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May 16, 2008 Est 1999 Scotland's award-winning independent newspaper
Schules tae teach the mither tongue
Move to end a cultural ‘blind spot’ gets official backing.
By Edd McCracken, Education Correspondent

IN A move that could be described as "braw" and "bonnie", the minister for schools and skills has said that the language of Scots should be used in the classroom.

Maureen Watt's statement is linked to the draft outcomes and experiences for literacy under the new Curriculum for Excellence, to be released this week, which will "ensure that schoolchildren are exposed to Scotland's literature and the languages of Scotland".

Writing in the Sunday Herald, Watt, the MSP for North East Scotland, said: "Now is the time for the children of Scotland to rediscover Scots." She added: "When being taught well, children in Scottish schools are learning about what constitutes good English. Likewise they should be guided on the value and place of Scots language and its use."

The move comes weeks after the culture minister, Linda Fabiani, announced an audit of the Scots language. The language of Robert Burns is recognised in the EU as an official language and is spoken by around 1.6 million people in Scotland.

Educationalists involved in Scots have described the move as "historic".

"I am absolutely delighted that an official recognition of Scots will be included in the curriculum," said Matthew Fitt, author and education and outreach officer for Itchy Coo, an imprint of publishers Black & White specialising in Scots language books for children. He was involved in translating Roald Dahl's book The Twits into Scots. Fitt's version is called The Eejits.

"It's been a long time coming and reflects the mood of schools across the country. It's a shame that Scotland, with its aspirations to being a modern country, has this blind spot on one area of its culture. Sometimes there is some hostility from certain circles. Most of us are bilingual between Scots and English. It's important to reflect this. It is historic."

At school in Dundee, Fitt was on the receiving end of some anti-Scots hostility.

"I got thumped," he said. "A certain generation has been through that. I said I dinnae ken' because I didnae ken. And the teacher instituted that strange way of teaching children in Scotland about their language which was to castigate me, humiliate me in front of the class by insisting I said, I don't know'. Modern countries don't do that to their children."

He added: "I've actually been back in that same room since, teaching Scots. I had to think how ironic."

Michael Hance, director of the Scots Language Centre in Perth said he congratulated Watt. "It's an important step towards recognising the diversity of language used in Scotland. Particularly in affirming in children's minds that the language they use is valid, deserves respect, is discussed and thought about in the classrooms."

Teaching unions welcomed the move with caution. EIS general secretary Ronnie Smith said: "The right of young people to be taught in their mother tongue is widely supported.

"However, given the diversity of language found among pupils in Scotland's schools, this would have very substantial resource implications if such aspirations are to be met in all subject areas, right across the curriculum and in all parts of Scotland."

Bill McGregor, general secretary of the Headteachers' Association of Scotland, was keen to differentiate Scots from slang: "There is a place for Scots, quite definitely. There is also a place where standard English is much more appropriate, for example working in history, mathematics and the sciences.

"We have no objections, provided it is used appropriately and provided there are staff that can actually use Scots. There is a difference between Scots and slang. But given that these conditions are met, that time is found for it, that there's proper resourcing, I would say why not?"

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Posted by: wee folding bike on 9:25pm Sat 16 Feb 08
Going to school in Ayrshire was odd in that respect. Most of the year they tried to stop you using local words but in January they insisted that you learn it for Burn's birthday.

Saw Wee Fairy Tales in the Citz today. It was great.
Posted by: Buchan Loon, The far Yonderton on 9:47pm Sat 16 Feb 08
It didnae stop Maureen - she spiks like 'at onywye!
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 9:56pm Sat 16 Feb 08
Before it even starts the saboteurs are at work:

Bill McGregor said:

There is also a place where standard English is much more appropriate, for example working in history, mathematics and the sciences.


And why would you think that Mr. McGregor? You probably think it's more appropriate to use Scots during that 30 minute period per week when weans get to read a Scots poem.

If Scots is a language then it is appropriate to use it for everything ye wee blether ye.
Posted by: ZX, Edinburgh on 10:51pm Sat 16 Feb 08
Aa'm a biddie on e aa-pairty curn on Scots leid, and at e meetin wi e meenister, Aa asked e quine fen is Scots appropriate. Aa pit forward e idea at we shid uise scots in aa subjects; at we shid just let e loons an quines scrieve uising er ain words, ere ain dialect, for gin ye dae at, en aa e barriers will come doon, for ey ar e eens fa'll be in e future scrievin e papers, e learnin books, e readin books, etc. Ere is nae place far scots is nae appropriate, and tae hink at is tae hink at e suddron claik is better an ony claik.

We widna say at Dutch fowk shidna be learnin mathematics in e Dutch, but in e German, so fitwy d'ye say Scots speaking bairns shid be learnin e samen in e Inglis?
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 11:59pm Sat 16 Feb 08
Ah hae a guid freen in Frankfurt an she's fae Finland. Her man is Italian and they hae twa bairns. The mither speaks the Finnish leid till the weans and their faither, Italian. (An they understaun.)

When ah visited them ah spoke German and English and the weans understood me. Nae bother, nae embarrassment, we were aa blythesome and kythesome - aa content.

In Scotlan, yaise the mither tung and fowk look askance. Here's a wee story (true). Ah wis staunin in a sweetie shoap in West Kilbride when a bairn came running in, pointed at some sweeties and shouted, "Ah wahnt a rid wan !" The mither glanced at me and checked the wee boy and said, "Speak proper! Ye wahnt a RED wan. "
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:19am Sun 17 Feb 08
Ah mind when Ah went tae school ye wurnae allowed tae speak in yer ain tung bit wur corectit it ance: "In class we use English - it's not "aye" but 'yes"! Ah thoat that wis awfy funny 'cause Ah wisnae English an this wisnae England - bit the tawse wis oan the desk waitin for thaim thit furgoat. Whit a wey tae treat weans.
Posted by: lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 7:52am Sun 17 Feb 08
I do not know why we are wasting money on this; Scots is a dialect of English in a similar way to Flemish (Vlams) is a dialect of Dutch.
Also when working abroad English is the main language of commerce.
I have no issue with our accents, plays in Scots, Burns, etc. because the accent, dialect or 'Scots' will always be with us, but we should not be wasting money on it, it will be with us for a very long time and we are unlikely to lose it.
Posted by: Steafan, Japan on 9:20am Sun 17 Feb 08
I think it's excellent news. However, I think most Scots speak English now, with a bit of Scots thrown in. You can see with people attempting to write it here, they are just using English words spelt in the way they would pronounce them. For example "tung" instead of "tongue". Gaelic should also be taught in schools.
Posted by: SpikWatch on 10:34am Sun 17 Feb 08
Buchan Loon wrote:
It didnae stop Maureen - she spiks like 'at onywye!
That's the trouble with this nonsense - no one knows what the rules are - "spiks" is a racist term not some backward form of "speaks"
Posted by: Phil on 11:48am Sun 17 Feb 08
This is a questionable project. Scots is English with a few spelling changes, and children, especially those from a deprived background, will have more of a chance in life if they speak decent English.

The distinctive language of Scotland is Gaelic and it is this which should be widely promoted. Perhaps some Gaelic programmes on the new TV chanell could have subtitles in Scots.
Posted by: John, Glasgow on 12:15pm Sun 17 Feb 08
A child communicates in the first five years of it's life in the environment it is accustomed to. Then it goes to a place of conformity that questions it's intellect based on an accent. The way they are made to feel about their accent has them questioning their ability and place in society.

How patronising of Phil to say that people from deprived areas should speak decent English to get on in life. Scottish accents should be celebrated they offer a diversity and individualism that is fast disappearing in these globally conditioned times.

Based on the comments of Phil the class system is alive and flourishing in 2008
Posted by: BM, Edinburgh on 12:18pm Sun 17 Feb 08
lobeydosser,
What is a dialect and what is a language is highly contentious. Is Norwegian a dialect of Danish, as everybody *knew* back in the 1910s, or is it a language in its own right? There are sufficient phonological, grammatical, and lexical differences between Scots and English that most scholars consider Scots to be a language in its own right. A more apt comparison might be between Frisian and Dutch.
English will still be a medium for teaching, and will still be an important language in Scotland. No-one is suggesting that we stop teaching English. Besides which, Swedes use Swedish in every school classroom and they are not hampered in their ability to trade.

Steafan,
Most Irish speak English now, with a bit of Irish Gaelic thrown in, but that doesn't mean provisions shouldn't be made for those who need it.
Scots and English share a large amount of vocabulary. So does Spanish and Catalonian, and similarly, you could say "they are just using Spanish words spelt in the way they would pronounce them". But that wouldn't be correct. The poster you refer to using "tung" instead of "tongue" also used "askance", "bairns", "leid", "weans", "blythesome", and "kythesome". The poster also uses Scots sentence constructions, and "English" words which have a different meaning in Scots.

***

As for Mr McGregor, does he think that Scots doesn't have words for numbers, or that English has dominion over scientific words? Most words we deal with in physics or chemistry are from greek or latin. There's no reason why we can't have Scots forms of these words. As for not teaching history in Scots, one wonders why. If Scots has the vocabulary for Scots lessons akin to English lessons, then it has the vocabulary for History lessons. If I can write a book on history in Scots, then it can surely be taught in Scots.
Posted by: Burd Tina on 12:37pm Sun 17 Feb 08
Phil wrote Scots is English with a few spelling changes

Since when? Scots developped as a language quite separately from English. For centuries it was the language of government, literature and culture, as pre-1707 documents show.
The "British" establishment tried to downgrade it as slang (or at best dialect), just as they did with non-English languages in their colonies.

But these languages didn't completely disappear. As in Scotland, they survived in informal conversation. Now these former colonies are finding that children learn best when taught in their traditional native language.

Congratulations to Maureen Watt on taking the initiative so that Scottish children can get the same benfit from being taught in Scots.
Posted by: lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 12:55pm Sun 17 Feb 08
Well thats me telt then!
Posted by: Alan C., Shetland on 1:24pm Sun 17 Feb 08
Up until recently, the bairns in Shetland schools were chastised for speaking in dialect.
This policy has now been completely turned around, and the bairns (including "incomers") are not only encouraged to use dialect, but are actually taught it, a good thing in my opinion.
Posted by: derek, edinburgh on 8:54pm Sun 17 Feb 08
In the old phrase, which I'm surprised no-one has quoted, 'a language is a dialect with an army'.
I'd be happy with Scots resurgam if we didn't stop pretending it had an agreed, universal orthography. It doesn't, so we get the jarring attempts to render spoken Scots into an acceptable written form, as seen in some of the posts above.
As to the view that the use of Scots denotes a lesser person, remember the tale of the Scottish lawyer, John Clerk, later Lord Edlin , pleading an appeal on a water rights case in the House of Lords. The Lord Chancellor found The Scot's use of his own vernacular pronuciation so amusing that he rudely interrupted to ask 'Mr Clerk do you spell water in Scotland with two t's?' Edlin replied ''Na, my Lord, we dinna spell water wi twa t's, but we spell mainners wi twa n's.'
I have a colleague who has risen to senior levels in his own professional body without feeling the need to lose his very broad Ayrshire accent, words and dialect, but he does not use a fake orthography to do so.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 11:57pm Sun 17 Feb 08
What is the English for "lobeydosser "? Yer up Calton Creek there my man!

Derek and others - if posters struggle to write in braid Scots it is not a flaw in the language, it is the result of 400 years of discouragement and lack of teaching.

By the way, John Clerk was Clerk of Eldin. OK a simple transpositional typo - we all do it. But what does the word "resurgam" mean? Is that English?

Posted by: claudero, Edinburgh on 2:59am Mon 18 Feb 08
"Yer up Calton creek"
Duns Scotus? It shoud be either 'you're' (preferable) or 'ye're' -- there's nae excuse for ungrammatical drivelling in Scots, or for the tawdry fakery of the Sots Languish Sodiety wi its illiterale pseudo-spellins. "That" shoud be "at" accordin til thae coofs, ignorant pedants. Sae their website hes a page wi an incomprehensible "at" raither nor "that" -- cretinous wee dictators. And grammar? Follae the demotic "we wes" and Hell tak aa the darg duin bi poets throu the 20th century.
"At ir" or "at is" for "that are"? How no hae aabody in UK spell things the wey they pronoonce them, wi nae care aboot comprehensibility? Root oot that dry rot o pendantry, and ignorant 'yer' for 'you are' -- unthinkin pedantry and unthinkin sloppiness alike -- afore Scots is taen seriously.
Posted by: sandra conklin, New Jersey, USA on 6:07am Mon 18 Feb 08
I have lived in the US since the 1960s. Some people still have a difficult time understanding me. Can you imagine what would happen if I spoke "Scottish"
I bet we would have some laughs!!!
Posted by: sandra conklin, New Jersey, USA on 6:07am Mon 18 Feb 08
I have lived in the US since the 1960s. Some people still have a difficult time understanding me. Can you imagine what would happen if I spoke "Scottish"
I bet we would have some laughs!!!
Posted by: Boab, Vancouver Island on 4:12am Tue 19 Feb 08
Scots a "dialect of English"? I wonder how my surrounding Canadian friends would respond to a regression to my youthful "dialect of English" if I were to ask one and all if they fancied "sclimmin a gey stey brae on a dreich day"? Or maybe making the observation " there's a muckle brough roon the muin the nicht---an ye ken whit they say aboot a brough roond the muin---a faur brough's a near stoarm , a near brough's a faur stoarm; no muckle yowes i' the braeface the morn's mornin---they'll a be cooryin doon in the beil o the knowe." And that, I can assure you, is a language which was,in my own youth, and probably is still commonly understood and used in South Ayrshire.
ALL "languages" come into being as the combination of many other languages---examine the "derivations" in the dictionary---English is no exception!
Posted by: Chris, USA on 6:01pm Wed 20 Feb 08
I've been in the USA for 30 years and have been quite successful because I could read and write proper English even though I still have quite a broad accent and even though I left school at 15. Thankfully, in Quarriers in the 40's and 50's, we had teachers who cared about the written word, from Burns to Shakespeare, Keats, Yeats and Shelley, who opened doors into other worlds for us in an otherwise sometimes bleak atmosphere. Just think what children will miss because shortsighted people take false pride in a society that has a hard time caring for it's own.

Will all the dialects be taught or will it depend on where you're raised? Will this be a separate class like French or Spanish? Isn't the Aberdeen dialect completely different from an Ayrshire dialect, won't this harden into division into regions? Will fights break out because one dialect thinks it's better than the other. Will it be complete immersion in a language that even those who speak it, can't read it? If Scottish is to be taught in schools, please make it Western Highlands. Just because dialects are used in private life does not mean you should not be taught proper speech and grammar in school. This is progression to the point of utter stupidity...well, utter stupidity will follow for sure. Gie's a break and gie the gormless edjits who thought this up the heid!

Chris
Posted by: Chris, USA on 6:06pm Wed 20 Feb 08
Don Scotus:

Our English teacher took my comic once and I said, "Aww Sir, gie us my comic". He replied, "It's not 'gie us', it's 'please gie us'". Nowt to beat a good dry Scots sense of humor.

Posted by: Chris, USA on 6:52pm Wed 20 Feb 08
I beg your pardon, Duns Scotus
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