Down & out As the Tories celebrate, Labour hits panic stations. Can Gordon Brown rally the party or is he truly a lame duck?By James Cusick LABOUR'S 350-STRONG PARLIAMENTARY PARTY will return to the Commons tomorrow, but it won't be their usual Monday morning. Amid the serial calls for unity that have
inevitably followed the party's massacre in last week's local elections in England and Wales, and the tipping-point victory of Boris Johnson in the London mayoral contest, many will be asking themselves: how bad does it have to get? More fully: how bad does it have to get before Brown is asked to go, offers to go, or is forced to go?
Which camp MPs fall into may define the potential civil war that Labour may endure over the remaining two years of Gordon Brown's premiership. For some of the party's most senior and experienced advisers, the panic after the worst showing in the polls for 40 years is a useless exercise. "Panic adds nothing. It's a way of believing you can act, when you can't act," said one aide. "What happened? Well, none of it is very complex. People are feeling the pinch on food, fuel. But global prices are out of our control. And there's our electoral cycle. People are now looking at the Tories and asking if they are fit to be the government, because the Conservatives are no longer toxic."
Others are less convinced and are asking a different range of questions with a far more serious list of options to consider. One London-based government minister described himself as "shell-shocked" after the electoral drubbing - which saw Labour fall into third place in the overall share of the national vote, one percentage point behind the Liberal Democrats (who took 24%), and a massive 24 percentage points behind David Cameron's rejuvenated Conservatives. He said he and many of his
colleagues were in a "quandary". Admitting that no-one this weekend, or for months to come, will know the correct answers, the question remained about whether it was wise to change leaders now or wait.
He said: "If we have a new leader now, some believe it could mean we will lose the next election by a smaller amount than will happen under Gordon. Others predict a change of leader would fracture the party and we'd lose by more. And there are others still who believe that if get rid of Gordon now we could win the next election. Which is the correct option? Nobody knows."
For another MP, who accepts the leadership debate, however silent, has arrived and won't go away, there will be "no point in changing leaders if our policies remain the same." This advice, however, came with a political caveat and a warning to those on the left of the Parliamentary Labour Party who believe the pressure on Brown can bring about a return of old Labour values and old Labour solutions: "The type of social democracy that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown brought in with new Labour is with us to stay. A change of leader will not bring about a new political philosophy inside the Labour Party."
Despite there being no political calculator that can precisely turn local election results into general election seats, doom merchants inside the Labour Party were doing just these sums by Friday morning and predicting a Tory landslide in 2010 just marginally short of the 1997 majority of 179 won by Tony Blair. A handful of Cabinet members and more than 100 Labour MPs across the UK would lose their seats if the Tory momentum that saw Labour lose councillors and councils in territory once regarded as Labour strongholds, were repeated in a general election.
The victory of Boris Johnson as mayor of London, was for one former minister a triumph too far. "What was the name of the old man in the Magic Roundabout who used to cycle about the place? Mr McKendrick? Well, Boris Johnson as London's mayor is like Mr McKendrick winning the Tour de France. It shouldn't happen, but it f***ing has happened. So what are we going to do, dismiss it as mid-term blues, stick our collective heads in the sand and pray the Tories self-destruct? That's a long two years in the sand."
The comment was directed at Jack Straw, the justice secretary, who told the BBC
yesterday that Labour could still win the next general election, adding: "They wanted to punish him Gordon Brown or punish us in respect of the 10p tax band."
Straw maintained that campaigning on doorsteps over the past month had left him understanding why people were angry with the government. "There's no question that the 10p tax has affected some people people are upset that a government which cared and continues to care very much about the low paid should be doing this. We're
putting this right."
As part of the internal inquest over what happened in the May 1 polls and the urgent need to tell departing Labour voters that they will be listened to from now on, senior Cabinet figures were dispatched over the weekend to offer what one aide called a "listening and learning message".
After television appearances by Chief Secretary to the Treasury,Yvette Cooper, one of her fellow MPs described the performance as "a woeful script full of hesitant, repetitive stammering that contained only one message - we haven't a damn clue what the hell is happening to us'."
Others, even at ministerial level, aren't convinced the "listening" strategy is enough unless quick action follows. One said: "Will we listen to fears about increased immigration and be honest? We say the abolition of the 10p tax rate was a mistake, but will we put it back? We won't." Brown as a "listening prime minister" was also dismissed by another MP "as unlikely" because "Gordon's had a decade as chancellor and plenty of years in opposition. He does things his way. We get used to it, or we don't. The problem isn't just Gordon, it's the substance of what this government stands for."
Brown will attempt to address the substance issue in a policy offensive that is expected to start within a week. A draft outline of this year's Queen's Speech will be trailed in the hope that it will show the government still has ideas that are electorally attractive, vote-winning and innovative even after 11 years in power.
The focus will be on financial assistance for first-time homebuyers and other measures designed to aid those on low- and middle-ranking pay levels. One Labour insider said: "We made similar mistakes between 1990 and 1992. We forgot about aspiration. We can't afford to do so again."
What Brown and many senior ministers want most to do is to make it clear that Brown is the leader of the Labour Party, that his position is "unassailable". One senior aide said: "There is a new team in Number 10 under Stephen Carter. There will a raft of new policies that Gordon, for the first time, has fully shaped himself. And for those asking the question, does he have it in him to fight back?' the answer is yes, because Gordon Brown is not a sprinter, but a marathon runner. The panic should stop."
Except it won't. Some MPs back the assertion made by the left-wing MP Ian Gibson, that Brown has between now and the party's annual conference in Manchester in the autumn to demonstrate he can reverse the image that he is a lame duck PM.
One Blairite MP who has managed to thrive in Brown's premiership believes the party may yet find a self-survival instinct to dislodge Brown as PM.
"Gordon Brown has a sense of history unlike any other MP. He may yet be persuaded to go, if only not to repeat the failure of Jim Callaghan in 1979. I think Gordon Brown would rather be remembered as one of the great chancellors, rather than as a losing prime minister. He will know that if he loses, that will be the end of his leadership. He will also understand that if he stood aside, whoever took his place could lose and still be given more time. It would be a two-term job at least."
How bad does it all have to get? One Scottish MP, who said he wasn't looking forward to going back to Westminster tonight, said that was the wrong question. It should be: "It can't get worse than this, can it?"
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Posted by: doonhamer on 11:58pm Sat 3 May 08
[bold]YES IT CAN.. AND IT WILL![/bold]
YES IT CAN.. AND IT WILL! Posted by: joe miles, greenock on 1:17am Sun 4 May 08
I wonder if the MP in question is the rev Cairns, if so he should be worried.
I wonder if the MP in question is the rev Cairns, if so he should be worried.
Posted by: troll, pomona on 1:21am Sun 4 May 08
Their porblem is that they now care more about their own skins, than about the people they 'serve'.
Add in the fact that the labour party has lost its soul, it is then not to difficult to see the problem.
Their porblem is that they now care more about their own skins, than about the people they 'serve'.
Add in the fact that the labour party has lost its soul, it is then not to difficult to see the problem.
Posted by: Joe Middleton, Edinburgh on 2:03am Sun 4 May 08
Why bother saving a party which has lost it's motivation and no longer represents the people it's supposed to?
Brown is not exclusively to blame, Labour are unpopular because they are no different from the Tories. As such, why not go for the originals if Labour are'nt saying anything different?
As they are not interested in Scotland they don't deserve to get elected here and given they don't have much interest in England or Wales either it's no shock if they get thumped there as well.
Why bother saving a party which has lost it's motivation and no longer represents the people it's supposed to?
Brown is not exclusively to blame, Labour are unpopular because they are no different from the Tories. As such, why not go for the originals if Labour are'nt saying anything different?
As they are not interested in Scotland they don't deserve to get elected here and given they don't have much interest in England or Wales either it's no shock if they get thumped there as well.
Posted by: Margaret, Edinburgh on 3:58am Sun 4 May 08
Is Maggie Broon the same person as the Gordon Brown that craven and slavish Scottish meeja folk have mythologised these last 15-20 years as the genius intellect, great leader and world-class statesman? Him and lately his wee Bendy Wendy of that Ilk?
Totally overrated both of them, but Scottish Labour so say no more, the press obediently lines up to lionise them......
Is Maggie Broon the same person as the Gordon Brown that craven and slavish Scottish meeja folk have mythologised these last 15-20 years as the genius intellect, great leader and world-class statesman? Him and lately his wee Bendy Wendy of that Ilk?
Totally overrated both of them, but Scottish Labour so say no more, the press obediently lines up to lionise them......
Posted by: R MacLeod, Glasgow on 6:40am Sun 4 May 08
When they lost the Scottish Elections last year we heard the dame crap ...
we will listen
lessons will be learned
we will reconnect with our core vote ...
and what happenend nothing !!! absolutely nothing , the same tired old scremongering the same lies and cheating , the same trying to put the fear of god into everyone in Scotland to get them to vote Labour .
No reinvention ,no new policies ,no listening just negativity and more negativity.
So why should we believe this latest load of tosh , maybe because it happenned in England .
that isexactly what happened with@ the Poll tax lots of hand wringing in Scotland by Labour placemen but nothing of substance , BANG as soon as it hit England the riots began and change was in the air.
go figure!!!
When they lost the Scottish Elections last year we heard the dame crap ...
we will listen
lessons will be learned
we will reconnect with our core vote ...
and what happenend nothing !!! absolutely nothing , the same tired old scremongering the same lies and cheating , the same trying to put the fear of god into everyone in Scotland to get them to vote Labour .
No reinvention ,no new policies ,no listening just negativity and more negativity.
So why should we believe this latest load of tosh , maybe because it happenned in England .
that isexactly what happened with@ the Poll tax lots of hand wringing in Scotland by Labour placemen but nothing of substance , BANG as soon as it hit England the riots began and change was in the air.
go figure!!!
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 9:10am Sun 4 May 08
These people are supposed to be protecting the interests of their constituents, running the country and contributing usefully to world affairs. We pay them extremely well for doing this.
All of their efforts are going into saving the New Labour experiment and safeguarding their own lucrative sinecures.
What on earth is the point of Westminster nowadays?
Set my people free!
Now!
These people are supposed to be protecting the interests of their constituents, running the country and contributing usefully to world affairs. We pay them extremely well for doing this.
All of their efforts are going into saving the New Labour experiment and safeguarding their own lucrative sinecures.
What on earth is the point of Westminster nowadays?
Set my people free!
Now!
Posted by: lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 9:48am Sun 4 May 08
Labour will lose the next election but as the article suggests, by how much?
When labour first came to power in 1997 they had a series of strategies with Tony & Gordon doing no wrong, because they stuck to their strategies and controlled the economy reasonablly well. But like most honourable intentions they paved the road to hell and Labour are now guddling about in a rough sea without oars and the pursers mate as captain.
Labour need to totally reform themselves and come up with sensible policies for the 21st Century. Get rid of the spin, posturing and bulls**t.
Labour will lose the next election but as the article suggests, by how much?
When labour first came to power in 1997 they had a series of strategies with Tony & Gordon doing no wrong, because they stuck to their strategies and controlled the economy reasonablly well. But like most honourable intentions they paved the road to hell and Labour are now guddling about in a rough sea without oars and the pursers mate as captain.
Labour need to totally reform themselves and come up with sensible policies for the 21st Century. Get rid of the spin, posturing and bulls**t.
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 10:11am Sun 4 May 08
[bold]Straw maintained that campaigning on doorsteps over the past month had left him understanding why people were angry with the government. "There's no question that the 10p tax has affected some people people are upset that a government which cared and continues to care very much about the low paid should be doing this. We're putting this right."[/bold]
Another falsehood. They are only looking to redress the loss of income of pensioners and young single workers, which is roughly 10% of the total affected by the doubling of the 10p tax rate.
They show no concern about the other 90% who will lose out.
[bold]After television appearances by Chief Secretary to the Treasury,Yvette Cooper, one of her fellow MPs described the performance as "a woeful script full of hesitant, repetitive stammering that contained only one message - we haven't a **** clue what the hell is happening to us'."[/bold]
Sums it up perfectly I would say. Yvette Cooper and her husband Ed Balls are typical of New Labur politicians who [bold]DO NOT LISTEN[/bold] and show complete contempt for the people they represent. Arrogance beyond belief!
Labour's real problem is they do not have anyone left within their ranks of political stature who could take control and re-asssure the electorate. This was the price of New Labour.
Straw maintained that campaigning on doorsteps over the past month had left him understanding why people were angry with the government. "There's no question that the 10p tax has affected some people people are upset that a government which cared and continues to care very much about the low paid should be doing this. We're putting this right."
Another falsehood. They are only looking to redress the loss of income of pensioners and young single workers, which is roughly 10% of the total affected by the doubling of the 10p tax rate.
They show no concern about the other 90% who will lose out.
After television appearances by Chief Secretary to the Treasury,Yvette Cooper, one of her fellow MPs described the performance as "a woeful script full of hesitant, repetitive stammering that contained only one message - we haven't a **** clue what the hell is happening to us'."
Sums it up perfectly I would say. Yvette Cooper and her husband Ed Balls are typical of New Labur politicians who
DO NOT LISTEN and show complete contempt for the people they represent. Arrogance beyond belief!
Labour's real problem is they do not have anyone left within their ranks of political stature who could take control and re-asssure the electorate. This was the price of New Labour.
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 11:36am Sun 4 May 08
I have just watched Broon on Sky TV, he was doing his "it was a big boy that did it and ran away" defense.
There is nothing wrong with his policies and it is all down to inflation in Asia and the American sub prime market.
On the 10p tax, he said I did not scrub the 10p tax, I introduced a 20p tax rate, and that most people would be better off!
Pressed about the losers all he did was evade the question.
Still all in all yet another great day for the SNP. Its time.
I have just watched Broon on Sky TV, he was doing his "it was a big boy that did it and ran away" defense.
There is nothing wrong with his policies and it is all down to inflation in Asia and the American sub prime market.
On the 10p tax, he said I did not scrub the 10p tax, I introduced a 20p tax rate, and that most people would be better off!
Pressed about the losers all he did was evade the question.
Still all in all yet another great day for the SNP. Its time.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:39am Sun 4 May 08
[quote]How bad does it all have to get? One Scottish MP, who said he wasn't looking forward to going back to Westminster tonight, said that was the wrong question. It should be: "It can't get worse than this, can it?"[/quote]
No matter how bad things are, they can always get worse. The best thing labour could do is get rid of alexander and brown, course i hope they don't and things just keep getting worse for them. Only problem is the fact that because of this local election GB will wait til the last minute to have an election, which mean another 2 years of taxes hitting the poor. I for one am not looking forward to the new car tax coming into effect.
How bad does it all have to get? One Scottish MP, who said he wasn't looking forward to going back to Westminster tonight, said that was the wrong question. It should be: "It can't get worse than this, can it?"
No matter how bad things are, they can always get worse. The best thing labour could do is get rid of alexander and brown, course i hope they don't and things just keep getting worse for them. Only problem is the fact that because of this local election GB will wait til the last minute to have an election, which mean another 2 years of taxes hitting the poor. I for one am not looking forward to the new car tax coming into effect.
Posted by: robert, United Kingdom on 1:18pm Sun 4 May 08
Just watched the cretin and self con fest crook Wendy Alexander on politics now, as usual she shouted over the presenter, refused to answer questions and sunk into an anti SNP rant. I don't know why producers bother inviting her on as they must know by know that she is an ignorant self seeking buffoon who's mouth is out of control.
For the continued demise of the labour party ,Wendy please stay.LOL.
Just watched the cretin and self con fest crook Wendy Alexander on politics now, as usual she shouted over the presenter, refused to answer questions and sunk into an anti SNP rant. I don't know why producers bother inviting her on as they must know by know that she is an ignorant self seeking buffoon who's mouth is out of control.
For the continued demise of the labour party ,Wendy please stay.LOL.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 1:34pm Sun 4 May 08
I know why they invite her on and ask her easy questions Robert.
They want another anti SNP rant!
They also put our FM on before her so that he is not given the opportunity to refute her argument and tear her to shreds for her usual scaremongering!
I know why they invite her on and ask her easy questions Robert.
They want another anti SNP rant!
They also put our FM on before her so that he is not given the opportunity to refute her argument and tear her to shreds for her usual scaremongering!
Posted by: DougtheDug on 1:41pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote]...said one aide. "What happened? Well, none of it is very complex. People are feeling the pinch on food, fuel. But global prices are out of our control. And there's our electoral cycle. People are now looking at the Tories and asking if they are fit to be the government, because the Conservatives are no longer toxic."[/quote]
Aye, it's all the fault of outside forces. Nothing to do with PFI on public works as a method to siphon off cash to corporate business and keep the debt off the books, nothing to do with a disastrous war in Iraq that's left that country in ruins, nothing to do with an endless war in Afghanistan to help the US secure a foothold in the energy rich Caspian Basin, nothing to do with house price inflation of insane proportions, nothing to do with bailing out failed private banks based in Labour supporting areas, nothing to do with "clever" tax scams to dish the Tories where they failed to work out who was going to lose and who was going to gain.
They must all be getting their cue from Broon, [bold]"It wisnae me!"[/bold]
...said one aide. "What happened? Well, none of it is very complex. People are feeling the pinch on food, fuel. But global prices are out of our control. And there's our electoral cycle. People are now looking at the Tories and asking if they are fit to be the government, because the Conservatives are no longer toxic."
Aye, it's all the fault of outside forces. Nothing to do with PFI on public works as a method to siphon off cash to corporate business and keep the debt off the books, nothing to do with a disastrous war in Iraq that's left that country in ruins, nothing to do with an endless war in Afghanistan to help the US secure a foothold in the energy rich Caspian Basin, nothing to do with house price inflation of insane proportions, nothing to do with bailing out failed private banks based in Labour supporting areas, nothing to do with "clever" tax scams to dish the Tories where they failed to work out who was going to lose and who was going to gain.
They must all be getting their cue from Broon,
"It wisnae me!" Posted by: Monty Furk, The Magic Roundabout on 1:49pm Sun 4 May 08
Maggie Broon says "I feel their pain".
Well Maggs, we feel [italic]your[/italic] pain and it's making us [bold]LAUGH LIKE HYENAS!!!![/bold]
Yeeha, meltdown never felt so good.
Maggie Broon says "I feel their pain".
Well Maggs, we feel
your pain and it's making us
LAUGH LIKE HYENAS!!!!
Yeeha, meltdown never felt so good.
Posted by: Clarinda on 2:15pm Sun 4 May 08
I recommend reading the piece by Bill Marshall-Andrews in the Sunday Telegraph comment section - in the certain knowledge that the Labour bozos wouldn't recognise good sense even from one of their own.
How daft do they think the English and Welsh electorate are to vote for the Conservatives just because of the Labour 10p tax gaffe - Mr Brown ought to ponder To A Louse - the last verse in particular.
I recommend reading the piece by Bill Marshall-Andrews in the Sunday Telegraph comment section - in the certain knowledge that the Labour bozos wouldn't recognise good sense even from one of their own.
How daft do they think the English and Welsh electorate are to vote for the Conservatives just because of the Labour 10p tax gaffe - Mr Brown ought to ponder To A Louse - the last verse in particular.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 2:16pm Sun 4 May 08
yeah was nice to see wendy '10 out of 10' alexander talking about how much slabs vote is increasing since they gained what was it 1% in the by election. Course she failed to mention they in the other by election the snp vote increased by 15% and labour didn't even figure at all. Must be nice living in wendy land eh? Looking at the world n very rose tinted labour glasses.
I also found it amusing glen referring to her as leader of labour in holyrood (which she is and not scottish labour leader hehe).
yeah was nice to see wendy '10 out of 10' alexander talking about how much slabs vote is increasing since they gained what was it 1% in the by election. Course she failed to mention they in the other by election the snp vote increased by 15% and labour didn't even figure at all. Must be nice living in wendy land eh? Looking at the world n very rose tinted labour glasses.
I also found it amusing glen referring to her as leader of labour in holyrood (which she is and not scottish labour leader hehe).
Posted by: Jock on 3:10pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote]Is Maggie Broon the same person as the Gordon Brown that craven and slavish Scottish meeja folk have mythologised these last 15-20 years as the genius intellect, great leader and world-class statesman? Him and lately his wee Bendy Wendy of that Ilk?[/quote]
Ha ha!
Yes both Gordon and Wendy are similar in that respect.
I for one have never believed wee Wendykins is this political giant with her 'massive intellect', I never seen anything to justify that claim, I just saw the Labour establishments preferred candidate.
Ditto for Buggins Brown, I don't doubt he is a man of rare intelligence, but that does not make him a suitable Prime Minister. He is psychologically flawed and what fools his party have been not to have stamped out his delusions a lot earlier. Instead they gave [italic]de facto[/italic] credence to his fantasies that he should be Prime Minister and that he was cheated out of his rightful inheritance by nasty Peter Mandleson, AKA The Pronce of Darkness.
Aye wull they are paying fur it noo!
Is Maggie Broon the same person as the Gordon Brown that craven and slavish Scottish meeja folk have mythologised these last 15-20 years as the genius intellect, great leader and world-class statesman? Him and lately his wee Bendy Wendy of that Ilk?
Ha ha!
Yes both Gordon and Wendy are similar in that respect.
I for one have never believed wee Wendykins is this political giant with her 'massive intellect', I never seen anything to justify that claim, I just saw the Labour establishments preferred candidate.
Ditto for Buggins Brown, I don't doubt he is a man of rare intelligence, but that does not make him a suitable Prime Minister. He is psychologically flawed and what fools his party have been not to have stamped out his delusions a lot earlier. Instead they gave
de facto credence to his fantasies that he should be Prime Minister and that he was cheated out of his rightful inheritance by nasty Peter Mandleson, AKA The Pronce of Darkness.
Aye wull they are paying fur it noo!
Posted by: Jock on 3:22pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote]Peter Mandleson, AKA The Pronce of Darkness.[/quote]
Spot the typo!
Obviously I meant 'Prince of Darkness', but it is only a letter away from being 'Ponce of Darkness', just a mistype I assure you!
Peter Mandleson, AKA The Pronce of Darkness.
Spot the typo!
Obviously I meant 'Prince of Darkness', but it is only a letter away from being 'Ponce of Darkness', just a mistype I assure you!
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 3:40pm Sun 4 May 08
i think you were pretty close with the ponce of darkness
i think you were pretty close with the ponce of darkness
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 5:11pm Sun 4 May 08
The worst scenario for Brown is that it is not just his policies that are the problem but the man himself.
If that is the case there is nothing he can do to rectify his situation.
The worst scenario for Brown is that it is not just his policies that are the problem but the man himself.
If that is the case there is nothing he can do to rectify his situation.
Posted by: DougtheDug on 5:22pm Sun 4 May 08
Broon's response to the local elections in England is a version of the Emperor's new clothes except it's action and deeds we're talking about here. Not one to be seen.
What was the reason he chickened out of the election in the Autumn? So he could get time to show the country his "vision for change" and to develop his policies.
Six months down the line and one electoral kicking later and what's his response.
How's Broon and Labour going to recover?
"...by showing people we have a vision of the future that will carry the country - optimistically in my view - into its next phase."
The man's an empty barrel. Lots of sound but no content. Are the Labour party so stupid that they haven't worked out that he's got nothing in the ammunition locker at all apart from distress flares?
His vision mantra is a mental comfort blanket he uses to cover up the complete lack of policies and ideas whenever his leadership is questioned.
The warmongering, corporate loving, ID card promoting, British nationalist Labour Party deserve him.
Broon's response to the local elections in England is a version of the Emperor's new clothes except it's action and deeds we're talking about here. Not one to be seen.
What was the reason he chickened out of the election in the Autumn? So he could get time to show the country his "vision for change" and to develop his policies.
Six months down the line and one electoral kicking later and what's his response.
How's Broon and Labour going to recover?
"...by showing people we have a vision of the future that will carry the country - optimistically in my view - into its next phase."
The man's an empty barrel. Lots of sound but no content. Are the Labour party so stupid that they haven't worked out that he's got nothing in the ammunition locker at all apart from distress flares?
His vision mantra is a mental comfort blanket he uses to cover up the complete lack of policies and ideas whenever his leadership is questioned.
The warmongering, corporate loving, ID card promoting, British nationalist Labour Party deserve him.
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Bay of Bengal on 6:35pm Sun 4 May 08
Good old Nero Broon.
Can anyone advise me? Should schadenfreude be sipped and savoured or glugged down in a wanner?
Good old Nero Broon.
Can anyone advise me? Should schadenfreude be sipped and savoured or glugged down in a wanner?
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:39pm Sun 4 May 08
Couple this article with the Editorial. Then add in that your average labour activist has gone, left the party. Those that are left no longer believe the B/S message and niether do the public.
Also come the general election, labour are 20 million in debt now, so in two years time + the euro elections next year then ?
Also brown has made it known he only wants to serve one term, will voters elect him without knowing who his replacement is going to be ?
Labour and maggie brown = Dead mince walking
Couple this article with the Editorial. Then add in that your average labour activist has gone, left the party. Those that are left no longer believe the B/S message and niether do the public.
Also come the general election, labour are 20 million in debt now, so in two years time + the euro elections next year then ?
Also brown has made it known he only wants to serve one term, will voters elect him without knowing who his replacement is going to be ?
Labour and maggie brown = Dead mince walking
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:43pm Sun 4 May 08
Lowperdwog,
I thought you rubbed it in ?
Lowperdwog,
I thought you rubbed it in ?
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:45pm Sun 4 May 08
Lowperdwog,
I thought you rubbed it in ?
Lowperdwog,
I thought you rubbed it in ?
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Bay of Bengal on 7:00pm Sun 4 May 08
pehman
[quote]I thought you rubbed it in?[/quote]
Ho, ho!
pehman
I thought you rubbed it in?
Ho, ho!
Posted by: Jim, Irvine on 7:09pm Sun 4 May 08
The present NU Labour Party seems to exist on the poverty mentality of its supporters. The tax credits are an entrapment to vote Labour.
The disgracefull fact that Labour MPs and Msp
have some of the poorest people in Europe in their constintuences says it all.
The so called full employment is a mirage.Our
imports especially from China have an imbalance
that is a danger to our country.
Taxation has to be revised to give higher earners in the + £80,000 mark an increasing tax
factor. The Bonus elements in the Stock Market need a punitive tax. If thet wont to leave; so be it
The present NU Labour Party seems to exist on the poverty mentality of its supporters. The tax credits are an entrapment to vote Labour.
The disgracefull fact that Labour MPs and Msp
have some of the poorest people in Europe in their constintuences says it all.
The so called full employment is a mirage.Our
imports especially from China have an imbalance
that is a danger to our country.
Taxation has to be revised to give higher earners in the + £80,000 mark an increasing tax
factor. The Bonus elements in the Stock Market need a punitive tax. If thet wont to leave; so be it
Posted by: JohnM, Perth on 7:47pm Sun 4 May 08
Lowperdog
I think sipped and savoured for a while. Geezapint o' that schadenfreude!
Gives that light feeling of sinking the boot in to a numpty like Broon who's been doing it to us for a while.
Lowperdog
I think sipped and savoured for a while. Geezapint o' that schadenfreude!
Gives that light feeling of sinking the boot in to a numpty like Broon who's been doing it to us for a while.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:18am Mon 5 May 08
[quote]Also come the general election, labour are 20 million in debt now, so in two years time + the euro elections next year then ?[/quote]I've a sad feeling they're not really £20 million in debt.
At the Spring Conference, SNP members were treated to a detailed explanation of the fact that while the SNP is [italic]said[/italic] to be £1 million in debt, this is not in fact the case. The false headline figure is due to a very weird way of calculating total debt, which double and triple counts many items, and counts all overdraft facilities even if they are not drawn down. I think the real figure was about £118,000.
I turned to my friend and said, "Oh shucks, does that mean Labour don't really owe £20 million either?" "Guess so."
Also come the general election, labour are 20 million in debt now, so in two years time + the euro elections next year then ?
I've a sad feeling they're not really £20 million in debt.
At the Spring Conference, SNP members were treated to a detailed explanation of the fact that while the SNP is
said to be £1 million in debt, this is not in fact the case. The false headline figure is due to a very weird way of calculating total debt, which double and triple counts many items, and counts all overdraft facilities even if they are not drawn down. I think the real figure was about £118,000.
I turned to my friend and said, "Oh shucks, does that mean Labour don't really owe £20 million either?" "Guess so."
Posted by: Gordon Girvan, Los Angeles on 6:02am Mon 5 May 08
Labour Party are in SELF distruct mode, if they are walking upright and speaking coherently will never be accepted any more by the electorate, you know why? They LIE! NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE ONE THING THEY SAY TO US AGAIN.INDEPENDENCE is knocking at the door and the SCOTTISH PEOPLE welcoming it in with a vengence.
Labour Party are in SELF distruct mode, if they are walking upright and speaking coherently will never be accepted any more by the electorate, you know why? They LIE! NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE ONE THING THEY SAY TO US AGAIN.INDEPENDENCE is knocking at the door and the SCOTTISH PEOPLE welcoming it in with a vengence.
Posted by: Gordon Girvan, Los Angeles on 6:02am Mon 5 May 08
Labour Party are in SELF distruct mode, if they are walking upright and speaking coherently will never be accepted any more by the electorate, you know why? They LIE! NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE ONE THING THEY SAY TO US AGAIN.INDEPENDENCE is knocking at the door and the SCOTTISH PEOPLE welcoming it in with a vengence.
Labour Party are in SELF distruct mode, if they are walking upright and speaking coherently will never be accepted any more by the electorate, you know why? They LIE! NOBODY IS GOING TO BELIEVE ONE THING THEY SAY TO US AGAIN.INDEPENDENCE is knocking at the door and the SCOTTISH PEOPLE welcoming it in with a vengence.