Why Wendy has no choice but to go Opinion IT LOOKS as if this could be the end of the road for Wendy Alexander's leadership. A tragedy for her and a disaster for the Scottish Labour Party. But after the Sunday Herald's revelations today, it is difficult to see how she can continue in office. There are now glaring contradictions in her account of the illegal donations affair.
WENDYGATE
| The donors | | Who gave to Wendy's campaign ... and the members of the team who brought in the cash |
|
|
We were told last week that the Scottish Labour leader had not been made aware until lunchtime on Thursday of the illegal nature of the donation made by the tax exile Paul Green. But we now have evidence that her team had doubts about whether it was "permissible" as early as November 5.
The internal Labour document also suggests a potentially unethical attempt to conceal the identity of another prospective business donor, Moir Lockhead of First Group. It seems Labour had intended to tell the Electoral Commission that a donation listed in his name had come from the former Labour MP John Lyons, although ultimately Lockhead declined to donate to the campaign.
This takes Alexander into altogether more treacherous legal waters. For she now faces allegations of intent to deceive. Hitherto, it had been possible - just - to believe that Alexander had been a victim of the incompetence of her campaign staff. Like Gordon Brown, she could claim that the unlawful donations had come as a profound shock to her.
But that is no longer sustainable. Her team was clearly fully aware of what was being done in her name and could have prevented it going any further.
She may not fully have appreciated the significance of what was going on, but ignorance, in this matter, is no excuse. Alexander is the "regulated donee" and in law responsible for these misdemeanours even if she didn't inspire them.
It was, after all, her own government that created these rules on political donations. The law against proxy donations is a Labour law, as is the law against accepting cash from individuals not eligible to vote in UK elections. Of all people in the Scottish Labour establishment, Alexander should have been across this. She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock.
But sometimes very intelligent people can do stupid things. It may be that she and her confederates believed that, since the leadership election for which they were soliciting donations had never happened, they didn't need to bother with obeying the rules. If so, it was a fatal miscalculation. The money didn't actually have to be spent for the law to be broken.
Defenders of Alexander will no doubt say that the sums involved were trivial and that the laws broken were not serious ones. That the nature of the offences does not warrant the ultimate penalty of resignation. I have some sympathy with this view myself. So do some members of rival parties, who are no doubt thinking "there but for the grace of God go I".
However, we didn't frame the laws, the Labour government did. A Labour leader simply cannot be seen to transgress them knowingly and with impunity.
Perhaps Alexander has some elaborate explanation to offer the public about the affair. If so, we would be the first to want to hear it. But in the absence of such a defence, her future looks bleak.
It could take months for the full implications of this story to be teased out. The police will no doubt have to be involved at some stage. Alexander has resigned from ministerial office once before, after Jack McConnell's "night of the Claymores" in 2001. The one thing we do know about her is that she is a quitter. But this could be her final departure.
|
|
Posted by: Jimbo on 12:45am Sun 2 Dec 07
"the sums involved were trivial and that the laws broken were not serious ones....."I have some sympathy with this view myself."
Is that so Mr Macwhirter?
I would point out to you that a conspiracy to deceive the Electoral Commission (not to mention Parliament and the electorate) was going on here. If charged with conspiracy it could end up with the lot of them appearing in the High Court. Which in all truth, is what they deserve.
We are now all witnessing the Labour Party friendly Scottish(?) media propaganda machine swinging into action to downplay the severity of the crime before it gets to the jury.
"the sums involved were trivial and that the laws broken were not serious ones....."I have some sympathy with this view myself."
Is that so Mr Macwhirter?
I would point out to you that a conspiracy to deceive the Electoral Commission (not to mention Parliament and the electorate) was going on here. If charged with conspiracy it could end up with the lot of them appearing in the High Court. Which in all truth, is what they deserve.
We are now all witnessing the Labour Party friendly Scottish(?) media propaganda machine swinging into action to downplay the severity of the crime before it gets to the jury.
Posted by: canofworms, Glasgow on 12:47am Sun 2 Dec 07
Iain, why are you still making excuses for her and dressing this all up? One word will do it, LIES.
Iain, why are you still making excuses for her and dressing this all up? One word will do it, LIES.
Posted by: doonhamer on 1:02am Sun 2 Dec 07
A series of articles now published in the Sunday Herald connects Alexander to a direct cover up of the donation and its source.
These articles are a DEATH BLOW to the conspirators. It implicates Alexander through her husband's computer. It proves that McCabe and Whitton knowingly lied when confronted by the media. It proves that Gordon and others fabricated information to be passed on to the Electoral Commission. It proves that Alexander made a false statement in Parliament.
[bold]In short, nothing less than the resignations of Alexander, McCabe, Gordon and Whitton from Holyrood will suffice. It is time to call in the police.[/bold]
A series of articles now published in the Sunday Herald connects Alexander to a direct cover up of the donation and its source.
These articles are a DEATH BLOW to the conspirators. It implicates Alexander through her husband's computer. It proves that McCabe and Whitton knowingly lied when confronted by the media. It proves that Gordon and others fabricated information to be passed on to the Electoral Commission. It proves that Alexander made a false statement in Parliament.
In short, nothing less than the resignations of Alexander, McCabe, Gordon and Whitton from Holyrood will suffice. It is time to call in the police.
Posted by: Who gives a..., Glasgow on 1:05am Sun 2 Dec 07
Dressing Mutton as Lamb is one thing!!
Economical with the truth is another!!
Both equally dubious, well used and accepted political ploys, but all of this saga goes way beyond these. There is no amount of weasel-words that can get Scottish Labour and the Holyrood Leadership clique out from under this one.
Dressing Mutton as Lamb is one thing!!
Economical with the truth is another!!
Both equally dubious, well used and accepted political ploys, but all of this saga goes way beyond these. There is no amount of weasel-words that can get Scottish Labour and the Holyrood Leadership clique out from under this one.
Posted by: Wullie on 1:18am Sun 2 Dec 07
McCabe, Gordon, whitton and Alexander.
Liars, liars and liars with total and utter contempt for the law and for the electorate to whom they are supposed to serve.
One they should resign forthwith as MSP's to give the people a choice to pronounce on what they think, and two they should be charged with breaking the law and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Sadly, as events have shown down south, both the Police and the Prosecution Service can be influenced, such is the shadow of corruption that stalks this land.
McCabe, Gordon, whitton and Alexander.
Liars, liars and liars with total and utter contempt for the law and for the electorate to whom they are supposed to serve.
One they should resign forthwith as MSP's to give the people a choice to pronounce on what they think, and two they should be charged with breaking the law and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Sadly, as events have shown down south, both the Police and the Prosecution Service can be influenced, such is the shadow of corruption that stalks this land.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:20am Sun 2 Dec 07
Ian Leaves Open a Door[quote]IT LOOKS as if this could be the end of the road for Wendy Alexander's leadership.[/quote] Nothing like hedging your bets, Ian.
She is certainly tainted, most probably involved, and utterly damned. She will be writing her resignation speech now to tender to Gordon Brown.
"Though I am guilty of no wrong doing, in light of the ongoing police investigation into the matter of party funds it is inappropriate for me to continue as leader, therefore it is in the best interest of the party that I step down. I wish to add how proud I was to serve a very great party, and my homeland, Scotland."
[italic]Sniff, choke, gulp![/italic]
[bold]It's only a few days ago her spokesperson said she would, "Tough it out."
That will be in Unit 12, Cell Block "H," I presume.[/bold]
Ian Leaves Open a Door
IT LOOKS as if this could be the end of the road for Wendy Alexander's leadership.
Nothing like hedging your bets, Ian.
She is certainly tainted, most probably involved, and utterly damned. She will be writing her resignation speech now to tender to Gordon Brown.
"Though I am guilty of no wrong doing, in light of the ongoing police investigation into the matter of party funds it is inappropriate for me to continue as leader, therefore it is in the best interest of the party that I step down. I wish to add how proud I was to serve a very great party, and my homeland, Scotland."
Sniff, choke, gulp!
It's only a few days ago her spokesperson said she would, "Tough it out."
That will be in Unit 12, Cell Block "H," I presume. Posted by: canofworms, Glasgow on 1:20am Sun 2 Dec 07
Iain why would you have sympathy with someone who has knowingly attempted to deceive while intending to profit financially from that action? Are you saying it doesn't matter? You really do have to make up your mind on this issue because to write as you have done today in this and in another article simply isn't good enough for those of us who want to see politics cleaned up.
What is wrong with wanting transparency and, dare I say it, honesty in politics? Why are you not outraged at the goings on here and in London over the deception involved and the fact that we aren't talking about a memory lapse or a simple mistake but a deliberate tactic to keep certain things secret? Why are you not willing to condemn such things outright and say they are wrong, that we deserve better?
Iain do you realise that these matters have brought day to day government at Westminster almost to a standstill? Do you not realise the impact caused? Or that a Tory Party which, just months ago was still languishing half dead on the opposition benches with little hope of coming alive again, is now seriously fancying it's chances of being back in government? And you sit typing these articles apparently without a care in the world, other than to throw in little lines here and there, which suggest that you SYMPATHISE with those within Labour who have caused it through their lies and deceit? Where is the condemnation, the disgust, the advice to these people that that voters deserve better? Your conscience appears to be hiding somewhere along with theirs!
Iain why would you have sympathy with someone who has knowingly attempted to deceive while intending to profit financially from that action? Are you saying it doesn't matter? You really do have to make up your mind on this issue because to write as you have done today in this and in another article simply isn't good enough for those of us who want to see politics cleaned up.
What is wrong with wanting transparency and, dare I say it, honesty in politics? Why are you not outraged at the goings on here and in London over the deception involved and the fact that we aren't talking about a memory lapse or a simple mistake but a deliberate tactic to keep certain things secret? Why are you not willing to condemn such things outright and say they are wrong, that we deserve better?
Iain do you realise that these matters have brought day to day government at Westminster almost to a standstill? Do you not realise the impact caused? Or that a Tory Party which, just months ago was still languishing half dead on the opposition benches with little hope of coming alive again, is now seriously fancying it's chances of being back in government? And you sit typing these articles apparently without a care in the world, other than to throw in little lines here and there, which suggest that you SYMPATHISE with those within Labour who have caused it through their lies and deceit? Where is the condemnation, the disgust, the advice to these people that that voters deserve better? Your conscience appears to be hiding somewhere along with theirs!
Posted by: Ron on 2:30am Sun 2 Dec 07
"Defenders of Alexander will no doubt say that the sums involved were trivial and that the laws broken were not serious ones. That the nature of the offences does not warrant the ultimate penalty of resignation. I have some sympathy with this view myself"
Then shame on you, Ian! Shame on you! The arrogance of this woman is so typical of so many in this party which is reputed to once have cared for ordinary people (bit before my time), and the only way they have been able to get away with it for so long is because people like yourself, Ian,....people who might think of themselves as opinion formers.....have indeed helped form the opinion which allows these people to say by their actions, "I can do what I like. Nobody can touch me. I'm in the Labour Party".
So the sums involved were trivial? In their world, so they were. But that makes the whole thing so much worse. The fact that they were clearly willing to act in this stupid and illegal way for TRIVIAL sums begs the question...What were they willing to do for large sums? And the world of Mr. Green and Mr.Gordon is involved in very large sums of money indeed.
The final point is that the ultimate penelty in this case is NOT resignation. It is a jail term. And even the Daily Record yesterday ran a story that Alexander was in danger of facing a jail sentence. Now, when the Daily Record makes no attempt to excuse a labour leader you REALLY know that they are in trouble! I can only say that your halfhearted excuses for this woman are extremely disappointing. Anyone in her party who has a shred of integrety left certainly won't excuse her, or her Team.
"Defenders of Alexander will no doubt say that the sums involved were trivial and that the laws broken were not serious ones. That the nature of the offences does not warrant the ultimate penalty of resignation. I have some sympathy with this view myself"
Then shame on you, Ian! Shame on you! The arrogance of this woman is so typical of so many in this party which is reputed to once have cared for ordinary people (bit before my time), and the only way they have been able to get away with it for so long is because people like yourself, Ian,....people who might think of themselves as opinion formers.....have indeed helped form the opinion which allows these people to say by their actions, "I can do what I like. Nobody can touch me. I'm in the Labour Party".
So the sums involved were trivial? In their world, so they were. But that makes the whole thing so much worse. The fact that they were clearly willing to act in this stupid and illegal way for TRIVIAL sums begs the question...What were they willing to do for large sums? And the world of Mr. Green and Mr.Gordon is involved in very large sums of money indeed.
The final point is that the ultimate penelty in this case is NOT resignation. It is a jail term. And even the Daily Record yesterday ran a story that Alexander was in danger of facing a jail sentence. Now, when the Daily Record makes no attempt to excuse a labour leader you REALLY know that they are in trouble! I can only say that your halfhearted excuses for this woman are extremely disappointing. Anyone in her party who has a shred of integrety left certainly won't excuse her, or her Team.
Posted by: M on 3:46am Sun 2 Dec 07
Henry, Henry...
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 4:05am Sun 2 Dec 07
If the labour party put up a deep fried mars bar for leader. Glaswegians would vote for it. It would probably be a landslide for the deep fried mars bar.
If the labour party put up a deep fried mars bar for leader. Glaswegians would vote for it. It would probably be a landslide for the deep fried mars bar.
Posted by: Angus, Aberdeen on 4:26am Sun 2 Dec 07
Wullie
Ya dafty...oops! deep fried mars bars originated in Dundee!
;-)
Wullie
Ya dafty...oops! deep fried mars bars originated in Dundee!
;-)
Posted by: martin, dundee on 6:36am Sun 2 Dec 07
Lying to the media and to the people.These are the main charges against Alexander.Cover-up and sleaze is the outcome.
First however was the attempt to cover up names of donors by using(abusing?) the £1000 rule.What did they have to hide? I think a full list of donors should be made available to the public.
Alexander has no moral values if she and her team are capable of such deceit.She should resign but the fact that she is trying to hang on to her position is telling.Does she really think she can tough this out? it begs the question-What does she think the electorate are.In staying on she is showing contempt to for the people of Scotland.
Lying to the media and to the people.These are the main charges against Alexander.Cover-up and sleaze is the outcome.
First however was the attempt to cover up names of donors by using(abusing?) the £1000 rule.What did they have to hide? I think a full list of donors should be made available to the public.
Alexander has no moral values if she and her team are capable of such deceit.She should resign but the fact that she is trying to hang on to her position is telling.Does she really think she can tough this out? it begs the question-What does she think the electorate are.In staying on she is showing contempt to for the people of Scotland.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 6:49am Sun 2 Dec 07
She seems too stupid to resign and will only hang on while more revelations; recriminations, blame shifting, grassing and grafting will come out, making matters worse. She will have to be dragged oot kicking and screaming, like a Blair's baby, into the nineteenth century.
She seems too stupid to resign and will only hang on while more revelations; recriminations, blame shifting, grassing and grafting will come out, making matters worse. She will have to be dragged oot kicking and screaming, like a Blair's baby, into the nineteenth century.
Posted by: jdk, Inverness on 7:15am Sun 2 Dec 07
Of course with the position in Scotland and England it will be the taxpayers who pay for the police and other enquiries. [bold]Can these costs be claimed back from the criminals?[/bold]
Of course with the position in Scotland and England it will be the taxpayers who pay for the police and other enquiries.
Can these costs be claimed back from the criminals? Posted by: jdk, Inverness on 7:19am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]In staying on she is showing contempt to for the people of Scotland.[/quote]
That has no consequence to politicians. They are pretty much in it for themselves. I am sure most people now know that.
In staying on she is showing contempt to for the people of Scotland.
That has no consequence to politicians. They are pretty much in it for themselves. I am sure most people now know that.
Posted by: Jo'Burg Jock, South Africa on 8:19am Sun 2 Dec 07
If Wendy Alexander were to take the rightful course and resign now, it would turn up the wattage on the corruption spotlight focused on Maggie Broon in England.
She is of course finished as a politician in Scotland.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal already in place which will ensure Wendy Alexander of some reward (to be made at some point in the future) in return for her not causing more sensational headlines against Broon by resigning immediately.
This "reward" will take the form of a package deal which will include "lightening" or even covering up the criminal charges which she now faces, plus..... some nice fat sinecure.
She is, after all, a career politician who cares nothing about Paisley or Scotland.
If the "deal is not already in place then it is most probably being "negotiated" at this very moment, with her "big pal" Maggie Broon.
Her leverage will include her "knowledge" of other unsavoury items which Maggie Broon would rather keep quiet.
At least for now.
If Wendy Alexander were to take the rightful course and resign now, it would turn up the wattage on the corruption spotlight focused on Maggie Broon in England.
She is of course finished as a politician in Scotland.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal already in place which will ensure Wendy Alexander of some reward (to be made at some point in the future) in return for her not causing more sensational headlines against Broon by resigning immediately.
This "reward" will take the form of a package deal which will include "lightening" or even covering up the criminal charges which she now faces, plus..... some nice fat sinecure.
She is, after all, a career politician who cares nothing about Paisley or Scotland.
If the "deal is not already in place then it is most probably being "negotiated" at this very moment, with her "big pal" Maggie Broon.
Her leverage will include her "knowledge" of other unsavoury items which Maggie Broon would rather keep quiet.
At least for now.
Posted by: Mr Fourmile, That London on 8:30am Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
If the labour party put up a deep fried mars bar for leader. Glaswegians would vote for it. It would probably be a landslide for the deep fried mars bar.[/quote] ...with 20 Regal King Size as deputy.
Choosing which party to vote for must be a big connundrum for orphans in Glasgow.
Wullie wrote:
If the labour party put up a deep fried mars bar for leader. Glaswegians would vote for it. It would probably be a landslide for the deep fried mars bar.
...with 20 Regal King Size as deputy.
Choosing which party to vote for must be a big connundrum for orphans in Glasgow.
Posted by: mt on 9:02am Sun 2 Dec 07
£995 is not a lot of money for some but a huge fortune to others.
It is said that everyone will sell their honesty for a price and the Herald has established what Wendy Alexander and Co's price is.
Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.
£995 is not a lot of money for some but a huge fortune to others.
It is said that everyone will sell their honesty for a price and the Herald has established what Wendy Alexander and Co's price is.
Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 9:23am Sun 2 Dec 07
I can see it coming - Wendy will resign and be given a safe English Westminster seat, where here crimes will be explained away as some quaint little Scottish matter of no consequence.
I can see it coming - Wendy will resign and be given a safe English Westminster seat, where here crimes will be explained away as some quaint little Scottish matter of no consequence.
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 9:47am Sun 2 Dec 07
Wendy Alexander WILL resigh - as leader of the "Labour" group of MSPs - when Gordon Brown and her brother tell her to.
Wendy Alexander WILL resigh - as leader of the "Labour" group of MSPs - when Gordon Brown and her brother tell her to.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 10:04am Sun 2 Dec 07
re: "She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock. But sometimes very intelligent people can do stupid things."
The other options are;
A stupid person doing a stupid thing.
A person who intended to conceal and deceive others in a stupid way.
Mr MacWhirter please stop offering excuses, lifelines, etc for the way that senior Labour politicians have acted. They knowingly broke the law by concealment, by deceit and by cover-up.
re: "She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock. But sometimes very intelligent people can do stupid things."
The other options are;
A stupid person doing a stupid thing.
A person who intended to conceal and deceive others in a stupid way.
Mr MacWhirter please stop offering excuses, lifelines, etc for the way that senior Labour politicians have acted. They knowingly broke the law by concealment, by deceit and by cover-up.
Posted by: Thomas, Edinburgh on 10:24am Sun 2 Dec 07
BIG problem for the Scottish Labour Party now is that they are no longer synonymous with the Scottish Executive/Government - they're on their own with no access to the Government Smoke'n Mirrors Machine to field the press feeding frenzy. Their 'in-house''spinners'
; Whitton, McCabe, Gordon, Wendy et al, are being exposed for the incompetent, blustering stairheid bullies they really are.
BIG problem for the Scottish Labour Party now is that they are no longer synonymous with the Scottish Executive/Government - they're on their own with no access to the Government Smoke'n Mirrors Machine to field the press feeding frenzy. Their 'in-house''spinners'
; Whitton, McCabe, Gordon, Wendy et al, are being exposed for the incompetent, blustering stairheid bullies they really are.
Posted by: Martin Woodward, Angola on 10:35am Sun 2 Dec 07
What I don't understand is why any of us should be surprised.
Politician is simply [italic]their[/italic] anagram of crook.
What I don't understand is why any of us should be surprised.
Politician is simply
their anagram of crook.
Posted by: Al on 10:44am Sun 2 Dec 07
The author calls it a tragedy for Alexander.
Not a description normally associated with criminals being caught in the act I'm sure you'll agree.
No, the real tragedy is one for Scottish politics that these arrogant crooks believe they have some kind of divine right to be our leaders.
I note they have refused to resign and are, presumably, still taking their wages from the public purse.
The author calls it a tragedy for Alexander.
Not a description normally associated with criminals being caught in the act I'm sure you'll agree.
No, the real tragedy is one for Scottish politics that these arrogant crooks believe they have some kind of divine right to be our leaders.
I note they have refused to resign and are, presumably, still taking their wages from the public purse.
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., Herald - 1 Hootmon - 0 on 11:11am Sun 2 Dec 07
Well done to this paper for free speach and opinion. I have visited the Hootsmon and I am shocked at the complicity to cover up and supress.
[bold]
The editor their should be ashamed calling himself an editor.[/bold]
Well done to this paper for free speach and opinion. I have visited the Hootsmon and I am shocked at the complicity to cover up and supress.
The editor their should be ashamed calling himself an editor. Posted by: sandy on 11:29am Sun 2 Dec 07
What rips ma knittin is that while they may be forced to resign their party positions,leader etc. it seems to be held to be perfectly acceptable that they continue as MSPs.
Why should that be?
What rips ma knittin is that while they may be forced to resign their party positions,leader etc. it seems to be held to be perfectly acceptable that they continue as MSPs.
Why should that be?
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 11:57am Sun 2 Dec 07
Poor old Ian! he can't quite bring himself - as unreconstructed NEW LABOUR hack - to condemn outright thise rable of filthy crooks and gangsters that have taken over the Labour Party. One can just imagine the scenes if Salmond and his Party were in a similar postion to Alexander. These viscious evil hacks would lay siege to his home, his friends and family. Perhaps though the most absurdist
senario played out last week was the unedifying spectacle of OOR KIRSTY on Newsnight
pretending to put NEW LABOUR on the carpet. Pathetic does not do it justice!
But of course we all know that this is just the tip of a very large iceberg of coruption
in public life. From council level upwards the
poiticians are on the make and on the take.
One Glasgow councilor in N. West Glasgow
manages to trouser in excess of £250,000 per year with all the stipends and allowances available to him. And thats without the brown envelopes of which will be mandatory if you
wish "help" with planning, licensing, awarding contracts etc etc.
And the reason politics is so filthy in this country? guys like Ian. Complacent, smug and self satisfied the fifth estate, a creature of the middle classes, has simply turning its head away from those crooks thieves and profesional liars that make up our political classes. And of course the cops and prosecuters have their own "extra income channels!"
Poor old Ian! he can't quite bring himself - as unreconstructed NEW LABOUR hack - to condemn outright thise rable of filthy crooks and gangsters that have taken over the Labour Party. One can just imagine the scenes if Salmond and his Party were in a similar postion to Alexander. These viscious evil hacks would lay siege to his home, his friends and family. Perhaps though the most absurdist
senario played out last week was the unedifying spectacle of OOR KIRSTY on Newsnight
pretending to put NEW LABOUR on the carpet. Pathetic does not do it justice!
But of course we all know that this is just the tip of a very large iceberg of coruption
in public life. From council level upwards the
poiticians are on the make and on the take.
One Glasgow councilor in N. West Glasgow
manages to trouser in excess of £250,000 per year with all the stipends and allowances available to him. And thats without the brown envelopes of which will be mandatory if you
wish "help" with planning, licensing, awarding contracts etc etc.
And the reason politics is so filthy in this country? guys like Ian. Complacent, smug and self satisfied the fifth estate, a creature of the middle classes, has simply turning its head away from those crooks thieves and profesional liars that make up our political classes. And of course the cops and prosecuters have their own "extra income channels!"
Posted by: canofworms, Glasgow on 12:14pm Sun 2 Dec 07
<passes more wool to Sandy> Sandy, I agree with you. There was a time when the word "lie" sent politicians into a dead faint so serious an offence was it to be actually caught out in one. It meant immediate resignation. Yet still she clings on.
I agree also that to simply resign her position as Leader isn't enough. All involved in this business should not only resign their shadow positions, they should step down as MSPs because they have broken the law.
Remember people power Sandy? We need some of that to keep pushing. We also need responsible journalism from papers like the Herald and the Sunday Herald (Mr MacWhirter please note!) who should be demanding a complete clear out and an end to "donations" full stop.
Apathy has caused a lot of this too because so many people disengaged from politics all over the country in recent years, some for good reason, others because they just don't care. It left political parties free to do what they wanted as no one was much bothered anyway, only the few, and we weren't a big enough group to make a difference. Not even when Blair took us to Iraq did enough people express their absolute horror towards such a move. Frightening isn't it?
I dislike many of Wullie of Aberdeen's comments on these sites but on the subject of the tendency of the people of Glasgow to vote Labour no matter what I cannot disagree with him. That is what has returned Labour again and again through decades of corruption at Council level, particularly in Glasgow. I once thought of it as loyalty, I now think of it as sheer stupidity and perhaps, to quote that old saying, we ended up with the corrupt politicians we deserved.
<passes more wool to Sandy> Sandy, I agree with you. There was a time when the word "lie" sent politicians into a dead faint so serious an offence was it to be actually caught out in one. It meant immediate resignation. Yet still she clings on.
I agree also that to simply resign her position as Leader isn't enough. All involved in this business should not only resign their shadow positions, they should step down as MSPs because they have broken the law.
Remember people power Sandy? We need some of that to keep pushing. We also need responsible journalism from papers like the Herald and the Sunday Herald (Mr MacWhirter please note!) who should be demanding a complete clear out and an end to "donations" full stop.
Apathy has caused a lot of this too because so many people disengaged from politics all over the country in recent years, some for good reason, others because they just don't care. It left political parties free to do what they wanted as no one was much bothered anyway, only the few, and we weren't a big enough group to make a difference. Not even when Blair took us to Iraq did enough people express their absolute horror towards such a move. Frightening isn't it?
I dislike many of Wullie of Aberdeen's comments on these sites but on the subject of the tendency of the people of Glasgow to vote Labour no matter what I cannot disagree with him. That is what has returned Labour again and again through decades of corruption at Council level, particularly in Glasgow. I once thought of it as loyalty, I now think of it as sheer stupidity and perhaps, to quote that old saying, we ended up with the corrupt politicians we deserved.
Posted by: Joe McT, BlairsFantasyIsland on 12:49pm Sun 2 Dec 07
"No, the real tragedy is one for Scottish politics that these arrogant crooks believe they have some kind of divine right to be our leaders."
Most Politicians are in it simply for themselves and that's perfectly understandable as very few of them could hold down a "proper job" in the real world.
I would say that over 90 per cent of them are either Rogues, Liars or totally useless.......just overpaid WINDBAGS.
Oh, and if you went into any Pub in Scotland (or England) and picked 20 people at random that would be better than Brown's cabinet of Numpties in Downing Street..
"No, the real tragedy is one for Scottish politics that these arrogant crooks believe they have some kind of divine right to be our leaders."
Most Politicians are in it simply for themselves and that's perfectly understandable as very few of them could hold down a "proper job" in the real world.
I would say that over 90 per cent of them are either Rogues, Liars or totally useless.......just overpaid WINDBAGS.
Oh, and if you went into any Pub in Scotland (or England) and picked 20 people at random that would be better than Brown's cabinet of Numpties in Downing Street..
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 2:35pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]the sums involved were trivial[/quote]
Tell me, Mr McWhirter, where do we draw the line on spivvery? Is it one pound, or one hundred thousand - it reeks of the old saying when a woman was asked by a man if she'd sleep with him for a thousand pounds.
When she said yes, the man asked if she'd do it for one pound.
Outraged, she said, "What do you think I am?"
The man replied, "Madam, we've established what you are, we're just haggling over the price."
[italic]Et tu,[/italic] Wendy.
the sums involved were trivial
Tell me, Mr McWhirter, where do we draw the line on spivvery? Is it one pound, or one hundred thousand - it reeks of the old saying when a woman was asked by a man if she'd sleep with him for a thousand pounds.
When she said yes, the man asked if she'd do it for one pound.
Outraged, she said, "What do you think I am?"
The man replied, "Madam, we've established what you are, we're just haggling over the price."
Et tu, Wendy.
Posted by: bert on 2:37pm Sun 2 Dec 07
We can talk all day about the finer points of this and that. The bottom line is what has happened is a CRIME. Pure and simple. The fact that we may have criminals in our Parliament once this is all done and dusted is an absolute disgrace.
As for resigning, Alexander can't. If she did for taking £950 then Harriet Harman would have no choice but to resign as she took £5000. This has the potential to really snowball and possibly bring down the government.
I'd also suggest now may be the perfect time to renege on the Edinburgh Trams project and force another election.
We can talk all day about the finer points of this and that. The bottom line is what has happened is a CRIME. Pure and simple. The fact that we may have criminals in our Parliament once this is all done and dusted is an absolute disgrace.
As for resigning, Alexander can't. If she did for taking £950 then Harriet Harman would have no choice but to resign as she took £5000. This has the potential to really snowball and possibly bring down the government.
I'd also suggest now may be the perfect time to renege on the Edinburgh Trams project and force another election.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 2:41pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock.[/quote]
And she displays it to full effct on the BBC Politics Show ....
http://www.youtube
.com/watch
?v=ekXT
jzsyaog
She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock.
And she displays it to full effct on the BBC Politics Show ....
http://www.youtube
.com/watch
?v=ekXT
jzsyaog
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 2:50pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]sandy[/bold] wrote:
What rips ma knittin is that while they may be forced to resign their party positions,leader etc. it seems to be held to be perfectly acceptable that they continue as MSPs. Why should that be?[/quote] Sandy, in Scotland the people are sovereign (Declaration of Independence, 1320) so write to the Presiding Officer and demand that he bar the following from Parliament until the police have them banged to rights:-
Alexander, McCabe, Whitton, Baillie and Gordon.
The e-mail address is:-
Alex.Fergusson.
msp@scottish
.parliament
.uk
NB Fergusson has two "SS"s (an Ayrshire quirk, not his previous job!)
sandy wrote:
What rips ma knittin is that while they may be forced to resign their party positions,leader etc. it seems to be held to be perfectly acceptable that they continue as MSPs. Why should that be?
Sandy, in Scotland the people are sovereign (Declaration of Independence, 1320) so write to the Presiding Officer and demand that he bar the following from Parliament until the police have them banged to rights:-
Alexander, McCabe, Whitton, Baillie and Gordon.
The e-mail address is:-
Alex.Fergusson.
msp@scottish
.parliament
.uk
NB Fergusson has two "SS"s (an Ayrshire quirk, not his previous job!)
Posted by: andrew mackay on 3:04pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Alex.Fergusson.msp@s
cottish.parliament.u
k
Alex.Fergusson.msp@s
cottish.parliament.u
k
Posted by: bert on 3:07pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Alexander's also displaying another one of her particular skills - going to ground when the heat's on. Just as when there was the outcry about money for Scottish farmers during the F&M crisis, she again hasn't been heard of for days. She came to lead the party claiming she would stand up for Scotland. What she forgot to add was the bit about "unless London tells me not to", which is exactly why she hasn't resigned - yet. As was said earlier, if the Daily Labour is saying it's time to go then she really must be in the poo.
Alexander's also displaying another one of her particular skills - going to ground when the heat's on. Just as when there was the outcry about money for Scottish farmers during the F&M crisis, she again hasn't been heard of for days. She came to lead the party claiming she would stand up for Scotland. What she forgot to add was the bit about "unless London tells me not to", which is exactly why she hasn't resigned - yet. As was said earlier, if the Daily Labour is saying it's time to go then she really must be in the poo.
Posted by: dws on 3:47pm Sun 2 Dec 07
This is beyond party politics, it's corruption, pure and simple. It's illegal, it's irrefutable and it stinks.
The police investigation should proceed as soon as possible and this cancer in the body politic of our country should be excised.
This is beyond party politics, it's corruption, pure and simple. It's illegal, it's irrefutable and it stinks.
The police investigation should proceed as soon as possible and this cancer in the body politic of our country should be excised.
Posted by: bert on 4:47pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Just saw on BBC website she intends to stay on. Sounds like good news for the SNP!
Just saw on BBC website she intends to stay on. Sounds like good news for the SNP!
Posted by: dws on 5:11pm Sun 2 Dec 07
As reported on another thread, Lothian and Borders Police are now involved.
As reported on another thread, Lothian and Borders Police are now involved.
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 5:40pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote]She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock.[/quote] Aye, a wee stick of pink, sticky rock with the word "CORRUPT" all the way through.
She is supposed to be the most intelligent politician in the Scottish party with a brain the size of Dumbarton Rock.
Aye, a wee stick of pink, sticky rock with the word "CORRUPT" all the way through.
Posted by: claudero, Edinburgh on 6:23pm Sun 2 Dec 07
I had always supposed one of the main motivations behind the legislation now being discussed, and it seems flouted, was to prevent Sir Sean Connery from sending lots of cash to the SNP.
I can't see anything wrong with the £995s, if that was a case of discretion within the law.
Labour does however seem to have been representing some areas of Scottish academia, though, with the sloppiness and casual assumptions and imprecision in all these dealings. Global warming may lead to the feasibility of growing bananas in Scotland, though bananas do seem to have a claim for inclusion on some sort of logo.
Some readers might not remember, but be amused, by how a Daily Record scoop a long time ago resulted in a letter from one official of the party telling members not to read that publication.
I had always supposed one of the main motivations behind the legislation now being discussed, and it seems flouted, was to prevent Sir Sean Connery from sending lots of cash to the SNP.
I can't see anything wrong with the £995s, if that was a case of discretion within the law.
Labour does however seem to have been representing some areas of Scottish academia, though, with the sloppiness and casual assumptions and imprecision in all these dealings. Global warming may lead to the feasibility of growing bananas in Scotland, though bananas do seem to have a claim for inclusion on some sort of logo.
Some readers might not remember, but be amused, by how a Daily Record scoop a long time ago resulted in a letter from one official of the party telling members not to read that publication.
Posted by: doonhamer on 7:07pm Sun 2 Dec 07
[quote][bold]claudero[/bold] wrote:
I had always supposed one of the main motivations behind the legislation now being discussed, and it seems flouted, was to prevent Sir Sean Connery from sending lots of cash to the SNP. I can't see anything wrong with the £995s, if that was a case of discretion within the law. Labour does however seem to have been representing some areas of Scottish academia, though, with the sloppiness and casual assumptions and imprecision in all these dealings. Global warming may lead to the feasibility of growing bananas in Scotland, though bananas do seem to have a claim for inclusion on some sort of logo. Some readers might not remember, but be amused, by how a Daily Record scoop a long time ago resulted in a letter from one official of the party telling members not to read that publication. [/quote] ??????????????
claudero wrote:
I had always supposed one of the main motivations behind the legislation now being discussed, and it seems flouted, was to prevent Sir Sean Connery from sending lots of cash to the SNP. I can't see anything wrong with the £995s, if that was a case of discretion within the law. Labour does however seem to have been representing some areas of Scottish academia, though, with the sloppiness and casual assumptions and imprecision in all these dealings. Global warming may lead to the feasibility of growing bananas in Scotland, though bananas do seem to have a claim for inclusion on some sort of logo. Some readers might not remember, but be amused, by how a Daily Record scoop a long time ago resulted in a letter from one official of the party telling members not to read that publication.
??????????????
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 8:07pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Can she be tortured to extract her confession... I believe under US law... Waterboarding is within the law... and gets the desired Result
Can she be tortured to extract her confession... I believe under US law... Waterboarding is within the law... and gets the desired Result
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 8:11pm Sun 2 Dec 07
so... Police r lookin fo a floozy wey a stane fur a brain... Jings Soonds like Wendy Lips chief o the Labour Numpties
so... Police r lookin fo a floozy wey a stane fur a brain... Jings Soonds like Wendy Lips chief o the Labour Numpties
Posted by: James, Lanarkshire on 9:24pm Sun 2 Dec 07
There is more dirt being dug on the Westminster Government in the Mail on Sunday. It could very well be that Labour will not need to have Wendy stay in power as a defence against resignations in London. This is not going to go away anytime soon.
There is more dirt being dug on the Westminster Government in the Mail on Sunday. It could very well be that Labour will not need to have Wendy stay in power as a defence against resignations in London. This is not going to go away anytime soon.
Posted by: kettlesandpots, Glasgow on 10:59pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Duns, thank you for the email address. I have emailed him.
Duns, thank you for the email address. I have emailed him.
Posted by: kettlesandpots, Glasgow on 11:01pm Sun 2 Dec 07
Doon..........I know, I've read it 3 times now! hahaha
Doon..........I know, I've read it 3 times now! hahaha
Comment | Read Comments (46)
Print this story
Email to a friend
