Senior Labour figure: we can't rule out discussing break up of the UK By Paul HutcheonScottish Political Editor ONE OF Scottish Labour's most senior figures has stated that independence should be one of the options considered in any debate on constitutional change.
Steven Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council, said the SNP's priority was "legitimate" in the context of considering changes to the Scottish Parliament.
His stance contradicts the view of Labour's Holyrood leader Wendy Alexander, who does not believe independence should be part of any review of devolution.
The councillor's remarks, which were made in an interview with Holyrood magazine, come as Labour is divided on how to deal with the SNP government.
Alexander backed the creation of a Constitutional Commission to extend the Parliament's powers. The body has explicitly stated it will not consider independence alongside further devolution.
Some Scottish Labour MPs are sceptical, believing it will play to the SNP's agenda. Other MPs, such as Michael Connarty and John Robertson, favour a snap referendum on independence in order to defeat the SNP.
Purcell, who has been tipped as a future leader of Labour at Holyrood, has contradicted Alexander on the constitution by backing a debate on more powers for Holyrood and independence. He said: "Post-devolution Scotland will always have a debate about the Parliament, about the future and yes, it may possibly include independence. It is legitimate that it is part of the debate.
"There are two aspects; those who favour independence and there is always a consensus among other people that we should review the Parliament's powers and what powers it may have. The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."
He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation, which is the Scottish government's consultation on independence. "The administration in Glasgow is reflecting on the debate and we will take part in both consultations. It is right that the elected council in Glasgow speaks for the city," he said.
An SNP spokesperson said: "We welcome these remarks which reflect the inclusive nature of the National Conversation which accommodates the independence option as well as the more powers option. This further isolates Wendy Alexander and the Labour leadership in Scotland who continue to oppose the right of the people to decide their future in a democratic referendum."
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Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:12am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote]Purcell, who has been tipped as a future leader of Labour at Holyrood, has contradicted Alexander on the constitution by backing a debate on more powers for Holyrood and independence. He said: "Post-devolution Scotland will always have a debate about the Parliament, about the future and yes, it may possibly include independence. It is legitimate that it is part of the debate.
"There are two aspects; those who favour independence and there is always a consensus among other people that we should review the Parliament's powers and what powers it may have. The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."[/quote]
Welcome to the light.
Purcell, who has been tipped as a future leader of Labour at Holyrood, has contradicted Alexander on the constitution by backing a debate on more powers for Holyrood and independence. He said: "Post-devolution Scotland will always have a debate about the Parliament, about the future and yes, it may possibly include independence. It is legitimate that it is part of the debate.
"There are two aspects; those who favour independence and there is always a consensus among other people that we should review the Parliament's powers and what powers it may have. The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."
Welcome to the light.
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 12:15am Sun 20 Apr 08
[italic]He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation...[/italic]
I don't understand this comment. Purcell doesn't have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it.
He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation...
I don't understand this comment. Purcell doesn't have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it.
Posted by: immy fae the West, Embra on 12:25am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Jwil[/bold] wrote:
[italic]He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation...[/italic]
I don\'t understand this comment. Purcell doesn\'t have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it.
[/quote] Only Brown seems to have that authority. The Alexander Brothers are powerless, meaningless and pointless.
Jwil wrote:
He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation...
I don\'t understand this comment. Purcell doesn\'t have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it.
Only Brown seems to have that authority. The Alexander Brothers are powerless, meaningless and pointless.
Posted by: democrate, Tesco's forecourt on 12:34am Sun 20 Apr 08
Ooooh, Wendy won't like this much. I predict strife at the breakfast table tomorrow.
Ooooh, Wendy won't like this much. I predict strife at the breakfast table tomorrow.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:34am Sun 20 Apr 08
What a future NEW LABOUR have in Scotland if
this creature Purcell is set to take over from
the criminal Alexander. Yet another Right-Wing
extremist who has contibuted little to solving
Glasgows Poverty Pandemic
Hell they might as well elect THE NOBELNESS
THAT IS; THE BARON LORD GEORGE FOULKES, and be
done with it!
What a future NEW LABOUR have in Scotland if
this creature Purcell is set to take over from
the criminal Alexander. Yet another Right-Wing
extremist who has contibuted little to solving
Glasgows Poverty Pandemic
Hell they might as well elect THE NOBELNESS
THAT IS; THE BARON LORD GEORGE FOULKES, and be
done with it!
Posted by: ptdoug, ek on 12:36am Sun 20 Apr 08
Purcell is the future of Labour in Scotland. A new breed. A future (post independence) First Minister of Scotland.
As an SNP supporter I have been impressed with Purcell and wish to see him go from strength to strength.... and perhaps one day lead a true and independent Scottish Labour Party in an independent Scotland.
There are good, talented people, like Purcell, in Scottish Labour. But they have been disgracefuly led and tarnished by the actions of the incompetent, corrupt, careerist cabal of trough guzzling Westminster lackeys that have all but destroyed Labours credibility in Scotland.
Purcell could just be the guy that the "good guys" (and there are many) in the Labour movement in Scotland could rally around to reclaim the Scottish Labour Party from the New Labour Bliarite bandits that hi-jacked it.
Purcell is the future of Labour in Scotland. A new breed. A future (post independence) First Minister of Scotland.
As an SNP supporter I have been impressed with Purcell and wish to see him go from strength to strength.... and perhaps one day lead a true and independent Scottish Labour Party in an independent Scotland.
There are good, talented people, like Purcell, in Scottish Labour. But they have been disgracefuly led and tarnished by the actions of the incompetent, corrupt, careerist cabal of trough guzzling Westminster lackeys that have all but destroyed Labours credibility in Scotland.
Purcell could just be the guy that the "good guys" (and there are many) in the Labour movement in Scotland could rally around to reclaim the Scottish Labour Party from the New Labour Bliarite bandits that hi-jacked it.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:38am Sun 20 Apr 08
Purcell breaking cover....... the guy's pretty forward thinking and would be an interesting choice for a future leader of labour.........
in an independent scotland........
Purcell breaking cover....... the guy's pretty forward thinking and would be an interesting choice for a future leader of labour.........
in an independent scotland........
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 12:46am Sun 20 Apr 08
Labour can only bury their heads in the sand for so long.
The denial of the Realpolitik by the current leadership both in Scotland at Westminister is the biggest driver to Independence.
Keep up the good work Wendy, great job Gordon, Mr Purcell can stick to keeping Glasgow the poor, unhealthy man of Europe.
Only Independence will fix the Labour mess
Labour can only bury their heads in the sand for so long.
The denial of the Realpolitik by the current leadership both in Scotland at Westminister is the biggest driver to Independence.
Keep up the good work Wendy, great job Gordon, Mr Purcell can stick to keeping Glasgow the poor, unhealthy man of Europe.
Only Independence will fix the Labour mess
Posted by: democrate, the but'n'ben on 12:48am Sun 20 Apr 08
I think he wants to be a big fish in a wee pond,and if I was Wendy, I would be very very scared. Then again, maybe relief would overcome me.
I think he wants to be a big fish in a wee pond,and if I was Wendy, I would be very very scared. Then again, maybe relief would overcome me.
Posted by: Future thinker, Central Scotland on 12:59am Sun 20 Apr 08
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 1:04am Sun 20 Apr 08
Purcell, who has been tipped as a future leader of Labour at Holyrood, has contradicted Alexander on the constitution by backing a debate on more powers for Holyrood and independence. He said: "Post-devolution Scotland will always have a debate about the Parliament, about the future and yes, it may possibly include independence. It is legitimate that it is part of the debate.
"There are two aspects; those who favour independence and there is always a consensus among other people that we should review the Parliament's powers and what powers it may have. The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."
Are we witnessing the first teeny steps towards the formation of an actual Scottish Labour Party? Wonder how this will go down with his London masters? Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...
Purcell, who has been tipped as a future leader of Labour at Holyrood, has contradicted Alexander on the constitution by backing a debate on more powers for Holyrood and independence. He said: "Post-devolution Scotland will always have a debate about the Parliament, about the future and yes, it may possibly include independence. It is legitimate that it is part of the debate.
"There are two aspects; those who favour independence and there is always a consensus among other people that we should review the Parliament's powers and what powers it may have. The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."
Are we witnessing the first teeny steps towards the formation of an actual Scottish Labour Party? Wonder how this will go down with his London masters? Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:07am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Future thinker[/bold] wrote:
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.[/quote] Good post and well written.
Future thinker wrote:
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.
Good post and well written.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:09am Sun 20 Apr 08
nostress, grangemouth on 1:04am today wrote:
[quote]Are we witnessing the first teeny steps towards the formation of an actual Scottish Labour Party?[/quote]
I sincerely hope so.
nostress, grangemouth on 1:04am today wrote:
Are we witnessing the first teeny steps towards the formation of an actual Scottish Labour Party?
I sincerely hope so.
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 1:20am Sun 20 Apr 08
Well at least he's been open about it and hasn't hidden behind the usual "an un-named Labour source" drivel when challenging Alexander. Have to give him that. More than her backstabbers at Holyrood have done up so far.
Well at least he's been open about it and hasn't hidden behind the usual "an un-named Labour source" drivel when challenging Alexander. Have to give him that. More than her backstabbers at Holyrood have done up so far.
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 1:22am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Future thinker[/bold] wrote:
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.[/quote] Future, ah but hang on, he's also a Council Leader, a Glasgow Council Leader. And they are as fly as a bag of monkeys! : )
Future thinker wrote:
Steven Purcell is a bright light in a very dark Scottish Labour Land. His insight, openess and ability to grasp the mood of the Scottish people is commendable. Pragmatic and bold he is an example to all in Scottish Labour that their is hope. We live in very interesting times, the complexion of Scotland has changed; Scottish Labour must now follow the light.
Future, ah but hang on, he's also a Council Leader, a Glasgow Council Leader. And they are as fly as a bag of monkeys! : )
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 1:28am Sun 20 Apr 08
Hmmmmmm, his biography says he was born in 1972 and joined the Labour Party in 1986?
It also says that in a later life he helped deliver £220 million in PPP for the refurbishment of Glasgow's schools.
Hmmmmmm, his biography says he was born in 1972 and joined the Labour Party in 1986?
It also says that in a later life he helped deliver £220 million in PPP for the refurbishment of Glasgow's schools.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:30am Sun 20 Apr 08
Well, at least on Labour loyalist can read the writing on the wall.
Well, at least on Labour loyalist can read the writing on the wall.
Posted by: CWB on 1:32am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Jwil[/bold] wrote:
[italic]He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation...[/italic] I don't understand this comment. Purcell doesn't have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it. [/quote] Jwil most Labour folk in Glasgow think Glasgow IS Scotland and IS the Labour Party in Scotland.
Jwil wrote:
He said his party would take part in the Commission and the National Conversation... I don't understand this comment. Purcell doesn't have the authority to direct the Labour party to take part in the National conversation even although he might wish for it.
Jwil most Labour folk in Glasgow think Glasgow IS Scotland and IS the Labour Party in Scotland.
Posted by: Steve A on 1:53am Sun 20 Apr 08
Looks like Purcell looked up and saw the train coming!Question is will he choose the right platform?He must know labour will need new leadership in an independent Scotland and my guess is he is one of many in the labour ranks that see the career advancement opportunities therein!
Looks like Purcell looked up and saw the train coming!Question is will he choose the right platform?He must know labour will need new leadership in an independent Scotland and my guess is he is one of many in the labour ranks that see the career advancement opportunities therein!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:13am Sun 20 Apr 08
purcell[quote]The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."[/quote] Help mah Boab, michty me - that's [bold]US![/bold] Ahm fair humbled.
Ah better pit a crease in mah best jeans and a parting in mah hair if ahm tae be seen in poublic making horrendously important decisions, such as, who' tae govern Scotland. personally, ah hiv a sof' spot fir Sydney Devine.
purcell
The people who will take the final view are the people of Scotland."
Help mah Boab, michty me - that's
US! Ahm fair humbled.
Ah better pit a crease in mah best jeans and a parting in mah hair if ahm tae be seen in poublic making horrendously important decisions, such as, who' tae govern Scotland. personally, ah hiv a sof' spot fir Sydney Devine.
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols, on 2:45am Sun 20 Apr 08
cynical me, i think this has been released in wendy's full knowledge. this is a test to see if the waverers might be brought back into line if the promise to at least discuss the bleeding obvious is made. its timing at the time of the snp conference is no accident either.
a lot of the new support for snp recently, its new 10% pro independence, is soft and pliable, open to being manipulated to another position.
there is a feeling, which may be correct, that whilst the majority of scots really do not want full independence, in a choice between brown and salmond on who would do more for them/us there is no contest.
it could not be worse than this mob who took everyone to war and screwed the economy up big time.
and devolution max with fiscal powers is to the layman like independence in all but name. keep the british enbassies, keep the british army but let us have more of the oil money for scotland rather than to pay northern rock.
if an opinion poll asked scots, do you think the 11 billion a year or whatever sent to london last year in revenues for central use, should have been spent on northern rock or on fixing scottish schools and hospitals, i think 99%, certainly 90%, would have come back with an answer that the labour party in london would not agree with!
cynical me, i think this has been released in wendy's full knowledge. this is a test to see if the waverers might be brought back into line if the promise to at least discuss the bleeding obvious is made. its timing at the time of the snp conference is no accident either.
a lot of the new support for snp recently, its new 10% pro independence, is soft and pliable, open to being manipulated to another position.
there is a feeling, which may be correct, that whilst the majority of scots really do not want full independence, in a choice between brown and salmond on who would do more for them/us there is no contest.
it could not be worse than this mob who took everyone to war and screwed the economy up big time.
and devolution max with fiscal powers is to the layman like independence in all but name. keep the british enbassies, keep the british army but let us have more of the oil money for scotland rather than to pay northern rock.
if an opinion poll asked scots, do you think the 11 billion a year or whatever sent to london last year in revenues for central use, should have been spent on northern rock or on fixing scottish schools and hospitals, i think 99%, certainly 90%, would have come back with an answer that the labour party in london would not agree with!
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 2:59am Sun 20 Apr 08
The STUC has also "urged to widen debate on independence"
see tinyurl.com/4qrp95
One by one the left appears to moving towards
the possibility of Independence as a viable option for
our country, and we can hope to see a set of new types
of forward looking leaders emerging which
will contrast with the current
Labour sycophants and Unionist apologists.
Looks like Wendy "10 out of 10" Alexander's
'independent' commission is a lame duck
before it even starts. Given recent polls at
41% favouring Independence
Sir Kenneth "23% is Irrelevant" Calman appears to
have become pretty irrelevant already.
'Scottish' Labour is out of touch and on a path to
extinction. I look forward to seeing Labour reinvent
itself as a true left leaning party which can operate
effectively in a post-independence Scotland.
The STUC has also "urged to widen debate on independence"
see tinyurl.com/4qrp95
One by one the left appears to moving towards
the possibility of Independence as a viable option for
our country, and we can hope to see a set of new types
of forward looking leaders emerging which
will contrast with the current
Labour sycophants and Unionist apologists.
Looks like Wendy "10 out of 10" Alexander's
'independent' commission is a lame duck
before it even starts. Given recent polls at
41% favouring Independence
Sir Kenneth "23% is Irrelevant" Calman appears to
have become pretty irrelevant already.
'Scottish' Labour is out of touch and on a path to
extinction. I look forward to seeing Labour reinvent
itself as a true left leaning party which can operate
effectively in a post-independence Scotland.
Posted by: Cynicus on 3:29am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]ptdoug[/bold] wrote:
Purcell is the future of Labour in Scotland. A new breed. A future (post independence) First Minister of Scotland.
As an SNP supporter I have been impressed with Purcell and wish to see him go from strength to strength.... and perhaps one day lead a true and independent Scottish Labour Party in an independent Scotland.
There are good, talented people, like Purcell, in Scottish Labour. But they have been disgracefuly led and tarnished by the actions of the incompetent, corrupt, careerist cabal of trough guzzling Westminster lackeys that have all but destroyed Labours credibility in Scotland.
Purcell could just be the guy that the \"good guys\" (and there are many) in the Labour movement in Scotland could rally around to reclaim the Scottish Labour Party from the New Labour Bliarite bandits that hi-jacked it.[/quote] What a load of sh1te!
PURCELL the FUTURE? He is a clapped -out Blair protege in a Jockshire outpost trying desperately to re-invent himself.
Purcell was the champion of the ludicrous super casinos failure on which his city spent megabucks on the most lavish of all bisd -only to have it laughed out of contention.
Purcell is a mate and close buddy of Stefan King, whose bizarre Botanic Gardens night-club idea would have got nowhere without Purcell's patronage.
Purcell's claque are in the van, trying to drive through the barbaric Go_ape scheme in Pollok Park. It too is doomed. The Scottish Government is certain to kill it off-and quite right too.
This arch-mediocrity, who has never done a proper job in his life or achieved anything of significance inside or outside politics, is doing a bit of positioning. But it is no good. Even if he got into Holyrood tomorrow , there is not enough time for him to make his mark and establish himself as a credible successor to Wee Wendy.
ptdoug wrote:
Purcell is the future of Labour in Scotland. A new breed. A future (post independence) First Minister of Scotland.
As an SNP supporter I have been impressed with Purcell and wish to see him go from strength to strength.... and perhaps one day lead a true and independent Scottish Labour Party in an independent Scotland.
There are good, talented people, like Purcell, in Scottish Labour. But they have been disgracefuly led and tarnished by the actions of the incompetent, corrupt, careerist cabal of trough guzzling Westminster lackeys that have all but destroyed Labours credibility in Scotland.
Purcell could just be the guy that the \"good guys\" (and there are many) in the Labour movement in Scotland could rally around to reclaim the Scottish Labour Party from the New Labour Bliarite bandits that hi-jacked it.
What a load of sh1te!
PURCELL the FUTURE? He is a clapped -out Blair protege in a Jockshire outpost trying desperately to re-invent himself.
Purcell was the champion of the ludicrous super casinos failure on which his city spent megabucks on the most lavish of all bisd -only to have it laughed out of contention.
Purcell is a mate and close buddy of Stefan King, whose bizarre Botanic Gardens night-club idea would have got nowhere without Purcell's patronage.
Purcell's claque are in the van, trying to drive through the barbaric Go_ape scheme in Pollok Park. It too is doomed. The Scottish Government is certain to kill it off-and quite right too.
This arch-mediocrity, who has never done a proper job in his life or achieved anything of significance inside or outside politics, is doing a bit of positioning. But it is no good. Even if he got into Holyrood tomorrow , there is not enough time for him to make his mark and establish himself as a credible successor to Wee Wendy.
Posted by: Doctor William Warfield on 3:57am Sun 20 Apr 08
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.
Posted by: ptdoug, EK on 4:40am Sun 20 Apr 08
And so the Labour Lanarkshire mafia attacks on Purcell begin.(Cynicus)
Now that Purcell has broke cover and is openly challenging the ruling Labour clique... the assualts on his personality and integrity will start. Have started (see above).
It will be a concerted and sustained assualt drawing on Labours unmatched gutter political skills and tactics. Name calling, smears, sneering and lies... all directed by the scum section of Scottish Labour... in Steven Purcells general direction.
But then what the hey.... thats what Labour does best.
And so the Labour Lanarkshire mafia attacks on Purcell begin.(Cynicus)
Now that Purcell has broke cover and is openly challenging the ruling Labour clique... the assualts on his personality and integrity will start. Have started (see above).
It will be a concerted and sustained assualt drawing on Labours unmatched gutter political skills and tactics. Name calling, smears, sneering and lies... all directed by the scum section of Scottish Labour... in Steven Purcells general direction.
But then what the hey.... thats what Labour does best.
Posted by: ptdoug, EK on 4:45am Sun 20 Apr 08
JOE CALZAGHE...... No1.
Well done Joe.
JOE CALZAGHE...... No1.
Well done Joe.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:37am Sun 20 Apr 08
It's simple/There will be no need for an SNP in a settled Independent Scotland and like any other Independent nation will have it's different parties.
It's simple/There will be no need for an SNP in a settled Independent Scotland and like any other Independent nation will have it's different parties.
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 7:10am Sun 20 Apr 08
Purcell didn't get where he is today - head of Scotlands biggest and most corrupt Labour Council - by being a nice guy.
I reckon he is clever enough to realize the bulk of his political life is in front of him and he wants to be in one of the lifeboats rather than playing in the band.
This is a shot in the arm for the National Conversation, and makes Wendy and her North Lanarkshire Mafia look even more like Brezhnevs Politburo.
Purcell didn't get where he is today - head of Scotlands biggest and most corrupt Labour Council - by being a nice guy.
I reckon he is clever enough to realize the bulk of his political life is in front of him and he wants to be in one of the lifeboats rather than playing in the band.
This is a shot in the arm for the National Conversation, and makes Wendy and her North Lanarkshire Mafia look even more like Brezhnevs Politburo.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:22am Sun 20 Apr 08
The Hootsman "fact" said in the foundation of the modern SNP amalgamation of the different elements that they agreed upon "Dominion Status".
Dominion Status was a unifying tactic, such as Canada, Australia, NZ, etc, to gain maximum support and unity. Irish Nationalists used this tactic at first. There was right wing elements in the 1934 founding SNP, under Alexander Dewar Gibb, from Cathcart and Glasgow University, but were overshadowed by Republican Socialists, such as Hugh MacDiarmind, Oliver Brown, Douglas Young, etc. RB Cunninghame Graham and Dr Clarke, and other founder members of the original Scottish Labour Party, before it was taken over and neutered by London. Graham and Clarke were Chair and Secy of the Old Scottish :labour Party
The Hootsman "fact" said in the foundation of the modern SNP amalgamation of the different elements that they agreed upon "Dominion Status".
Dominion Status was a unifying tactic, such as Canada, Australia, NZ, etc, to gain maximum support and unity. Irish Nationalists used this tactic at first. There was right wing elements in the 1934 founding SNP, under Alexander Dewar Gibb, from Cathcart and Glasgow University, but were overshadowed by Republican Socialists, such as Hugh MacDiarmind, Oliver Brown, Douglas Young, etc. RB Cunninghame Graham and Dr Clarke, and other founder members of the original Scottish Labour Party, before it was taken over and neutered by London. Graham and Clarke were Chair and Secy of the Old Scottish :labour Party
Posted by: Oscar on 8:41am Sun 20 Apr 08
Clever move, can't expect the 'fully inclusive' west-o-scoatlan Labour party fully endorsing his sexual preference in a fight for party leader. Didn't he only come out after being elected council leader?
[quote]personally, ah hiv a sof' spot fir Sydney Devine.
[/quote]
LA, nobody furks with the Kidney.
Clever move, can't expect the 'fully inclusive' west-o-scoatlan Labour party fully endorsing his sexual preference in a fight for party leader. Didn't he only come out after being elected council leader?
personally, ah hiv a sof' spot fir Sydney Devine.
LA, nobody furks with the Kidney.
Posted by: ronan, Glasgow on 8:43am Sun 20 Apr 08
Sadly I agree with Cynicus here. Are we not in danger of seeing Purcell as some kind of Albert Speer character here(the good Nazi that actually wasnt) I think many in the SNP, like myself ,would relish a new, more constructive forward thinking Labour Party - but after 9 months of ridiculous slander and confrontation from those benches we should be cautious about treating Purcells remarks as anything other than a bit of posturing and self-aggrandizements
. Cyncicus is also right in saying that Purcell has presided over some disastrous planning decisions in Glasgow in recent times - perhaps he really isn't that far away from the image of the corrupt glad- handling, west of scotland, politician that he is trying to distance himself from.
Sadly I agree with Cynicus here. Are we not in danger of seeing Purcell as some kind of Albert Speer character here(the good Nazi that actually wasnt) I think many in the SNP, like myself ,would relish a new, more constructive forward thinking Labour Party - but after 9 months of ridiculous slander and confrontation from those benches we should be cautious about treating Purcells remarks as anything other than a bit of posturing and self-aggrandizements
. Cyncicus is also right in saying that Purcell has presided over some disastrous planning decisions in Glasgow in recent times - perhaps he really isn't that far away from the image of the corrupt glad- handling, west of scotland, politician that he is trying to distance himself from.
Posted by: Dont swallow this guff, United Kingdom on 8:54am Sun 20 Apr 08
Purcell doing the self presevation crap.
I wouldnt trust this selfseeking labour parasite one inch.
He is a typical coniving liebour clone, never had a real job, never will.
Even if this clown gets voted out he will go straight to a job with culture and sport which he helped to set up along with wee jokes missus .
Dont be taken in by his total mince.
Purcell doing the self presevation crap.
I wouldnt trust this selfseeking labour parasite one inch.
He is a typical coniving liebour clone, never had a real job, never will.
Even if this clown gets voted out he will go straight to a job with culture and sport which he helped to set up along with wee jokes missus .
Dont be taken in by his total mince.
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 9:20am Sun 20 Apr 08
Oscar, you're bang on. Purcell pretended to be straight - even going so far as to get married - to be elected. It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'.
Still this just means Purcell is a liar and a cheat - excellent Labour leadership material.
Oscar, you're bang on. Purcell pretended to be straight - even going so far as to get married - to be elected. It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'.
Still this just means Purcell is a liar and a cheat - excellent Labour leadership material.
Posted by: rab, United Kingdom on 9:32am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Curley Bill[/bold] wrote:
Oscar, you're bang on. Purcell pretended to be straight - even going so far as to get married - to be elected. It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'. Still this just means Purcell is a liar and a cheat - excellent Labour leadership material.[/quote] Spot on.
He ponced about saying he was a happily married man when fishing for votes and as soon as he won , it was bye bye missus Im moving in with my boyfreind.
Not to be trusted like the rest of the labour
mob.
Curley Bill wrote:
Oscar, you're bang on. Purcell pretended to be straight - even going so far as to get married - to be elected. It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'. Still this just means Purcell is a liar and a cheat - excellent Labour leadership material.
Spot on.
He ponced about saying he was a happily married man when fishing for votes and as soon as he won , it was bye bye missus Im moving in with my boyfreind.
Not to be trusted like the rest of the labour
mob.
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 9:37am Sun 20 Apr 08
So some of nulabour are finally thinking what the rest of us are thinking.
Welcome to Scotland and the 21st century.
PS Don't bring Wendy.
So some of nulabour are finally thinking what the rest of us are thinking.
Welcome to Scotland and the 21st century.
PS Don't bring Wendy.
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 9:51am Sun 20 Apr 08
Curley Bill - "It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'."
Firstly, Bill, Glaswegians are not Troglodytes. They are, for the most part, good, honest hard-working people, who would rather challenge you to a singing contest than a fight. They have been woefully neglected by those they have, until recently, put their trust in, however there are clear signs that even the working-class in Glasgow have had enough and are switching to the SNP.
We are ALL Scots, if we do not have that belief, we are not a Nation. If you accept that then you should ask yourself why you are so negative toward your own people.
Secondly, having come out, I have noted no persecution, overt or covert, toward Purcell from the Glasgow "Troglodytes".
Curley Bill - "It might be okay for London Labour to embrace homosexuals but no way would the troglodytes in Glasgow accept someone they didn't consider 'normal'."
Firstly, Bill, Glaswegians are not Troglodytes. They are, for the most part, good, honest hard-working people, who would rather challenge you to a singing contest than a fight. They have been woefully neglected by those they have, until recently, put their trust in, however there are clear signs that even the working-class in Glasgow have had enough and are switching to the SNP.
We are ALL Scots, if we do not have that belief, we are not a Nation. If you accept that then you should ask yourself why you are so negative toward your own people.
Secondly, having come out, I have noted no persecution, overt or covert, toward Purcell from the Glasgow "Troglodytes".
Posted by: Cynicus on 9:53am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Doctor William Warfield[/bold] wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.[/quote] And do you believe in fairies too?
Doctor William Warfield wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.
And do you believe in fairies too?
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:55am Sun 20 Apr 08
The leaders of the Scottish Unionist parties,
including the True Blue Tories, are well
aware that within their ranks are numerous crypto-Nationalists who like Purcell are simply opportunists positioning themselves in the event that the SNP resurgence cannot be stopped!
IF the SNP should ever win a mandate to declare Independence then this disparate political party will in all probability revert to indigenous Labour, Tory and Lib-Dem political party groupings? Purcell is only
looking to his future! Labour will not disappear should Scotland ever become a separate State.
Young pragmatic Scots Unionists like Purcell know only too well that unless the running sore of Independence is stopped in its tracks within his lifetime then there can only be one inevitable constitutional outcome!
The leaders of the Scottish Unionist parties,
including the True Blue Tories, are well
aware that within their ranks are numerous crypto-Nationalists who like Purcell are simply opportunists positioning themselves in the event that the SNP resurgence cannot be stopped!
IF the SNP should ever win a mandate to declare Independence then this disparate political party will in all probability revert to indigenous Labour, Tory and Lib-Dem political party groupings? Purcell is only
looking to his future! Labour will not disappear should Scotland ever become a separate State.
Young pragmatic Scots Unionists like Purcell know only too well that unless the running sore of Independence is stopped in its tracks within his lifetime then there can only be one inevitable constitutional outcome!
Posted by: Future Thinker, Central Scotland on 10:04am Sun 20 Apr 08
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.
Posted by: Cynicus on 10:06am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote]And so the Labour Lanarkshire mafia attacks on Purcell begin.(Cynicus)[/quote]-ptdoug, EK on 4:40am today
It gets better and better. Now that I am exposed, for those who missed recent comments, I can reveal also that I am:
"a Tory", "George Foulkes" (or Lord FOO as I prefer), "an uber -Catholic", "a Royal Arch mason of the 33rd degree", "an MI6 agent" among other things.
Some of Purcell's gay fan-mail here is hilarious. I relish, particularly, the contributions from members of the species [italic]Homo CyberNatus[/italic. Not so much facing two ways as bending and stabbingat the same time.
And so the Labour Lanarkshire mafia attacks on Purcell begin.(Cynicus)
-ptdoug, EK on 4:40am today
It gets better and better. Now that I am exposed, for those who missed recent comments, I can reveal also that I am:
"a Tory", "George Foulkes" (or Lord FOO as I prefer), "an uber -Catholic", "a Royal Arch mason of the 33rd degree", "an MI6 agent" among other things.
Some of Purcell's gay fan-mail here is hilarious. I relish, particularly, the contributions from members of the species Homo CyberNatus[/italic. Not so much facing two ways as bending and stabbingat the same time.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 10:16am Sun 20 Apr 08
[bold]Nostress[/bold] @ 1:04 am says,
[quote]Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...[/quote]You should of said HOURS because [bold]Cynicus[/bold] @ 3:29 am has set the ball rolling!
Nostress @ 1:04 am says,
Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...
You should of said HOURS because
Cynicus @ 3:29 am has set the ball rolling!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:16am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote]I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.[/quote]That Labour loyalists would break rank sooner or later was always on the cards, and even if there is an element of self-preservation in the volte face we see here, (with more to come) we should categorise it as [italic]enlightened[/italic] self-interest.
A genuinely Scottish Labour party with no affiliations to Westminster other than a society of goodwill is the next step, and the only one that has the potential of dislodging SNP rule, assuming it can devise policies fit for Scotland in the 21st century.
I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.
That Labour loyalists would break rank sooner or later was always on the cards, and even if there is an element of self-preservation in the volte face we see here, (with more to come) we should categorise it as
enlightened self-interest.
A genuinely Scottish Labour party with no affiliations to Westminster other than a society of goodwill is the next step, and the only one that has the potential of dislodging SNP rule, assuming it can devise policies fit for Scotland in the 21st century.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:21am Sun 20 Apr 08
Boys , boys , boys!
I had no idea that Mr Purcell was a homosexual until now, nor did I need or want to know!
That is his business.
On the occasions I have heard him speak ,he impressed.
Boys , boys , boys!
I had no idea that Mr Purcell was a homosexual until now, nor did I need or want to know!
That is his business.
On the occasions I have heard him speak ,he impressed.
Posted by: wee barra, Glasgow on 10:26am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Future Thinker[/bold] wrote:
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.[/quote] Ha,ha,ha,.
Purcell couldn't have put it better himself.
FT spews forth.
"his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery".
Ha, ha, ha.
You must be having a laugh.
Future Thinker wrote:
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.
Ha,ha,ha,.
Purcell couldn't have put it better himself.
FT spews forth.
"his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery".
Ha, ha, ha.
You must be having a laugh.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 10:30am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Duns Scotus[/bold] wrote:
[bold]Nostress[/bold] @ 1:04 am says, [quote]Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...[/quote]You should of said HOURS because [bold]Cynicus[/bold] @ 3:29 am has set the ball rolling! [/quote] For "should of" read "should have".
Two things need gripping hear. Firstly Purcell's sexual preference is irrelevant in this context. Secondly, [bold]Cynicus[/bold] has hit the nail on the head about Purcell's political behaviour. Study what happened at the old Post Office building in George Square and what could have happened at the Botanic Gardens and what certainly shouldn't happen in Pollok Park and you will have an insight to Purcell's political path.
If someone you've despised for years suddenly offers you a poke of dolly mixtures, do you immediately say, "[italic]Oh thanks, yer no a bad lad really[/italic] ." Or do you suspect something's afoot.
Ca canny, but ca awa!
Duns Scotus wrote:
Nostress @ 1:04 am says, Watch out for a few negative stories coming out about Purcell's lifestyle in the coming weeks...
You should of said HOURS because Cynicus @ 3:29 am has set the ball rolling!
For "should of" read "should have".
Two things need gripping hear. Firstly Purcell's sexual preference is irrelevant in this context. Secondly,
Cynicus has hit the nail on the head about Purcell's political behaviour. Study what happened at the old Post Office building in George Square and what could have happened at the Botanic Gardens and what certainly shouldn't happen in Pollok Park and you will have an insight to Purcell's political path.
If someone you've despised for years suddenly offers you a poke of dolly mixtures, do you immediately say, "
Oh thanks, yer no a bad lad really ." Or do you suspect something's afoot.
Ca canny, but ca awa!
Posted by: Doctor William Warfield on 11:12am Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Cynicus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Doctor William Warfield[/bold] wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.[/quote] And do you believe in fairies too?[/quote] Well Cynicus. Stephen Purcell is a labour fairy.
Cynicus wrote:
Doctor William Warfield wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.
And do you believe in fairies too?
Well Cynicus. Stephen Purcell is a labour fairy.
Posted by: Soren Kierkegaard on 11:17am Sun 20 Apr 08
Another shameful post by Duns Scrotom. Dragging the independence movement into the mud, which I have toiled and sweated blood, for over 30 years for. Thanks a bunch Dump.
Another shameful post by Duns Scrotom. Dragging the independence movement into the mud, which I have toiled and sweated blood, for over 30 years for. Thanks a bunch Dump.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:18am Sun 20 Apr 08
Well said Soren.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:23am Sun 20 Apr 08
Soiled Keeckinpants[quote]Another shameful post[/quote]You said it.
I like your style of trolling - mild reproach that more often than not obscures its message; not full blown, blood dripping incisor contempt for Scotland. Neat.
Soiled Keeckinpants
Another shameful post
You said it.
I like your style of trolling - mild reproach that more often than not obscures its message; not full blown, blood dripping incisor contempt for Scotland. Neat.
Posted by: morningside rabbi, ediburgh on 11:25am Sun 20 Apr 08
pass m the Vasaline and the poppers Stevie
laddie oink oink oink
pass m the Vasaline and the poppers Stevie
laddie oink oink oink
Posted by: Professor Hertz Van Rental on 11:31am Sun 20 Apr 08
Me thinks our friend Duns Scotus has a forum stalker - this soren chap follows him from thread to thread. A bit creepy actually.
Me thinks our friend Duns Scotus has a forum stalker - this soren chap follows him from thread to thread. A bit creepy actually.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:42am Sun 20 Apr 08
Professor [quote]Our friend Duns Scotus has a forum stal[/quote]Looks like it. Stalkers are idiots - every time they hound a particular individual they lose out on posting message. They seem never to have heard about drawing sniper fire!
Professor
Our friend Duns Scotus has a forum stal
Looks like it. Stalkers are idiots - every time they hound a particular individual they lose out on posting message. They seem never to have heard about drawing sniper fire!
Posted by: Andrew BOD, Aberdeen on 11:49am Sun 20 Apr 08
Simple survival tactic by Purcell...
Putting himself in touch with the staunch Glasgow Labour legions, who must be talking about how the 'Independence' party have delivered in spades during their time in Government.
As someone said earlier, re-alignment may turn back the 'softest' SNP converts when it comes to the crunch.
The really important thing however, is that this re-alignment and the new position of the STUC, begins to change politics in Scotland forever. There is no longer a 'safety net' in Scotland for Labour. Another political force has PROVED that it can deliver social democratic change in our country. There' no turning back now.
Simple survival tactic by Purcell...
Putting himself in touch with the staunch Glasgow Labour legions, who must be talking about how the 'Independence' party have delivered in spades during their time in Government.
As someone said earlier, re-alignment may turn back the 'softest' SNP converts when it comes to the crunch.
The really important thing however, is that this re-alignment and the new position of the STUC, begins to change politics in Scotland forever. There is no longer a 'safety net' in Scotland for Labour. Another political force has PROVED that it can deliver social democratic change in our country. There' no turning back now.
Posted by: Soren Kierkegaard on 11:56am Sun 20 Apr 08
No Professor Hertz van Mercedes Benz
Ive been in the SNP since Winnie Ewing was in nappies. Ive worked tirelessly for our blessed country, Scotland. A noble land of mountains, lochs and glens, where men are men and women know their place. All this good work and the fate of Scotland's destiny as a independent nation is being jeopardized by the outrageous insulting comments of Duns Scrotum posted on the herald website.
What happens if a floating voter aimslessly wanders onto the herald forum and reads Duns Scrotums ranting diatribes. He will be put off voting SNP for life and he will probably join the Trappist order of monks in a monastery somewhere remote in France or Italy. He's a labour troll, nothing more, nothing less and puts the independence movement which I have strived for, toiled and sweated blood for into the gutter.
No Professor Hertz van Mercedes Benz
Ive been in the SNP since Winnie Ewing was in nappies. Ive worked tirelessly for our blessed country, Scotland. A noble land of mountains, lochs and glens, where men are men and women know their place. All this good work and the fate of Scotland's destiny as a independent nation is being jeopardized by the outrageous insulting comments of Duns Scrotum posted on the herald website.
What happens if a floating voter aimslessly wanders onto the herald forum and reads Duns Scrotums ranting diatribes. He will be put off voting SNP for life and he will probably join the Trappist order of monks in a monastery somewhere remote in France or Italy. He's a labour troll, nothing more, nothing less and puts the independence movement which I have strived for, toiled and sweated blood for into the gutter.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:04pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Soiled Keechinpants[quote]Ive been in the SNP since Winnie Ewing was in nappies.[/quote]
Oh, no you've not!
Oh, yes I have!
Oh no, you've not!
Pantomime season finished last March but not for smart***** trolls. Well, not so smart; this one is the same one as last week, but this week has hit upon the unoriginal line of quiet resistence:
Soiled Keechinpants[quote]Thank goodness there are civil, thoughful SNP members like me who are discreet in the way we chide confederates who [bold]BRING DOWN INDEPENDENCE WITH THEIR CALLS TO BLOODY EXTREMISM[/bold] - oops. Sorry. I got carried away. Sssh! You know what I mean. [/quote]
Soiled Keechinpants
Ive been in the SNP since Winnie Ewing was in nappies.
Oh, no you've not!
Oh, yes I have!
Oh no, you've not!
Pantomime season finished last March but not for smart***** trolls. Well, not so smart; this one is the same one as last week, but this week has hit upon the unoriginal line of quiet resistence:
Soiled Keechinpants
Thank goodness there are civil, thoughful SNP members like me who are discreet in the way we chide confederates who BRING DOWN INDEPENDENCE WITH THEIR CALLS TO BLOODY EXTREMISM - oops. Sorry. I got carried away. Sssh! You know what I mean.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:05pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Ah don't care if Purcell is good, bad or indifferent. He is labour and he's supporting a referendum. That alone is worthy of praise.
Ah don't care if Purcell is good, bad or indifferent. He is labour and he's supporting a referendum. That alone is worthy of praise.
Posted by: Soren Kierkegaard on 12:15pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Scunnert
Here's a quotation from the Johnny Sherbet big book of quotations
The sun goes up
The sun goes down
The tide goes out
The tide comes in
Tall men walk tall
Short men walk short
So they must be midgets
Very profound quote from Johnny Sherbet.
Scunnert
Here's a quotation from the Johnny Sherbet big book of quotations
The sun goes up
The sun goes down
The tide goes out
The tide comes in
Tall men walk tall
Short men walk short
So they must be midgets
Very profound quote from Johnny Sherbet.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:24pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Soren,
“We were all so trained to obey orders without even thinking that the thought of disobeying an order would never have occurred to anybody.”
Rudolf Hess
Apparently Purcell wasn't properly indoctrinated.
Soren,
“We were all so trained to obey orders without even thinking that the thought of disobeying an order would never have occurred to anybody.”
Rudolf Hess
Apparently Purcell wasn't properly indoctrinated.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:26pm Sun 20 Apr 08
"Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?"
Joseph Stalin
Education, education, education! But who are the teachers?
"Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?"
Joseph Stalin
Education, education, education! But who are the teachers?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:28pm Sun 20 Apr 08
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
Joseph Stalin
Dougie Alexander?
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
Joseph Stalin
Dougie Alexander?
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 12:36pm Sun 20 Apr 08
See the mail on sunday,
Des browne is having a breakdown with the pressure, keep going SNP he won't be the only one
See the mail on sunday,
Des browne is having a breakdown with the pressure, keep going SNP he won't be the only one
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Labour......where? on 12:37pm Sun 20 Apr 08
I think we are seeing the beginning of the end for Wendy as the Greater Glasgow Labour Party turns against her.
Purcell was one of the few who had a go at Wendy at the Labour in Scotland executive meeting in Glasgow. He knows that he is going to be dumped off the gravy train unless Labour engage in the real politik that is now happening in Scotland.
This rat is looking to jump to a new ship.
I think we are seeing the beginning of the end for Wendy as the Greater Glasgow Labour Party turns against her.
Purcell was one of the few who had a go at Wendy at the Labour in Scotland executive meeting in Glasgow. He knows that he is going to be dumped off the gravy train unless Labour engage in the real politik that is now happening in Scotland.
This rat is looking to jump to a new ship.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:40pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Thanks for that pehman.
[quote]Senior defence industry figures suggested the pressure on Mr Browne had led to him suffering from mental exhaustion and that he was ready to resign his tough dual roles of Defence and Scottish Secretary.[/quote]
http://www.mailonsun
day.co.uk/pages/live
/articles/news/news.
html?in_article_id=5
60786&in_page_id=177
0
Thanks for that pehman.
Senior defence industry figures suggested the pressure on Mr Browne had led to him suffering from mental exhaustion and that he was ready to resign his tough dual roles of Defence and Scottish Secretary.
http://www.mailonsun
day.co.uk/pages/live
/articles/news/news.
html?in_article_id=5
60786&in_page_id=177
0
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:42pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Also from the MoS:
[quote]A St George's Day parade through an inner-city area hit by race riots has been cancelled following police advice.
Community groups had planned to stage the multi-cultural event in Bradford and 1,500 schoolchildren were due to take part.
Many of the youngsters had already made flags of St George to carry on the parade on April 23, which was designed to boost community cohesion.[/quote]
Also from the MoS:
A St George's Day parade through an inner-city area hit by race riots has been cancelled following police advice.
Community groups had planned to stage the multi-cultural event in Bradford and 1,500 schoolchildren were due to take part.
Many of the youngsters had already made flags of St George to carry on the parade on April 23, which was designed to boost community cohesion.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 1:03pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Scunnert,
I fail to see what the problem would be with a multi cultural event around St George ?
He's a St in Muslim culture also, though I'm sorry I can't recall his title
Scunnert,
I fail to see what the problem would be with a multi cultural event around St George ?
He's a St in Muslim culture also, though I'm sorry I can't recall his title
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 1:07pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Future Thinker[/bold] wrote:
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.[/quote] Future I think you're comments are most unfair. Purcell is hardly the new guy on the block and Cynicus named a few of his projects earlier for us. Purcell also brought £220 million worth of PPP for the re-building of schools. You know PPP Future? That source of capital which really means the people will still be paying for it in thirty years time? Purcell is also part of the "future-thinking" Glasgow City Council which is so future thinking that it is happy to keep building more car parks in Glasgow in order to make more money out of people and leave public transport at a standstill, literally.
Future Thinker wrote:
I find many of the remarks on this comment section encouraging, unfortunately a great many also indicate how far we have still to go in our thinking. In my earlier post I congratulated Steven Purcell for being pragmatic and bold. There is no doubt he is tainted by the actions of New Labour; however he has been a breath of fresh air in Glasgow. Lest we forget what Glasgow city council was like pre- Steven Purcell, yes there is a way to go but he is moving in the right direction. To discuss his sexuality in these columns says more about the commentators than Mr Purcell. Whether many of you like it or not his record continues to demonstrate a man of conviction, and bravery, Scottish Labour are fortunate he is amongst them. And before I am lambasted, for the record, I am non partisan, I believe that Scotland should determine its own destiny and it will require able politicians from all sides to ensure that happens.
Future I think you're comments are most unfair. Purcell is hardly the new guy on the block and Cynicus named a few of his projects earlier for us. Purcell also brought £220 million worth of PPP for the re-building of schools. You know PPP Future? That source of capital which really means the people will still be paying for it in thirty years time? Purcell is also part of the "future-thinking" Glasgow City Council which is so future thinking that it is happy to keep building more car parks in Glasgow in order to make more money out of people and leave public transport at a standstill, literally.
Posted by: Soreen Kockguard on 1:28pm Sun 20 Apr 08
I've been a nationalist since Simon Bolivar took his first dump, since dinosaurs roamed the volcanic floes of Bannockburn, since Margo McDonald spurned my youthful advances of a knee trembler on the monkey bars in the PE class.
[italic]Sigh, I wish I had hair like Des Browne's.[/italic]
I've been a nationalist since Simon Bolivar took his first dump, since dinosaurs roamed the volcanic floes of Bannockburn, since Margo McDonald spurned my youthful advances of a knee trembler on the monkey bars in the PE class.
Sigh, I wish I had hair like Des Browne's.
Posted by: Cynicus on 1:34pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Doctor William Warfield[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Cynicus[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Doctor William Warfield[/bold] wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.[/quote] And do you believe in fairies too?[/quote] Well Cynicus. Stephen Purcell is a labour fairy.[/quote] A disgraceful attack on an up right member of the Gay Community. I am shocked, sir.
You are awarded, however, a Cynicus Rosette for wit. Be prepared for the wiseacres saying it should be half a rosette.
Doctor William Warfield wrote:
Cynicus wrote:
Doctor William Warfield wrote:
Cynicus. I thought you were labour or are you a dirty rat leaving the sinking ship.
And do you believe in fairies too?
Well Cynicus. Stephen Purcell is a labour fairy.
A disgraceful attack on an up right member of the Gay Community. I am shocked, sir.
You are awarded, however, a Cynicus Rosette for wit. Be prepared for the wiseacres saying it should be half a rosette.
Posted by: Red Etin on 1:36pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Discussing breakup of the UK, senior Labour figure said "We can't rule owt".
Discussing breakup of the UK, senior Labour figure said "We can't rule owt".
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:39pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Soreen Kockguard[/bold] wrote:
I've been a nationalist since Simon Bolivar took his first dump, since dinosaurs roamed the volcanic floes of Bannockburn, since Margo McDonald spurned my youthful advances of a knee trembler on the monkey bars in the PE class.
[italic]Sigh, I wish I had hair like Des Browne's.[/italic]
[/quote] LoL Soreen -
Soreen Kockguard wrote:
I've been a nationalist since Simon Bolivar took his first dump, since dinosaurs roamed the volcanic floes of Bannockburn, since Margo McDonald spurned my youthful advances of a knee trembler on the monkey bars in the PE class.
Sigh, I wish I had hair like Des Browne's.
LoL Soreen -
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:41pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[quote][bold]pehman[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert,
I fail to see what the problem would be with a multi cultural event around St George ?
He's a St in Muslim culture also, though I'm sorry I can't recall his title
[/quote] I don't understand it mahsel pehman - just shows ye whit a mess thuv made.
pehman wrote:
Scunnert,
I fail to see what the problem would be with a multi cultural event around St George ?
He's a St in Muslim culture also, though I'm sorry I can't recall his title
I don't understand it mahsel pehman - just shows ye whit a mess thuv made.
Posted by: Soren Kierkegaard on 1:57pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Scunnert
Sooreen Scotchtape is Duns Spotus slagging off our fair and noble land, Scotland and dragging it through a puddle. Aye that'll be him.
Scunnert
Sooreen Scotchtape is Duns Spotus slagging off our fair and noble land, Scotland and dragging it through a puddle. Aye that'll be him.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 2:06pm Sun 20 Apr 08
It has mair the flavour ae LA Wullie.
It has mair the flavour ae LA Wullie.
Posted by: Soreen Kockhard on 2:12pm Sun 20 Apr 08
How dare you, Soren? I am no other than Soreen Kockhard of Scotland, smiter of unionist dobbers, friend of the weak and needy, defender of a the wantonless and slack. You sir are no RLS.
How dare you, Soren? I am no other than Soreen Kockhard of Scotland, smiter of unionist dobbers, friend of the weak and needy, defender of a the wantonless and slack. You sir are no RLS.
Posted by: Proud To Be Scottish, Glasgow on 2:22pm Sun 20 Apr 08
What a lot of noise over nothing.
Stephen Purcell is entitled to his opinion - which is that all options should be considered. After due consideration,should take 10 - 15 minutes, we can then get on with the serious business of running Britain. If only the SNP exececutive showed the same gusto in making our local Scottish decisions as continuosly bleating on about what the English have done we would all be a better situation.
Blips aside, let us not forget that opinion polls have consistently shown support for Independence to be around 23% or so. The people of Scotland have no appetite for seperation so after briefly considering this option it would be irresponsible not to concentrate on the constitutional preferences of the other 80%.
Given that only 16% of people voted for the SNP last May it has to be recognised that in reality, when push comes to shove, in a real vote, (not in Tesco's carpark) only 1 in 8 people want Independence to be even discussed. 1 in 8 - hardly a groundswell.
The views of a few nat-nuts shouldn't fog the big picture.
Get on with running the Executive, try not to get your knickers in a twist.
What a lot of noise over nothing.
Stephen Purcell is entitled to his opinion - which is that all options should be considered. After due consideration,should take 10 - 15 minutes, we can then get on with the serious business of running Britain. If only the SNP exececutive showed the same gusto in making our local Scottish decisions as continuosly bleating on about what the English have done we would all be a better situation.
Blips aside, let us not forget that opinion polls have consistently shown support for Independence to be around 23% or so. The people of Scotland have no appetite for seperation so after briefly considering this option it would be irresponsible not to concentrate on the constitutional preferences of the other 80%.
Given that only 16% of people voted for the SNP last May it has to be recognised that in reality, when push comes to shove, in a real vote, (not in Tesco's carpark) only 1 in 8 people want Independence to be even discussed. 1 in 8 - hardly a groundswell.
The views of a few nat-nuts shouldn't fog the big picture.
Get on with running the Executive, try not to get your knickers in a twist.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 2:30pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Ptb? writes:
[quote]Aw Naw! Noo it's aw fawin apairt bit Ah dinnae want tae ken soze Ah'll jist write the same pish as eiwiz![/quote]
Ptb? writes:
Aw Naw! Noo it's aw fawin apairt bit Ah dinnae want tae ken soze Ah'll jist write the same pish as eiwiz!
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 2:33pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Lovely post PtbS
Reminds me of a Jewish guy i went to school with trying to get 50 quid from his father for a school trip to Edinburgh zoo.
"40 pounds" exclaimed his father..."what do you want 30 pounds for?...here's 20 give 10 to your sister"
feel free to substitute 'jewish' for Yorkshire or Aberdonian or Scottish where applicable
Lovely post PtbS
Reminds me of a Jewish guy i went to school with trying to get 50 quid from his father for a school trip to Edinburgh zoo.
"40 pounds" exclaimed his father..."what do you want 30 pounds for?...here's 20 give 10 to your sister"
feel free to substitute 'jewish' for Yorkshire or Aberdonian or Scottish where applicable
Posted by: Proudtobeascatologis
t on 2:34pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Sometimes I like nothing better than retreating to my special darkened cupboard with a little brown friend and squishing it between my fingers.
Then I go and play on mum-mums computator and write silly things about Scotchland, which I hear is very pretty and has ladies with front bottoms.
My friend Soren does the same thing as me, but he can make manfat come out of his wibbly little pink tube. One day I'll do that to. One day.
Sometimes I like nothing better than retreating to my special darkened cupboard with a little brown friend and squishing it between my fingers.
Then I go and play on mum-mums computator and write silly things about Scotchland, which I hear is very pretty and has ladies with front bottoms.
My friend Soren does the same thing as me, but he can make manfat come out of his wibbly little pink tube. One day I'll do that to. One day.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 2:38pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Proud to be a Priapist says;
[quote]Look at me - I'm a bogeyman - aaaaghrrrr![/quote]
And no - that's not a banana in his pocket.
Proud to be a Priapist says;
Look at me - I'm a bogeyman - aaaaghrrrr!
And no - that's not a banana in his pocket.
Posted by: I'm no really here on 3:05pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Proud To Be Scottish, Glasgow on 2:22pm
Reminds me of the last referendum where Westminster used stats to kill the vote. "Only 16% voted for the SNP?" Perhaps only 16% of the whole, theoretical electorate, but it was a good deal more that that regarding the people who actually voted, or like 1976, do you regard the people that don't vote as "No" votes. [quote]let us not forget that opinion polls have consistently shown support for Independence to be around 23%[/quote] Using that logic, why hold elections? The West of Scotland is a Labour stronghold, so lets just have Labour MP's from Glasgow? Things change, people change, nations change,
"Should Scotland become an Independent Nation - Yes or No" and if less than 66% of the entire, theoretical electoral register answers "NO", then We go Independent. How about that, Proud to be Labour"?
Proud To Be Scottish, Glasgow on 2:22pm
Reminds me of the last referendum where Westminster used stats to kill the vote. "Only 16% voted for the SNP?" Perhaps only 16% of the whole, theoretical electorate, but it was a good deal more that that regarding the people who actually voted, or like 1976, do you regard the people that don't vote as "No" votes.
let us not forget that opinion polls have consistently shown support for Independence to be around 23%
Using that logic, why hold elections? The West of Scotland is a Labour stronghold, so lets just have Labour MP's from Glasgow? Things change, people change, nations change,
"Should Scotland become an Independent Nation - Yes or No" and if less than 66% of the entire, theoretical electoral register answers "NO", then We go Independent. How about that, Proud to be Labour"?
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 4:27pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[bold]I'm no really here[/bold] asks, "[italic]Using that logic, why hold elections?[/italic] "
The PtbS stance is part of the "[italic]settled will of the people[/italic] " nonsense.
[bold]PtbS[/bold] should remember that a majority of people wanted Victoria as Queen - she died.
I'm no really here asks, "
Using that logic, why hold elections? "
The PtbS stance is part of the "
settled will of the people " nonsense.
PtbS should remember that a majority of people wanted Victoria as Queen - she died.
Posted by: Geoff, South Africa on 4:45pm Sun 20 Apr 08
The time for coyness is over. Scottish and UK politicians need to grasp the nettle and address the Independence debate head on. Of course Independence has to be one of the options on the table-not only for Scotland but for the other constituents of the United Kingdom. The post devolution political setup of the UK is a dreadful mess that simply no longer does the job-the current position is not viable or more to the point, will play to the increasing advantage of Nationalists on both sides of the border. As a Unionist I see the way forward to be a federal UK with 4 equal Parliaments retaining Westminster as a true assembly for the UNION and not as it stands now-an adhoc British/English house. Unionists including those in Scottish Labour should not fear such a strategy-the current confrontational duck and dive game will not win the day agin the SNP. Unionists need to articulate a positive case for the federal Union as a win-win situation for all the people of the UK
The time for coyness is over. Scottish and UK politicians need to grasp the nettle and address the Independence debate head on. Of course Independence has to be one of the options on the table-not only for Scotland but for the other constituents of the United Kingdom. The post devolution political setup of the UK is a dreadful mess that simply no longer does the job-the current position is not viable or more to the point, will play to the increasing advantage of Nationalists on both sides of the border. As a Unionist I see the way forward to be a federal UK with 4 equal Parliaments retaining Westminster as a true assembly for the UNION and not as it stands now-an adhoc British/English house. Unionists including those in Scottish Labour should not fear such a strategy-the current confrontational duck and dive game will not win the day agin the SNP. Unionists need to articulate a positive case for the federal Union as a win-win situation for all the people of the UK
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 4:56pm Sun 20 Apr 08
PtbS: "Get on with running the Executive, try not to get your knickers in a twist."
Is this proof that PtbS is Wendy in disguise (which wouldn't be such a bad idea!). My understanding is that we have a Scottish [bold]Government[/bold] , not an Executive.
PtbS: "Get on with running the Executive, try not to get your knickers in a twist."
Is this proof that PtbS is Wendy in disguise (which wouldn't be such a bad idea!). My understanding is that we have a Scottish
Government , not an Executive.
Posted by: Proud To Be A Fukwit, John Smith House on 5:26pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Vote Lieboor,
Screw the poor!
Bribes R us!
Vote Lieboor!
Support the rich!
Screw the poor!
Vote Lieboor!
Keep Scotland back!
Vote Lieboor!
Vote Lieboor,
Screw the poor!
Bribes R us!
Vote Lieboor!
Support the rich!
Screw the poor!
Vote Lieboor!
Keep Scotland back!
Vote Lieboor!
Posted by: Curley Bill, the SW on 5:41pm Sun 20 Apr 08
[bold]Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 9:51am today[/bold]
[quote]Firstly, Bill, Glaswegians are not Troglodytes. They are, for the most part, good, honest hard-working people, who would rather challenge you to a singing contest than a fight. They have been woefully neglected by those they have, until recently, put their trust in, however there are clear signs that even the working-class in Glasgow have had enough and are switching to the SNP. We are ALL Scots, if we do not have that belief, we are not a Nation. If you accept that then you should ask yourself why you are so negative toward your own people. Secondly, having come out, I have noted no persecution, overt or covert, toward Purcell from the Glasgow "Troglodytes".[/quote]
My apologies, West. My comment was poorly phrased - I did not mean all Glaswegians, only those in the Labour Party charged with the selection of candidates.
Also, you will find no homophobia here - sexual preference is a personal thing. However, deliberate concealment of said preference in a bid to further one's career is abhorrent. Whatever happened to [bold]G[/bold] ood [bold]A[/bold] s [bold]Y[/bold] ou?
Duns Scotus, you say
[quote]Firstly Purcell's sexual preference is irrelevant in this context.[/quote]
That's as may be, but - again - the hiding of it is the offence, and shows Purcell to be anything but a man of conviction.
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 9:51am today
Firstly, Bill, Glaswegians are not Troglodytes. They are, for the most part, good, honest hard-working people, who would rather challenge you to a singing contest than a fight. They have been woefully neglected by those they have, until recently, put their trust in, however there are clear signs that even the working-class in Glasgow have had enough and are switching to the SNP. We are ALL Scots, if we do not have that belief, we are not a Nation. If you accept that then you should ask yourself why you are so
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