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October 08, 2008 Est 1999 Scotland's award-winning independent newspaper
The great PFI swindle
Allowing private companies to build and run schools and hospitals for profit has been controversial from the start. Now, though, the true cost of the Private Finance Initiative and the scandalous profits being made by businesses is finally revealed. As investigated by Rob Edwards

LOCAL AUTHORITIES, health trusts and other public agencies will end up paying up to twice as much as is necessary for the 700 developments planned or built under the UK government's Private Finance Initiative (PFI).

And private companies could pocket up to £50 billion in profits from investing in schools, hospitals and other public building projects through the scheme, an investigation by the Sunday Herald has revealed.

The revelations, based on tens of thousands of pages released under freedom of information laws, have confirmed critics' worst fears. They say PFI has turned out to be "a huge scam", "a total taxpayer rip-off" and "a cynical accounting fiddle".

Internal financial projections for six PFI schemes show investors are expecting to recoup 12 times more than they invested. In some cases shareholders are predicted to make truly astronomical gains.

Equity of just £100 invested in rebuilding Hairmyres Hospital in East Kilbride is projected to earn £89 million in dividends over 30 years, while half a million pounds of equity in the new Edinburgh Royal Infirmary is expected to win dividends of £168m.

PFI was introduced under the Conservative prime minister, John Major, in 1992 and later pursued by Gordon Brown after he became chancellor in 1997. It was designed as a way of injecting private capital into public projects in an attempt to get debts off the Treasury's books.

The idea was that capital would be raised on the private market to fund developments that would then be built and run by private firms. Although the projects would cost public authorities little up-front, they would then have to pay for them in instalments over the next 25 or 30 years.

Despite the fact PFI has delivered hundreds of new hospitals, schools, sewage works and roads across the country, it has provoked a prolonged storm of controversy. But until now, there has been little hard information on which to judge the schemes because they have been shrouded in commercial secrecy.

A series of recent requests under freedom of information legislation has, however, begun to lift the lid. For the first time the detailed analyses done for the backers of six PFI schemes, five in Scotland and one in England, have been released.

The resulting piles of paperwork have been studied over the last year by economists Jim and Margaret Cuthbert. Jim is a former chief statistician with the Scottish Office, while Margaret was an academic at three Scottish universities. Now the husband-and-wife team run their own consultancy in Edinburgh.

Using investors' own projections, the Cuthberts have calculated how much profit was predicted from the six schemes. As well as the new Edinburgh and Hairmyres hospitals, they included the James Watt College campus in Kilwinning, 11 Highland schools, new Perth and Kinross Council offices and County Hospital in Hereford.

After stripping out the payments made for servicing the buildings and the normal commercial lending by major banks, the couple uncovered what they describe as "eye-catching" returns. They have submitted their findings to the investigation into the funding of capital projects being carried out by the Scottish parliament's finance committee.

Overall, the Cuthberts found that £42m of "subordinate debt" invested by the companies building the six schemes was predicted to yield £517m. Included in that, the profits on the £717,297 put in as equity by shareholders were projected to reach £350m.

They calculated that the internal rate of return being earned by investors varied from 17% to 23% on debts that were often more than double the capital invested. Even when the profits were converted to reflect the effects of possible future inflation, they look very healthy.

What's more, the Cuthberts' calculations suggest the projects are very poor value for money. The Edinburgh Infirmary, Hairmyres and James Watt College could all have been built for half the cost if the money had been borrowed in the normal way from the government's national loan fund, they say, and huge savings could have also been made on the Highland schools, the Perth offices and the Hereford hospital.

"What this suggests about the costs of PFI is extremely worrying," said Jim Cuthbert. "No country, whether it be Scotland or the UK as a whole, could long support funding its major public infrastructure on a one-for-the-price-of-two' basis.

"There has clearly been a systemic failure in the existing mechanisms designed to secure value for money from PFI schemes."

Detailed financial information on the vast majority of the 700-plus PFI schemes agreed across the UK is still confidential. But if their projected profits were only a proportion of those from the six schemes on which data is available, they could reach a massive £50bn.

On similar assumptions, the profit from more than 60 completed PFI projects in Scotland alone could rise to more than £5bn.

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Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:23pm Sat 17 May 08
No wonder Maggie Thatcher went to visit Maggie Brown at No.10. She must be truly amazed at what he has achieved. Never in her wildest dreams did she envisage such a scam of public money.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:25pm Sat 17 May 08
And the opposition parties say the SNP's Scottish Future's Trust vehicle is dead in the water...... if ever there was a need for an alternative to PFI then Rob Edwards has exposed here for all to see.

Time for the opposition parties to get behind the SNP's initiative and back it's introduction this year.

Labour should be ashamed of their mortgage culture mentality., they've bought Iron Broon's 'prudence' spin hook line a sinker....... now we are ALL saddled with this around our neck like it or not.

Substandard Schools & other Public Facilities and a 30 year debt.





Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 11:27pm Sat 17 May 08
Wakey, wakey West of Scotland people, your Labour politicians have been selling the country down the river and its time to wake up. Wonder how many Labour politicians have benefited from this either through donations, consultancies or directorships?
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:29pm Sat 17 May 08

very poor value for money


Time for the Labour Party to put their hand up. and accept that they have not served the public purse competently.

Posted by: wee folding bike on 11:30pm Sat 17 May 08
Even without the information being released it should have been obvious to anyone that an extra layer of profit was being taken out and the cash for that could only come from one place.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:30pm Sat 17 May 08

£50 BILLION

Breathtaking
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:33pm Sat 17 May 08
Why should we be saddle with it Wardog. Pass legislation to scrap these contracts as against the public interest. In effect Labour de-Nationalised these Schools and Hospitals. They need to be re-Nationalised. (Never thought I'd be saying that)
Posted by: Jimbo on 11:37pm Sat 17 May 08
This only confirms what the SNP have stated all along and what they have fought so hard to to abolish.

Just a few weeks ago we had Andy Kerr telling us that the SNP's Scottish Futures Trust was a red herring and that the best value for money was PFI/PPP. He would have us believe that a private company ripping off our money is better value than a not for profit organisation.

Is he naive or is there something he is not telling us/does not want to/can't divulge?

Large donations perhaps?

Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 11:39pm Sat 17 May 08
Wardog, there is as much chance of the Labour party holding their hands up as ….. well, we all know that they are rotten to the core it’s just waiting for the rest of Scotland to wake up to the fact.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:45pm Sat 17 May 08
First Maggie Thatcher started the culture that public services should be forced to make profits. Result: job losses and cuts in services, cutting of maintenance leading to run-down and dilapidated buildings. All in order to make profits.
Maggie Brown comes along and instead of the profits being ploughed back into providing better services, he condones them being syphoned off by Financial Institutions and Speculators. No wonder Blair is getting 100k from a Bank for doing nothing. No wonder Brown couldn't give a ****. His future is well secured.
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 11:46pm Sat 17 May 08
Either the previous Labour/Liberal-Democ

rat Executive were collectively as thick as two short planks or they were criminally incompetent - stealing from the public purse with no fear of retribution! I leave it to you to decide - CRIMINALLY STUPID or just plain CRIMINALS!
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 11:52pm Sat 17 May 08
Could I make a request to the SNP councillors in East Kilbride for one of them to write to the East Kilbride News informing its readers of this scam. I feel that the editor will filter out this type of letter unless it is written by someone who can't be ignored.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:02am Sun 18 May 08
Im no really here wrote:
Why should we be saddle with it Wardog. Pass legislation to scrap these contracts as against the public interest. In effect Labour de-Nationalised these Schools and Hospitals. They need to be re-Nationalised. (Never thought I\'d be saying that)
Not sure if these contracts can be opened up again although if they can they should certainly be reviewed as you suggest Inrh.

I suspect most are written to trigger huge payoffs if scrapped or conditions tampered with.

That's an indication of just how bad they are, totally one sided and constructed to bring in the readies for the private sector. whilst they provide minimum upfront capital and sub standard space requirements and quality finishes so as to minimise their out goings over the 30 year period.

Utter Shambles


Nevermind the labour party are revolting.

Wendy Alexander loses support of party
www.timesonline.co.u

k/tol/news/uk/scotla

nd/article3953986.ec

e
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 12:08am Sun 18 May 08
Balls must roll for this, the guilty must pay.

Kent,
I'm with you there, names have to be published and if they are slab blab members then prosecutions must follow

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:15am Sun 18 May 08
Jimbo wrote:
This only confirms what the SNP have stated all along and what they have fought so hard to to abolish.

Just a few weeks ago we had Andy Kerr telling us that the SNP's Scottish Futures Trust was a red herring and that the best value for money was PFI/PPP. He would have us believe that a private company ripping off our money is better value than a not for profit organisation.

Is he naive or is there something he is not telling us/does not want to/can't divulge?

Large donations perhaps?


Andy Kerr seems to have a track record of backing the wrong horse.

Anyone would think he's in the pocket of bug business and consultants.

Iain Machwirter on the other article rightly points out the benefits of the bon issuing vehicle proposed by the SNP but which falls down on the current fiscal competencies of the Scottish Parliament.

Even a non for profit company vehicle system would be better than PFI and although not perfect by any means would be a decent staging post for introduction of the full Scottish Futures Trust next year....... after independence.

It's Time

Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 12:19am Sun 18 May 08
What about this one Wardog.
http://business.time
sonline.co.uk/tol/bu
siness/industry_sect
ors/natural_resource
s/article3954031.ece

Where is AM2 when you need him???
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:27am Sun 18 May 08
Im no really here, but over there on 12:19am today

Nice one, ta

Yeah, I noticed AM2 had posted his list of 'union benefits' on the Herald website sometime last week.....pathetic trolling

Labour are heading for the 2011 Holyrood Elections on the following platform set b the SNP's agenda.

Labour support PFI
Labour support the Council Tax & are against LIT
Labour refuse to support ending Right to Buy
Labour refuse to support Holyrood re: Attendance Allowance
Labour refuse to support scrapping the Endowment Fee
Labour refuse to endorse the Concordat

They've fell out of favour with their own Local Councils, those that are left after the mauling they got in the Council Elections and subsequent coalition formations and if Wendy is removed.

They will have voted to refuse the Scottish people a voice on their future in an referendum ......

Bring it on indeed!




Posted by: Jimbo on 12:36am Sun 18 May 08
Im no really here, but over there on 12:19am today

Hi INRH

Good link, ta very much. I've just Emailed it to everyone I know asking them to pass it on. We can't depend on the Scottish(?) press to do it. We need to get this out to all Scots.

OIL WOULD MAKE INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND RICH

Here's a shorter link....

tinyurl.com/6dha2o
Posted by: Kenny McGuigan, Coatbridge on 12:49am Sun 18 May 08
When Lanarkshire Health Board Trust opted to close the children's ward at Monklands Hospital a few years ago, a group of us (led by local campaigner Gordon Martin) secured a meeting with the Trust to discuss the reasons and the implications.

The PFI issue was raised and the ignorance of the workings of this financial arrangement ranged from a doctor who knew nothing about PFI to the Chairman and PR (trade union official/influential Labour Party member) Officer unconditionally defending it - explaining it was great value for money.

However, it was also stressed by the Trust that PFI had no bearing whatsoever on the closure of the chilren's unit. We predicted it would be a disaster, that the private companies would fleece the NHS, that they would own the hospitals which were to be leased back and that PFI built hospitals would, by neccessity, take preference over Monklands NHS hospital, because the fees to the private sector would require to be paid whether patients used the PFI hospital or not.

When the widely known consultation took place on the proposal to close the A&E at Monklands, the Trust again stressed PFI played no part in its decision. In fact at public meeting after public meeting they ridiculed the idea that PFI played any part. The subsequent inquiry found PFI to be one of the major factors for the proposed closure in the subsequent inquiry and the Trust belatedly acknowledged this. But the disappointing thing was that papers were in existence making it clear PFI was one of the main reasons for the entire planning across NHS Lanarkshire.

Now we see from today's excellent report the extent of the plundering of public funds by the profiteers while the NHS stumbles from crisis to crisis.

The solution is to pass a bill in parliament enabling the claiming back of these public services with no compensation to the shareholders.
Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 12:55am Sun 18 May 08
Jimbo at 12.36am stated:

OIL WOULD MAKE INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND RICH

Reminds me of a Proclaimers song:

I could tell the meaning of a word like serene
I got some 'O' Grades when I was sixteen
I can tell the difference between magarine and butter
I can say "Saskatchewan" without starting to stutter

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land
We're Cap in Hand

I could get a broken jaw from being in a fight
I know its evening when day turns to night
I can understand why Stranraer lie so lowly
They could save a lot of points by signing Hibs Goalie

But I can't understand why we let someone else rule our land
We're Cap in Hand

We fight - when they ask us
We boast - then we cower
We beg
For a piece of
Whats already ours


Once I thought I could make God a bribe
So I said I was in his lost tribe
Getting handouts can be so frustrating
"Get in line son, there's five million waiting"

I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land
You're Cap In Hand.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:05am Sun 18 May 08
Kent, Edinburgh on 12:55am today

Just listening to that earlier today Kent, good call!

Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 1:18am Sun 18 May 08
This makes me so very angry, especially afte al the guff that Labour and Andy Kerr specifically stated in support of PFI
Labour have stitched Scotland up!
I will never support them again. God help them if any Labour candidate comes to my door wanting my vote!
Posted by: livilion, livingston on 1:38am Sun 18 May 08
Buy what you want, no deposit and pay forever.

These PPP/PFI projects have a reputation for inferior quality materials and workmanship.

In anycase what was the plan for when these buildings have to be pulled down again in 20-30years(if we're lucky)and replaced when we'll have still only gotten as far as payiong off the interest on the initial loan. Get another credit card to pay off the first card?

My old granny knew better than get into that kind of miserable cycle.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:45am Sun 18 May 08
Brown envelopes? Na - fecking duffle bags!
Posted by: Snarler Barr, Tollcross, Edinburgh on 1:48am Sun 18 May 08
Sorry to break the harsh reality to you, but without healthy returns, investors would not have been interested in putting down their money for 20-30 years, and these facilities would not have been built. At the end of the day, more people are still alive because of these PFI investments.

What I'm not sure I understand, however, is what Rob Edwards is actually contributing to this debate, as he is just repeating what he has been told by Jim and Margaret Cuthbert, and has not considered the broader rationale for the government to do this.

Essentially, the political decision was taken that it was better to get it built now, than to delay and pay additional costs of construction (due to expected input-cost inflation), financing (due to the bursting of the credit bubble), and lack of alternative services (i.e. people dying due to lack of altenrative services).

This is the level of analysis which the Sunday Herald should be providing, not merely a rehash of a one-sided, politically-motivate
d research paper. For a start, it would be useful to know how much independent analysis has been done on this subject by other economists, preferably with links to the relevant sources included in this article.
Posted by: doonhamer on 1:59am Sun 18 May 08
Im no really here wrote:
Why should we be saddle with it Wardog. Pass legislation to scrap these contracts as against the public interest. In effect Labour de-Nationalised these Schools and Hospitals. They need to be re-Nationalised. (Never thought I'd be saying that)
I totally agree. The only legitimate way to deal with this is to cancel the contracts and award the companies the same interest that they would get if this was a publicly funded initiative. They would still get a return on their investment just not windfall for decades.

The interests of the Scottish taxpayers must come first.

Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 2:03am Sun 18 May 08
Snarler Barr, Tollcross, Edinburgh on 1:48am today wrote:

Crap!


Yer a wee apologist for the ugly face of capitalism meets political corruption. How much are you making?
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 2:27am Sun 18 May 08
Snarler Bar said:
but without healthy returns


You should work in comedy.
Posted by: alan reid, NZ on 4:37am Sun 18 May 08
Come on AM please tell us how the SNP is wrong on this one.

Unionits scum again exposed ripping off Scotland, thank Christ we now have the SNP in power.
Posted by: Alan on 5:01am Sun 18 May 08
LIEBOUR, LIEBOUR and LIEBOUR again.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 5:20am Sun 18 May 08
Snarler Barr wrote:
Sorry to break the harsh reality to you, but without healthy returns, investors would not have been interested in putting down their money for 20-30 years, and these facilities would not have been built. At the end of the day, more people are still alive because of these PFI investments. What I'm not sure I understand, however, is what Rob Edwards is actually contributing to this debate, as he is just repeating what he has been told by Jim and Margaret Cuthbert, and has not considered the broader rationale for the government to do this. Essentially, the political decision was taken that it was better to get it built now, than to delay and pay additional costs of construction (due to expected input-cost inflation), financing (due to the bursting of the credit bubble), and lack of alternative services (i.e. people dying due to lack of altenrative services). This is the level of analysis which the Sunday Herald should be providing, not merely a rehash of a one-sided, politically-motivate d research paper. For a start, it would be useful to know how much independent analysis has been done on this subject by other economists, preferably with links to the relevant sources included in this article.
Funny how the SNP government can build a hospital without being ripped off, but Labour can't?

Could it be, Snarler, that you are one of the people gaining from this? It seems to me, as an ordinary man in the street, that corruption is rife in PFI. The Government should investigate this and find out why contracts were awarded, to whom they were awarded and who is set to gain.
Posted by: Tam, glasgow on 7:34am Sun 18 May 08
Just one big con from day one. Who loses out more than anybody else? Aye, the poor. As for the shareholders and so on - who really are there. How many are connected to politicians and so on?

"The interest of the taxpayer must come first"? Just a silly phrase. WHEN did that ever happen? Think of the likes of Gorbals Mick.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 7:35am Sun 18 May 08
Snarler,

At the end of the day, more people are still alive because of these PFI investments.


PFI will suck more money out of the system than other methods of building hospitals. PFI deals elsewhere in N Lanarkshire were behind the plan to close A&E in Monklands.

How does this keep people alive?
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Bay of Bengal (still) on 7:42am Sun 18 May 08
You can just imagine Snarler going into his PFI financed local.

"Pint of special, please".

"Certainly, sir, that will be 15 quid".

"15 quid?"

"Yep, but you can have the pint straight away. Mind you, you can't drink it and you will have to hand it back when you leave. And don't spill any because I'll have to charge you 20 quid to clean up".

"Whit! You must think ma heid zips up the back?"

"Yep".
Posted by: robert, Glasgow on 7:48am Sun 18 May 08
I take it the great defender of PFI, desk thumping moron Andy Kerr wasnt available for comment. Gone into hiding under his stone.
Posted by: jumbos, Edinburger on 8:28am Sun 18 May 08
If we want this to end then the UK government needs to opt put of the GAT 2000 trade agreement which allows government/state assets to be sold off to private companies. This is why we have been getting stories about attempts to seel off the post office. If we want the country to run then some things need to be beyond financial markets and profit.
Posted by: Bruce on 9:45am Sun 18 May 08
Snarler, you can try and dress it up any way you like and ask all sorts of questions. From day 1 of PFI even I knew what a rip off it was.

Don't, please don't give us that old lie that government hasn't got the money to do it. Of course it has. It can spend billions and billions on anything it pleases to do. Such as weapons, propping up banks, wars. It's only money, money the government can print if it chooses.

Building schools, hospitals etc etc is not like running businesses, or making cars: it's simply putting government money into government facilities. That simplicity stinks to the capitalist, who needs complicated smoke and mirrors to extract as many pennies as they can from the system before they snuff it.

At the end of the day, that's all it boils down to.

Posted by: Derek Enmery, Midlands UK on 9:53am Sun 18 May 08
Another nail in the coffin for New Labour. There's no sign of the slightest degree of financial governance or probity by New Labour. We should be able to expect this as a given from government spending our money.
Posted by: Chris on 10:25am Sun 18 May 08
PFI is, of course, a Tory policy, which was continued by this thinly-disguised Thatcherite government.

Private Eye has been running PFI stories for many years, but congratulations to the Sunday Herald for finally splashing with today's articles.
Posted by: Scott, Inverness on 10:40am Sun 18 May 08
I said last May when the SNP were in Goverment a lot of things would come out and PFI is only the start,PFI was used so it did not show up as borrowing by Prudence Brown's Treasury.I think we need an investigation into all the companies who got thes contracts and the people who invested in them its all to easy for someone to use third parties to keep thier names hidden.
Posted by: Shirley Hodge, Glasgow on 10:58am Sun 18 May 08
There is a solution of course, shut the agency down, allow for a reasonable return as set by the courts on investment and place the institutions in government hands once and for all. There is no reason to let such a situation continue now that it is found out. Innocent investors, if there is such a thing, get real, they knew going in that it was a great vehicle for opening the government coffers and scooping up whatever they wanted and just because the politicians who were party to this scam were themselves either scammed or too stupid to understand the rammifications and outcome (I lean towards stupid) is no reason to let the miscreants continue to get away with it. Tell me what is the difference between the 'investors' in PFI and the 'crooks' that sunk Northern Rock in their mad dash for greedy profits. Answer: NOTHING. How long do we let this go on?
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 11:02am Sun 18 May 08
> but without healthy returns,
17% a year for 30 years guaranteed is not healthy

> investors would not have been interested in putting down their money for 20-30 years
Governments can raise money without any difficulty at the lowest rates going

Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:10am Sun 18 May 08
Waste and delays in the public sector ownership would be worse than PFI profit leak - look at Tunbridge Wells.
Posted by: Observer on 1:40pm Sun 18 May 08
Colin local authorities are accountable to their voters, and how much more so now that we have PR and Labour's hegemony is finally being breached. This is not news, Trade Unions have been campaigining against PFI for years.
Posted by: Wullie on 1:56pm Sun 18 May 08
Only now after 10 years of the the Great Plunder is it coming out that PFI is a bad deal.

Expensive finance, collusive tendering to facillitate increased construction prices, all wrapped up with cheap building designs and specifications.

Yes the people will be paying for a long time what Labour have sowed. Like the gerry built council house of the 60's ( Hutchie E et al) our future generations will have the PFI legacy to deal with.

And we wonder why developers give bungs to Labour?
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 4:19pm Sun 18 May 08
We should now expect the BBC to have a full discussion about this with all interested parties involved. Particularly Andy Kerr.

We could have had two Hairmyres hospitals for the price of one, and to think that the cash being siphoned off by PFI was the main motivation for wanting to close down A&E departments.
Posted by: Wattie, Renfrew. on 4:44pm Sun 18 May 08
I imagine that, after these revelations, ther will be no further PFI contracts entered into by Government.
As I say: I imagine.
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 8:13pm Sun 18 May 08
Wattie, Renfrew said:



I imagine that, after these revelations there will be no more further PFI contracts entered into by Government.
As I say: I imagine.



Would that be the Scottish government you were referring to, then?

Aye imagination is a good thing to have, especially if it can be transformed into practical purpose which produces a better way of doing things at point of use.

But I fear for the English communities if Brown and his privateers have their way.

Local super duper medical centres is the latest scam involving a re branding of PFI.

The medicos are no very happy about it, that's for sure. Well they're educated folk, you'll understand and not as apathetic as some. They're not of the mindset of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Thank Christ for the protection the Scottish parliament affords us from the likes of Brown and his cabal of carpetbagging privateers.

Who was it that said," give me ten years and you won't recognise this country"?

Aye, that's the trouble with control freaks and their, for the most part, broken promises and self serving and self preservative, news-speak propaganda.

Never wish what they wish for. Some of their promises just might become true.

.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, PFI - a cheat's charter on 11:29pm Sun 18 May 08
OFT - has showed how the PFI / PPP deals were over priced from the start (initial business case) in the bidding scam by preferred bidders in their recent report.

Research shows the the initial business case on which the PFI contract is agreed will cost escalate by between 30 and 200% at the final business case and by a minimum of a further 30% by completion. In bald figures a £100 million PFI project will actually cost the health board or education board £170 million on hand over for lease back. That is they are paying back on a capital cost of £170 million when they budgeted for £100 million.

The classic example of failing PFI hospitals are the ERI which is already suffering fabric failure to go along with all its design failings. The impact of PFI on Health Board budgets could not be more clear given North Lanarkshire's need to close Monklands A&E and run down other services at the hospital.

Another gem of PFI contracting is the example of the new Kirkcudbright Primary School which will not be fit for purpose on the day it opens as it will be overcrowded due to lack of appropriate classroom space and the central communal area will have to be turned into a classroom.
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 2:41am Tue 20 May 08
Snarler Barr, Tollcross, Edinburgh says, " Rob Edwards is just repeating what he has been told by Jim and Margaret Cuthbert, and has not considered the broader rationale for the government to do this. Essentially, the political decision was taken that it was better to get it built now, than to delay and pay additional costs of construction (due to expected input-cost inflation), financing (due to the bursting of the credit bubble), and lack of alternative services (i.e. people dying due to lack of altenrative services)".

What ARE you talking about, "(due to expected input-cost inflation)" that applies whether public OR privately financed!
"(due to the bursting of the credit bubble)" This was dreamt up long before any credit bubble burst.!!
"(i.e. people dying due to lack of alternative services)". WHICH people dying?? due to lack of WHAT alternative services??

I have never heard such tosh in my life, and could only come from a Unionist with their usual weak arguments or just blatant lies!!
NEW LABOUR....."Dead men walking"!!!!!
Posted by: QOFB, Edinburgh on 9:44pm Wed 21 May 08
Information about Edinburgh council's repayments under PPP, up to 2039, is there for all to see on its website: £468,025,000 for the first phase and £717,199,000 for the second... and that's only for schools etc.

The second phase was agreed in April 2007.

Look it up in the edinburgh.gov website: 25th October 2007 Report-Audited Accounts 2006-07

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