MP voices Labour unrest over Brown By James Cusick
Westminster Editor GOVERNMENT MINISTERS and Labour backbenchers have already begun private discussions about a potential challenge to Gordon Brown's leadership of the Labour Party, according to the Manchester MP Graham Stringer.
With less than three weeks until the May 22 by-election in the Crewe and Nantwich seat, left vacant by the death of Gwyneth Dunwoody, Stringer is one of the first backbenchers to say openly what many in the Parliamentary Labour Party are saying behind closed doors.
Unless Brown offers relatively quick evidence of how Labour can recover from the drubbing in the May 1 local elections in England and Wales, where they came third behind the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats with just 24% of the overall vote, Stringer's claim that there is now "public loyalty but a private sense of despair" could change to a wider show of discontent.
A repeat of the national swings shown last week would mean Labour losing Crewe and Nantwich. Although Stringer said Labour had no tradition of what he called "regicide", he admitted the parliamentary noise against Brown was increasing in volume.
The prime minister will hope to begin offering his critics evidence of the promise to "listen and learn' when he gives a series of television interviews to be broadcast over the next few days.
Labour MPs, whose number could be reduced by 200 if last week's polls were repeated at the general election, will also want new promises from Brown that the 2008 local elections won't be a repeat of John Major's similar failure in 1995. Two years later, Major left Number 10 after Tony Blair's landslide victory.
Some in the party have said Brown has between now and the party conference in October to "prove himself".
The health minister, Ivan Lewis, said there was a danger Labour now looked like a "new elite". Lewis said it was not only Brown "who had to shape up", but "all of us at Westminster".
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Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 12:06am Sun 4 May 08
The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok'd by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn't they say "No, you can't do this." Let's throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on?
They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too.
The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok'd by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn't they say "No, you can't do this." Let's throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on?
They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 12:07am Sun 4 May 08
[quote]Although Stringer said Labour had no tradition of what he called "regicide", he admitted the parliamentary noise against Brown was increasing in volume.[/quote] They also had no tradition of "[bold]coronations[/bold] " but that is what happened with Gazza Broon becoming PM.
After their humiliation at the E & W polls, John McDonnell who challenged Brown for leadership explained that a leadership contest would have meant that the big issues could have been debated. Gordon of Cartoon feared a challenge so the doubling of the 10p tax rate was not considered and the rest is history.
[bold]Bean's on toast[/bold] .. next ... [bold]Endy Wwendy.[/bold]
Although Stringer said Labour had no tradition of what he called "regicide", he admitted the parliamentary noise against Brown was increasing in volume.
They also had no tradition of "
coronations " but that is what happened with Gazza Broon becoming PM.
After their humiliation at the E & W polls, John McDonnell who challenged Brown for leadership explained that a leadership contest would have meant that the big issues could have been debated. Gordon of Cartoon feared a challenge so the doubling of the 10p tax rate was not considered and the rest is history.
Bean's on toast .. next ...
Endy Wwendy. Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 12:10am Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Duns Scotus[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Although Stringer said Labour had no tradition of what he called "regicide", he admitted the parliamentary noise against Brown was increasing in volume.[/quote] They also had no tradition of "[bold]coronations[/bold] " but that is what happened with Gazza Broon becoming PM. After their humiliation at the E & W polls, John McDonnell who challenged Brown for leadership explained that a leadership contest would have meant that the big issues could have been debated. Gordon of Cartoon feared a challenge so the doubling of the 10p tax rate was not considered and the rest is history. [bold]Bean's on toast[/bold] .. next ... [bold]Endy Wwendy.[/bold] [/quote] Duns, don't go there with the 10p rate. Labour MPs ALL approved that decision last year in the Spring when Brown, as Chancellor, first announced it. I recall they actually cheered his Budget. Last year they didn't give a jot about it. They are only upset now because they are in big trouble at the moment and they want to make us think they care.
Duns Scotus wrote:
Although Stringer said Labour had no tradition of what he called "regicide", he admitted the parliamentary noise against Brown was increasing in volume.
They also had no tradition of "coronations " but that is what happened with Gazza Broon becoming PM. After their humiliation at the E & W polls, John McDonnell who challenged Brown for leadership explained that a leadership contest would have meant that the big issues could have been debated. Gordon of Cartoon feared a challenge so the doubling of the 10p tax rate was not considered and the rest is history. Bean's on toast .. next ... Endy Wwendy.
Duns, don't go there with the 10p rate. Labour MPs ALL approved that decision last year in the Spring when Brown, as Chancellor, first announced it. I recall they actually cheered his Budget. Last year they didn't give a jot about it. They are only upset now because they are in big trouble at the moment and they want to make us think they care.
Posted by: doonhamer on 12:21am Sun 4 May 08
tick..tick...tick...
tick...
tick..tick...tick...
tick...
Posted by: Im no really here on 12:21am Sun 4 May 08
[quote]The prime minister will hope to begin offering his critics evidence of the promise to "listen and learn' when he gives a series of television interviews to be broadcast over the next few days.[/quote] We heard all this before when Labour lost control of Scotland a year ago. "We will listen more" and yet they tell the people of they will vote against the holding of a referendum.
HP Sauce just does not come over as a caring listening type does he? I say a headline that Brown should not smile, because it looks unnatural.
The prime minister will hope to begin offering his critics evidence of the promise to "listen and learn' when he gives a series of television interviews to be broadcast over the next few days.
We heard all this before when Labour lost control of Scotland a year ago. "We will listen more" and yet they tell the people of they will vote against the holding of a referendum.
HP Sauce just does not come over as a caring listening type does he? I say a headline that Brown should not smile, because it looks unnatural.
Posted by: Im no really here on 12:24am Sun 4 May 08
sorry "I saw a headline...."
sorry "I saw a headline...."
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 12:40am Sun 4 May 08
Clare @ 12:10am
Oh yes, I remember it weel ... the sight and sound of these morons cheering and waving their order papers made me want to puke.
Our memories are better than their conciences. By heavens, they'll pey fur it, they'll pey fur it.
Clare @ 12:10am
Oh yes, I remember it weel ... the sight and sound of these morons cheering and waving their order papers made me want to puke.
Our memories are better than their conciences. By heavens, they'll pey fur it, they'll pey fur it.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:43am Sun 4 May 08
I hear some talk on the media that a stalking-
horse candidate id perhaps emerging to stand
against Brown. My view is this ; too little,
too late ! These spineless currs on the NEW -
LABOUR benches have sat on their collective
hands and oversaw some of the most anti-
democratic legislation ever to come before the
House. They gave the nod from everything from
ilegal wars to a war against the poor,
hammered asylum seekers, plundered pensions,
and are set to spend untold billions upon
weapons of mass destruction. The Labour Party
is dead folks. It died of shame! Its time we
all buried it !!
I hear some talk on the media that a stalking-
horse candidate id perhaps emerging to stand
against Brown. My view is this ; too little,
too late ! These spineless currs on the NEW -
LABOUR benches have sat on their collective
hands and oversaw some of the most anti-
democratic legislation ever to come before the
House. They gave the nod from everything from
ilegal wars to a war against the poor,
hammered asylum seekers, plundered pensions,
and are set to spend untold billions upon
weapons of mass destruction. The Labour Party
is dead folks. It died of shame! Its time we
all buried it !!
Posted by: Douglas, kirkintilloch on 12:43am Sun 4 May 08
Something for Scottish Labour voters to ponder. A huge majority have given their verdict on the current Labour party; can they all be wrong? Choice in Scotland appears, to me, to be vote Labour and get Tory with a bias for London or vote SNP and get SNP with a bias for Scotland.
Something for Scottish Labour voters to ponder. A huge majority have given their verdict on the current Labour party; can they all be wrong? Choice in Scotland appears, to me, to be vote Labour and get Tory with a bias for London or vote SNP and get SNP with a bias for Scotland.
Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 12:44am Sun 4 May 08
Clare, totally agree. They are collectively responsible and whether they sacrifice one, ten or one hundred of their numbers will they still be held accountable by the electorate for the misery that they have caused.
They are still the same MP’s who voted for an illegal war, they are still the same MP’s who have got their snouts so deep in the trough that that didn’t give a fcuk about stealing money from the poor, they are the same MP’s who voted for the New Labour Project and they will be the same Labour MP’s that will put themselves forward at the next general election.
Leopards cannot change their spots and these bunch of greedy sanctimonious shower of b*stards shouldn’t be let anyway nearer the corridors of power again.
The sooner that we are independent the sooner that we shake off the slime that it is the Labour party.
Rant over.
Clare, totally agree. They are collectively responsible and whether they sacrifice one, ten or one hundred of their numbers will they still be held accountable by the electorate for the misery that they have caused.
They are still the same MP’s who voted for an illegal war, they are still the same MP’s who have got their snouts so deep in the trough that that didn’t give a fcuk about stealing money from the poor, they are the same MP’s who voted for the New Labour Project and they will be the same Labour MP’s that will put themselves forward at the next general election.
Leopards cannot change their spots and these bunch of greedy sanctimonious shower of b*stards shouldn’t be let anyway nearer the corridors of power again.
The sooner that we are independent the sooner that we shake off the slime that it is the Labour party.
Rant over.
Posted by: R MacLeod, Glasgow on 6:28am Sun 4 May 08
the Nu Labour party was and is just a 3 ring political circus , when the ringmaster in chief left the shallowness of it all is laid bare for all to see.
bringing in the clown to be ringmaster was never gonig to work.
For those of us that unlike Brown have worked in the real world we have seen it many times .
the guy that gets promoted way above his abilities,the talk in the canteen is always how did that numpty get that job???
Well with Brown we know it was by scheming and back stabbing and an incredible amount of luck.
when John Smith dies it left a void in the Labour party ,especially in Scotland the choices were limited Brown,Reid ,Dewar ,Wilson Liddel and not many others .
not exactly a great choice (contrary to what the sycophantic Scottish Labour media told us all)
So by default Brown took up the mantle and this entire false personna was invented for him by a compliant Scottish media.
Later the gullible English media picked up on it and believed it , big problem was Brown himself started to believe it too.
He then set about biting the hand that was feeding him namely Blair , the only one that could have carried off this ,the biggest ever con in British Politics.
You remove him and you are left with the dregs.
the party is over so to speak happenned first in Scotland where even bigger dregs were in charge,the rest in Uk is now withering on the vine.
They will squabble and screram the entire way to the gallows it will be a most unedyfing site.
It does give us in Scotland a tremendous opportunity to make our country a better place to live and be I only hope the Scots are able to grasp this opportunity.
Tory /Labour who cares? None of them give a toss about Scotland
the Nu Labour party was and is just a 3 ring political circus , when the ringmaster in chief left the shallowness of it all is laid bare for all to see.
bringing in the clown to be ringmaster was never gonig to work.
For those of us that unlike Brown have worked in the real world we have seen it many times .
the guy that gets promoted way above his abilities,the talk in the canteen is always how did that numpty get that job???
Well with Brown we know it was by scheming and back stabbing and an incredible amount of luck.
when John Smith dies it left a void in the Labour party ,especially in Scotland the choices were limited Brown,Reid ,Dewar ,Wilson Liddel and not many others .
not exactly a great choice (contrary to what the sycophantic Scottish Labour media told us all)
So by default Brown took up the mantle and this entire false personna was invented for him by a compliant Scottish media.
Later the gullible English media picked up on it and believed it , big problem was Brown himself started to believe it too.
He then set about biting the hand that was feeding him namely Blair , the only one that could have carried off this ,the biggest ever con in British Politics.
You remove him and you are left with the dregs.
the party is over so to speak happenned first in Scotland where even bigger dregs were in charge,the rest in Uk is now withering on the vine.
They will squabble and screram the entire way to the gallows it will be a most unedyfing site.
It does give us in Scotland a tremendous opportunity to make our country a better place to live and be I only hope the Scots are able to grasp this opportunity.
Tory /Labour who cares? None of them give a toss about Scotland
Posted by: Joe Miles on 6:57am Sun 4 May 08
I bet the MP in question was the rev Cairns, snivelling little git
I bet the MP in question was the rev Cairns, snivelling little git
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:12am Sun 4 May 08
What a spineless, rudderless shower. The sooner Scotland sorts itself out from the Westmonster Show the better.
What a spineless, rudderless shower. The sooner Scotland sorts itself out from the Westmonster Show the better.
Posted by: Guga, Rockall on 8:09am Sun 4 May 08
I think this is quite comical. These New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party members and MP's are the same ones who have been supporting Maggie Broon as he slowly but surely drags us down into the mire.
These are the people who have supported Labour's general sleaze and corruption, their taxing people into the poor house, their inflationary tax grab on fuel, their hammering the motorists into the ground, their greed and theft in relation to expenses claims, their Stalinist, totalitarian aproach to ID cards and the removal of our freedoms, their utter arrogance and disdain of the people etc. etc.
Now they are worried because they are liable to have to take their snouts out of the trough as they and Maggie Broon are on their way to being booted out.
Broon reckons he is going to "listen" now - yes, and pigs might fly. Next thing is he'll be telling us that his party still has an ethical foreign policy - this despite Bliar, then himself, and their respective cabinets, being war criminals.
Their arrogance knows no bounds. The sooner we can get shot of them the better, and the sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.
I think this is quite comical. These New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party members and MP's are the same ones who have been supporting Maggie Broon as he slowly but surely drags us down into the mire.
These are the people who have supported Labour's general sleaze and corruption, their taxing people into the poor house, their inflationary tax grab on fuel, their hammering the motorists into the ground, their greed and theft in relation to expenses claims, their Stalinist, totalitarian aproach to ID cards and the removal of our freedoms, their utter arrogance and disdain of the people etc. etc.
Now they are worried because they are liable to have to take their snouts out of the trough as they and Maggie Broon are on their way to being booted out.
Broon reckons he is going to "listen" now - yes, and pigs might fly. Next thing is he'll be telling us that his party still has an ethical foreign policy - this despite Bliar, then himself, and their respective cabinets, being war criminals.
Their arrogance knows no bounds. The sooner we can get shot of them the better, and the sooner Scotland gets its independence the better.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 9:14am Sun 4 May 08
Aye its all coming home to roost. Clare is spot on, there isnt an innocent one amongst them.
What I find sickening is that these self appointed elite will juggle the words around but lets face it, if they have the mindset to introduce a tax that costs the poorest workers 30/40 quid a week, then it shows what their overall attitude to the People is. Brown and his Scum are crooks plain and simple. They wont change in the slightest no matter what they say. Everyone of them should be thrown out of a Job as soon as possible and you lot in the unions better get on the peoples side or you lot will be next. Dont you lot dare to give Browns stinking New Labour one penny of our money to run a campaign. Withdraw your support immediately. The People want them gone into oblivion NOW.
And Alistair Darling told the BBC he did not want Scotland to get its own News Coverage in Scotland in case it spread Nationalism and the breakup of the Union. I certainly hope not one person in Edinburgh Votes for the maggot.
Aye its all coming home to roost. Clare is spot on, there isnt an innocent one amongst them.
What I find sickening is that these self appointed elite will juggle the words around but lets face it, if they have the mindset to introduce a tax that costs the poorest workers 30/40 quid a week, then it shows what their overall attitude to the People is. Brown and his Scum are crooks plain and simple. They wont change in the slightest no matter what they say. Everyone of them should be thrown out of a Job as soon as possible and you lot in the unions better get on the peoples side or you lot will be next. Dont you lot dare to give Browns stinking New Labour one penny of our money to run a campaign. Withdraw your support immediately. The People want them gone into oblivion NOW.
And Alistair Darling told the BBC he did not want Scotland to get its own News Coverage in Scotland in case it spread Nationalism and the breakup of the Union. I certainly hope not one person in Edinburgh Votes for the maggot.
Posted by: lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 9:33am Sun 4 May 08
Too right Mike the chickens are coming home to roost.
Labour are devoid of logic; it was their MPs who allowed Gordon Brown to get the post with no challenger; it was they that supported the last 11 years of policies; it was they who cheered the withdrawal of the 10% tax bracket; it was they who...... need I go on?
Now they want to hang Brown out to dry. Brown was given the 'hospital pass' in rugby terms but equally he wanted the prime ministers position. So if the Labour MPs wish to replace him, who will they choose....to my mind there are no real contenders.
Also it is too late to recover this debacle for the next Westminster election; Labour will lose. They had better think about their future intentions post 2014 or 2015.
Too right Mike the chickens are coming home to roost.
Labour are devoid of logic; it was their MPs who allowed Gordon Brown to get the post with no challenger; it was they that supported the last 11 years of policies; it was they who cheered the withdrawal of the 10% tax bracket; it was they who...... need I go on?
Now they want to hang Brown out to dry. Brown was given the 'hospital pass' in rugby terms but equally he wanted the prime ministers position. So if the Labour MPs wish to replace him, who will they choose....to my mind there are no real contenders.
Also it is too late to recover this debacle for the next Westminster election; Labour will lose. They had better think about their future intentions post 2014 or 2015.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 9:40am Sun 4 May 08
Ermmm, where are Liebour supporters? Where are those who think that being an adjunct of England is still good for us?
Still in bed or had no instructions yet?
Ermmm, where are Liebour supporters? Where are those who think that being an adjunct of England is still good for us?
Still in bed or had no instructions yet?
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 9:54am Sun 4 May 08
Labour rats scurrying to leave the sinking ship that is SS Brown. How so New Labour.
They all gladly supported Brown without the need for a leadership election. They all supported Brown's plans to double the tax on the poor. They all thought that Brown was a winner, a person different from the corrupt Blair, a principled politician and a competent administrator. How wrong they were.
Now the panic has set in, not just amongst backbench Labour MPs, but amongst Labour ministers. They have calculated that if Boris the Buffoon can take London from Red Ken then Labour has no chance at the next UK election.
The need for the Labour party to connect with English voters will initiate the start of an anti-Scottish witch-hunt within the Labour party. It won't be just Brown, it will be Darling, Browne, Alexander etc. All will go.
So who will defend Scotland from a Tory government. Not a future Labour party they will only be too happy to bash what is viewed as troublesome Scots to gain advantage in England.
Labour rats scurrying to leave the sinking ship that is SS Brown. How so New Labour.
They all gladly supported Brown without the need for a leadership election. They all supported Brown's plans to double the tax on the poor. They all thought that Brown was a winner, a person different from the corrupt Blair, a principled politician and a competent administrator. How wrong they were.
Now the panic has set in, not just amongst backbench Labour MPs, but amongst Labour ministers. They have calculated that if Boris the Buffoon can take London from Red Ken then Labour has no chance at the next UK election.
The need for the Labour party to connect with English voters will initiate the start of an anti-Scottish witch-hunt within the Labour party. It won't be just Brown, it will be Darling, Browne, Alexander etc. All will go.
So who will defend Scotland from a Tory government. Not a future Labour party they will only be too happy to bash what is viewed as troublesome Scots to gain advantage in England.
Posted by: jazzguy on 10:05am Sun 4 May 08
I think new labour can be compared to malcolm maclarens film, the great rock and roll swindle.Empty and vapid.I do feel sorry for Gordon Brown though , i think he was left a raw deal from MrBlair who got out in time to avoid the consequenses of his car salesman politics.
I think new labour can be compared to malcolm maclarens film, the great rock and roll swindle.Empty and vapid.I do feel sorry for Gordon Brown though , i think he was left a raw deal from MrBlair who got out in time to avoid the consequenses of his car salesman politics.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:16am Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote:
The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok\'d by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn\'t they say \"No, you can\'t do this.\" Let\'s throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on?
They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too. [/quote] The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don't want a Scot running the UK.
Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour.
Clare wrote:
The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok\'d by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn\'t they say \"No, you can\'t do this.\" Let\'s throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on?
They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too.
The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don't want a Scot running the UK.
Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 10:33am Sun 4 May 08
Clare @ 12;06,
A cracker of a post, spot on, well done
Clare @ 12;06,
A cracker of a post, spot on, well done
Posted by: Margaret, Edinburgh on 10:55am Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote: The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok\\\'d by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn\\\'t they say \\\"No, you can\\\'t do this.\\\" Let\\\'s throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on? They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too. [/quote] The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don\'t want a Scot running the UK. Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown\'s nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour. [/quote] [bold]Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters......[/bold]
Blair is Scottish, too... although it does reminds me of the comment in the Guardian before Blair became Prime Minister that "...he ([/italic] Blair[/italic] ) is ethnically Scottish, but passes for English...". Yes, even the right-on, liberal, PC Guardian thinks that being Scottish makes you smehow less worthy.
Wardog wrote:
Clare wrote: The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok'd by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn't they say \\\"No, you can't do this.\\\" Let's throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on? They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too.
The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don\'t want a Scot running the UK. Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown\'s nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour.
Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters......
Blair is Scottish, too... although it does reminds me of the comment in the Guardian before Blair became Prime Minister that "...he ( Blair ) is ethnically Scottish, but passes for English...". Yes, even the right-on, liberal, PC Guardian thinks that being Scottish makes you smehow less worthy.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:06am Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]jazzguy[/bold] wrote:
I think new labour can be compared to malcolm maclarens film, the great rock and roll swindle.Empty and vapid.I do feel sorry for Gordon Brown though , i think he was left a raw deal from MrBlair who got out in time to avoid the consequenses of his car salesman politics.[/quote] I have to disagree with you there i don't feel sorry for gordon brown at all. Granted i do think tony got out in time as all this would be on his head right now. But having said that GB was the one that was there right beside blair through the previous 10 years, it was him that raided the pensions, him that sold gold at rock bottom price, he financed the irag/afgan war (but did it very badly so the uk troops do not recieve proper equipment and there was even reports that they were going through the americans rubbish for food) it was his budget that scrapped the 10p tax. No gordon brown shares the blame with blair and should not be afforded any sympathy. he is getting all he deserves the only shame is that blair is getting away scotfree (no pun intended)
jazzguy wrote:
I think new labour can be compared to malcolm maclarens film, the great rock and roll swindle.Empty and vapid.I do feel sorry for Gordon Brown though , i think he was left a raw deal from MrBlair who got out in time to avoid the consequenses of his car salesman politics.
I have to disagree with you there i don't feel sorry for gordon brown at all. Granted i do think tony got out in time as all this would be on his head right now. But having said that GB was the one that was there right beside blair through the previous 10 years, it was him that raided the pensions, him that sold gold at rock bottom price, he financed the irag/afgan war (but did it very badly so the uk troops do not recieve proper equipment and there was even reports that they were going through the americans rubbish for food) it was his budget that scrapped the 10p tax. No gordon brown shares the blame with blair and should not be afforded any sympathy. he is getting all he deserves the only shame is that blair is getting away scotfree (no pun intended)
Posted by: heavy, Glasgow on 11:30am Sun 4 May 08
If there is one political scumbag even worse than Blair it is Brown .He caused as much damage behind the scenes as Blair, but took none of the blame. Also picking the dangerous (lawyer)Darling as Chancellor truly shows how incompetent he really is.
Two dysfunctional traitorous Scotsmen with Scottish blood on their boggen hands.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
If there is one political scumbag even worse than Blair it is Brown .He caused as much damage behind the scenes as Blair, but took none of the blame. Also picking the dangerous (lawyer)Darling as Chancellor truly shows how incompetent he really is.
Two dysfunctional traitorous Scotsmen with Scottish blood on their boggen hands.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Posted by: Andrew BOD, Aberdeen on 11:42am Sun 4 May 08
Watching Brown being interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning was awful. He is a lame duck, a fall-guy and there is no come-back on the cards. His performance was dire, defensive, dour and humiliating. He had nothing new to say since the Thursday massacre and looked like he was about to cry. Andrew Marr, not exactly known for his voracious interviewing, even eased up on him. Labour are in deep deep trouble with no natural successor, except perhaps, dare I say it...... Ken Livingstone!
Watching Brown being interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning was awful. He is a lame duck, a fall-guy and there is no come-back on the cards. His performance was dire, defensive, dour and humiliating. He had nothing new to say since the Thursday massacre and looked like he was about to cry. Andrew Marr, not exactly known for his voracious interviewing, even eased up on him. Labour are in deep deep trouble with no natural successor, except perhaps, dare I say it...... Ken Livingstone!
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 12:38pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Margaret[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote: The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok\\\'d by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn\\\'t they say \\\"No, you can\\\'t do this.\\\" Let\\\'s throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on? They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too. [/quote] The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don\'t want a Scot running the UK. Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown\'s nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour. [/quote] [bold]Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters......[/bold] Blair is Scottish, too... although it does reminds me of the comment in the Guardian before Blair became Prime Minister that "...he ([/italic] Blair[/italic] ) is ethnically Scottish, but passes for English...". Yes, even the right-on, liberal, PC Guardian thinks that being Scottish makes you smehow less worthy.[/quote] Good point Margaret; the EBC Radio 4 did a "vox pop" on the streets of London last Friday asking people their opinion of Gazza Broon. One man said "He's a Scotchman, says it all."
There are masses comments in the online papers about Broon's nationality and yet he still tries to fabricate Britishness. Bizarre!
Margaret wrote:
Wardog wrote: Clare wrote: The hypocrisy of Labour backbenchers in going for brown is breathtaking. He is paying the price for Labour Policy when Blair was in charge, doing the things THEY ok'd by nodding their heads and giving them the go ahead. Forgive me, if they were so concerned why didn't they say \\\"No, you can't do this.\\\" Let's throw some issues into the debate, like, say, Iraq? The illegal invasion? The total devotion of Blair to Bush? The sheer refusal to recognise International Law and our standing in the UN? Shall I go on? They blame Brown for all of that? I blame THEM. They sat there ignoring the truth and they let it happen. Brown is paying the price and they dare to now attempt to cut him loose and pretend none of it is their fault. It is ALL their fault. They, ultimately, will pay the price too.
The unspoken truth that the backbenchers are hearing at the doorsteps is that their constituents don\'t want a Scot running the UK. Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown\'s nationality matters...... given that the labour policies are exactly that which Blair was elected for, the resistance to Brown must be partially personal, his character, his dialect and his demeanour.
Time for the herald to do a poll and ask the question of the UK about whether Gordon brown's nationality matters...... Blair is Scottish, too... although it does reminds me of the comment in the Guardian before Blair became Prime Minister that "...he ( Blair ) is ethnically Scottish, but passes for English...". Yes, even the right-on, liberal, PC Guardian thinks that being Scottish makes you smehow less worthy.
Good point Margaret; the EBC Radio 4 did a "vox pop" on the streets of London last Friday asking people their opinion of Gazza Broon. One man said "He's a Scotchman, says it all."
There are masses comments in the online papers about Broon's nationality and yet he still tries to fabricate Britishness. Bizarre!
Posted by: Margaret, Edinburgh on 1:05pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Andrew BOD[/bold] wrote:
Watching Brown being interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning was awful. He is a lame duck, a fall-guy and there is no come-back on the cards. His performance was dire, defensive, dour and humiliating. He had nothing new to say since the Thursday massacre and looked like he was about to cry. Andrew Marr, not exactly known for his voracious interviewing, even eased up on him. Labour are in deep deep trouble with no natural successor, except perhaps, dare I say it...... Ken Livingstone![/quote] Just watched the Perfect 10, AKA Bendy Wendy, on the BBC Politics Show admitting to making 'mistakes' but when asked to elaborate several times, dodged the question totally, except for a slight mention of the donations scandal.
The 'listening and learning, we feel your pain' New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party showing its true colours! Same old arrogance, refusal to recognise their incompetence and to display any humility to a citizenry which is sick to death of them!
Andrew BOD wrote:
Watching Brown being interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning was awful. He is a lame duck, a fall-guy and there is no come-back on the cards. His performance was dire, defensive, dour and humiliating. He had nothing new to say since the Thursday massacre and looked like he was about to cry. Andrew Marr, not exactly known for his voracious interviewing, even eased up on him. Labour are in deep deep trouble with no natural successor, except perhaps, dare I say it...... Ken Livingstone!
Just watched the Perfect 10, AKA Bendy Wendy, on the BBC Politics Show admitting to making 'mistakes' but when asked to elaborate several times, dodged the question totally, except for a slight mention of the donations scandal.
The 'listening and learning, we feel your pain' New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party showing its true colours! Same old arrogance, refusal to recognise their incompetence and to display any humility to a citizenry which is sick to death of them!
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 1:15pm Sun 4 May 08
Re the English and Wales election results.
At the next General Election (whenever that snivelling creep Brown calls it) the Scottish people have to remember only one thing -
[bold]Any vote not for the SNP is a wasted vote.[/bold]
Re the English and Wales election results.
At the next General Election (whenever that snivelling creep Brown calls it) the Scottish people have to remember only one thing -
Any vote not for the SNP is a wasted vote. Posted by: Im no really here on 1:56pm Sun 4 May 08
The picture I have of the Labour Party could be 65 millions years ago. Dinosaurs chewing the grass, blissfully unaware of the approaching comet. Their fate could be the same.
One point about the polls prior to last Thursday. They all underestimated the swing to Tories and the increase in support for LibDems. They went from 13% to 25% in the national projection. Projections were that Tories would gain 200. They gained over 250 and Labour lost well over 300 seats. Tories now have more council seats that Labour ever did at their height in the 90's.
The picture I have of the Labour Party could be 65 millions years ago. Dinosaurs chewing the grass, blissfully unaware of the approaching comet. Their fate could be the same.
One point about the polls prior to last Thursday. They all underestimated the swing to Tories and the increase in support for LibDems. They went from 13% to 25% in the national projection. Projections were that Tories would gain 200. They gained over 250 and Labour lost well over 300 seats. Tories now have more council seats that Labour ever did at their height in the 90's.
Posted by: Wullie on 2:16pm Sun 4 May 08
I might be mistaken but this arrogant rump of a New Labour administration would like to spin it that their rejection at the polls was because of the 10 pence tax cut and international issues.
Seems that they don't listen and that they certainly won't learn.
1) Pension provisions - ruined
2) Record levels of indebtetnes - PFI
3) Bankrupt banks - there but for the grace of the taxpayer
4) Cash for honours
5) An illegal and illconceived war in Iraq
6) Stealth taxes on everything
7) Spin
8) Ever increasing state surveilance
9) Tax exemption for the super rich
10) Uncontrolled immigration
Yeh, Gordon if you think you can spin it that it's all about the 10 pence tax rate and some external international factors then this just shows how arrogant and out of touch your party is.
Time to clear you out and it seems the people think so too!
I might be mistaken but this arrogant rump of a New Labour administration would like to spin it that their rejection at the polls was because of the 10 pence tax cut and international issues.
Seems that they don't listen and that they certainly won't learn.
1) Pension provisions - ruined
2) Record levels of indebtetnes - PFI
3) Bankrupt banks - there but for the grace of the taxpayer
4) Cash for honours
5) An illegal and illconceived war in Iraq
6) Stealth taxes on everything
7) Spin
8) Ever increasing state surveilance
9) Tax exemption for the super rich
10) Uncontrolled immigration
Yeh, Gordon if you think you can spin it that it's all about the 10 pence tax rate and some external international factors then this just shows how arrogant and out of touch your party is.
Time to clear you out and it seems the people think so too!
Posted by: Scott2006, Outside Glasgow on 3:10pm Sun 4 May 08
Labour peaked at 10,929 councillors (48% of vote) in Great Britain in 1996, Lib Dems peaked in 1996 with 5,078 councillors (22% of vote), the Tories had their lowest number of councillors in , yes you guessed it, 1996 4,276 councillors (19% of vote).
The highest Tory percentage in the last thirty years at council level was 50% in 1978.
Maybe it's unconnected but when Labour got Blair after Smith and before him Kinnock, in local council percentages Labour did at least 8% better than before for at least 4 years - only falling backwards after the first full year of Labour in power.
Today the headline figures, avoiding by-elections for ease of calculation, gives councillors in Great Britain as Tories 9,688 at 44%, Labour 5,132 at 24%, and LibD 4,440 at 25% and 2,750 making up the rest.
The John Major Tories that faced Neil Kinnock and the 'last one out turn the lights off' election in 1992 got in England 45.461% to Labour's 33.933%.
By 1997 Major got 33.696% of English votes for the Tories against Tony Blair's 43.547%.
4 million people fewer seem to want to vote compared to the previous generation of voters.
Comparing 2005 GE with 2005 council votes in percentage terms - Tory England GE 35.457%, council 37%, Labour England GE 35.457%, council 29%.
Labour are hoping this trend holds up - they expect to get 6.5% or more on top of these recent results and that the Tory vote is overstated in the mid 40% range.
Sorry for the figures - but we are seeing a movement from the Red Tories back to the Blue Tories in the electoral cycle.
Tony Blair (in England) had a lead of almost 10% in 1997, 6.2% lead in 2001, falling behind Tories in 2005 by almost 0.3%.
Brown could be as much as 12% behind the Tories (in England) if a General Election was held soon.
Labour have had fewer councillors every year since 1996. Gordon B cannot hold back the tide. So he will be all washed up in 2 years time. And so will wee Wendy.
Labour peaked at 10,929 councillors (48% of vote) in Great Britain in 1996, Lib Dems peaked in 1996 with 5,078 councillors (22% of vote), the Tories had their lowest number of councillors in , yes you guessed it, 1996 4,276 councillors (19% of vote).
The highest Tory percentage in the last thirty years at council level was 50% in 1978.
Maybe it's unconnected but when Labour got Blair after Smith and before him Kinnock, in local council percentages Labour did at least 8% better than before for at least 4 years - only falling backwards after the first full year of Labour in power.
Today the headline figures, avoiding by-elections for ease of calculation, gives councillors in Great Britain as Tories 9,688 at 44%, Labour 5,132 at 24%, and LibD 4,440 at 25% and 2,750 making up the rest.
The John Major Tories that faced Neil Kinnock and the 'last one out turn the lights off' election in 1992 got in England 45.461% to Labour's 33.933%.
By 1997 Major got 33.696% of English votes for the Tories against Tony Blair's 43.547%.
4 million people fewer seem to want to vote compared to the previous generation of voters.
Comparing 2005 GE with 2005 council votes in percentage terms - Tory England GE 35.457%, council 37%, Labour England GE 35.457%, council 29%.
Labour are hoping this trend holds up - they expect to get 6.5% or more on top of these recent results and that the Tory vote is overstated in the mid 40% range.
Sorry for the figures - but we are seeing a movement from the Red Tories back to the Blue Tories in the electoral cycle.
Tony Blair (in England) had a lead of almost 10% in 1997, 6.2% lead in 2001, falling behind Tories in 2005 by almost 0.3%.
Brown could be as much as 12% behind the Tories (in England) if a General Election was held soon.
Labour have had fewer councillors every year since 1996. Gordon B cannot hold back the tide. So he will be all washed up in 2 years time. And so will wee Wendy.
Posted by: hammer hannaway, glasgow on 3:21pm Sun 4 May 08
Present situation reminds me of the Jim Callaghan era
He "believed in electiions...that's when the people speak", but he then dodged them until the last possible minute - and was enabled to do so first by the LibDems and then by the SNP when the LibDems jumped ship
Not a shadow of doubt but Brown will steer the same course to the same Titanic outcome as Callaghan's
As we have seen in the past the Scottish Libs can easily be tranformed into a puckle of noddies by a ministerial Mondeo
Let's hope the present SNP are away ahead of Brown and have already 'listened and learned' and that they never again fall into the trap of thinking the tail can wag the dog - and savour the perks
Scotland badly needs some political integrity. SNP take note
Present situation reminds me of the Jim Callaghan era
He "believed in electiions...that's when the people speak", but he then dodged them until the last possible minute - and was enabled to do so first by the LibDems and then by the SNP when the LibDems jumped ship
Not a shadow of doubt but Brown will steer the same course to the same Titanic outcome as Callaghan's
As we have seen in the past the Scottish Libs can easily be tranformed into a puckle of noddies by a ministerial Mondeo
Let's hope the present SNP are away ahead of Brown and have already 'listened and learned' and that they never again fall into the trap of thinking the tail can wag the dog - and savour the perks
Scotland badly needs some political integrity. SNP take note
Posted by: Scott2006, Outside Glasgow on 3:22pm Sun 4 May 08
Just to say the 50% Tory was as a percentage of ALL councillors and not as an actual share of the vote.
try the ww w dot gwydir dot demon .co.uk
/uklocalgov
Gordon is too far in to change policy nevermind become master of his own destiny and control events. He might want a June election next year if he follows Harold Wilson's strategy or wait until October if he thinks he might face a Jim Callaghan level of union 'strife' and strikes.
Just to say the 50% Tory was as a percentage of ALL councillors and not as an actual share of the vote.
try the ww w dot gwydir dot demon .co.uk
/uklocalgov
Gordon is too far in to change policy nevermind become master of his own destiny and control events. He might want a June election next year if he follows Harold Wilson's strategy or wait until October if he thinks he might face a Jim Callaghan level of union 'strife' and strikes.
Posted by: heavy, Glasgow on 3:51pm Sun 4 May 08
Before SNP supporters get to smug.
Blair, a LAWYER, destroyed Labour.
Darling a LAWYER has aided the destruction of the economy.
MacAskill an SNP lawyer MSP and the present justice minister, is destroying the efforts campaigners like ourselves have made in exposing the appalling state our civil legal system is in at present.
Despite the OFT investigating a SUPER complaint made by WHICH? against the operations of the legal system in Scotland MacAskill blatantly carries on ignoring the
evidence and the failures of victims of Scottish injustice to get "JUSTICE".
Salmond is well aware of ALL OF THIS, as he was party to the evidence gathered for the
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007.Our group along with many others provided that evidence.
At present much of Scotlands legislation is being created by a small committee headed by former judge Bill Aitken, a diehard fanatic supporting the abuses we have faced at the hands of a legal system that persecutes anyone standing up to their tyranny.
While these two MAJOR issues continue, there is NO HOPE of improvements to Scotlands people as anyone who creates even a small amount of wealth will quickly realise how easily that can be THIEVED due to the operations of Scotlands legal system.
Neither the previous administration under McConnell or the present one under Salmond are doing ANYTHING substantial to eradicate the injustice many victims have faced while being rendered in Scotlands draconian court process's.
Until there is a CLEAR understanding by the majority of Scots how important this is to the future of Scotland, the inequality and an ever expanding group of legal victims will continue unabated.
Anyone who needs proof of the importance of these matters, which the SNP administration have demonstrated time and again to allow to continue should view the following links
at
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/histor
ic/justice1/inquirie
s-02/just1-lps-index
.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/inquiries/lpla/j2
-lpla-evid.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/reports-06/j2r06-
11-Vol01-00.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/reports-06/j2r06-
11-Vol02-00.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/or-06/j206-1502.h
tm#Col2430
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Before SNP supporters get to smug.
Blair, a LAWYER, destroyed Labour.
Darling a LAWYER has aided the destruction of the economy.
MacAskill an SNP lawyer MSP and the present justice minister, is destroying the efforts campaigners like ourselves have made in exposing the appalling state our civil legal system is in at present.
Despite the OFT investigating a SUPER complaint made by WHICH? against the operations of the legal system in Scotland MacAskill blatantly carries on ignoring the
evidence and the failures of victims of Scottish injustice to get "JUSTICE".
Salmond is well aware of ALL OF THIS, as he was party to the evidence gathered for the
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007.Our group along with many others provided that evidence.
At present much of Scotlands legislation is being created by a small committee headed by former judge Bill Aitken, a diehard fanatic supporting the abuses we have faced at the hands of a legal system that persecutes anyone standing up to their tyranny.
While these two MAJOR issues continue, there is NO HOPE of improvements to Scotlands people as anyone who creates even a small amount of wealth will quickly realise how easily that can be THIEVED due to the operations of Scotlands legal system.
Neither the previous administration under McConnell or the present one under Salmond are doing ANYTHING substantial to eradicate the injustice many victims have faced while being rendered in Scotlands draconian court process's.
Until there is a CLEAR understanding by the majority of Scots how important this is to the future of Scotland, the inequality and an ever expanding group of legal victims will continue unabated.
Anyone who needs proof of the importance of these matters, which the SNP administration have demonstrated time and again to allow to continue should view the following links
at
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/histor
ic/justice1/inquirie
s-02/just1-lps-index
.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/inquiries/lpla/j2
-lpla-evid.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/reports-06/j2r06-
11-Vol01-00.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/reports-06/j2r06-
11-Vol02-00.htm
http://www.scottish.
parliament.uk/busine
ss/committees/justic
e2/or-06/j206-1502.h
tm#Col2430
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Posted by: Professor Hertz Van Rental on 3:56pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Im no really here[/bold] wrote:
The picture I have of the Labour Party could be 65 millions years ago. Dinosaurs chewing the grass, blissfully unaware of the approaching comet. Their fate could be the same. One point about the polls prior to last Thursday. They all underestimated the swing to Tories and the increase in support for LibDems. They went from 13% to 25% in the national projection. Projections were that Tories would gain 200. They gained over 250 and Labour lost well over 300 seats. Tories now have more council seats that Labour ever did at their height in the 90's.[/quote] the LD actually lost support compared to the same ward elections 4 years ago. You are being selective - they dropped a couple of points.
Im no really here wrote:
The picture I have of the Labour Party could be 65 millions years ago. Dinosaurs chewing the grass, blissfully unaware of the approaching comet. Their fate could be the same. One point about the polls prior to last Thursday. They all underestimated the swing to Tories and the increase in support for LibDems. They went from 13% to 25% in the national projection. Projections were that Tories would gain 200. They gained over 250 and Labour lost well over 300 seats. Tories now have more council seats that Labour ever did at their height in the 90's.
the LD actually lost support compared to the same ward elections 4 years ago. You are being selective - they dropped a couple of points.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Doomed I tell ye! on 4:20pm Sun 4 May 08
Seems Frank Field has sussed he was tricked to'ther week and is bringing in an early day motion requiring Brown and Darling to detail their plans to compensate those who lost out on the removal of the 10% tax rate.
The Observer is making noises about a motion of no-confidence vote on the way if Brown does not get it together quickly.
Matthew Parris in the Times takes it further and says the Government has to understand this is not a blip it is nothing less than the public loss of confidence in the Labour Government. It should be noted that he is not smug about the Tories chances it is simply compared to Nu Labour they now look less toxic!
Seems Frank Field has sussed he was tricked to'ther week and is bringing in an early day motion requiring Brown and Darling to detail their plans to compensate those who lost out on the removal of the 10% tax rate.
The Observer is making noises about a motion of no-confidence vote on the way if Brown does not get it together quickly.
Matthew Parris in the Times takes it further and says the Government has to understand this is not a blip it is nothing less than the public loss of confidence in the Labour Government. It should be noted that he is not smug about the Tories chances it is simply compared to Nu Labour they now look less toxic!
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 6:25pm Sun 4 May 08
Dear All
It's all over for Brown.
Will he has the dignity to leave quietly and quickly?
I don't think so!
It's over bar the shouting.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Dear All
It's all over for Brown.
Will he has the dignity to leave quietly and quickly?
I don't think so!
It's over bar the shouting.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Bay of Bengal on 7:13pm Sun 4 May 08
Remember as well that he squandered billions from the mobile phone licences.
What exactly, has Nero done that has been good, either for Scotland or Britain as a whole?
Remember as well that he squandered billions from the mobile phone licences.
What exactly, has Nero done that has been good, either for Scotland or Britain as a whole?
Posted by: ptdoug, ek on 7:28pm Sun 4 May 08
SALMOND: TIME TO TAKE BACK OIL.
Sunday May 4,2008
By Mark Stevenson
ALEX Salmond will this week take the first steps in an audacious bid to seize control of North Sea oil from Westminster.
The First Minister has already met with senior aides to discuss the controversial battle plan to shift energy powers to Holyrood.
Sources say now is the optimum time to strike at London with Gordon Brown’s government in disarray following the Prime Minister’s worst week since taking office.
The Scottish Sunday Express can reveal Finance Secretary John Swinney will fire the opening shot by writing to Chancellor Alistair Darling to demand an immediate increase in the share of oil revenue.
It is estimated North Sea oil will be worth around £56billion to the UK economy over the next six years.
A source close to the First Minister said last night: “Gordon Brown’s difficulty is Scotland’s opportunity. The Scottish Government will be stepping up our efforts to secure fair access for Scotland to our own North Sea revenues.
“And in his present enfeebled political position the Prime Minister is in no position to say ‘No’.”
Before the Holyrood election, the SNP pledged to make it an early priority to begin discussions with Westminster on “options for the transfer of responsibility for our oil and gas resources to the Scottish Parliament”.
Mr Salmond believes that Scotland would become one of the richest countries in the world if it had control over oil revenues.
The value of the North Sea industry to the UK economy was highlighted by the recent strike at the Grangemouth refinery. The closure of Forties pipeline, which delivers 30 per cent of Britain’s daily oil output, cost around £50million per day.
The Scottish Government source added: “The Grangemouth situation dramatically illustrated the millions of pounds of revenues that flow through the Forties pipeline every day – and just how dependent the Treasury is on Scotland’s oil.
“It’s high time the Scottish Government had access to a share of the tax revenue, so that we can secure a long term benefit for Scotland.”
Last year Mr Salmond was involved in a war of words with Westminster at the Offshore Europe exhibition in Aberdeen.
Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said it was “too important” an industry to hand over control.
But Mr Salmond hit back: “It’s not his oil, it’s Scotland’s oil and I think the vast majority of people want to see the Scottish people have a share and access to this enormous natural resource.
“Why on earth shouldn’t the people of Scotland have a say on the direction of the oil industry?
“If all of Scotland’s resources are included in our national accounts – including North Sea oil – then we would be the third richest nation in the European Union in terms of wealth per head, compared to the UK’s current seventh place.
“It is very clear the flow of resources between Scotland and England is from north to south – not the other way round.”
Original UK government proposals to create a special North Sea Oil Fund for Scotland were abandoned 30 years ago over fears it would fuel a surge in SNP popularity.
Archives of a discussion in 1977 show divisions in the Cabinet and a war of words between Chancellor Denis Healey and Energy Secretary Tony Benn, who tabled the proposal.
A fund would have transferred taxes from oil production to Scotland, and would have transformed the economy. But Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan feared a strong Scotland, and a resurgent SNP, sparking a new desire for independence.
The documents, revealed under the 30 year rule in 2005, included a minute in which Healey listed his objections. It concluded: “Above all the creation of an oil fund would play into the hands of the Scottish Nationalists for whom it would become a major political target.”
After the documents were made public Mr Salmond said: “These papers are proof positive of the bad faith of successive UK Governments – Labour and Tory – in depriving Scotland of access to our own North Sea resources for nakedly political purposes.”
The Scotland Office yesterday accused Mr Salmond of “revisiting old arguments”. A spokesman said: “We believe that the strongest position for Scotland and the Scottish people and for Great Britain is a strong union. ??? :-)
SALMOND: TIME TO TAKE BACK OIL.
Sunday May 4,2008
By Mark Stevenson
ALEX Salmond will this week take the first steps in an audacious bid to seize control of North Sea oil from Westminster.
The First Minister has already met with senior aides to discuss the controversial battle plan to shift energy powers to Holyrood.
Sources say now is the optimum time to strike at London with Gordon Brown’s government in disarray following the Prime Minister’s worst week since taking office.
The Scottish Sunday Express can reveal Finance Secretary John Swinney will fire the opening shot by writing to Chancellor Alistair Darling to demand an immediate increase in the share of oil revenue.
It is estimated North Sea oil will be worth around £56billion to the UK economy over the next six years.
A source close to the First Minister said last night: “Gordon Brown’s difficulty is Scotland’s opportunity. The Scottish Government will be stepping up our efforts to secure fair access for Scotland to our own North Sea revenues.
“And in his present enfeebled political position the Prime Minister is in no position to say ‘No’.”
Before the Holyrood election, the SNP pledged to make it an early priority to begin discussions with Westminster on “options for the transfer of responsibility for our oil and gas resources to the Scottish Parliament”.
Mr Salmond believes that Scotland would become one of the richest countries in the world if it had control over oil revenues.
The value of the North Sea industry to the UK economy was highlighted by the recent strike at the Grangemouth refinery. The closure of Forties pipeline, which delivers 30 per cent of Britain’s daily oil output, cost around £50million per day.
The Scottish Government source added: “The Grangemouth situation dramatically illustrated the millions of pounds of revenues that flow through the Forties pipeline every day – and just how dependent the Treasury is on Scotland’s oil.
“It’s high time the Scottish Government had access to a share of the tax revenue, so that we can secure a long term benefit for Scotland.”
Last year Mr Salmond was involved in a war of words with Westminster at the Offshore Europe exhibition in Aberdeen.
Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said it was “too important” an industry to hand over control.
But Mr Salmond hit back: “It’s not his oil, it’s Scotland’s oil and I think the vast majority of people want to see the Scottish people have a share and access to this enormous natural resource.
“Why on earth shouldn’t the people of Scotland have a say on the direction of the oil industry?
“If all of Scotland’s resources are included in our national accounts – including North Sea oil – then we would be the third richest nation in the European Union in terms of wealth per head, compared to the UK’s current seventh place.
“It is very clear the flow of resources between Scotland and England is from north to south – not the other way round.”
Original UK government proposals to create a special North Sea Oil Fund for Scotland were abandoned 30 years ago over fears it would fuel a surge in SNP popularity.
Archives of a discussion in 1977 show divisions in the Cabinet and a war of words between Chancellor Denis Healey and Energy Secretary Tony Benn, who tabled the proposal.
A fund would have transferred taxes from oil production to Scotland, and would have transformed the economy. But Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan feared a strong Scotland, and a resurgent SNP, sparking a new desire for independence.
The documents, revealed under the 30 year rule in 2005, included a minute in which Healey listed his objections. It concluded: “Above all the creation of an oil fund would play into the hands of the Scottish Nationalists for whom it would become a major political target.”
After the documents were made public Mr Salmond said: “These papers are proof positive of the bad faith of successive UK Governments – Labour and Tory – in depriving Scotland of access to our own North Sea resources for nakedly political purposes.”
The Scotland Office yesterday accused Mr Salmond of “revisiting old arguments”. A spokesman said: “We believe that the strongest position for Scotland and the Scottish people and for Great Britain is a strong union. ??? :-)
Posted by: Peter, Aberdeenshire on 7:42pm Sun 4 May 08
Flicking through a relatives Sunday Mail which I refuse to buy due to it's Labour promoting rubbish, a report that Brown and Alexander are set to call Salmonds bluff and back a referendum. They believe this will stem the rising support for independence, so there you have it, the two most useless discredited politicians plotting to stifle the wishes of the people of Scotland. They though are too stupid to see that they will never manage to make me and many others stop wishing for self rule for Scotland.How do they propose to stop the rising support in England for the break up of the union due to the perceived preferential subsidy to Scotland by many in England?
Flicking through a relatives Sunday Mail which I refuse to buy due to it's Labour promoting rubbish, a report that Brown and Alexander are set to call Salmonds bluff and back a referendum. They believe this will stem the rising support for independence, so there you have it, the two most useless discredited politicians plotting to stifle the wishes of the people of Scotland. They though are too stupid to see that they will never manage to make me and many others stop wishing for self rule for Scotland.How do they propose to stop the rising support in England for the break up of the union due to the perceived preferential subsidy to Scotland by many in England?
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 7:43pm Sun 4 May 08
It is scandalous to think that even after conceding the rebel MPs' arguments about the 10p tax rate, the Treasury were still prevaricating who should get it and whether it should be backdated. Devious ot what? These are the people whom the SNP have to deal with in Scotland.
It is scandalous to think that even after conceding the rebel MPs' arguments about the 10p tax rate, the Treasury were still prevaricating who should get it and whether it should be backdated. Devious ot what? These are the people whom the SNP have to deal with in Scotland.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 8:06pm Sun 4 May 08
Methinks old Frank Field has been sold a pup by Brown and Darling.
The deal seems to be some winter heating money for the coffin dodgers and increasing minimum wage for youngsters (which will cost government nothing). Duplicitous or what?
Methinks old Frank Field has been sold a pup by Brown and Darling.
The deal seems to be some winter heating money for the coffin dodgers and increasing minimum wage for youngsters (which will cost government nothing). Duplicitous or what?
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