to vote for than Labour, and she was right!
And the management of the council estates,in fact, all council areas of activity must be run fairly and professionally, most labour councils, and some of the others, couldnt be trusted to run a bath.
All very well and good.
But when RTB was brought in, bad maintenance of council properties was an ongoing complaint, and the time taken to get anything done, nothing changes.
All the better council houses bought by the sitting tenants were in the main looked after and maintained by the tenants as a matter of pride.
As tenants, they lived in fear of the council mass refurbishment of an area. They get moved out to a tip and move back to a bomb site. Personal experience of an old couple a few doors away.
No wonder they would buy the property if they could.
And look around your own area, how many houses has the COUNCIL sold off or bulldozed because even the "desperate" could not be conned into taking them on.
And the other Thatcher idea of getting rid of the Labour party council controlled Ghetto's , and get people to think that there are other things to vote for than Labour, and she was right!
And the management of the council estates,in fact, all council areas of activity must be run fairly and professionally, most labour councils, and some of the others, couldnt be trusted to run a bath.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 2:12pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Tremendous! Once again the NEW SNP GOVERNMENT
have shown the NEW LABOUR scumbags the way to go, and undercut at a stroke, any notion - absurd as it was that NEW LABOUR was in any way shape or form a socialist Party. More sociopathic than socialist!!
The fact that the new policy is being castigated by that animal Tebbitt tells you all you need to know. Poor Wendy and her band of crooks are being made more absurd by the moment! Hahhahah
Tremendous! Once again the NEW SNP GOVERNMENT
have shown the NEW LABOUR scumbags the way to go, and undercut at a stroke, any notion - absurd as it was that NEW LABOUR was in any way shape or form a socialist Party. More sociopathic than socialist!!
The fact that the new policy is being castigated by that animal Tebbitt tells you all you need to know. Poor Wendy and her band of crooks are being made more absurd by the moment! Hahhahah
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 2:20pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Well the people voted with their feet when Thatcher introduced the right to buy. She was clever enough to starve the councils of funding prior to this ensuring basic repairs could not be carried out. Add to this councils deliberately dumping anti-social tenents on established communities added to the disallusion amongst tenents thus the clamour to buy. Also some youngsters hoping to make a good profit when their parents snuffed it. Old Maggie was on a winner.The SNP SHOULD BUILD NEW HOMES FOR SALE AT AFFORDABLE PRICES.Just enough profit made to give the tax payer their money back. Do not build more Council Ghettos.[bold]bold[/bold]
Well the people voted with their feet when Thatcher introduced the right to buy. She was clever enough to starve the councils of funding prior to this ensuring basic repairs could not be carried out. Add to this councils deliberately dumping anti-social tenents on established communities added to the disallusion amongst tenents thus the clamour to buy. Also some youngsters hoping to make a good profit when their parents snuffed it. Old Maggie was on a winner.The SNP SHOULD BUILD NEW HOMES FOR SALE AT AFFORDABLE PRICES.Just enough profit made to give the tax payer their money back. Do not build more Council Ghettos.
Posted by: Charles Hand, Edinburgh on 3:11pm Sun 21 Oct 07
I think that council and housing association owned housing are the problem and not the solution. If no property was owned by the state, then the costs of rent could be provided to those who genuinely need to be paid for by the state, together with the guarantee that the property owners would be reimbursed for any damage to their property. The state should instead focus its efforts on encouraging the private sector to redevelop run down single tier estates and brown field sites into modern sustainable and multi tier communities with a wealth of facilities. And to do this at a dramatically accelerated rate than is the case at the moment, hindered in part by 1940's planning legislation, so that the market demand for the type of housing that it seeks is met and the cost of housing falls dramatically.
I think that council and housing association owned housing are the problem and not the solution. If no property was owned by the state, then the costs of rent could be provided to those who genuinely need to be paid for by the state, together with the guarantee that the property owners would be reimbursed for any damage to their property. The state should instead focus its efforts on encouraging the private sector to redevelop run down single tier estates and brown field sites into modern sustainable and multi tier communities with a wealth of facilities. And to do this at a dramatically accelerated rate than is the case at the moment, hindered in part by 1940's planning legislation, so that the market demand for the type of housing that it seeks is met and the cost of housing falls dramatically.
Posted by: boudica, Glasgow on 3:13pm Sun 21 Oct 07
They should scrap the Buy to Let P[[olicy as well as these are ridiculous as these people then rent out these properties for ridicoulous amounts so has they can buy more and if things keep going the way they are a big crash is on the way
They should scrap the Buy to Let P[[olicy as well as these are ridiculous as these people then rent out these properties for ridicoulous amounts so has they can buy more and if things keep going the way they are a big crash is on the way
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:44pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Folks living in the depressed housing schemes of the de-industrialised heartland of Scotland have few options in life. They can't afford to leave the scheme to look for work elsewhere because they can't afford market rents.
I was brought up to view property as theft, and still believe in social housing. However, the aparatchicks of local councils allowed our housing stock to deteriorate and the Tories allowed the best of it to be sold off. The folks left in these ghetos need some help to get out and get on with life instead of being castigated as anti-social, boozing, benefit scroungers.
Give them some equity - they paid for it.
As far as new builds are concerned - no more housing schemes please. Let's have social housing as part of all new developments.
Folks living in the depressed housing schemes of the de-industrialised heartland of Scotland have few options in life. They can't afford to leave the scheme to look for work elsewhere because they can't afford market rents.
I was brought up to view property as theft, and still believe in social housing. However, the aparatchicks of local councils allowed our housing stock to deteriorate and the Tories allowed the best of it to be sold off. The folks left in these ghetos need some help to get out and get on with life instead of being castigated as anti-social, boozing, benefit scroungers.
Give them some equity - they paid for it.
As far as new builds are concerned - no more housing schemes please. Let's have social housing as part of all new developments.
Posted by: Seumas on 4:15pm Sun 21 Oct 07
I hope the government has the courage to carry out the reversal of the right to buy.Like everywhere else down here in Ayrshire all the good housing stock has been sold off and only the difficult to let is left to offer for rent from the local authorities.My brother has only just bought my mother's house one of the last in her street still in public ownership using her as a proxy buyer.He has no intention of occupying this house and already has made a substantial profit with the discount.His investment is risk free, if my mother needs residential care in the future their lawyer has made provision for such an eventuality protecting his investment.My mother receives social services support from the local authority and I really do feel that the original idea which I opposed in the first place is long overdue for repeal.Meanwhile many of the younger family members are faced with little chance of housing because they like most down here are earning the minimum wage and have little prospect of getting a mortgage.
I hope the government has the courage to carry out the reversal of the right to buy.Like everywhere else down here in Ayrshire all the good housing stock has been sold off and only the difficult to let is left to offer for rent from the local authorities.My brother has only just bought my mother's house one of the last in her street still in public ownership using her as a proxy buyer.He has no intention of occupying this house and already has made a substantial profit with the discount.His investment is risk free, if my mother needs residential care in the future their lawyer has made provision for such an eventuality protecting his investment.My mother receives social services support from the local authority and I really do feel that the original idea which I opposed in the first place is long overdue for repeal.Meanwhile many of the younger family members are faced with little chance of housing because they like most down here are earning the minimum wage and have little prospect of getting a mortgage.
Posted by: Billd, Glasgow on 4:33pm Sun 21 Oct 07
I live in a GHA property, if the SNP stop the right to buy from councils will I still keep my legal right because it was transfered to a housing association?
If the SNP do this it will alienate alot of the poorer working class and turn them against the SNP.
If they bring this in, I will campaign against the SNP in Govan and I will cost Sturgeon her seat.
I live in a GHA property, if the SNP stop the right to buy from councils will I still keep my legal right because it was transfered to a housing association?
If the SNP do this it will alienate alot of the poorer working class and turn them against the SNP.
If they bring this in, I will campaign against the SNP in Govan and I will cost Sturgeon her seat.
Posted by: Brian Blessed, Glasgow on 4:40pm Sun 21 Oct 07
[bold]Billd:[/bold] Have you actually read the article? RTB will be withdrawn from [bold]new tenants[/bold] only. If you are currently a GHA tenant, you simply carry on under the old rules.
But I am impressed by your confidence in your election campaigning abilities.
Billd: Have you actually read the article? RTB will be withdrawn from
new tenants only. If you are currently a GHA tenant, you simply carry on under the old rules.
But I am impressed by your confidence in your election campaigning abilities.
Posted by: David Alexander on 4:51pm Sun 21 Oct 07
The Herald can even manage to muster Norman Tebbit to rant against the SNP.
VERY impressive.
The Herald can even manage to muster Norman Tebbit to rant against the SNP.
VERY impressive.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 5:40pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Maw I want to buy yer hoose. But it isnae mine son. Its a cooncil hoose. It was built tae get people like me oot ae poverty away fae they rat infested east end tenements. Tae gae us a better life. The hoose should go tae a person with similar circumstances when I die. Look maw if we dont buy the house someone else will, its the law. Dae ye want some wan else tae buy this hoose when ye die. It should stay in the family and you will not have to PAY ANY RENT. OK SON Yer right. Thatcher Won, Punters Nil. Ye see Socialism is Deid and Buried.[bold]bold[/bold]
Maw I want to buy yer hoose. But it isnae mine son. Its a cooncil hoose. It was built tae get people like me oot ae poverty away fae they rat infested east end tenements. Tae gae us a better life. The hoose should go tae a person with similar circumstances when I die. Look maw if we dont buy the house someone else will, its the law. Dae ye want some wan else tae buy this hoose when ye die. It should stay in the family and you will not have to PAY ANY RENT. OK SON Yer right. Thatcher Won, Punters Nil. Ye see Socialism is Deid and Buried.
Posted by: Gary Hart, Glasgow on 7:06pm Sun 21 Oct 07
If the SNP deliver on this promise I will vote for them for the rest of my life.
They truly have taken on the mantle of helping the homeless and the poor.
The tasks that the Labour Party used to carry out.
The reason why generations of Scots voted Labour at every election.
I await confirmation that the SNP executive will deliver. If they do, they can count on my support at every election...
If the SNP deliver on this promise I will vote for them for the rest of my life.
They truly have taken on the mantle of helping the homeless and the poor.
The tasks that the Labour Party used to carry out.
The reason why generations of Scots voted Labour at every election.
I await confirmation that the SNP executive will deliver. If they do, they can count on my support at every election...
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 10:04pm Sun 21 Oct 07
This could be fantastic for the country. We obviously need more houses and I hope the quality of these new houses is going to be suitable for the confident and prosperous citizens of an independent Scotland. We need to invest in the population now so that people are ready to play their full part in the country's exciting future.
The SNP are proving that they are Scotland's party.
This could be fantastic for the country. We obviously need more houses and I hope the quality of these new houses is going to be suitable for the confident and prosperous citizens of an independent Scotland. We need to invest in the population now so that people are ready to play their full part in the country's exciting future.
The SNP are proving that they are Scotland's party.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 10:07pm Sun 21 Oct 07
The Option to Buy would be a better name, and we'd want a better run scheme rather than a tory scam.
People have different priorities. In general, us Scots prefer not be run by large bureaucracies whether corporate or government. If owning and maintaining your own home means alot to you, it should be possible.
Market values need questioning. My house, which I'm selling as it's altogether too large, is the same value to me as it was 10 years - with some improvements, and some wear and tear. My mother's little car, 8 years old, imo, runs better than when new, the paintwork is good, the mechanicals reliable. Its value is a few £100s.
With some creative geography this house is sited on the "West Coast" and would cost you + £50,000. How do young locals in search of a home manage?
Light lambs, 1000s of them, have no market value. So they'll be buried in the ground. We couldn't put then into deep freezes and distribute them to needy people, could we?
The Option to Buy would be a better name, and we'd want a better run scheme rather than a tory scam.
People have different priorities. In general, us Scots prefer not be run by large bureaucracies whether corporate or government. If owning and maintaining your own home means alot to you, it should be possible.
Market values need questioning. My house, which I'm selling as it's altogether too large, is the same value to me as it was 10 years - with some improvements, and some wear and tear. My mother's little car, 8 years old, imo, runs better than when new, the paintwork is good, the mechanicals reliable. Its value is a few £100s.
With some creative geography this house is sited on the "West Coast" and would cost you + £50,000. How do young locals in search of a home manage?
Light lambs, 1000s of them, have no market value. So they'll be buried in the ground. We couldn't put then into deep freezes and distribute them to needy people, could we?
Posted by: Scamp on 10:10pm Sun 21 Oct 07
If this policy could also lead to compulsory land purchase then it would also prevent landowners making huge windfall profits from even small parcels of land.. Nowadays a plot for a small house will cost anything up to £100k!
If this policy could also lead to compulsory land purchase then it would also prevent landowners making huge windfall profits from even small parcels of land.. Nowadays a plot for a small house will cost anything up to £100k!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 10:35pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Alex porter, MADRID.That is probably the best load of bull I have heard in years. Are you called the HAW HAW Man!! Maybe the progressive SNP and the other lot of progressives will stop claiming expenses at our expense and stop being private landlords to serve their own ends. Now is that not progressive![bold]bold[/bold]
Alex porter, MADRID.That is probably the best load of bull I have heard in years. Are you called the HAW HAW Man!! Maybe the progressive SNP and the other lot of progressives will stop claiming expenses at our expense and stop being private landlords to serve their own ends. Now is that not progressive!
Posted by: Stevie on 10:49pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Social housing should REMAIN social housing. It was built with public money, for the use of those who need it most...the public.
WELL DONE SNP, at last some common sense.
Now, lets start building MORE of it.
Social housing should REMAIN social housing. It was built with public money, for the use of those who need it most...the public.
WELL DONE SNP, at last some common sense.
Now, lets start building MORE of it.
Posted by: Craig, Glasgow on 11:33pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Why don't the council get rid of all the staff that do nothing and get them building more affordable housing?
We pay more council tax in Glasgow than in London. Barcelona pay less than a 100 quid per year for council tax, enough said.
Why don't the council get rid of all the staff that do nothing and get them building more affordable housing?
We pay more council tax in Glasgow than in London. Barcelona pay less than a 100 quid per year for council tax, enough said.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:45pm Sun 21 Oct 07
Bitter and personal Graham. As the saying goes 'they don't like it up them.'
Bitter and personal Graham. As the saying goes 'they don't like it up them.'
Posted by: John Gallacher, Dunfermline on 12:09am Mon 22 Oct 07
On the subject of taxes - would it not be better to have one Scottish citizens tax that would cover paye,ni,council tax etc.. No govt. would ever implement this as we would all suddenly realise how much we are taxed!!!!
On the subject of taxes - would it not be better to have one Scottish citizens tax that would cover paye,ni,council tax etc.. No govt. would ever implement this as we would all suddenly realise how much we are taxed!!!!
Posted by: Craig, Glasgow on 12:09am Mon 22 Oct 07
The real reason why this has happened is 'cause housing in Scotland is well overvalued for most young couples and the only way to get on the ladder is to have a wayne then goto the homeless and get a flat from the council and hope you get right to buy at a nice discount and us daft council tax payers have to fit the bill and pay for all the lazy staff and other quango outlets doing nothing on top. Time to vote with my feet.
Everyone on here moaning, don't know why - is it not banana republic here? Will this ever happen? Where is the local income tax?
The buy to let,stock market boom is all funded with borrowed money, I would be surprised if it can last much longer, any buy toileters with new build flats better head for the hills
The real reason why this has happened is 'cause housing in Scotland is well overvalued for most young couples and the only way to get on the ladder is to have a wayne then goto the homeless and get a flat from the council and hope you get right to buy at a nice discount and us daft council tax payers have to fit the bill and pay for all the lazy staff and other quango outlets doing nothing on top. Time to vote with my feet.
Everyone on here moaning, don't know why - is it not banana republic here? Will this ever happen? Where is the local income tax?
The buy to let,stock market boom is all funded with borrowed money, I would be surprised if it can last much longer, any buy toileters with new build flats better head for the hills
Posted by: John Gallacher, Dunfermline on 12:10am Mon 22 Oct 07
On the subject of taxes - would it not be better to have one Scottish citizens tax that would cover paye,ni,council tax etc.. No govt. would ever implement this as we would all suddenly realise how much we are taxed!!!!
On the subject of taxes - would it not be better to have one Scottish citizens tax that would cover paye,ni,council tax etc.. No govt. would ever implement this as we would all suddenly realise how much we are taxed!!!!
Posted by: Craig, Glasgow on 12:18am Mon 22 Oct 07
John,
No chance of that, labour likes to keep income tax lowish for headline grabber then keep bumping up indirect taxes like fuel tax etc then buy some cheap votes with family/working tax credits while robbing us for council tax to pay for a load of staff that don't exist, more votes, more old labour pals act.
Far tougher times ahead I think.
John,
No chance of that, labour likes to keep income tax lowish for headline grabber then keep bumping up indirect taxes like fuel tax etc then buy some cheap votes with family/working tax credits while robbing us for council tax to pay for a load of staff that don't exist, more votes, more old labour pals act.
Far tougher times ahead I think.
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