Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders THERE HAS been a strange synchronicity to the dodgy donations affairs north and south of the Border. And it is becoming clear this weekend that the Scottish situation is the more dangerous one for Labour now that serious questions are being raised about the future of Wendy Alexander.
WENDYGATE
| The donors | | Who gave to Wendy's campaign ... and the members of the team who brought in the cash |
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If Labour's Scottish leader has to resign, would Harriet Harman, the party chairman who also received an illegal donation, have to consider her position? The Conservatives will surely say she should. And where would that leave Gordon Brown?
It seems incredible that Wendy Alexander's job could be at risk over £950 raised for a leadership election that never took place, but stranger things have happened. Henry McLeish had to resign as first minister over a financial muddle, which not only didn't break the law, it didn't even break the Westminster allowances rules, under whose jurisdiction the offence occurred. He sub-let rooms in his Fife constituency office, you may recall, and failed to declare the revenues raised. But nobody suggested Henry was corrupt or had acted illegally.
The dangerous thing for Alexander is that law-breaking now seems to be almost tacitly accepted in the wake of the resignation of Labour fundraiser Charlie Gordon, who we now know accepted two illegal donations from the tax-exile property developer Paul Green. Moreover, it is clear that Alexander was fully involved with the arrangement and even wrote a letter of thanks to Green. This paper's revelations today that there was another dodgy donation, and that Alexander almost certainly knew about the questionable provenance of the Green donation a month ago, must surely be the final straw. You can't claim to be an intellectual "master of detail" and not notice your own election campaign is systematically breaking the law.
The Scottish press believe they were sold a pack of lies about the donation last week, and are in unforgiving mood. The atmosphere in Holyrood on Thursday was like a cross between Watergate and The Devil Wears Prada, as a well-dressed Alexander was chased through the Garden Lobby by a posse of journalists. They even camped outside the office of transport minister and donation go-between Charlie Gordon, until he emerged to resign.
Not even Henry McLeish's officegate affair caused such fevered excitement. This is because the stakes are higher. With an SNP government now in office, the implosion of the main opposition leadership becomes a very serious matter indeed. The union itself could be at stake, not just one politician's job.
Alex Salmond has been wearing a smirk the size of the Forth Bridge - and with good cause: all the pressure has been taken off his government at the very moment when his honeymoon period as first minister seemed to be wearing off. Only six weeks ago, people were talking about how a combination of Gordon Brown in Westminster and Alexander in Holyrood could be enough to halt Scottish nationalism in its tracks. How could she possibly fail?
Well, fail she has. Since she became leader she has lost two spin doctors in as many months; serious questions have been raised about her temperament and her leadership skills; and she has been on the losing side of parliamentary encounters with Salmond. The SNP are getting away with budgetary murder and scrapping pledges across the board. Her fightback speech, calling for a constitutional commission on more powers for Holyrood, was totally eclipsed by the donation row. It doesn't get much worse than this.
Though they differ in financial scale, the donations scandals in Westminster and Holyrood are essentially the same, for they centre on the party's curious relationship with businessmen. The expat property developer Paul Green, who made the illegal donation to Alexander's fighting fund, was a mate of Charlie Gordon's from his days as Glasgow council leader. Green had made a mint from shopping developments around Glasgow. The man behind the Westminster proxygate affair, David Abrahams, possibly acting for another business interest, was also involved in a highly lucrative business park project which needed special government approval to be granted planning permission.
Nobody is saying that there is anything corrupt in these dealings. However, Labour's attempts at a cover-up suggest that the party felt there was something faintly indecent about the arrangements. Why were the donations for Alexander's campaign raised anonymously? Why were they kept under the £1000 limit, so that they did not need to be declared? Why was David Abrahams allowed to donate, illegally, through proxies? Why the secrecy?
Brown made absolutely clear when he became party leader that Labour had to get its house in order. This is why Alexander's donations scandal is so damaging for the prime minister: this has all taken place since Brown came to office, and she is his protégée. This cannot be laid at the door of Tony Blair, in the way the Abrahams proxy donations arguably could be.
What is emerging is a systemic failure in Labour to police its own regulations. It is truly astonishing that more than a decade after the Nolan inquiry into standards in public life, we are still discovering new dimensions of sleaze, and that it should be Labour who is responsible for them. Labour created a whole raft of new rules against abuse of political donations, and the sale of public honours, and then broke them.
The fact that these practices were also taking place in the Scottish party should, I suppose, not surprise us. But given the Holyrood history of expenses scandals, you wonder how they could have been so irresponsible as to fail to observe due diligence over a few hundred quid. The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end.
The most perplexing thing about the entire donations affair is its pointlessness. This has been an exercise in wanton self-destruction by a party that has lost the capacity to think and act responsibly. I'm afraid the only conclusion is that, north and south of the Border, Labour have lost the plot.
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Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 8:57pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Nothing much to add to the article.
However on another thread I have pointed out that on Saturday the BBC News website editor decided that the most important political news item in Scotland was the decision by the SNP to formally work with the Tories at local government level.
The illegal donations including Wendy Alexander's letter to Green was relegated to third in line of importance.
The BBC also used a slightly misleading headline ([bold]SNP approves working with Tories[/bold] ) giving a false impression that the decision included Holyrood.
One could be forgiven for thinking that the BBC were attempting to bury the bad news for Labour whilst at the same time mischievously implying a coalition between the SNP and Tories at Holyrood.
Nothing much to add to the article.
However on another thread I have pointed out that on Saturday the BBC News website editor decided that the most important political news item in Scotland was the decision by the SNP to formally work with the Tories at local government level.
The illegal donations including Wendy Alexander's letter to Green was relegated to third in line of importance.
The BBC also used a slightly misleading headline (
SNP approves working with Tories ) giving a false impression that the decision included Holyrood.
One could be forgiven for thinking that the BBC were attempting to bury the bad news for Labour whilst at the same time mischievously implying a coalition between the SNP and Tories at Holyrood.
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly on 9:06pm Sat 1 Dec 07
George
a very misleading headline indeed as the decision at National Council was to allow local council groups to work with [bold]all parties[/bold] - subject to National Executive approval.
George
a very misleading headline indeed as the decision at National Council was to allow local council groups to work with
all parties - subject to National Executive approval.
Posted by: I'm no really here on 9:20pm Sat 1 Dec 07
I was of the opinion that Bendy Wendy shouldn't resign because she is such an asset to the SNP, but if she does it will cause one hell of a knock-on effect in England. Great stuff.
I was of the opinion that Bendy Wendy shouldn't resign because she is such an asset to the SNP, but if she does it will cause one hell of a knock-on effect in England. Great stuff.
Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 9:22pm Sat 1 Dec 07
I have just checked the BBC website - unbelievable!
I may complain to the BBC but I am sick of receiving their patronising letters acknowledging my legitimate complaint and promising to do better. I suggest we keep all these lying letters from the BBC and produce an historical archive.
I now watch channel4 news, however roll on a Scottish Six.
Ms. Alexander, Mr Gordon and Mr McCabe should all resign immediately from the Scottish Parliament.
A huttonesque investigation must not be allowed to succeed - laws have been broken and criminal charges must follow.
Finally a new wee saying "tell the Truth and shame the Labour party".
I have just checked the BBC website - unbelievable!
I may complain to the BBC but I am sick of receiving their patronising letters acknowledging my legitimate complaint and promising to do better. I suggest we keep all these lying letters from the BBC and produce an historical archive.
I now watch channel4 news, however roll on a Scottish Six.
Ms. Alexander, Mr Gordon and Mr McCabe should all resign immediately from the Scottish Parliament.
A huttonesque investigation must not be allowed to succeed - laws have been broken and criminal charges must follow.
Finally a new wee saying "tell the Truth and shame the Labour party".
Posted by: Maria Regina on 9:23pm Sat 1 Dec 07
"Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders" - "could"?
"Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders" - "could"?
Posted by: Glen (with one 'n') Campbell, East Edinburgh on 9:26pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote]Only six weeks ago, people were talking about how a combination of Gordon Brown in Westminster and Alexander in Holyrood could be enough to halt Scottish nationalism in its tracks.[/quote]
Iain Macwhirter always refers to himself as "people" when he gets it wrong. Apart from that, pretty good stuff.
[quote]two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown[/quote]
Then again...
Only six weeks ago, people were talking about how a combination of Gordon Brown in Westminster and Alexander in Holyrood could be enough to halt Scottish nationalism in its tracks.
Iain Macwhirter always refers to himself as "people" when he gets it wrong. Apart from that, pretty good stuff.
two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown
Then again...
Posted by: I'm no really here on 9:32pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote]Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders[/quote]
'Fraid that boat has already sailed Ian - typical of you to have missed it.
Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders
'Fraid that boat has already sailed Ian - typical of you to have missed it.
Posted by: Jimmie on 9:34pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Macwhirter writes "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end." This impeccable integrity is in doubt surely? Alexander has been briefing through her team about she had only just found out about the donation and then had to backtrack after her benefactor allowed the publication of her months old letter expressing gratitude for his donation. Brown tests belief in his integrity by claiming, as a micro-manager, that he knew nothing of the proxy practice until last Satutrday night when the General Secretary of his party was engaged systematically in the practice and his fund raiser (who is described everywhere as "very close" to Brown) confessed that he had also known of the practice for months but had not told his boss.
Macwhirter writes "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end." This impeccable integrity is in doubt surely? Alexander has been briefing through her team about she had only just found out about the donation and then had to backtrack after her benefactor allowed the publication of her months old letter expressing gratitude for his donation. Brown tests belief in his integrity by claiming, as a micro-manager, that he knew nothing of the proxy practice until last Satutrday night when the General Secretary of his party was engaged systematically in the practice and his fund raiser (who is described everywhere as "very close" to Brown) confessed that he had also known of the practice for months but had not told his boss.
Posted by: Jimbo on 9:47pm Sat 1 Dec 07
As George Alexander says:
Wendy seems to have slipped completely out of sight on their Scottish news page.
They did however manage to slip in "The Scottish budget of £30bn, handed down from London..... which is factual up to a point, as the budget is allocated by Westminster, but is worded in such a way as to propagate the myth that we are being subsidised by London.
On the subject of Labour's donations crimes:
Labour created a whole raft of new rules against abuse of political donations then did their utmost to find ways to circumvent these rules.
Regardless of the sums involved (and there may yet prove to be more in Scotland)the law has been broken and the full force of the law should be brought to bear on those involved.
Present day politicians seem to think they are above the law and that the laws they pass should only apply to us. The only way to get the message across to them is to make an example of those involved in this conspiracy that brought our parliament and country into disrepute.
The excuse 'I acted in good faith' doesn't wash anymore. The public are constantly told that ignorance of the law is no excuse. This maxim must also be applied to these politicians.
Who were their other secret donors? It's going to come out so they should be upfront now instead of further conspiring to deceive.
As George Alexander says:
Wendy seems to have slipped completely out of sight on their Scottish news page.
They did however manage to slip in "The Scottish budget of £30bn, handed down from London..... which is factual up to a point, as the budget is allocated by Westminster, but is worded in such a way as to propagate the myth that we are being subsidised by London.
On the subject of Labour's donations crimes:
Labour created a whole raft of new rules against abuse of political donations then did their utmost to find ways to circumvent these rules.
Regardless of the sums involved (and there may yet prove to be more in Scotland)the law has been broken and the full force of the law should be brought to bear on those involved.
Present day politicians seem to think they are above the law and that the laws they pass should only apply to us. The only way to get the message across to them is to make an example of those involved in this conspiracy that brought our parliament and country into disrepute.
The excuse 'I acted in good faith' doesn't wash anymore. The public are constantly told that ignorance of the law is no excuse. This maxim must also be applied to these politicians.
Who were their other secret donors? It's going to come out so they should be upfront now instead of further conspiring to deceive.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 10:09pm Sat 1 Dec 07
"The SNP are getting away with budgetary murder and scrapping pledges across the board. "
Macwhirter I think is suffering from a split personality. One week its all sweet reason and impartiality; the next week he reverts back to 'NuLab drone mode' echoing the same 'bwoken promithes' line of the London Labour party.
Heck, everyone knows why some manifesto commitments have had to be postponed - try trams and diminished block grant for starters. Let us have the oil revenues, Iain and you know fine well we can meet them all and so much more.
"Only six weeks ago, people were talking about how a combination of Gordon Brown in Westminster and Alexander in Holyrood could be enough to halt Scottish nationalism in its tracks. How could she possibly fail?"
Scottish Nationalism is a movement of many thousands of people that has been growing for decades. What people, where? Exactly how are this pair of individuals who have never had a proper job between them in their lives exactly going to halt it in in their tracks when so many other of the London 'red dawn' persuasion have failed. This is not journalism or analysis - it is pure dribble.
"The SNP are getting away with budgetary murder and scrapping pledges across the board. "
Macwhirter I think is suffering from a split personality. One week its all sweet reason and impartiality; the next week he reverts back to 'NuLab drone mode' echoing the same 'bwoken promithes' line of the London Labour party.
Heck, everyone knows why some manifesto commitments have had to be postponed - try trams and diminished block grant for starters. Let us have the oil revenues, Iain and you know fine well we can meet them all and so much more.
"Only six weeks ago, people were talking about how a combination of Gordon Brown in Westminster and Alexander in Holyrood could be enough to halt Scottish nationalism in its tracks. How could she possibly fail?"
Scottish Nationalism is a movement of many thousands of people that has been growing for decades. What people, where? Exactly how are this pair of individuals who have never had a proper job between them in their lives exactly going to halt it in in their tracks when so many other of the London 'red dawn' persuasion have failed. This is not journalism or analysis - it is pure dribble.
Posted by: I'm no really here on 10:17pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Well you don't expect BBC Scotland to be very pro-Sir Ek after what he said to them on St Andrews day.
Well you don't expect BBC Scotland to be very pro-Sir Ek after what he said to them on St Andrews day.
Posted by: John, Glasgow on 10:25pm Sat 1 Dec 07
art1000 very well said. It seems that when the chips are down no-one is allowed to sit on the fence. Iain is worried that the Union is actually under threat this time.
There is no more room for flirting with the SNP in harmless Sunday articles to try and get Labour to up their game as he has done recently, things are far too serious for that.
I knew he'd return to the fold when the time came, though even I didn't think it would come so soon.
art1000 very well said. It seems that when the chips are down no-one is allowed to sit on the fence. Iain is worried that the Union is actually under threat this time.
There is no more room for flirting with the SNP in harmless Sunday articles to try and get Labour to up their game as he has done recently, things are far too serious for that.
I knew he'd return to the fold when the time came, though even I didn't think it would come so soon.
Posted by: canofworms, Glasgow on 10:43pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Iain, what's wrong with you? "No one is saying there was anything corrupt in these dealings."?????? Alexander LIED! McCabe LIED! They said one minute that she knew nothing about it and the next minute Green produces a letter she sent to him personally? They sought donations from someone who legally could not donate. THAT is corrupt and for some of us it is clearly just the tip of the iceberg. Wake up Iain, holiday is over. Catch up! "Impeccable integrity." What planet did you holiday on?
Iain, what's wrong with you? "No one is saying there was anything corrupt in these dealings."?????? Alexander LIED! McCabe LIED! They said one minute that she knew nothing about it and the next minute Green produces a letter she sent to him personally? They sought donations from someone who legally could not donate. THAT is corrupt and for some of us it is clearly just the tip of the iceberg. Wake up Iain, holiday is over. Catch up! "Impeccable integrity." What planet did you holiday on?
Posted by: Doonhamer, Dumfries on 10:43pm Sat 1 Dec 07
This is not a ****-up, this is becoming more clear with every new revelation that this has been a conspiracy to avoid the regulation of the Electoral Commission followed by a cover up intended to hide the extent of the breach of law and those behind the breach. It reaches all the way up to the top and the only option left is the resignation of all concerned, including Gordon, McCabe and Alexander from Holyrood. This will allow the Labour Party to regain some semblence of respect and to move forward.
Gordon, McCabe and Alexander owe it to the party and to the nation to resign immediately. A series of by-elections will allow the Scottish people to pass judgement on the actions. An election of Labour MSP's in the by-elections would allow the Labour Party to claim an end tothe issue. An election of other party MSP's would signal the electorate's desire to hold the party accountable. Either way, democracy would be served and the issue dealt with.
Not doing so will only cause the larger demise of the Labour Party at a future date and will taint the remainer of the term of this Holyrood Parliament.
[bold]Do the right thing. Resign Charlie, Resign Tom and Resign Wendy.[/bold]
This is not a ****-up, this is becoming more clear with every new revelation that this has been a conspiracy to avoid the regulation of the Electoral Commission followed by a cover up intended to hide the extent of the breach of law and those behind the breach. It reaches all the way up to the top and the only option left is the resignation of all concerned, including Gordon, McCabe and Alexander from Holyrood. This will allow the Labour Party to regain some semblence of respect and to move forward.
Gordon, McCabe and Alexander owe it to the party and to the nation to resign immediately. A series of by-elections will allow the Scottish people to pass judgement on the actions. An election of Labour MSP's in the by-elections would allow the Labour Party to claim an end tothe issue. An election of other party MSP's would signal the electorate's desire to hold the party accountable. Either way, democracy would be served and the issue dealt with.
Not doing so will only cause the larger demise of the Labour Party at a future date and will taint the remainer of the term of this Holyrood Parliament.
Do the right thing. Resign Charlie, Resign Tom and Resign Wendy. Posted by: I'm no really here on 10:53pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Instead of the Herald Poll asking if she should resign or not, they would be better to ask if she will last the week.
Instead of the Herald Poll asking if she should resign or not, they would be better to ask if she will last the week.
Posted by: Cammie on 10:57pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Anyone know if I can lay a bet anywhere on Wendy's possible resignation ? I fancy a flutter.
Anyone know if I can lay a bet anywhere on Wendy's possible resignation ? I fancy a flutter.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:04pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Cammie[/bold] wrote:
Anyone know if I can lay a bet anywhere on Wendy\'s possible resignation ? I fancy a flutter.[/quote] I'll take yer money Cammie. How much were you thinking of? Wendy will need to be forced out, no matter what surfaces. She's New Labour don't ya know? lol
Cammie wrote:
Anyone know if I can lay a bet anywhere on Wendy\'s possible resignation ? I fancy a flutter.
I'll take yer money Cammie. How much were you thinking of? Wendy will need to be forced out, no matter what surfaces. She's New Labour don't ya know? lol
Posted by: nigel chambers on 11:08pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Are there actually sixteen people who still read this shameless joker ? Hard to believe, like his chums in the rich people's party. What a shower. McWhirter and le famille Alexander; the unacceptable face of Scotland.
Are there actually sixteen people who still read this shameless joker ? Hard to believe, like his chums in the rich people's party. What a shower. McWhirter and le famille Alexander; the unacceptable face of Scotland.
Posted by: I'm no really here on 11:15pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Looking at the poll. The values are changing by 0.1%, meaning that there are about 1000 votes already.
Who thinks she'll be gone before next week-end?
Looking at the poll. The values are changing by 0.1%, meaning that there are about 1000 votes already.
Who thinks she'll be gone before next week-end?
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 11:18pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Looking very bad for Labour and and every day brings more revelations of Labour's fit for purpose, best value in their version of best practice.
It's just been revealed that thousands of personal details supposedly held secure by the Department of Works & Pensions were held for more than a year by a former private contractor.
I wonder if any DWP client may have found it peculiar that there seemed to be an increase in unsolicited mail from private where ever interested in selling a must have whatever to themselves.
Just perusing the possibilities.
Looking very bad for Labour and and every day brings more revelations of Labour's fit for purpose, best value in their version of best practice.
It's just been revealed that thousands of personal details supposedly held secure by the Department of Works & Pensions were held for more than a year by a former private contractor.
I wonder if any DWP client may have found it peculiar that there seemed to be an increase in unsolicited mail from private where ever interested in selling a must have whatever to themselves.
Just perusing the possibilities.
Posted by: Cammie on 11:18pm Sat 1 Dec 07
nouveauxscum, howsabout £950 quid?
Ok I'm dreaming , I'm not in New Labour, will you take a fiver........
nouveauxscum, howsabout £950 quid?
Ok I'm dreaming , I'm not in New Labour, will you take a fiver........
Posted by: Glen (with one 'n') Campbell, 896-559 on 11:38pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament:
950/1 - Jackie Baillie
200/1 - George Foulkes
15/1 - Iain Gray
4/1 - Andy Kerr
Evens - Nicol Stephen
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament:
950/1 - Jackie Baillie
200/1 - George Foulkes
15/1 - Iain Gray
4/1 - Andy Kerr
Evens - Nicol Stephen
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:42pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Cammie[/bold] wrote:
nouveauxscum, howsabout £950 quid? Ok I'm dreaming , I'm not in New Labour, will you take a fiver........ [/quote] Ok let me see...17ooo / 5 = 3400 cheques....ehhhhh yeah no probs. Just make them out to a third party and eh...I'll send you a 'receipt' lol.
Cammie wrote:
nouveauxscum, howsabout £950 quid? Ok I'm dreaming , I'm not in New Labour, will you take a fiver........
Ok let me see...17ooo / 5 = 3400 cheques....ehhhhh yeah no probs. Just make them out to a third party and eh...I'll send you a 'receipt' lol.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:45pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Glen (with one 'n') Campbell[/bold] wrote:
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament: 950/1 - Jackie Baillie 200/1 - George Foulkes 15/1 - Iain Gray 4/1 - Andy Kerr Evens - Nicol Stephen[/quote] That's a fair array of talent and Nicol. I'll take the Baron at 200/1.
Glen (with one 'n') Campbell wrote:
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament: 950/1 - Jackie Baillie 200/1 - George Foulkes 15/1 - Iain Gray 4/1 - Andy Kerr Evens - Nicol Stephen
That's a fair array of talent and Nicol. I'll take the Baron at 200/1.
Posted by: martin, dundee on 11:58pm Sat 1 Dec 07
The headline on BBC news On-line is nothing more than news management.Who said the BBC were fair and impartial.
It is hard to trust these people at all.In fact who are the people at the BBC who decide what is an important headline and what is not.We have a right to know.
The headline on BBC news On-line is nothing more than news management.Who said the BBC were fair and impartial.
It is hard to trust these people at all.In fact who are the people at the BBC who decide what is an important headline and what is not.We have a right to know.
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 12:03am Sun 2 Dec 07
Would Miss Wark be one of them?
Would Miss Wark be one of them?
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:15am Sun 2 Dec 07
"two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown? Hhahhahhahhahhahahha
hhahhahahahahhahahah
hahahahhahahahhahahh
ahhahhahahhahhahahah
ah
Oh dear me - Wot a larf
Ian: what a wag!a career in stand-up commedy awaits you sir!
"two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown? Hhahhahhahhahhahahha
hhahhahahahahhahahah
hahahahhahahahhahahh
ahhahhahahhahhahahah
ah
Oh dear me - Wot a larf
Ian: what a wag!a career in stand-up commedy awaits you sir!
Posted by: Dougthedug on 12:24am Sun 2 Dec 07
I don't know what Mr. MacWhirter was drinking on his holidays but I think the locals were sticking more than alchohol into his cocktails.
If anyone thought six weeks ago that Ms. Alexander and Mr. Brown were the saviours of the Union in Scotland then their desperation for unionist good news was overriding their political brain. Six weeks ago Brown had just bottled holding an election and Alexander had lost Brian Lironi the previous month after failing to stand up to Foulkes when he described Lironi as an "idiot".
Mr. MacWhirter then gets a good dig in at the SNP. "Smirk", is always the mark of the unionist journalist who can't find anything else to pin on Mr. Salmond. "Budgetary murder and scrapping pledges", is a little strong for the SNP's efforts to try and divide up a block grant which has been squeezed by Westminster. and a useless tram scheme. The money's simply not there but if Mr. MacWhirter can suggest a way to make a block grant go further his career is made in Local Government.
I've read Ms. Alexander's, "fightback", speech which has been submerged in the furore about the dodgy donations. All I can say is that it was probably better for her to have it submerged. I posted a comment on it on http://www.tomgriffi
n.org/the_green_ribb
on/2007/11/donations
-row-o.html earlier this evening. The link to the original speech is in there too. I'll just say that he first line of my comment is, "I've just read Ms. Alexander's speech on the Labour site and it's mince."
"Nobody is saying that there is anything corrupt in these dealings." Well in the case of Abrahams they are. All of a sudden a planning application by Abrahams for a 540-acre business park south of Durham City, near junction 61 of the A1 was approved and now they're having another look at the decision. There's a timeline here.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/main.jht
ml?xml=/news/2007/11
/29/nbrown529.xml
The secrecy about the donations is probably just habit with the Labour Party. It wasn't them losing the plot, it was just standard practice.
art1000:
Iain doesn't have a split personality, he's a unionist through and through. It's just that he takes on Labour sometimes and as the terms Labour and Unionist are pretty much interchangeable in Scotland it gets a bit confusing at times. All you've got to do is listen to him warble on about federalism to understand he's a Lib-Dem.
I don't know what Mr. MacWhirter was drinking on his holidays but I think the locals were sticking more than alchohol into his cocktails.
If anyone thought six weeks ago that Ms. Alexander and Mr. Brown were the saviours of the Union in Scotland then their desperation for unionist good news was overriding their political brain. Six weeks ago Brown had just bottled holding an election and Alexander had lost Brian Lironi the previous month after failing to stand up to Foulkes when he described Lironi as an "idiot".
Mr. MacWhirter then gets a good dig in at the SNP. "Smirk", is always the mark of the unionist journalist who can't find anything else to pin on Mr. Salmond. "Budgetary murder and scrapping pledges", is a little strong for the SNP's efforts to try and divide up a block grant which has been squeezed by Westminster. and a useless tram scheme. The money's simply not there but if Mr. MacWhirter can suggest a way to make a block grant go further his career is made in Local Government.
I've read Ms. Alexander's, "fightback", speech which has been submerged in the furore about the dodgy donations. All I can say is that it was probably better for her to have it submerged. I posted a comment on it on http://www.tomgriffi
n.org/the_green_ribb
on/2007/11/donations
-row-o.html earlier this evening. The link to the original speech is in there too. I'll just say that he first line of my comment is, "I've just read Ms. Alexander's speech on the Labour site and it's mince."
"Nobody is saying that there is anything corrupt in these dealings." Well in the case of Abrahams they are. All of a sudden a planning application by Abrahams for a 540-acre business park south of Durham City, near junction 61 of the A1 was approved and now they're having another look at the decision. There's a timeline here.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/main.jht
ml?xml=/news/2007/11
/29/nbrown529.xml
The secrecy about the donations is probably just habit with the Labour Party. It wasn't them losing the plot, it was just standard practice.
art1000:
Iain doesn't have a split personality, he's a unionist through and through. It's just that he takes on Labour sometimes and as the terms Labour and Unionist are pretty much interchangeable in Scotland it gets a bit confusing at times. All you've got to do is listen to him warble on about federalism to understand he's a Lib-Dem.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 12:24am Sun 2 Dec 07
Aye theres definately no doubt that there will be quite a few changes to come to the new Scottish Broadcasting Corporation when Independance comes. Here we have a bunch of liars and law breakers running a once proud Scottish Labour Party into oblivion. Wendy and quite a few others have to go then perhaps the Real Scottish Labour Party will throw out its sevitude to the London Controlled Liars who have stuffed it up. Its definately time for the grass root Scottish Labour Party officials and voters to come over to the Scots Way by demanding Independance for our country.Lets face it the majority of them support the idea but are afraid to be thrown out of the party by their English Masters. It is time for you lot to play your cards for the sake of Scotland. You know the place that you used to be passionate about when Maggie and her ratbags dismantled our society into the unemployed with no hope for the future and those that had so much. Not that I disagree with the Soutars,Hunters and the rest of them that done well. We need lots more of these entrapaneurs to turn things around together with a more caring society that is commited to the people of their own country.
Resign this week Wendy you and your kind are killing our country for a few bits of silver.
Aye theres definately no doubt that there will be quite a few changes to come to the new Scottish Broadcasting Corporation when Independance comes. Here we have a bunch of liars and law breakers running a once proud Scottish Labour Party into oblivion. Wendy and quite a few others have to go then perhaps the Real Scottish Labour Party will throw out its sevitude to the London Controlled Liars who have stuffed it up. Its definately time for the grass root Scottish Labour Party officials and voters to come over to the Scots Way by demanding Independance for our country.Lets face it the majority of them support the idea but are afraid to be thrown out of the party by their English Masters. It is time for you lot to play your cards for the sake of Scotland. You know the place that you used to be passionate about when Maggie and her ratbags dismantled our society into the unemployed with no hope for the future and those that had so much. Not that I disagree with the Soutars,Hunters and the rest of them that done well. We need lots more of these entrapaneurs to turn things around together with a more caring society that is commited to the people of their own country.
Resign this week Wendy you and your kind are killing our country for a few bits of silver.
Posted by: Maria Regina on 12:41am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Glen (with one 'n') Campbell[/bold] wrote:
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament: 950/1 - Jackie Baillie 200/1 - George Foulkes 15/1 - Iain Gray 4/1 - Andy Kerr Evens - Nicol Stephen[/quote] Please let it be Jackie Baillie or George Foulkes - oh please, they'd be out of power for decades!
Glen (with one 'n') Campbell wrote:
Next Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament: 950/1 - Jackie Baillie 200/1 - George Foulkes 15/1 - Iain Gray 4/1 - Andy Kerr Evens - Nicol Stephen
Please let it be Jackie Baillie or George Foulkes - oh please, they'd be out of power for decades!
Posted by: LEGION, ALBA on 12:50am Sun 2 Dec 07
Iain - The last few weeks you have been a Crusader of the Truth.
The real-poltik suggests you have a problem with integrity and your pay-packet.
The Scottish Branch of London Labour suggest they pay your wages.
[bold]Have a look at yourself[/bold] .
Iain - The last few weeks you have been a Crusader of the Truth.
The real-poltik suggests you have a problem with integrity and your pay-packet.
The Scottish Branch of London Labour suggest they pay your wages.
Have a look at yourself .
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:03am Sun 2 Dec 07
ART1000 Points Out A McWhirter Stinger[quote]"The SNP are getting away with budgetary murder and scrapping pledges across the board."[/quote]Pity he should resort to short-hand on such a serious issue, knowing as he must that his statement is massively misleading. A momentary lapse.
But then, he has declared himself not an SNP supporter or for independence; so, it's not surprising the accuracy of his prose should slip now and then.
He ought to add the advent of SNP power has contributed to Labour's panic resulting in slip-shod ethics and cooking the books - a wee bit of creative accountancy, you might say, indicative of the party's acceptanc of crackpot Thatcher's laissez-faire economics.
ART1000 Points Out A McWhirter Stinger
"The SNP are getting away with budgetary murder and scrapping pledges across the board."
Pity he should resort to short-hand on such a serious issue, knowing as he must that his statement is massively misleading. A momentary lapse.
But then, he has declared himself not an SNP supporter or for independence; so, it's not surprising the accuracy of his prose should slip now and then.
He ought to add the advent of SNP power has contributed to Labour's panic resulting in slip-shod ethics and cooking the books - a wee bit of creative accountancy, you might say, indicative of the party's acceptanc of crackpot Thatcher's laissez-faire economics.
Posted by: Who gives a..., Glasgow on 1:06am Sun 2 Dec 07
Dressing Mutton as Lamb is one thing!!
Economical with the truth is another!!
Both equally dubious, well used and accepted political ploys, but all of this saga goes way beyond these. There is no amount of weasel-words that can get Scottish Labour and the Holyrood Leadership clique out from under this one.
Dressing Mutton as Lamb is one thing!!
Economical with the truth is another!!
Both equally dubious, well used and accepted political ploys, but all of this saga goes way beyond these. There is no amount of weasel-words that can get Scottish Labour and the Holyrood Leadership clique out from under this one.
Posted by: John S, Edinburgh on 1:25am Sun 2 Dec 07
Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives.
Please tell me which part of a supply side, low tax, business oriented agenda variously known as Reaganomics and/or Thatcherism Jim Mather, Sir George Matthewson, Sir Tom Farmer, Brian Souter and/or Crawford Beveridge dislike?
Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives.
Please tell me which part of a supply side, low tax, business oriented agenda variously known as Reaganomics and/or Thatcherism Jim Mather, Sir George Matthewson, Sir Tom Farmer, Brian Souter and/or Crawford Beveridge dislike?
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 1:36am Sun 2 Dec 07
Indeed we are watching "Scottish" Labour totally self- destruct, I can't believe it's happening quite so soon!
It's nearing the end game?
Indeed we are watching "Scottish" Labour totally self- destruct, I can't believe it's happening quite so soon!
It's nearing the end game?
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 1:38am Sun 2 Dec 07
Indeed we are watching "Scottish" Labour totally self- destruct, I can't believe it's happening quite so soon!
It's nearing the end game?
Indeed we are watching "Scottish" Labour totally self- destruct, I can't believe it's happening quite so soon!
It's nearing the end game?
Posted by: Jaggy on 1:47am Sun 2 Dec 07
Three leaders in a row .... McLeish (officegate), McConnell (Red Rose and others) and now Alexander.
Scottish Labour are institutionally corrupt.
Three leaders in a row .... McLeish (officegate), McConnell (Red Rose and others) and now Alexander.
Scottish Labour are institutionally corrupt.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:01am Sun 2 Dec 07
John S Asks Slyly[quote]Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives.[/quote]Oh, I've made comment on the possible co-operation on various threads at what I thought were key moments.
We are where we are in Scottish politics exactly because Thatcher kissed the ring of the Chicago School of Shock Economics I would not like to see the SNP assume the doctrine of that bunch of crooks. They are a long way off it but need stay on their guard when supping with Thatcher's children.
A mixed economy with some regulation is an absolute necessity for any democracy to function properly.
John S Asks Slyly
Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives.
Oh, I've made comment on the possible co-operation on various threads at what I thought were key moments.
We are where we are in Scottish politics exactly because Thatcher kissed the ring of the Chicago School of Shock Economics I would not like to see the SNP assume the doctrine of that bunch of crooks. They are a long way off it but need stay on their guard when supping with Thatcher's children.
A mixed economy with some regulation is an absolute necessity for any democracy to function properly.
Posted by: mary bremnar, Glasgow on 2:13am Sun 2 Dec 07
The 'Blair Years' without Tony, for a brief time only his stand-in, Gordon, will amuse and delight you to the same high standards set by our dear leader. The cast has a few new faces but don't let that spoil your enjoyment, our script has not altered. We guarentee the same levels of mendacity and hubris that you so quickly became accustomed to during the last ten years. The cry will soon echo throughout this Great Britain... Bring Back Blair... Bring Back (Loud Elgar here Nimrod anyone)
Blair.. Ah, a grateful nation slumbers
The End
The 'Blair Years' without Tony, for a brief time only his stand-in, Gordon, will amuse and delight you to the same high standards set by our dear leader. The cast has a few new faces but don't let that spoil your enjoyment, our script has not altered. We guarentee the same levels of mendacity and hubris that you so quickly became accustomed to during the last ten years. The cry will soon echo throughout this Great Britain... Bring Back Blair... Bring Back (Loud Elgar here Nimrod anyone)
Blair.. Ah, a grateful nation slumbers
The End
Posted by: lang spin, Carluke on 4:43am Sun 2 Dec 07
My My. There is nothing more sinister in the length and breadth of Scotland than the sneer on the face of the zealous unco guid. Wee Wendy is hung out to dry for £900. Meanwhile AShcroft with his Belize billions and Osbourne and Cameron with loads o daddy's auld money smile the hypocrits-grin of the sinfilled righteous.
Tackety bits are not worn only by the unwashed.
Lay on MacDuff, wee Wendy will heng, no burn, she is a wummin, by the unco guid for the sake o £900. Ashcroft's pocket-change on a Sunday. And you will all laugh on the other side o your faces when he and his ilk become rulers again and spit in the faces of we jocks who dared be great wi wee hand oots o £900. **** the unco guid who cannie see themselves.
lang spin.
My My. There is nothing more sinister in the length and breadth of Scotland than the sneer on the face of the zealous unco guid. Wee Wendy is hung out to dry for £900. Meanwhile AShcroft with his Belize billions and Osbourne and Cameron with loads o daddy's auld money smile the hypocrits-grin of the sinfilled righteous.
Tackety bits are not worn only by the unwashed.
Lay on MacDuff, wee Wendy will heng, no burn, she is a wummin, by the unco guid for the sake o £900. Ashcroft's pocket-change on a Sunday. And you will all laugh on the other side o your faces when he and his ilk become rulers again and spit in the faces of we jocks who dared be great wi wee hand oots o £900. **** the unco guid who cannie see themselves.
lang spin.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 4:48am Sun 2 Dec 07
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in
Posted by: lang spin, carluke on 4:52am Sun 2 Dec 07
In the post above I used the d..n word in D..n the unco guid but the zealous unco guid computer gave me **** instead.
Lang spin
In the post above I used the d..n word in D..n the unco guid but the zealous unco guid computer gave me **** instead.
Lang spin
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 5:08am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in[/quote] Colin B .Well said sir, very very wise words.
Intelligent and civilised Glaswegians who know how to use a knife and fork, ( not for stabbing people in the throat ) all live in Bearsden and Milngavie just outside the gates of hell , the city of Glasgow.
Colin B wrote:
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in
Colin B .Well said sir, very very wise words.
Intelligent and civilised Glaswegians who know how to use a knife and fork, ( not for stabbing people in the throat ) all live in Bearsden and Milngavie just outside the gates of hell , the city of Glasgow.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, The fly on bendy Wendy's wall on 7:19am Sun 2 Dec 07
It gets worse. It appears that Gordon (and others on Glasgow Council) had nominated Green for an honour in the New Year List.
Cash for honours any one?
I proposed yesterday, and I continue to propose today, that the best way to handle this is to write or E-mail the Presiding Officer and Parliamentary Standards Officer requesting the suspension of McCabe, Alexander, Gordon and Whitton from the parliament building at Holyrood until such time as the police have completed their investigations (which shouldn't be hard as all of them have admitted in public they broke the law).
It sends the best message from the people of Scotland that no matter what party, we have had enough of not holding our politicians accountable.
By doing so we start playing a new game which is called "The people of Scotland hold their sovereignty dear". The main rule of the game is: "We do not let any political party away with acts that damage the integrity or probity of Parliament at Holyrood."
So we stop muttering into our porridge on this or the Herald blog and E-mail the Presiding Officer and Parliamentary Standards Officer making our views known (politely, please Flab skin et al.).
You want to create a different parliament or Scotland then take action. Real influence is only an E-mail away!
It gets worse. It appears that Gordon (and others on Glasgow Council) had nominated Green for an honour in the New Year List.
Cash for honours any one?
I proposed yesterday, and I continue to propose today, that the best way to handle this is to write or E-mail the Presiding Officer and Parliamentary Standards Officer requesting the suspension of McCabe, Alexander, Gordon and Whitton from the parliament building at Holyrood until such time as the police have completed their investigations (which shouldn't be hard as all of them have admitted in public they broke the law).
It sends the best message from the people of Scotland that no matter what party, we have had enough of not holding our politicians accountable.
By doing so we start playing a new game which is called "The people of Scotland hold their sovereignty dear". The main rule of the game is: "We do not let any political party away with acts that damage the integrity or probity of Parliament at Holyrood."
So we stop muttering into our porridge on this or the Herald blog and E-mail the Presiding Officer and Parliamentary Standards Officer making our views known (politely, please Flab skin et al.).
You want to create a different parliament or Scotland then take action. Real influence is only an E-mail away!
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 7:40am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders[/quote]
What do the mean "could"? Who trusts them anyway?
Donor scandal could kill all trust in Labour’s leaders
What do the mean "could"? Who trusts them anyway?
Posted by: SEUMAS, TAIN on 9:16am Sun 2 Dec 07
i USED TO THINK IAN WAS A FAIR AND OBJECTIVE JOURNALIST, NOW HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS
i USED TO THINK IAN WAS A FAIR AND OBJECTIVE JOURNALIST, NOW HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 9:39am Sun 2 Dec 07
re: "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown"
There you have it in a nutshell. The self-delusion practised by the Scottish media in their dealings with Labour. Imagine this had been the Tories, the LibDems or the SNP. The very same journalists would be calling for the return of capital punishment.
Scottish political journalists are as every bit to blame for the way that Labour conducts it's business in Scotland as labour politicians are themselves. The Scottish media campaigned for Brown and Alexander, while in the process vilified the SNP in print and in broadcasts. They turned a blind eye for years at the corruption in Labour circles, but have scrutinised and sensationalised in detail every move the SNP make or word said.
The Labour party is hopelessly corrupt but so too is Scottish journalism.
re: "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown"
There you have it in a nutshell. The self-delusion practised by the Scottish media in their dealings with Labour. Imagine this had been the Tories, the LibDems or the SNP. The very same journalists would be calling for the return of capital punishment.
Scottish political journalists are as every bit to blame for the way that Labour conducts it's business in Scotland as labour politicians are themselves. The Scottish media campaigned for Brown and Alexander, while in the process vilified the SNP in print and in broadcasts. They turned a blind eye for years at the corruption in Labour circles, but have scrutinised and sensationalised in detail every move the SNP make or word said.
The Labour party is hopelessly corrupt but so too is Scottish journalism.
Posted by: Paul, Paisley on 10:02am Sun 2 Dec 07
[italic]'The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end.'[/italic]
Iain! Integrity is not a label that is self-generated and repeated until it becomes part of the media's sub-conscious state, it has to be earned and proved day after day. I'm afraid integrity is individual and organisational and on both counts Labour has failed.
'The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end.'
Iain! Integrity is not a label that is self-generated and repeated until it becomes part of the media's sub-conscious state, it has to be earned and proved day after day. I'm afraid integrity is individual and organisational and on both counts Labour has failed.
Posted by: seonaidh eibhinn on 10:16am Sun 2 Dec 07
A wee wander thro Campbells diaries (even after vetting pre publication)gives enough clues as to how Blair et al conducted their business -the current explicit erosion of trust and integrity is simply an inevitable outcome.
A wee wander thro Campbells diaries (even after vetting pre publication)gives enough clues as to how Blair et al conducted their business -the current explicit erosion of trust and integrity is simply an inevitable outcome.
Posted by: Naes Lease on 10:24am Sun 2 Dec 07
This "article" by Mcwhirter confirms that he is still-and always will be anti SNP and pro-labour!
Further, the same applies to BBC "Scotland."
Dont be fooled folks-leopards will not change their spots!
This "article" by Mcwhirter confirms that he is still-and always will be anti SNP and pro-labour!
Further, the same applies to BBC "Scotland."
Dont be fooled folks-leopards will not change their spots!
Posted by: Maria Regina on 10:28am Sun 2 Dec 07
The awful Scotland on Sunday is reporting that Charlie Gordon, man of the people, friend of the downtrodden, lobbied for the millionaire tax-exile Green to be given a Westminster honour (OBE or something). I wonde rif Wenday was also involved or was she too busy lying to the press?
The awful Scotland on Sunday is reporting that Charlie Gordon, man of the people, friend of the downtrodden, lobbied for the millionaire tax-exile Green to be given a Westminster honour (OBE or something). I wonde rif Wenday was also involved or was she too busy lying to the press?
Posted by: Maria Regina on 10:33am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Jaggy[/bold] wrote:
Three leaders in a row .... McLeish (officegate), McConnell (Red Rose and others) and now Alexander. Scottish Labour are institutionally corrupt.[/quote] You seem to be forgetting the foul Donald Dewar - who tried everythign in his power to stitch up the Scottish Parliament for NuLabor including costing taxpayers hunders of millions of pounds. He too was a millionaire who didn't do anything daft like give his millions to the poor but, as a believer in inherited wealth, left it all to his middle-aged children. 'Course he was entitled to do this but it does make him a hypocrit. (How did he make his money, you ask? All his friends say he was very frugal and banked his salary - yes, because he ate, travels and entertained at the tax-payers expense).
Jaggy wrote:
Three leaders in a row .... McLeish (officegate), McConnell (Red Rose and others) and now Alexander. Scottish Labour are institutionally corrupt.
You seem to be forgetting the foul Donald Dewar - who tried everythign in his power to stitch up the Scottish Parliament for NuLabor including costing taxpayers hunders of millions of pounds. He too was a millionaire who didn't do anything daft like give his millions to the poor but, as a believer in inherited wealth, left it all to his middle-aged children. 'Course he was entitled to do this but it does make him a hypocrit. (How did he make his money, you ask? All his friends say he was very frugal and banked his salary - yes, because he ate, travels and entertained at the tax-payers expense).
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 10:38am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Jimmie[/bold] wrote:
Macwhirter writes "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end." This impeccable integrity is in doubt surely? Alexander has been briefing through her team about she had only just found out about the donation and then had to backtrack after her benefactor allowed the publication of her months old letter expressing gratitude for his donation. Brown tests belief in his integrity by claiming, as a micro-manager, that he knew nothing of the proxy practice until last Satutrday night when the General Secretary of his party was engaged systematically in the practice and his fund raiser (who is described everywhere as "very close" to Brown) confessed that he had also known of the practice for months but had not told his boss. [/quote] JIMMIE
Nice one Sir........100% correct !!!
Jimmie wrote:
Macwhirter writes "The tragedy is that two politicians of impeccable integrity - Alexander and Brown - may have had their careers destroyed by the very practices they promised to end." This impeccable integrity is in doubt surely? Alexander has been briefing through her team about she had only just found out about the donation and then had to backtrack after her benefactor allowed the publication of her months old letter expressing gratitude for his donation. Brown tests belief in his integrity by claiming, as a micro-manager, that he knew nothing of the proxy practice until last Satutrday night when the General Secretary of his party was engaged systematically in the practice and his fund raiser (who is described everywhere as "very close" to Brown) confessed that he had also known of the practice for months but had not told his boss.
JIMMIE
Nice one Sir........100% correct !!!
Posted by: Richard Quinn, Glasgow on 10:42am Sun 2 Dec 07
All this mess because the Labour Party was worried about the SNP getting money from Sean Connery who lived abroad.
So they thought that they would change the rules, which they did.
Now it turns out that they cannot abide by their own rules, and in opposition they have deprived themselves of more money, and Wendy is complaining that she doesn't have enough money to run her department.
What kind of association has Charlie Gordon had with Paul Green in Glasgow City Council for a profiteer to feel obliged to give two donations to the Labour Party which were just under the limit needed to be declared.
Brown envelopes comes to mind.
You just couldn't make it up.
Such sheer incompetence.
And they want to run the Country.
What's the betting that the Labour Party will get off with it again ?.
When the people in charge of justice are selected by them, rather than elected, then we will always have this kind of problem with accountability.
Ron Gould’s Report wasn't good enough for them, so they should be sent to jail if found guilty, as it's the only way that they will learn a lesson.
Either because they are so thick that they can't understand their own rules, or they are so arrogant that they know that they will get away with it again.
This is Mis-Representation of the People Act, as Gordon Brown has all but admitted that their behaviour was illegal.
Their incompetence is breathtaking.
Their General Secretary's resignation is such a small and unusual step these days.
We look forward to further developments, especially inside and outside both Parliaments.
The pantomimes continue.
Let Democracy Rule.
All this mess because the Labour Party was worried about the SNP getting money from Sean Connery who lived abroad.
So they thought that they would change the rules, which they did.
Now it turns out that they cannot abide by their own rules, and in opposition they have deprived themselves of more money, and Wendy is complaining that she doesn't have enough money to run her department.
What kind of association has Charlie Gordon had with Paul Green in Glasgow City Council for a profiteer to feel obliged to give two donations to the Labour Party which were just under the limit needed to be declared.
Brown envelopes comes to mind.
You just couldn't make it up.
Such sheer incompetence.
And they want to run the Country.
What's the betting that the Labour Party will get off with it again ?.
When the people in charge of justice are selected by them, rather than elected, then we will always have this kind of problem with accountability.
Ron Gould’s Report wasn't good enough for them, so they should be sent to jail if found guilty, as it's the only way that they will learn a lesson.
Either because they are so thick that they can't understand their own rules, or they are so arrogant that they know that they will get away with it again.
This is Mis-Representation of the People Act, as Gordon Brown has all but admitted that their behaviour was illegal.
Their incompetence is breathtaking.
Their General Secretary's resignation is such a small and unusual step these days.
We look forward to further developments, especially inside and outside both Parliaments.
The pantomimes continue.
Let Democracy Rule.
Posted by: seonaidh eibhinn, EDINBURGHTOON on 11:01am Sun 2 Dec 07
Why does Iain diminish his analysis by slipping in anti SNP comments in the context of an article which is examining the amateurish attempts at deception within the Labour party- the Labour leader and the Professor crouched round the computer .... ...
EDitorial freedom ,I dinnae finksae -i bet the phones have been hot between the spin doctors and editors ...back off
Why does Iain diminish his analysis by slipping in anti SNP comments in the context of an article which is examining the amateurish attempts at deception within the Labour party- the Labour leader and the Professor crouched round the computer .... ...
EDitorial freedom ,I dinnae finksae -i bet the phones have been hot between the spin doctors and editors ...back off
Posted by: Tartan Tory, Bishopbriggs on 11:21am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in[/quote] How classy are these Nat followers with language that must make poor Rabbie turn in his grave !
As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile(allegedly a UK voter, of course !) or indeed from someone who is a supplicant for lucrative franchises handed out by wee Eck and his cronies ?
Colin B wrote:
Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in
How classy are these Nat followers with language that must make poor Rabbie turn in his grave !
As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile(allegedly a UK voter, of course !) or indeed from someone who is a supplicant for lucrative franchises handed out by wee Eck and his cronies ?
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 11:28am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]John S[/bold] wrote:
Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives. Please tell me which part of a supply side, low tax, business oriented agenda variously known as Reaganomics and/or Thatcherism Jim Mather, Sir George Matthewson, Sir Tom Farmer, Brian Souter and/or Crawford Beveridge dislike? [/quote] Interesting comment, John. Pray tell me who invited Thatcher to No. 10? Pray tell me who invited Thatcher to Bute House? Pray tell me who heaped praise upon her 'economic miracle?'
I'll give you a hint. It was someone born in Scotland but not a Scot!
John S wrote:
Los Angeles, Seems a bit odd to make adverse comment on Mrs. T. just as as SNP agree to work with the Conservatives. Please tell me which part of a supply side, low tax, business oriented agenda variously known as Reaganomics and/or Thatcherism Jim Mather, Sir George Matthewson, Sir Tom Farmer, Brian Souter and/or Crawford Beveridge dislike?
Interesting comment, John. Pray tell me who invited Thatcher to No. 10? Pray tell me who invited Thatcher to Bute House? Pray tell me who heaped praise upon her 'economic miracle?'
I'll give you a hint. It was someone born in Scotland but not a Scot!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:58am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile([/quote]you mean Connery - why not say his name.
[bold]First:[/bold] Connery is NOT a tax exile. Anything earned here gets taxed here.
[bold]Second:[/bold] He donated money to pay for PPB's not for personal favours. You will recall he and Murray were refused a chunk of Edinburgh's greenbelt for a so called film studio complete with hotel and houses. (Sound familiar - eh?)
[bold]Three:[/bold] The rules for donations were altered by the Labour party long after Connery's donations, yet they immediately set about subverting them.
It's the inherent dishonesty of the system that needs overthrown because we cannot trust our elected leaders to stay clean and not sell themselves to the highest bidder.
As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile(
you mean Connery - why not say his name.
First: Connery is NOT a tax exile. Anything earned here gets taxed here.
Second: He donated money to pay for PPB's not for personal favours. You will recall he and Murray were refused a chunk of Edinburgh's greenbelt for a so called film studio complete with hotel and houses. (Sound familiar - eh?)
Three: The rules for donations were altered by the Labour party long after Connery's donations, yet they immediately set about subverting them.
It's the inherent dishonesty of the system that needs overthrown because we cannot trust our elected leaders to stay clean and not sell themselves to the highest bidder.
Posted by: John J. Sheridan, Z'ha'dum on 12:56pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Iain, I read in the SH hard copy that you have " some sympathy" with the notion that these are trivial amounts of money and probably not in themselves reasons for the " ultimate penalty of resignation", I strongly beg to differ Iain.
Not only should they be reasons for resignation they are reasons for possible jail time.
This attitude which seems to prevail amongst the political set (including journalist such as you) that it's only a 'little bit of law' that's been broken is a corrosive thing.
There is no such thing as breaking a law a little bit you either break it or you don't.
Should I break the law in a matter as serious as this is then I would expect the full penalty of the law to apply and my employer would summarily dismiss me upon prosecution, I would have no opportunity to resign, then creep back later when the dust settles.
This belief that resignation is some great sacrifice for politicians is bunkum, how many times has Mandy fallen on his sword?
They wait a few months and start defrauding the country all over again.
It is high time that our political masters ( for be in no doubt that is how they see themselves) were made aware that although they may make the laws which govern us, they govern them too.
They have no special set of rules to circumvent the transgression of the law and must face the full penalty of doing so.
Iain, I read in the SH hard copy that you have " some sympathy" with the notion that these are trivial amounts of money and probably not in themselves reasons for the " ultimate penalty of resignation", I strongly beg to differ Iain.
Not only should they be reasons for resignation they are reasons for possible jail time.
This attitude which seems to prevail amongst the political set (including journalist such as you) that it's only a 'little bit of law' that's been broken is a corrosive thing.
There is no such thing as breaking a law a little bit you either break it or you don't.
Should I break the law in a matter as serious as this is then I would expect the full penalty of the law to apply and my employer would summarily dismiss me upon prosecution, I would have no opportunity to resign, then creep back later when the dust settles.
This belief that resignation is some great sacrifice for politicians is bunkum, how many times has Mandy fallen on his sword?
They wait a few months and start defrauding the country all over again.
It is high time that our political masters ( for be in no doubt that is how they see themselves) were made aware that although they may make the laws which govern us, they govern them too.
They have no special set of rules to circumvent the transgression of the law and must face the full penalty of doing so.
Posted by: babybear on 2:21pm Sun 2 Dec 07
I'm not defending Labour or Alexander, but with all the hijacking of the British government by lobbyists over decades-eg. oil lobby stifling public transport-I'm not impressed by todays's Herald's nine pages on party donations. S. Africa's disintigration gets one, the 'teddy bear' a half. Maybe, like Sudan, examining our priorities would be [bold]bold[/bold] urgent.
I'm not defending Labour or Alexander, but with all the hijacking of the British government by lobbyists over decades-eg. oil lobby stifling public transport-I'm not impressed by todays's Herald's nine pages on party donations. S. Africa's disintigration gets one, the 'teddy bear' a half. Maybe, like Sudan, examining our priorities would be urgent.
Posted by: paul h, fife on 2:22pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Art 1000, well said!
Even when faced with obvious wrong doing or ineptitude, our 'independent and free' press suffer great agonies in criticizing the labour party. [bold]They are so out of touch with the country and we are so badly served[/bold] . Of course, this is not aimed at the herald or this piece but at all the titles in general. And then there is tv....
Art 1000, well said!
Even when faced with obvious wrong doing or ineptitude, our 'independent and free' press suffer great agonies in criticizing the labour party.
They are so out of touch with the country and we are so badly served . Of course, this is not aimed at the herald or this piece but at all the titles in general. And then there is tv....
Posted by: Joe McT, BlairsFantasyIsland on 2:22pm Sun 2 Dec 07
"Iain, I read in the SH hard copy that you have " some sympathy" with the notion that these are trivial amounts of money and probably not in themselves reasons for the " ultimate penalty of resignation", I strongly beg to differ Iain."
In the scheme of things, this is small beer compared with the disasters New Labour has inflicted on Britain, and the absolute nightmare Blair helped create in Iraq.
Seems that if you get to close to the seriously rich you get investigated by the Police, but if you deliberately lie to Parliament and the country, and get over 100,000 Iraqis killed then you get off Scot-free.
Oh, and if we don't care about Iraq, what about the 100 plus British troops who have died there as a direct result of Blair's criminal insanity?
I look forward to the Police investigating that.......
"Iain, I read in the SH hard copy that you have " some sympathy" with the notion that these are trivial amounts of money and probably not in themselves reasons for the " ultimate penalty of resignation", I strongly beg to differ Iain."
In the scheme of things, this is small beer compared with the disasters New Labour has inflicted on Britain, and the absolute nightmare Blair helped create in Iraq.
Seems that if you get to close to the seriously rich you get investigated by the Police, but if you deliberately lie to Parliament and the country, and get over 100,000 Iraqis killed then you get off Scot-free.
Oh, and if we don't care about Iraq, what about the 100 plus British troops who have died there as a direct result of Blair's criminal insanity?
I look forward to the Police investigating that.......
Posted by: EuroMac, Isolated in Europe on 2:29pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Lest we forget, Wendy was hand picked by Broon as 'best of breed'.
Speaks volumes...
Lest we forget, Wendy was hand picked by Broon as 'best of breed'.
Speaks volumes...
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 3:01pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Tartan Tory[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote: Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in[/quote] How classy are these Nat followers with language that must make poor Rabbie turn in his grave ! As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile(allegedly a UK voter, of course !) or indeed from someone who is a supplicant for lucrative franchises handed out by wee Eck and his cronies ?[/quote] Are you talking about Labour's pal, Moir Lockhead of First Group by any chance?
Tartan Tory wrote:
Colin B wrote: Lose trust in Labour? - naah the Neds East of the High Street in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Criminals and Public sector employees ( bribed with unaccountability ) and the working class unwashed, uneducated herd will vote the Labour crokks back in
How classy are these Nat followers with language that must make poor Rabbie turn in his grave ! As for the donor issue, whats so different (other than size!)about accepting a donation of £950 from a known Party supporter and one for tens of thousands from a tax-exile(allegedly a UK voter, of course !) or indeed from someone who is a supplicant for lucrative franchises handed out by wee Eck and his cronies ?
Are you talking about Labour's pal, Moir Lockhead of First Group by any chance?
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., ETH EN.... PEE...oops i've made a puddle........ on 3:05pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]paul h[/bold] wrote:
Art 1000, well said! Even when faced with obvious wrong doing or ineptitude, our 'independent and free' press suffer great agonies in criticizing the labour party. [bold]They are so out of touch with the country and we are so badly served[/bold] . Of course, this is not aimed at the herald or this piece but at all the titles in general. And then there is tv....[/quote] The Hootsmon is in denial about the whole affair.
It is time also we had a free from london control media and news on tv. We are being spoon fed by placemen.
paul h wrote:
Art 1000, well said! Even when faced with obvious wrong doing or ineptitude, our 'independent and free' press suffer great agonies in criticizing the labour party. They are so out of touch with the country and we are so badly served . Of course, this is not aimed at the herald or this piece but at all the titles in general. And then there is tv....
The Hootsmon is in denial about the whole affair.
It is time also we had a free from london control media and news on tv. We are being spoon fed by placemen.
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., ETHENPPEE! AND FWEEDOM on 3:26pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[bold]It could be plaicemen......But then it is bound too flounder............
..[/bold]
It could be plaicemen......But then it is bound too flounder............
.. Posted by: pencildick on 3:52pm Sun 2 Dec 07
The police should investigate and while they are at it they should investigate the bbc anchor woman Kirsty wark. What did she and her company have to do with the over budgeted Scottish parliament building,and WHY did she refuse to hand over tapes to the enquiry.
The police should investigate and while they are at it they should investigate the bbc anchor woman Kirsty wark. What did she and her company have to do with the over budgeted Scottish parliament building,and WHY did she refuse to hand over tapes to the enquiry.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 4:38pm Sun 2 Dec 07
It is truely a dreadfull irony that it is greed and fraud that will do it for NEW LABOUR.
The Mass-Murder of 677,000 Iraq women ,men, and kiddies and the perpetrators get off scot-free. Shamefull.
The NEW LABOUR warmongering pigs like BLAIR, BROWN, STRAW, and their criminal Party shold
be incarcerated immmediatly.
It is truely a dreadfull irony that it is greed and fraud that will do it for NEW LABOUR.
The Mass-Murder of 677,000 Iraq women ,men, and kiddies and the perpetrators get off scot-free. Shamefull.
The NEW LABOUR warmongering pigs like BLAIR, BROWN, STRAW, and their criminal Party shold
be incarcerated immmediatly.
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 5:29pm Sun 2 Dec 07
"nobody suggested Henry was corrupt or had acted illegally."
"Nobody is saying that there is anything corrupt in these dealings."
Uh - Iain - actually lots and lots of people suggested then and are suggesting now that there was plenty of corruption and illegality in these escapades. I think you mean 'nobody in the Unionist press corps'. That would be about right. You should go to jail with them as accessories.
@Ronald at 4:38
Know what you mean. It's like Capone going down for tax avoidance.
"nobody suggested Henry was corrupt or had acted illegally."
"Nobody is saying that there is anything corrupt in these dealings."
Uh - Iain - actually lots and lots of people suggested then and are suggesting now that there was plenty of corruption and illegality in these escapades. I think you mean 'nobody in the Unionist press corps'. That would be about right. You should go to jail with them as accessories.
@Ronald at 4:38
Know what you mean. It's like Capone going down for tax avoidance.
Posted by: dws on 5:33pm Sun 2 Dec 07
As reported on another thread, Lothian and Borders Police are now involved.
As reported on another thread, Lothian and Borders Police are now involved.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 5:46pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Let's not lose sight of the fact that when Gazza Broon talked of "government of all the talents", he was speaking as a son of the manse. He was thinking of the parable of the talents. Money, cash, dosh, spondulics, shekels, greenbacks (P.Green backs Nu Labour), bread, mazuma, in other words.
Let's not lose sight of the fact that when Gazza Broon talked of "government of all the talents", he was speaking as a son of the manse. He was thinking of the parable of the talents. Money, cash, dosh, spondulics, shekels, greenbacks (P.Green backs Nu Labour), bread, mazuma, in other words.
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 7:42pm Sun 2 Dec 07
More to come yet...
http://www.gregpalas
t.com/?p=1917&akst_a
ction=share-this
More to come yet...
http://www.gregpalas
t.com/?p=1917&akst_a
ction=share-this
Posted by: Jim, Irvine on 7:55pm Sun 2 Dec 07
The Legal faction who prevented the 'Cash for
Honours' Honest Cop John Yates from doing his duty will try to do the same with this Dodgy Donation Fraud.
I would urge the Scottish Government to be on guard and convene a Holyrood Investigation and kick those involved out of Holyrood. This will show the Scottish people that;
WE NEED INDEPENDENCE NOW !
The Legal faction who prevented the 'Cash for
Honours' Honest Cop John Yates from doing his duty will try to do the same with this Dodgy Donation Fraud.
I would urge the Scottish Government to be on guard and convene a Holyrood Investigation and kick those involved out of Holyrood. This will show the Scottish people that;
WE NEED INDEPENDENCE NOW !
Posted by: snip, orkney on 8:03pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Nothing particularly new here. This is Monklands Council writ large, rotten and corrupt, thinking they are above the law, they cannot even manage to work within perameters of their own creation. McCabe should resign as well as Alexander. This is as good a reason as any for independance. Labour is not even fit for opposition. They have givn Scotland 4 numpty leaders in a row. Thank God Alexandr is not First Minister.
Nothing particularly new here. This is Monklands Council writ large, rotten and corrupt, thinking they are above the law, they cannot even manage to work within perameters of their own creation. McCabe should resign as well as Alexander. This is as good a reason as any for independance. Labour is not even fit for opposition. They have givn Scotland 4 numpty leaders in a row. Thank God Alexandr is not First Minister.
Posted by: stonehaven on 9:28pm Sun 2 Dec 07
She will be gone before Christmas. Iain, so disappointed in your lack of professionalism and evident political bias. Also, very few people have truly rated Wendy in the way you describe.
She will be gone before Christmas. Iain, so disappointed in your lack of professionalism and evident political bias. Also, very few people have truly rated Wendy in the way you describe.
Posted by: John J. Sheridan, Z'ha'dum on 11:05pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Lets not forget Whitton when we are reaching for the pitchforks and torches !
He is a manipulative slime ball of the first order, I hope he goes down with the ship.
Lets not forget Whitton when we are reaching for the pitchforks and torches !
He is a manipulative slime ball of the first order, I hope he goes down with the ship.
Posted by: Joe McT, BlairsFantasyIsland on 11:12pm Sun 2 Dec 07
"It is truely a dreadfull irony that it is greed and fraud that will do it for NEW LABOUR.
The Mass-Murder of 677,000 Iraq women ,men, and kiddies and the perpetra