Tory candidate calls racist Rhodesian leader ‘a hero’ Calls for Conservative leader to condemn prospective North Ayrshire and Arran MP DAVID CAMERON has been called on to condemn a
Scottish Conservative candidate who praised the racist former leader of Rhodesia and defended Enoch Powell.
Philip Lardner, the party's Westminster candidate in North Ayrshire and Arran, named Ian Smith, who was regarded a white supremacist, as his political hero. He also said that Powell's far-right warnings about immigration had "in a small way come true".
Cameron has made it clear since becoming Tory leader that he will not tolerate extremism from party candidates.
Nigel Hastilow stood down as a candidate for Halesowen & Rowley Regis last year after claiming many people thought the late Enoch Powell "was right" to warn about immigration in his 1968 "rivers of blood" speech.
Now Lardner has increased the pressure on Cameron by reeling off his list of idols on a Conservative website.
Asked to name his political hero, Lardner is quoted as saying: "Maybe Ian Smith (Rhodesia), Sir Francis Drake, Sir Winston Churchill or Maggie, who knows?"
Smith, after issuing a unilateral declaration of independence from the UK in 1965, served as the prime minister of Rhodesia until 1979 as part of white minority rule.
He presided over a regime where whites comprised around 5% of the population, but mustered 95% of the votes in national elections.
His 14 years in charge were marked by civil war, economic sanctions and international condemnation, a spell that ushered in the election of Robert Mugabe as prime minister of the renamed Zimbabwe in 1980.
Smith died in November last year.
In an interview with the Sunday Herald, Lardner, a primary school teacher, expanded on his views.
"Ian Smith typified a British hero who came from the Empire and fought for his country. I met him in 1998 and got to shake his hand. I am confident Ian Smith was a good man. You stand by your friends."
Asked whether he considered Smith to be racist, Lardner said: "He brokered several deals for gradual change to majority rule."
The 41-year-old Scot also attacked immigration to the UK: "There are 400 million people in the EU who now have the legal right to settle in Britain. I don't understand how any sovereign country can cope with that. It doesn't make sense to flood a small island with people."
On Powell, who was sacked from the Tory shadow cabinet in 1968 for an anti-immigration speech, Larnder said: "Essentially, what Enoch Powell said has in a small way come true."
The Scottish Tory candidate is also a member of Better Off Out, an anti-EU organisation, and the Rhodesian Christian Group.
On the late Conservative prime minister Edward Heath, who negotiated the UK's entry into the European Economic Community in the early-1970s, Lardner said: "Edward Heath was a Tory but to me he was a rat. He lied about the EEC in terms of its effect on sovereignty."
His interest in Rhodesian politics first became evident in a letter published in the Herald in 2005, in which he stated: "Take a look at Zimbabwe or a dozen other human-induced African disasters and ask yourself whether the average African would rather be living (or more often than not dying) at the hands of his "free" African brothers, or have a Royal Navy warship sitting benevolently in the harbour?"
A Tory candidate at last year's Holyrood poll, he is contesting the North Ayrshire and Arran seat for the Conservatives at the next general election
Scotland Office Minister David Cairns said: "These comments are utterly disgraceful. Talk of flooding is highly inflammatory and David Cameron must immediately and publicly disown the words of his official candidate in North Ayrshire.
"At a time of acute sensitivity in Zimbabwe, for an official Tory spokesperson to invoke the language of Empire plays right into the disreputable hands of Robert Mugabe."
Katy Clark, Labour MP for Ayrshire North and Arran, said: "Ian Smith was a supporter of white supremacy and worked hard to try to stop black people getting the vote. I hope these comments will make North Ayrshire and Arran Conservative Party reassess whether this man is a fit person to be their candidate at the next general election."
A spokesman for the Scottish Liberal Democrats said: "Mr Lardner's comments are as wrong as they are outrageous. There is no way that views like this have a place in modern Scotland, and the Scottish Conservatives must distance themselves from him and his views."
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Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 12:22am Sun 22 Jun 08
You can be your bottom dollar that if Ian Smith had been honoured by Edinburgh Uni, his honour would have been pulled 10 times quicker than the have done with Uncle Bob - who has just confirmed that he will never accept the coming vote if it goes against him.
This, by-the-way is the person responsible for the "civil war, economic sanctions and international condemnation" against Ian Smith. At least, when Ian Smith was in control, there was no such thing as a starving Rhodesian.
Come on now, where are all you protesters parading in the high streets against the Human Rights abuses perpetrated by the Racist Black Minority rulers in Zimbabwe???
You can be your bottom dollar that if Ian Smith had been honoured by Edinburgh Uni, his honour would have been pulled 10 times quicker than the have done with Uncle Bob - who has just confirmed that he will never accept the coming vote if it goes against him.
This, by-the-way is the person responsible for the "civil war, economic sanctions and international condemnation" against Ian Smith. At least, when Ian Smith was in control, there was no such thing as a starving Rhodesian.
Come on now, where are all you protesters parading in the high streets against the Human Rights abuses perpetrated by the Racist Black Minority rulers in Zimbabwe???
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 12:46am Sun 22 Jun 08
Philip, I despise your politics, but I admire your guts in going against the "prevailing tide" when it comes to Ian Smith - I agree he was no racist, and if given the chance would probably been able to introduce majority rule - but he was always going to be stitched up by the hypocrites on the left, who can only see black = good white = evil, and ditched by his so-called pals in your party. Don't forget, he was having to fight the real racists within his party, the Soviet funded insurgents and the disgraceful economic sanctions imposed by a hypocritical world all at the same time.
And yes, you were naive to trust any journalist and Labour politician - lies are second nature to them, but I would watch your back with the mob you're in too
Philip, I despise your politics, but I admire your guts in going against the "prevailing tide" when it comes to Ian Smith - I agree he was no racist, and if given the chance would probably been able to introduce majority rule - but he was always going to be stitched up by the hypocrites on the left, who can only see black = good white = evil, and ditched by his so-called pals in your party. Don't forget, he was having to fight the real racists within his party, the Soviet funded insurgents and the disgraceful economic sanctions imposed by a hypocritical world all at the same time.
And yes, you were naive to trust any journalist and Labour politician - lies are second nature to them, but I would watch your back with the mob you're in too
Posted by: Plobotsky on 12:51am Sun 22 Jun 08
Philip - I've read the reporter's story and your account of what occurred and I really don't see what you've got to complain about.
The Tory party is in a pretty poor state, though, if PPCs can't or won't access advice on handling something like this.
Philip - I've read the reporter's story and your account of what occurred and I really don't see what you've got to complain about.
The Tory party is in a pretty poor state, though, if PPCs can't or won't access advice on handling something like this.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 12:54am Sun 22 Jun 08
Thank you Philip for your post. Of course, all the Media consider Ian Smith a racist, but never mention his WWII record - where he got the disfigurement on his face.
How can anyone with any common sense compare what is happening in Zimbabwe today to the Rhodesia of Ian Smith.
As I posted before, where are the great unwashed rent-a-crowds campaigning in the High Streets against the racist Robert Mugabe?
Thank you Philip for your post. Of course, all the Media consider Ian Smith a racist, but never mention his WWII record - where he got the disfigurement on his face.
How can anyone with any common sense compare what is happening in Zimbabwe today to the Rhodesia of Ian Smith.
As I posted before, where are the great unwashed rent-a-crowds campaigning in the High Streets against the racist Robert Mugabe?
Posted by: Philip Lardner, Erskine on 12:59am Sun 22 Jun 08
Hello there Plobotsky,
I've tried to be honest and I've been shafted. I didn't need any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way. Surely that's what the public want and deserve? This guy has added references to other people to make me guilty by association. The fact that this is the best he could come up with to discredit me after 40 odd minutes on the phone shows, I feel, my integrity. He didn't publish any of the stuff that shows my real opinions.
Anyway, I'd better leave it at that, and will not comment further - I'm off to bed!
Goodnight to the fair minded.
Phil
Hello there Plobotsky,
I've tried to be honest and I've been shafted. I didn't need any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way. Surely that's what the public want and deserve? This guy has added references to other people to make me guilty by association. The fact that this is the best he could come up with to discredit me after 40 odd minutes on the phone shows, I feel, my integrity. He didn't publish any of the stuff that shows my real opinions.
Anyway, I'd better leave it at that, and will not comment further - I'm off to bed!
Goodnight to the fair minded.
Phil
Posted by: somerferg, perth on 6:11am Sun 22 Jun 08
Philip
I do not support your party or politics but at least you reply to the article makes a lot of sense. As for Katy Clark well the less said about that particular monkey with a red rosette the better. Your seat was once true blue until the other monkeys started mucking about with the constituency and included the 'blue blood' areas of Ardrossan, Stevenson, Irvine yuk. So you will need some kind of miracle to get elected :)
Philip
I do not support your party or politics but at least you reply to the article makes a lot of sense. As for Katy Clark well the less said about that particular monkey with a red rosette the better. Your seat was once true blue until the other monkeys started mucking about with the constituency and included the 'blue blood' areas of Ardrossan, Stevenson, Irvine yuk. So you will need some kind of miracle to get elected :)
Posted by: Equality, East Kilbride on 7:40am Sun 22 Jun 08
from the Galloway Gazette
Tory warning over monarchy changes
"Moves to change the Act of Settlement would damage the monarchy and lead to the break-up of the Commonwealth, a Tory has claimed.
The claim was made by Philip Lardner who told the Scottish Tories' conference the legislation has ensured that British interests were put first for 300 years.
The Act bars Roman Catholics from the throne and also ensures the male succession.
Mr Lardner told the Scottish Tory conference in Ayr: "I believe our country deserves a sovereign head of state whose sole loyalty is to his, or her, people and not to some foreign, religious or political figurehead."
He later denied this could be seen as anti-Catholic.
from the Galloway Gazette
Tory warning over monarchy changes
"Moves to change the Act of Settlement would damage the monarchy and lead to the break-up of the Commonwealth, a Tory has claimed.
The claim was made by Philip Lardner who told the Scottish Tories' conference the legislation has ensured that British interests were put first for 300 years.
The Act bars Roman Catholics from the throne and also ensures the male succession.
Mr Lardner told the Scottish Tory conference in Ayr: "I believe our country deserves a sovereign head of state whose sole loyalty is to his, or her, people and not to some foreign, religious or political figurehead."
He later denied this could be seen as anti-Catholic.
Posted by: Blue Yonder, Galloway on 7:50am Sun 22 Jun 08
I read the SH article and then read your comments, and cannot for the life of me see why you are complaining.
Firstly, you surely cannot believe that Smith's Rhodesia was a success?
Second, surely to talk of an immigration "flood" is irresponsible?
Third, most fair-minded people would think your comments about African "brothers" are a disgrace.
Fourth, didn't your hero once say: "I don't believe in black majority rule over Rhodesia...not in a thousand years."
I read the SH article and then read your comments, and cannot for the life of me see why you are complaining.
Firstly, you surely cannot believe that Smith's Rhodesia was a success?
Second, surely to talk of an immigration "flood" is irresponsible?
Third, most fair-minded people would think your comments about African "brothers" are a disgrace.
Fourth, didn't your hero once say: "I don't believe in black majority rule over Rhodesia...not in a thousand years."
Posted by: Scotsgait, www.scotsgait.co.uk on 8:12am Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote]I said Smith was a hero partly due to his having been shot down three times in a Spitfire whilst voluntarily serving his Queen and Country. That makes him a hero in my book[/quote]
Michael Ross, mentioned in dispatches for his bravery after his unit was hit by suicide bombers in Iraq. Is he a hero too, despite the fact he murdered an Asian waiter in Kirkwall in a cold-blooded racist attack ?
_______________
Lisbon - what should be done now ? Cast your vote in the latest Scotsgait poll and join in the debate in The Gaithering
I said Smith was a hero partly due to his having been shot down three times in a Spitfire whilst voluntarily serving his Queen and Country. That makes him a hero in my book
Michael Ross, mentioned in dispatches for his bravery after his unit was hit by suicide bombers in Iraq. Is he a hero too, despite the fact he murdered an Asian waiter in Kirkwall in a cold-blooded racist attack ?
_______________
Lisbon - what should be done now ? Cast your vote in the latest Scotsgait poll and join in the debate in The Gaithering
Posted by: Tam, In ma hoose on 8:25am Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote]His (Lardner’s) interest in Rhodesian politics first became evident in a letter published in the Herald in 2005, in which he stated:
"Take a look at Zimbabwe or a dozen other human-induced African disasters and ask yourself whether the average African would rather be living (or more often than not dying) at the hands of his "free" African brothers, or have a Royal Navy warship sitting benevolently in the harbour?"[/quote]
Think this part of the Herald article best sums up Mr Lardner’s views on the freedoms and liberties of the African people.
For me, Lardner places way too much importance on the value of the monarchy and the British Empire.
His recent rant on the monarchy and Catholicism probably best serve to show what Mr Lardner is all about !
His (Lardner’s) interest in Rhodesian politics first became evident in a letter published in the Herald in 2005, in which he stated:
"Take a look at Zimbabwe or a dozen other human-induced African disasters and ask yourself whether the average African would rather be living (or more often than not dying) at the hands of his "free" African brothers, or have a Royal Navy warship sitting benevolently in the harbour?"
Think this part of the Herald article best sums up Mr Lardner’s views on the freedoms and liberties of the African people.
For me, Lardner places way too much importance on the value of the monarchy and the British Empire.
His recent rant on the monarchy and Catholicism probably best serve to show what Mr Lardner is all about !
Posted by: jim, Harare on 8:35am Sun 22 Jun 08
Philip Lardner, you are a ****
Philip Lardner, you are a ****
Posted by: davieboy on 8:40am Sun 22 Jun 08
I have met Philip Lardner 3-4 times socially and he is not a racist. While certainly patriotic, forthright and honest in his views this should no way be confused with the inferences laid out by Paul McCutcheon.
If he has a fault it is, as it appears, that he prefers to answer questions put to him honestly rather than side-step issues.
Lastly, had it not been a very quiet week with regard to political news, would this "story" have ever seen the light of day?
I have met Philip Lardner 3-4 times socially and he is not a racist. While certainly patriotic, forthright and honest in his views this should no way be confused with the inferences laid out by Paul McCutcheon.
If he has a fault it is, as it appears, that he prefers to answer questions put to him honestly rather than side-step issues.
Lastly, had it not been a very quiet week with regard to political news, would this "story" have ever seen the light of day?
Posted by: heady on 8:54am Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Philip Lardner[/bold] wrote:
Hello there Plobotsky, I've tried to be honest and I've been shafted. I didn't need any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way. Surely that's what the public want and deserve? This guy has added references to other people to make me guilty by association. The fact that this is the best he could come up with to discredit me after 40 odd minutes on the phone shows, I feel, my integrity. He didn't publish any of the stuff that shows my real opinions. Anyway, I'd better leave it at that, and will not comment further - I'm off to bed! Goodnight to the fair minded. Phil [/quote] Whoever you are you seem quite fixated on "being shafted" by Mr Hutcheon - anything you'd like to tell us?
Philip Lardner wrote:
Hello there Plobotsky, I've tried to be honest and I've been shafted. I didn't need any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way. Surely that's what the public want and deserve? This guy has added references to other people to make me guilty by association. The fact that this is the best he could come up with to discredit me after 40 odd minutes on the phone shows, I feel, my integrity. He didn't publish any of the stuff that shows my real opinions. Anyway, I'd better leave it at that, and will not comment further - I'm off to bed! Goodnight to the fair minded. Phil
Whoever you are you seem quite fixated on "being shafted" by Mr Hutcheon - anything you'd like to tell us?
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 8:55am Sun 22 Jun 08
The scariest thing about this story is that the man Lardner is a primary school teacher.
The scariest thing about this story is that the man Lardner is a primary school teacher.
Posted by: heady on 9:04am Sun 22 Jun 08
Strangely the Sunday Herald seem to think the dramatic conviction of war hero and lying racist murdered Michael Ross after so many years is not news (at least I cannot find a story about it in the online version of SH other than on “breaking news”).
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/news/dis
play.var.2356131.0.R
acist_killer_capture
d_after_bid_to_flee_
court.php
Racist killer captured after bid to flee court
DAVID ROSS, Highland Correspondent
June 21 2008
An Iraq war hero dramatically tried to flee court after he was convicted of the "savage, merciless, and pointless" murder of a Bangladeshi waiter 14 years ago.
Black Watch soldier Michael Ross was 15 when he entered a restaurant on Orkney and shot Shamsuddin Mahmood in front of customers because of the colour of his skin.
Police later confirmed Ross had become the main suspect soon after the murder of the Bangladeshi waiter at the Mumutaz Indian restaurant in Kirkwall in June 1994, only two months after Mr Mahmood arrived on Orkney.
Asked if Ross joined the Army to continue racist killings, Detective Inspector Iain Smith said: "You have to second-guess him. I can't say what his reason was for joining the Army.
"He was extremely keen in firearms and shooting, as was his father and brother. It became apparent from his cadet days and has followed him through his career."
Asked about his father lying to protect his son while a serving officer, Mr Smith said: "It is a decision he has made as a father protecting his son. Given his position as a police officer, that was an extremely frustrating scenario."
Strangely the Sunday Herald seem to think the dramatic conviction of war hero and lying racist murdered Michael Ross after so many years is not news (at least I cannot find a story about it in the online version of SH other than on “breaking news”).
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/news/dis
play.var.2356131.0.R
acist_killer_capture
d_after_bid_to_flee_
court.php
Racist killer captured after bid to flee court
DAVID ROSS, Highland Correspondent
June 21 2008
An Iraq war hero dramatically tried to flee court after he was convicted of the "savage, merciless, and pointless" murder of a Bangladeshi waiter 14 years ago.
Black Watch soldier Michael Ross was 15 when he entered a restaurant on Orkney and shot Shamsuddin Mahmood in front of customers because of the colour of his skin.
Police later confirmed Ross had become the main suspect soon after the murder of the Bangladeshi waiter at the Mumutaz Indian restaurant in Kirkwall in June 1994, only two months after Mr Mahmood arrived on Orkney.
Asked if Ross joined the Army to continue racist killings, Detective Inspector Iain Smith said: "You have to second-guess him. I can't say what his reason was for joining the Army.
"He was extremely keen in firearms and shooting, as was his father and brother. It became apparent from his cadet days and has followed him through his career."
Asked about his father lying to protect his son while a serving officer, Mr Smith said: "It is a decision he has made as a father protecting his son. Given his position as a police officer, that was an extremely frustrating scenario."
Posted by: Neil, Edinburgh on 9:04am Sun 22 Jun 08
I had the privilege of visiting Zimbabwe in 1991. It is a great country with huge potential. In the 1990s tourism was very successful and the country was peaceful. Mugabe's government changed that by seizing commercial farms and ruining the economy. All Zimbabweans desire our support to ensure peaceful change happens in that country and they can be helped by the international community.
Mr Larder is very bold to reply to this article. It shows how low standards of 'journalism' have sunk in Scotland. I fear that the only way to ensure this type of thing does not happen again is to take this to the Press Complaints Commission. I urge Mr Lardner to do this.
Sunday Herald - you need to take note of these comments from me and others.
I had the privilege of visiting Zimbabwe in 1991. It is a great country with huge potential. In the 1990s tourism was very successful and the country was peaceful. Mugabe's government changed that by seizing commercial farms and ruining the economy. All Zimbabweans desire our support to ensure peaceful change happens in that country and they can be helped by the international community.
Mr Larder is very bold to reply to this article. It shows how low standards of 'journalism' have sunk in Scotland. I fear that the only way to ensure this type of thing does not happen again is to take this to the Press Complaints Commission. I urge Mr Lardner to do this.
Sunday Herald - you need to take note of these comments from me and others.
Posted by: gus1940, Edinburgh on 9:06am Sun 22 Jun 08
Any relative of Desmond Lardner-Burke erstwhile political colleague of Ian Smith?
Any relative of Desmond Lardner-Burke erstwhile political colleague of Ian Smith?
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 9:45am Sun 22 Jun 08
Paul , I would rather have seen a BIG article about the Gers report than this piece!
I consider the Gers report to be the biggest story in Scotland.
It is reassuring to know that we are NOT a financial basket case and more than capable of looking after ourselves.
In fact I'm really disappointed that you , of all journalists, decided to run with this and NOT on the Gers Report.
What a fuss over some poor guy who answered in a manner many other people would agree with!
I have to say some might consider it a "rant" but then free speech and a little less lying PC is what I'm after.
Well done Mr Lardner for coming on the blog and stating your case !
And under your own name too!
Paul , I would rather have seen a BIG article about the Gers report than this piece!
I consider the Gers report to be the biggest story in Scotland.
It is reassuring to know that we are NOT a financial basket case and more than capable of looking after ourselves.
In fact I'm really disappointed that you , of all journalists, decided to run with this and NOT on the Gers Report.
What a fuss over some poor guy who answered in a manner many other people would agree with!
I have to say some might consider it a "rant" but then free speech and a little less lying PC is what I'm after.
Well done Mr Lardner for coming on the blog and stating your case !
And under your own name too!
Posted by: James Campbell, Largs on 10:04am Sun 22 Jun 08
hate to think what an independent Scotland would be like if folk like "Disgusted Dorothy" were in charge.
Some questions Dot:
1. You say Lardner "answered in a manner many other people would agree with". Which parts did you agree with?
2. What are your views on the Smith regime?
3. Please could you define "lying PC"?
James
hate to think what an independent Scotland would be like if folk like "Disgusted Dorothy" were in charge.
Some questions Dot:
1. You say Lardner "answered in a manner many other people would agree with". Which parts did you agree with?
2. What are your views on the Smith regime?
3. Please could you define "lying PC"?
James
Posted by: Mandela, Cape Town on 10:08am Sun 22 Jun 08
Is Philip Larnder any relation of this man, perchance?
From The TimesMarch 18, 2008
President Robert Mugabe 'raises the dead' to secure electoral victory in ZimbabweJan Raath in Harare
Zimbabwe has the highest proportion of elderly voters in the world, according to the voters' roll being used for elections next week. A glance at one page of the roll yesterday for a ward in the Mount Pleasant suburb of Harare turned up a Fodias Kunyepa, who was born in 1901. Over the page was Rebecca Armstrong, born 1900.
Somewhat younger was Desmond Lardner-Burke, born 1909, who was the notorious Minister for Justice in the rebel Rhodesian Government and responsible for the harassment, arrest and detention without trial of tens of thousands of black nationalists, including President Mugabe, fighting against white rule in the 1960s and 1970s.
Is Philip Larnder any relation of this man, perchance?
From The TimesMarch 18, 2008
President Robert Mugabe 'raises the dead' to secure electoral victory in ZimbabweJan Raath in Harare
Zimbabwe has the highest proportion of elderly voters in the world, according to the voters' roll being used for elections next week. A glance at one page of the roll yesterday for a ward in the Mount Pleasant suburb of Harare turned up a Fodias Kunyepa, who was born in 1901. Over the page was Rebecca Armstrong, born 1900.
Somewhat younger was Desmond Lardner-Burke, born 1909, who was the notorious Minister for Justice in the rebel Rhodesian Government and responsible for the harassment, arrest and detention without trial of tens of thousands of black nationalists, including President Mugabe, fighting against white rule in the 1960s and 1970s.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:32am Sun 22 Jun 08
Morning James in sunny Largs!
As far as I'm concerned from looking at blogs on all newspapers, there is a huge groundswell of support, mostly in English newspapers ,for less immigration.
Regarding Ian Smith , for me , he lived in different times and he thought he did well by the local people.( you can disagree with him if you like!)
As someone has already pointed ou Rhodesia fed its people and also other nations.Tragically, not the case today.
Equally interesting, in a ghoulish sort of way, is the lack of action taken by the rest of the world to a corrupt and wasteful regime.
They , our leaders, have had years to take action and have failed so to do.
Lying political correctness, I believe has stifled free speech , prevented hard debates and generally allowed people to "point the finger" usually in terms of racism.
I also believe that those who see racism in every comment have actually done anti racism a disservice.
Morning James in sunny Largs!
As far as I'm concerned from looking at blogs on all newspapers, there is a huge groundswell of support, mostly in English newspapers ,for less immigration.
Regarding Ian Smith , for me , he lived in different times and he thought he did well by the local people.( you can disagree with him if you like!)
As someone has already pointed ou Rhodesia fed its people and also other nations.Tragically, not the case today.
Equally interesting, in a ghoulish sort of way, is the lack of action taken by the rest of the world to a corrupt and wasteful regime.
They , our leaders, have had years to take action and have failed so to do.
Lying political correctness, I believe has stifled free speech , prevented hard debates and generally allowed people to "point the finger" usually in terms of racism.
I also believe that those who see racism in every comment have actually done anti racism a disservice.
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 11:02am Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Disgusted Dorothy[/bold] wrote:
Morning James in sunny Largs! As far as I'm concerned from looking at blogs on all newspapers, there is a huge groundswell of support, mostly in English newspapers ,for less immigration. Regarding Ian Smith , for me , he lived in different times and he thought he did well by the local people.( you can disagree with him if you like!) As someone has already pointed ou Rhodesia fed its people and also other nations.Tragically, not the case today. Equally interesting, in a ghoulish sort of way, is the lack of action taken by the rest of the world to a corrupt and wasteful regime. They , our leaders, have had years to take action and have failed so to do. Lying political correctness, I believe has stifled free speech , prevented hard debates and generally allowed people to "point the finger" usually in terms of racism. I also believe that those who see racism in every comment have actually done anti racism a disservice.[/quote] Well said Dorothy.
If it was a white regime committing the atrocities in Zimbabwe, the whole of Africa and the rest of the world would be bleating about.
Is it the case that many of the countries in Afica are now run by corrupt governments and they have a vested interest in ensuring their own survival by colluding with each other?
Disgusted Dorothy wrote:
Morning James in sunny Largs! As far as I'm concerned from looking at blogs on all newspapers, there is a huge groundswell of support, mostly in English newspapers ,for less immigration. Regarding Ian Smith , for me , he lived in different times and he thought he did well by the local people.( you can disagree with him if you like!) As someone has already pointed ou Rhodesia fed its people and also other nations.Tragically, not the case today. Equally interesting, in a ghoulish sort of way, is the lack of action taken by the rest of the world to a corrupt and wasteful regime. They , our leaders, have had years to take action and have failed so to do. Lying political correctness, I believe has stifled free speech , prevented hard debates and generally allowed people to "point the finger" usually in terms of racism. I also believe that those who see racism in every comment have actually done anti racism a disservice.
Well said Dorothy.
If it was a white regime committing the atrocities in Zimbabwe, the whole of Africa and the rest of the world would be bleating about.
Is it the case that many of the countries in Afica are now run by corrupt governments and they have a vested interest in ensuring their own survival by colluding with each other?
Posted by: Plobotsky on 11:14am Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Highlander45[/bold] wrote:
The Scottish Tory candidate is also a member of Better Off Out, an anti-EU organisation, and the Rhodesian Christian Group,the grand orange lodge,Masonic order,the UVF,UDA,UFF.
He hates blacks Irish Scots and just about anyone else who do not share his filthy anglo saxon bloodline.[/quote] Where does it say in the story that Mr Lardner is a member of terrorist organisations like the UVA, UDA and UFF?
And what does the poster "Highlander45" mean by "his filthy anglo saxon bloodline?" Now there's racist.
Highlander45 wrote:
The Scottish Tory candidate is also a member of Better Off Out, an anti-EU organisation, and the Rhodesian Christian Group,the grand orange lodge,Masonic order,the UVF,UDA,UFF.
He hates blacks Irish Scots and just about anyone else who do not share his filthy anglo saxon bloodline.
Where does it say in the story that Mr Lardner is a member of terrorist organisations like the UVA, UDA and UFF?
And what does the poster "Highlander45" mean by "his filthy anglo saxon bloodline?" Now there's racist.
Posted by: Plobotsky on 11:22am Sun 22 Jun 08
Mr Lardner says he doesn't think he needs "any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way". I suspect he's learned the hard way what a foolish thing that was to say.
The Sunday Herald story was completely reasonable, and he seems to have walked in to this firestorm. Katy Clark MP and other opponents were quite right to comment as they did. The man talks about the Rhodesian regime in glowing terms, and appears to be anti-Catholic, and people aren't supposed to notice?
The only thing I can say in defence is that his naivete has got someone like me defending him from barking mad posters like Highlander45. As I said earlier, the Tories are in worse trouble than they must have thought if they can't convince their PPCs to take advice on dealing with the media when it's needed.
Mr Lardner says he doesn't think he needs "any 'handling' advice to tell the truth in a measured and reasonable way". I suspect he's learned the hard way what a foolish thing that was to say.
The Sunday Herald story was completely reasonable, and he seems to have walked in to this firestorm. Katy Clark MP and other opponents were quite right to comment as they did. The man talks about the Rhodesian regime in glowing terms, and appears to be anti-Catholic, and people aren't supposed to notice?
The only thing I can say in defence is that his naivete has got someone like me defending him from barking mad posters like Highlander45. As I said earlier, the Tories are in worse trouble than they must have thought if they can't convince their PPCs to take advice on dealing with the media when it's needed.
Posted by: Bernard Moffatt, Isle of Man on 12:03pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Don't criticise the media Phillip if you play in the kitchen you can sometimes get burned.
Anyway:
"It doesn't make sense to flood a small island with people"
The Isle of Man has seen its indigenous population almost disappear in the past fifty years and we have managed to cope without 'sptitting out our dummies'
Grow up its a changing world we can change with it or winge! Your choice.
Don't criticise the media Phillip if you play in the kitchen you can sometimes get burned.
Anyway:
"It doesn't make sense to flood a small island with people"
The Isle of Man has seen its indigenous population almost disappear in the past fifty years and we have managed to cope without 'sptitting out our dummies'
Grow up its a changing world we can change with it or winge! Your choice.
Posted by: mr angry, ayrshire on 12:45pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Plenty of clowns replying on here. Fit them better if they were condemning Mugabe , whether Smith was good or bad at least people were employed , fed and safe. To many PC dogooders who will shout if a white persons mentions anything , but are very happy to accept coloured people murdering their people and stealing all their money. Lot of warped individuals in the UK, pity lots of them are in Scotland, take the blinkers off you fools. Nothing worse than people who only ever see one side of the picture , there are bad people in charge in many places in Africa who are much worse than the previous white rulers ever were. You would think that people who have been under the thumb of another country for 300 years would have more sense.
Plenty of clowns replying on here. Fit them better if they were condemning Mugabe , whether Smith was good or bad at least people were employed , fed and safe. To many PC dogooders who will shout if a white persons mentions anything , but are very happy to accept coloured people murdering their people and stealing all their money. Lot of warped individuals in the UK, pity lots of them are in Scotland, take the blinkers off you fools. Nothing worse than people who only ever see one side of the picture , there are bad people in charge in many places in Africa who are much worse than the previous white rulers ever were. You would think that people who have been under the thumb of another country for 300 years would have more sense.
Posted by: Angus, Suffolk on 12:59pm Sun 22 Jun 08
If you want to read what a real journalist has to say about figures like Smith and Powell, read another Scotsman - Andrew Marr - from the last generation of decent writers our country produced.
In a History of Modern Britain he writes 'a surprisingly sympathetic portrait of that remarkable and tragic figure J. Enoch Powell, and a frank recognition of the damage done to Britain’s social coherence and sense of identity by the scale of immigration over the past half-century.'
Hutcheon is typical of the 'bairns' who write on the Scottish 'heavies' nowadays prefering cliches over well-researched and informed pieces. They prefer attacking hapless figures like Mr Lardner to engaging and promoting serious and thought-provoking debate.
If you want to read what a real journalist has to say about figures like Smith and Powell, read another Scotsman - Andrew Marr - from the last generation of decent writers our country produced.
In a History of Modern Britain he writes 'a surprisingly sympathetic portrait of that remarkable and tragic figure J. Enoch Powell, and a frank recognition of the damage done to Britain’s social coherence and sense of identity by the scale of immigration over the past half-century.'
Hutcheon is typical of the 'bairns' who write on the Scottish 'heavies' nowadays prefering cliches over well-researched and informed pieces. They prefer attacking hapless figures like Mr Lardner to engaging and promoting serious and thought-provoking debate.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:17pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Enoch Powell wrote his Rivers of Blood speech in the context of immigration of Afro Carribeans from the West Indies. He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man, which clearly hasn't happened. What on earth Enoch Powell and immigration has to do with the Glasgow Airport incident, only Mr Lardner knows. The attack on Glasgow Airport, as with the 7/7 bombings in London were not carried out by Afro Carribean immigrants but by terrorists, in response to the invasion of Iraq. There is no connection between the two subjects unless you are a racist.
Mr Lardnee clearly believes in a monoculture (and a protestant one) and is opposed to immigration, and clearly is a white supremacist also. To deplore white supremacy is not to support Mugabe, you can condemn both.
Enoch Powell wrote his Rivers of Blood speech in the context of immigration of Afro Carribeans from the West Indies. He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man, which clearly hasn't happened. What on earth Enoch Powell and immigration has to do with the Glasgow Airport incident, only Mr Lardner knows. The attack on Glasgow Airport, as with the 7/7 bombings in London were not carried out by Afro Carribean immigrants but by terrorists, in response to the invasion of Iraq. There is no connection between the two subjects unless you are a racist.
Mr Lardnee clearly believes in a monoculture (and a protestant one) and is opposed to immigration, and clearly is a white supremacist also. To deplore white supremacy is not to support Mugabe, you can condemn both.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:24pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Scotland is a country which has been created by successive waves of immigration - it's very name proves that, the Scots originated in Ireland. I wish people would remember that when they go off on one about ''immigrants flooding the country'' if it wasn't for immigrants none of us would be here.
Scotland is a country which has been created by successive waves of immigration - it's very name proves that, the Scots originated in Ireland. I wish people would remember that when they go off on one about ''immigrants flooding the country'' if it wasn't for immigrants none of us would be here.
Posted by: davieboy on 1:26pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Observer,
Can you justify the statement that Philip Lardner is "..... clearly is a white supremacist also"
Observer,
Can you justify the statement that Philip Lardner is "..... clearly is a white supremacist also"
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 2:10pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is.
Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is.
Posted by: mal, Aberdeen on 2:24pm Sun 22 Jun 08
I don`t find this piece surprising at all.
The Tories i know would agree with him.
Cameron seems to want these views diminished by censorship, when everything i`ve ever thought about the Tories is encapsulated by this chap,hence the reason i`d never vote for them.
I don`t know if he`s a White supremacist but he`s definitely a British one,if that`s what he believes, fair enough but colonialism funded the Tories then and probably still does now.
Blair and Cameron are so similar with their attempted grip on their parties,they know the extremes on both sides cost votes,however in my opinion, extremists on the right have always been the less palatable.
I don`t find this piece surprising at all.
The Tories i know would agree with him.
Cameron seems to want these views diminished by censorship, when everything i`ve ever thought about the Tories is encapsulated by this chap,hence the reason i`d never vote for them.
I don`t know if he`s a White supremacist but he`s definitely a British one,if that`s what he believes, fair enough but colonialism funded the Tories then and probably still does now.
Blair and Cameron are so similar with their attempted grip on their parties,they know the extremes on both sides cost votes,however in my opinion, extremists on the right have always been the less palatable.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 2:46pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Disgusting Dorothy:
[quote]I have to say some might consider it a "rant" but then free speech and a little less lying PC is what I'm after.[/quote]I agree with you. Free Speech is being destroyed by the fear of not being PC. I believe people's true opinions on many topics are suppressed for "fear" of being called a racist, homophobe, etc, etc, etc.
Regarding this article. The Herald Newspapers are the mouthpiece of the Labour Party - why would Philip Lardner or anyone else expect regarding a prospective Tory MP.
Disgusting Dorothy:
I have to say some might consider it a "rant" but then free speech and a little less lying PC is what I'm after.
I agree with you. Free Speech is being destroyed by the fear of not being PC. I believe people's true opinions on many topics are suppressed for "fear" of being called a racist, homophobe, etc, etc, etc.
Regarding this article. The Herald Newspapers are the mouthpiece of the Labour Party - why would Philip Lardner or anyone else expect regarding a prospective Tory MP.
Posted by: Mark Boyle, Johnstone on 2:48pm Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
Enoch Powell wrote his Rivers of Blood speech in the context of immigration of Afro Carribeans from the West Indies. He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man, which clearly hasn\'t happened. What on earth Enoch Powell and immigration has to do with the Glasgow Airport incident, only Mr Lardner knows. The attack on Glasgow Airport, as with the 7/7 bombings in London were not carried out by Afro Carribean immigrants but by terrorists, in response to the invasion of Iraq. There is no connection between the two subjects unless you are a racist.
Mr Lardnee clearly believes in a monoculture (and a protestant one) and is opposed to immigration, and clearly is a white supremacist also. To deplore white supremacy is not to support Mugabe, you can condemn both. [/quote] "He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man"
Sigh! No he didn't.
He reported a constituent saying that to him in broad daylight. That was what alarmed him. What had once been the currency of the pub amongst the low brow was now being openly mouthed by respectable people in work, or writing to him stating tales of old ladies having excrement shoved through their letterboxes (Powell's private investigations found that the woman concerned - the late Delores Cotterall - had in fact merely been the unwitting victim of a prank between local feuding kids, but kept his mouth shut to protect Palace Road residents from the press & Race Relations stirrers on both sides).
Powell's crime was to show up the British - especially the "good old salt of the earth working class" that the lefties romanticise over still - as being selfish, spiteful, & parochial.
People should remember his Bradford speech of 1971 "There is no limit, over the years and the generations, to the changes we can undergo - yes, or to the strangers whom we can absorb - and still remain, thoughout it all, ourselves!" before still trying to make him out as the poster boy of the "sent 'em back!" kneejerk clowns.
Observer wrote:
Enoch Powell wrote his Rivers of Blood speech in the context of immigration of Afro Carribeans from the West Indies. He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man, which clearly hasn\'t happened. What on earth Enoch Powell and immigration has to do with the Glasgow Airport incident, only Mr Lardner knows. The attack on Glasgow Airport, as with the 7/7 bombings in London were not carried out by Afro Carribean immigrants but by terrorists, in response to the invasion of Iraq. There is no connection between the two subjects unless you are a racist.
Mr Lardnee clearly believes in a monoculture (and a protestant one) and is opposed to immigration, and clearly is a white supremacist also. To deplore white supremacy is not to support Mugabe, you can condemn both.
"He predicted that the black man would have the whip hand over the white man"
Sigh! No he didn't.
He reported a constituent saying that to him in broad daylight. That was what alarmed him. What had once been the currency of the pub amongst the low brow was now being openly mouthed by respectable people in work, or writing to him stating tales of old ladies having excrement shoved through their letterboxes (Powell's private investigations found that the woman concerned - the late Delores Cotterall - had in fact merely been the unwitting victim of a prank between local feuding kids, but kept his mouth shut to protect Palace Road residents from the press & Race Relations stirrers on both sides).
Powell's crime was to show up the British - especially the "good old salt of the earth working class" that the lefties romanticise over still - as being selfish, spiteful, & parochial.
People should remember his Bradford speech of 1971 "There is no limit, over the years and the generations, to the changes we can undergo - yes, or to the strangers whom we can absorb - and still remain, thoughout it all, ourselves!" before still trying to make him out as the poster boy of the "sent 'em back!" kneejerk clowns.
Posted by: Mark Boyle, Johnstone on 2:57pm Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is. [/quote] I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist.
His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule [italic]per se[/italic] - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia.
So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!)
As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti
e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.
Observer wrote:
Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is.
I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist.
His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule
per se - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia.
So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!)
As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti
e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 3:02pm Sun 22 Jun 08
OK he quoted a constituent and then said that he didn't have the right not to repeat the statement. In doing so he claimed ownership of it. He made a series of hysterical predictions, none of which have come true.
OK he quoted a constituent and then said that he didn't have the right not to repeat the statement. In doing so he claimed ownership of it. He made a series of hysterical predictions, none of which have come true.
Posted by: davieboy on 3:19pm Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Mark Boyle[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote: Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is. [/quote] I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist. His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule [italic]per se[/italic] - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia. So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!) As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.[/quote] Mark,
If you are known by the company you keep, are you saying that the SNP politicians who marched through Johnstone & Elderslie 2/3 years ago at the Wallace day parade hold the same racist views as the group calling themselves "Seed of the Gael"
Mark Boyle wrote:
Observer wrote: Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is.
I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist. His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule per se - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia. So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!) As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.
Mark,
If you are known by the company you keep, are you saying that the SNP politicians who marched through Johnstone & Elderslie 2/3 years ago at the Wallace day parade hold the same racist views as the group calling themselves "Seed of the Gael"
Posted by: Mark Boyle, Johnstone on 7:48pm Sun 22 Jun 08
[quote][bold]davieboy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Mark Boyle[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote: Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is. [/quote] I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist. His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule [italic]per se[/italic] - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia. So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!) As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.[/quote] Mark,
If you are known by the company you keep, are you saying that the SNP politicians who marched through Johnstone & Elderslie 2/3 years ago at the Wallace day parade hold the same racist views as the group calling themselves "Seed of the Gael"
[/quote] LOL! I was waiting for that one!
The "Wallace Day" march is run by a bunch with nothing whatsoever to do with the SNP. The SNP go to it, as do a whole bunch of nationalist groups. The Scottish Republican Socialist Party used to be regulars, but of course the SnG - everyone's favourite Macglashin from [italic]Absolutely[/italic] cosplay group - can be relied upon to turn up. I don't like the para-political fantasies of far too many of the SnG's members, but anything that upsets the local Labour feudal barons & the Orange Order so much can't be all bad! :D
The point is there's a world of difference between taking part in a public parade where another group just happen to take part/gatecrash (you only have to look at the despised Socialist Workers Party for that) and having an article printed in their magazine, denoting you are at least generally sympathetic with their aims.
I warned the Scottish writer Kenneth C Steven years ago that he was committing career suicide by having some poems of his printed once in the "Siol" magazine - sure enough, he's been damned ever since & can't get any mainstream publishing house (including Scottish) to touch him. Did warn you Kenny...
davieboy wrote:
Mark Boyle wrote:
Observer wrote: Yes Davieboy, Ian Smith was a white supremacist. Mr Lardner named him as his political hero, and also noted that he was from ''The Empire'' which was also built on white supremacy. I imagine that is the reason why his views have hit the headlines, being dubious about immigration is hardly news, white supremacy is.
I agree with you on Ian Smith as a white supremacist. His Rhodesian Front was propped up by the sanction busting antics of the League of Empire Loyalists (the future National Front), & by the Anglo-Rhodesian Society over in Edinburgh, neither of whom dressed up their attitute of the black's 'unfitness' to rule per se - not merely the black majority of Rhodesia. So evil was his regime, even apartheid South Africa eventually pulled the plug on any sort of aid being given to them (albeit it was also to keep their Mozambique pals happy, but that's another story entirely!) As for Phillip Lardner, the guy has written articles for the so-called Freedom Association (set up by the late Norris McWhirter, & effectively the right-wing version of the bleeding-heart-lefti e only 'National Council for Civil Liberties' aka 'Liberty'), which has long been one of the two major 'neutral grounds' for Tories & Britain's far-right to mix (the other being the Monday Club), so people can judge for themselves about Lardner no matter what he may claim in his defence. In politics, a man is known by the company he keeps.
Mark,
If you are known by the company you keep, are you saying that the SNP politicians who marched through Johnstone & Elderslie 2/3 years ago at the Wallace day parade hold the same racist views as the group calling themselves "Seed of the Gael"
LOL! I was waiting for that one!
The "Wallace Day" march is run by a bunch with nothing whatsoever to do with the SNP. The SNP go to it, as do a whole bunch of nationalist groups. The Scottish Republican Socialist Party used to be regulars, but of course the SnG - everyone's favourite Macglashin from
Absolutely cosplay group - can be relied upon to turn up. I don't like the para-political fantasies of far too many of the SnG's members, but anything that upsets the local Labour feudal barons & the Orange Order so much can't be all bad! :D
The point is there's a world of difference between taking part in a public parade where another group just happen to take part/gatecrash (you only have to look at the despised Socialist Workers Party for that) and having an article printed in their magazine, denoting you are at least generally sympathetic with their aims.
I warned the Scottish writer Kenneth C Steven years ago that he was committing career suicide by having some poems of his printed once in the "Siol" magazine - sure enough, he's been damned ever since & can't get any mainstream publishing house (including Scottish) to touch him. Did warn you Kenny...
Posted by: davieboy on 10:17pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Mark,
I feel that you have made my point.
Personally, I dont think that the SNP politicians in Renfrewshire are racist simply because they attend the same events as Seed of the Gael.
You appear to know Kenneth C Steven better than me (i've never heard of him. Sorry Kenny.) but even if he did write in their mag once before does that necessarily make him share their racist beliefs?
The upshot is, if he doesn't share their racist beliefs you make my point, however if he does, (going by your logic of being known by the company you keep) then you must be a racist too.
Mark,
I feel that you have made my point.
Personally, I dont think that the SNP politicians in Renfrewshire are racist simply because they attend the same events as Seed of the Gael.
You appear to know Kenneth C Steven better than me (i've never heard of him. Sorry Kenny.) but even if he did write in their mag once before does that necessarily make him share their racist beliefs?
The upshot is, if he doesn't share their racist beliefs you make my point, however if he does, (going by your logic of being known by the company you keep) then you must be a racist too.
Posted by: Cllr Mark Horn, Bourne on 10:19pm Sun 22 Jun 08
This is a very poor article by Paul Hutcheon. The aim of the article is simply to try and score trite political points.
I wrote an article last year, set out below, which tries to reflect the complexity of Ian Smith and the times - there is, without doubt, a great deal to admire about Ian Smith, and it is those aspects that Philip Lardner has highlighted.
Incidentally, I also have met Robert Mugabe, and he too is more complex than currently represented in the British media.
Paul Hutcheon needs to do some research, he neeeds to get his facts right, and he needs to get some perspective and balance.
Cllr Mark Horn (Conservative)
[bold]Ian Smith - An African Hero[/bold]
[italic]November 25, 2007[/italic]
[bold]
The Proud History of the Loser[/bold]
History is not simple.
It is all the harder sometimes to comprehend the conflicting ebb and flow of emotion if you lived through it.
They say "History is written by the Victor" - perhaps so, but those who fought on the side of the Loser also have their History.
That History, the feelings that inspired it, the emotions that ran through it - that History is as legitimate as the history of the Victors.
It deserves to be respected, to be understood within the context of the time in which it was lived.
The fallen among the Losers were also Hero's.
More to the point - they were my Hero's.
[bold]An African Colonial Identity[/bold]
I condemn racism in any of its forms - my record on this is beyond reproach.
I have a Master's in African history, I work extensively throughout Africa, I have a deep and abiding passion for the continent of my birth.
I have always done my best for Africa.
Nevertheless, I am a British African colonial - that is my cultural heritage, and the cultural nuances that come with that heritage is something I will not deny.
I will not apologise for who I am.
I will not forswear my identity; I will not deny my very sense of self.
I am, what I am and I am proud of it.
To ask that that I deny my culture is to advocate the genocide of my culture.
When it comes to the assessment of Ian Smith, I would be a betrayal of my cultural heritage were I to act the Judas and not to stand up for what I know to be the truth.
When the **** crows I will not turn away in shame from my betrayal of a man I admired as a child.
Ian Smith was an African Hero.
[bold]Plague upon our enemies[/bold]
I will not stand by and keep silent as Peter Haine MP, a Labour cabinet minister and Paul Burstow MP, a Liberal Democrat, seek to establish that those who admire Ian Smith, former Prime Minister of Rhodesia are white supremacist and racist.
Their presumptions, their interpretation of history, their values are wrong.
When I grew up, Peter Haine, was a figure of ridicule and loathing - I still can barely stomach the man.
I believed, and still do believe, that he is nothing but an opportunist - that beneath that fake sun tan there is not a man of any moral worth.
I will not have him define what is good.
[bold]Ian Smith Colonial Virtues[/bold]
I met Ian Smith on several occasions.
Like him, I am a graduate of Rhodes University in South Africa.
At University, Ian Smith was a leader of the Student¹s Union, rugby and cricket blue, an exemplary student.
He had, as is well known, a distinguished career in the RAF during the Second World War.
Shot down twice, he spent six months with the partisans.
He was a Boy's Own hero.
Ian Smith represented all that was best in the colonial African tradition - a Fair-Minded man who sought to do what was right.
A man of undoubted Courage, undeniable Honour and undisputed Integrity.
A plain speaking man who was good to his word.
These were Colonial virtues, the simple virtues of a frontier society.
Ian Smith embodied all these virtues.
I admired him in my youth - I still do.
Undoubtedly, he made mistakes, but he was an Honourable and Courageous man.
That much should be recognised by all by both his friends, and by his enemies.
[bold]Ian Smith Was He Right?[/bold]
We then turn to the difficult question - was he right in declaring UDI and plunging Rhodesia into the Bush War?
This is not an easy question - it is particularly difficult if that period of history formed your formative years.
I do not believe that Ian Smith was a white supremacist - the term "white supremacist" has connotations of the American Deep South, or inner-City Birmingham - as a phrase it does not accurately describe Rhodesia in the 1960's and 1970's.
The motivation that underlay the declaration of UDI was not "racist".
UDI was not motivated by racial antagonism; there was no sense of inevitable racial superiority in Rhodesia.
UDI was driven by sense of anguish and betrayal.
Those who lived through UDI know how wrenching the experience was Rhodesians felt truly British, yet they were denied and betrayed by the Mother Country they loved.
I wish, and I believe he wished, that there could have been some other way.
What was, however, was.
A cruel necessity.
[bold]The Delusion[/bold]
The franchise was available to all - the caveat was that there were educational and property requirements to attain that franchise.
Was this a fig leaf?
Less than a half a century before those same restraints - those same hurdles to full enfranchisement - were in place in Britain.
We were in the wilds of Africa surely a little more time made sense?
Was this a conscious self-delusion?
Probably.
It was in retrospect a denial of reality - it was also a mistake the compromise should have come earlier.
What is clear to me is that the self-delusion counters that re-writing of history that casts Ian Smith as a white supremacist, an unreconstructed racist.
To portray Ian Smith and Rhodesia as an extension of the US civil rights movement, or the equality movement in Britain, is to re-write History so that it satisfies a modern need to condemn.
It was not like that.
It was a matter of life and death.
[bold]The Aspirations of Rhodesia[/bold]
Rhodesia was not motivated by a nasty vision of suppression or of inherent racism the motivation was far more complex, far more inspirational, far more insecure.
Rhodesians believed, and earnestly believed, that they were kind, compassionate, caring decent people - and they strove to live their lives exhibiting those virtues though thought and deed to all, black and white.
Rhodesians strove to build an African utopia one where all would have their place in the sun.
Rhodesians strove to be fair, aspired to good neighbourliness, hoped for a compromise.
[bold]Betrayal[/bold]
It was a complex time to be living in Africa, more so if you were white.
Those of us who grew up in those times understand the fears, the anxieties, the hopes, aspirations and ideals of Rhodesia.
Rhodesians felt betrayed by a Mother Country whom our fathers had served without question when called-on, but which now treated their sons and daughters as an embarrassment, something to be discarded, ignored and sacrificed.
How do you sacrifice your children simply because it was now a convenient?
How do you just go quietly into the good night?
African colonial culture placed high value on Honour, on Courage, on ³doing the right thing², on speaking the Truth.
We viewed the expediency of Westminster as dishonourable; the actions of these sophisticated politicians were viewed with contempt, they lied, and lied, and lied.
Rhodesian values were ³colonial², they were paternalistic, and they were in many respects, misguided.
They were not, however, mean, venal or nasty.
They were values that Rhodesians lived by, values they were prepared to die by and many did.
[bold]The Right Thing[/bold]
Rhodesians sought to do the right thing - the difficulty was to know "what was the right thing?"
That choice was made for them.
Rhodesians knew that people - black and white - men, women and children - were being killed.
We knew that they were being killed with a brutality that denied comprehension.
I remember as a young teenager the horror at the massacre of the survivors of the plane that was shot down who were bayoneted as they lay helpless in the burning rubble.
I remember the outrage, the helpless disbelief as the news of the attack on the mission station, of the nuns raped, of the countless cruel and barbarous tortures inflicted on helpless victims of the terrorists.
I remember the fear as dusk crept in each dark night.
Our boogie-men were real the traumor was real.
This was not an enemy you could respect they were vile, they were evil.
We could not reach an accommodation with the vision of ZAPU and ZANU.
They had no place for white colonials.
Indeed, they had no place for anyone who disagreed with them.
They were evil - it was that simple.
[bold]The Black Facts[/bold]
Those who fought and died in defence of Rhodesia were both black and white Rhodesians.
Over 80% of the Rhodesian Defence forces were black.
A simple fact, a fact often forgotten.
Those who served in the Rhodesian forces were brave men, black and white.
They served Ian Smith with honour.
They, and I, will remember Ian Smith, as a man of Honour, a man of Courage, an African Hero, a true son of the British people.
Woe betide anyone who seeks to have us betray the Truth that we hold dear.
[bold]Peace to Zimbabwe[/bold]
I do not believe in sanctions against Zimbabwe.
Sanctions will hurt the poorest, the weakest, and the most vulnerable.
Zimbabwe needs to be embraced by the world, not isolated.
We need to build peace and prosperity in Zimbabwe.
That can only come by reaching out.
Only by reaching out can we make the fear go away.
A free, prosperous, peaceful Zimbabwe is what Ian Smith would have wanted.
That is what we should strive for as lasting memorial to an African Hero.
This is a very poor article by Paul Hutcheon. The aim of the article is simply to try and score trite political points.
I wrote an article last year, set out below, which tries to reflect the complexity of Ian Smith and the times - there is, without doubt, a great deal to admire about Ian Smith, and it is those aspects that Philip Lardner has highlighted.
Incidentally, I also have met Robert Mugabe, and he too is more complex than currently represented in the British media.
Paul Hutcheon needs to do some research, he neeeds to get his facts right, and he needs to get some perspective and balance.
Cllr Mark Horn (Conservative)
Ian Smith - An African Hero
November 25, 2007
The Proud History of the Loser
History is not simple.
It is all the harder sometimes to comprehend the conflicting ebb and flow of emotion if you lived through it.
They say "History is written by the Victor" - perhaps so, but those who fought on the side of the Loser also have their History.
That History, the feelings that inspired it, the emotions that ran through it - that History is as legitimate as the history of the Victors.
It deserves to be respected, to be understood within the context of the time in which it was lived.
The fallen among the Losers were also Hero's.
More to the point - they were my Hero's.
An African Colonial Identity
I condemn racism in any of its forms - my record on this is beyond reproach.
I have a Master's in African history, I work extensively throughout Africa, I have a deep and abiding passion for the continent of my birth.
I have always done my best for Africa.
Nevertheless, I am a British African colonial - that is my cultural heritage, and the cultural nuances that come with that heritage is something I will not deny.
I will not apologise for who I am.
I will not forswear my identity; I will not deny my very sense of self.
I am, what I am and I am proud of it.
To ask that that I deny my culture is to advocate the genocide of my culture.
When it comes to the assessment of Ian Smith, I would be a betrayal of my cultural heritage were I to act the Judas and not to stand up for what I know to be the truth.
When the **** crows I will not turn away in shame from my betrayal of a man I admired as a child.
Ian Smith was an African Hero.
Plague upon our enemies
I will not stand by and keep silent as Peter Haine MP, a Labour cabinet minister and Paul Burstow MP, a Liberal Democrat, seek to establish that those who admire Ian Smith, former Prime Minister of Rhodesia are white supremacist and racist.
Their presumptions, their interpretation of history, their values are wrong.
When I grew up, Peter Haine, was a figure of ridicule and loathing - I still can barely stomach the man.
I believed, and still do believe, that he is nothing but an opportunist - that beneath that fake sun tan there is not a man of any moral worth.
I will not have him define what is good.
Ian Smith Colonial Virtues
I met Ian Smith on several occasions.
Like him, I am a graduate of Rhodes University in South Africa.
At University, Ian Smith was a leader of the Student¹s Union, rugby and cricket blue, an exemplary student.
He had, as is well known, a distinguished career in the RAF during the Second World War.
Shot down twice, he spent six months with the partisans.
He was a Boy's Own hero.
Ian Smith represented all that was best in the colonial African tradition - a Fair-Minded man who sought to do what was right.
A man of undoubted Courage, undeniable Honour and undisputed Integrity.
A plain speaking man who was good to his word.
These were Colonial virtues, the simple virtues of a frontier society.
Ian Smith embodied all these virtues.
I admired him in my youth - I still do.
Undoubtedly, he made mistakes, but he was an Honourable and Courageous man.
That much should be recognised by all by both his friends, and by his enemies.
Ian Smith Was He Right?
We then turn to the difficult question - was he right in declaring UDI and plunging Rhodesia into the Bush War?
This is not an easy question - it is particularly difficult if that period of history formed your formative years.
I do not believe that Ian Smith was a white supremacist - the term "white supremacist" has connotations of the American Deep South, or inner-City Birmingham - as a phrase it does not accurately describe Rhodesia in the 1960's and 1970's.
The motivation that underlay the declaration of UDI was not "racist".
UDI was not motivated by racial antagonism; there was no sense of inevitable racial superiority in Rhodesia.
UDI was driven by sense of anguish and betrayal.
Those who lived through UDI know how wrenching the experience was Rhodesians felt truly British, yet they were denied and betrayed by the Mother Country they loved.
I wish, and I believe he wished, that there could have been some other way.
What was, however, was.
A cruel necessity.
The Delusion
The franchise was available to all - the caveat was that there were educational and property requirements to attain that franchise.
Was this a fig leaf?
Less than a half a century before those same restraints - those same hurdles to full enfranchisement - were in place in Britain.
We were in the wilds of Africa surely a little more time made sense?
Was this a conscious self-delusion?
Probably.
It was in retrospect a denial of reality - it was also a mistake the compromise should have come earlier.
What is clear to me is that the self-delusion counters that re-writing of history that casts Ian Smith as a white supremacist, an unreconstructed racist.
To portray Ian Smith and Rhodesia as an extension of the US civil rights movement, or the equality movement in Britain, is to re-write History so that it satisfies a modern need to condemn.
It was not like that.
It was a matter of life and death.
The Aspirations of Rhodesia
Rhodesia was not motivated by a nasty vision of suppression or of inherent racism the motivation was far more complex, far more inspirational, far more insecure.
Rhodesians believed, and earnestly believed, that they were kind, compassionate, caring decent people - and they strove to live their lives exhibiting those virtues though thought and deed to all, black and white.
Rhodesians strove to build an African utopia one where all would have their place in the sun.
Rhodesians strove to be fair, aspired to good neighbourliness, hoped for a compromise.
Betrayal
It was a complex time to be living in Africa, more so if you were white.
Those of us who grew up in those times understand the fears, the anxieties, the hopes, aspirations and ideals of Rhodesia.
Rhodesians felt betrayed by a Mother Country whom our fathers had served without question when called-on, but which now treated their sons and daughters as an embarrassment, something to be discarded, ignored and sacrificed.
How do you sacrifice your children simply because it was now a convenient?
How do you just go quietly into the good night?
African colonial culture placed high value on Honour, on Courage, on ³doing the right thing², on speaking the Truth.
We viewed the expediency of Westminster as dishonourable; the actions of these sophisticated politicians were viewed with contempt, they lied, and lied, and lied.
Rhodesian values were ³colonial², they were paternalistic, and they were in many respects, misguided.
They were not, however, mean, venal or nasty.
They were values that Rhodesians lived by, values they were prepared to die by and many did.
The Right Thing
Rhodesians sought to do the right thing - the difficulty was to know "what was the right thing?"
That choice was made for them.
Rhodesians knew that people - black and white - men, women and children - were being killed.
We knew that they were being killed with a brutality that denied comprehension.
I remember as a young teenager the horror at the massacre of the survivors of the plane that was shot down who were bayoneted as they lay helpless in the burning rubble.
I remember the outrage, the helpless disbelief as the news of the attack on the mission station, of the nuns raped, of the countless cruel and barbarous tortures inflicted on helpless victims of the terrorists.
I remember the fear as dusk crept in each dark night.
Our boogie-men were real the traumor was real.
This was not an enemy you could respect they were vile, they were evil.
We could not reach an accommodation with the vision of ZAPU and ZANU.
They had no place for white colonials.
Indeed, they had no place for anyone who disagreed with them.
They were evil - it was that simple.
The Black Facts
Those who fought and died in defence of Rhodesia were both black and white Rhodesians.
Over 80% of the Rhodesian Defence forces were black.
A simple fact, a fact often forgotten.
Those who served in the Rhodesian forces were brave men, black and white.
They served Ian Smith with honour.
They, and I, will remember Ian Smith, as a man of Honour, a man of Courage, an African Hero, a true son of the British people.
Woe betide anyone who seeks to have us betray the Truth that we hold dear.
Peace to Zimbabwe
I do not believe in sanctions against Zimbabwe.
Sanctions will hurt the poorest, the weakest, and the most vulnerable.
Zimbabwe needs to be embraced by the world, not isolated.
We need to build peace and prosperity in Zimbabwe.
That can only come by reaching out.
Only by reaching out can we make the fear go away.
A free, prosperous, peaceful Zimbabwe is what Ian Smith would have wanted.
That is what we should strive for as lasting memorial to an African Hero.
Posted by: mal, Aberdeen on 11:09pm Sun 22 Jun 08
Interesting,especial
ly your view of yourself,Tories are never ones for lacking in self importance.
See the opposition in Zimbabwe have decided not to contest the run-off due to the violence of Zanu.
How do we embrace Zimbabwe now?
Interesting,especial
ly your view of yourself,Tories are never ones for lacking in self importance.
See the opposition in Zimbabwe have decided not to contest the run-off due to the violence of Zanu.
How do we embrace Zimbabwe now?
Posted by: rebuff, Jo-burg on 10:37am Mon 23 Jun 08
Horn says: "The franchise was available to all - the caveat was that there were educational and property requirements to attain that franchise."
That's ok then! Sounds exactly like the American Deep South, where blacks didn't get the vote because they didn't own property, or were not deemed intelligent enough to vote. If Smith was not a racist then why did he not conduct elections based on 'one person, one vote'?
The answer? The black majority would have made the decisions, not the white supremacists who had carved up Rhodesia and were plundering it for personal gain.
Pre-Mandela South Africa and Smith's regime were both were based on the same principle: keep black people down.
Only a racist defends either system of apartheid.
Horn says: "The franchise was available to all - the caveat was that there were educational and property requirements to attain that franchise."
That's ok then! Sounds exactly like the American Deep South, where blacks didn't get the vote because they didn't own property, or were not deemed intelligent enough to vote. If Smith was not a racist then why did he not conduct elections based on 'one person, one vote'?
The answer? The black majority would have made the decisions, not the white supremacists who had carved up Rhodesia and were plundering it for personal gain.
Pre-Mandela South Africa and Smith's regime were both were based on the same principle: keep black people down.
Only a racist defends either system of apartheid.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 11:06am Mon 23 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Philip Lardner[/bold] wrote:
I am the Philip Lardner about which Paul Hutcheon writes. Firstly, it will be interesting to see if the Sunday Herald lives up its Harare namesake and cuts this comment, or whether it is willing to allow some balance in its publications - online, if not in print. Paul Hutcheon contacted me on Friday out of the blue and I showed him the courtesy of making time on a Friday evening to discuss the current situation in Zimbabwe. I suspected, and indeed told him I suspected he could \'shaft me\' if he wanted, but that I was willing to trust him and trying to be honest about my views and beliefs on that subject. Oh what naivety! He probably had the piece written already and merely wanted some salacious soundbites, and failing to get them has added references with which to unfairly associate me. Incidentally, I was very complimentary and respectful of Katy Clark MP, who I have met several times, and I am very disappointed that she should sink to such a low. Again, very naive? Please remember this - Glasgow Airport was car-bombed last year and but for the ineptitude of the bombers we would have had tens or even hundreds of innocent dead victims. Saying Enoch Powell was \"in some small way\" right about mass immigration is hardly inflaming race relations, but merely acknowledging a truth as obvious as the world being round. I said Smith was a hero partly due to his having been shot down three times in a Spitfire whilst voluntarily serving his Queen and Country. That makes him a hero in my book, and anyone who knows anything about Smith knows he was not a \'Racist\'. I did not \'attack\' immigration - Paul Hutcheon asked for my opinion on it and I gave him an honest answer which he has used in isolation. No wonder politicians (and in my case \'would be\' politician) do not give straight answers! I gave a 40 minute explanation of my opinion on the history of Zimbabwe/Rhodesia\'s troubles and why Mugabe is such an evil tyrant, and the missed opportunities which existed in 1972 and 1976 for gradual change to majority rule. He has used nothing of this, and planned to stitch me up all along. The Sunday Herald should be doing the condemning, not David Cameron, and Paul Hutcheon should be ashamed of himself. He is obviously so devoid of genuine journalistic talent that he needs to fabricate stories from nothing to get into print and keep his job. At least I can look myself in the mirror and face God knowing I try to be a man of honour and tell the truth, as I see it - that\'s democracy and freedom. As for Paul Hutcheon? I wouldn\'t lower myself to the level of humanity he inhabits to make any comment about him. If the SH leaves this to view, I\'m content for the readers to make their own mind up about this. If it is removed, then it merely vindicates my position, and we\'re really finished as a nation. Yours, Philip Lardner [/quote] [quote]Please remember this - Glasgow Airport was car-bombed last year and but for the ineptitude of the bombers we would have had tens or even hundreds of innocent dead victims. Saying Enoch Powell was "in some small way" right about mass immigration is hardly inflaming race relations, but merely acknowledging a truth as obvious as the world being round.[/quote]
What absolute bigoted nonsense, the attempted bombing at Glasgow airport wasn't caused by immigration, it was caused by the illegal war in Iraq, the treatemnt of Muslims worldwide by America and its allies.
I was partly giving you the benefit of the doubt until I read the paragraph above, perhaps it's time to drop the pretence, get the white sheet on and the pillowcase over your head, burn a cross and get onwith some lynching
Philip Lardner wrote:
I am the Philip Lardner about which Paul Hutcheon writes. Firstly, it will be interesting to see if the Sunday Herald lives up its Harare namesake and cuts this comment, or whether it is willing to allow some balance in its publications - online, if not in print. Paul Hutcheon contacted me on Friday out of the blue and I showed him the courtesy of making time on a Friday evening to discuss the current situation in Zimbabwe. I suspected, and indeed told him I suspected he could \'shaft me\' if he wanted, but that I was willing to trust him and trying to be honest about my views and beliefs on that subject. Oh what naivety! He probably had the piece written already and merely wanted some salacious soundbites, and failing to get them has added references with which to unfairly associate me. Incidentally, I was very complimentary and respectful of Katy Clark MP, who I have met several times, and I am very disappointed that she should sink to such a low. Again, very naive? Please remember this - Glasgow Airport was car-bombed last year and but for the ineptitude of the bombers we would have had tens or even hundreds of innocent dead victims. Saying Enoch Powell was \"in some small way\" right about mass immigration is hardly inflaming race relations, but merely acknowledging a truth as obvious as the world being round. I said Smith was a hero partly due to his having been shot down three times in a Spitfire whilst voluntarily serving his Queen and Country. That makes him a hero in my book, and anyone who knows anything about Smith knows he was not a \'Racist\'. I did not \'attack\' immigration - Paul Hutcheon asked for my opinion on it and I gave him an honest answer which he has used in isolation. No wonder politicians (and in my case \'would be\' politician) do not give straight answers! I gave a 40 minute explanation of my opinion on the history of Zimbabwe/Rhodesia\'s troubles and why Mugabe is such an evil tyrant, and the missed opportunities which existed in 1972 and 1976 for gradual change to majority rule. He has used nothing of this, and planned to stitch me up all along. The Sunday Herald should be doing the condemning, not David Cameron, and Paul Hutcheon should be ashamed of himself. He is obviously so devoid of genuine journalistic talent that he needs to fabricate stories from nothing to get into print and keep his job. At least I can look myself in the mirror and face God knowing I try to be a man of honour and tell the truth, as I see it - that\'s democracy and freedom. As for Paul Hutcheon? I wouldn\'t lower myself to the level of humanity he inhabits to make any comment about him. If the SH leaves this to view, I\'m content for the readers to make their own mind up about this. If it is removed, then it merely vindicates my position, and we\'re really finished as a nation. Yours, Philip Lardner
Please remember this - Glasgow Airport was car-bombed last year and but for the ineptitude of the bombers we would have had tens or even hundreds of innocent dead victims. Saying Enoch Powell was "in some small way" right about mass immigration is hardly inflaming race relations, but merely acknowledging a truth as obvious as the world being round.
What absolute bigoted nonsense, the attempted bombing at Glasgow airport wasn't caused by immigration, it was caused by the illegal war in Iraq, the treatemnt of Muslims worldwide by America and its allies.
I was partly giving you the benefit of the doubt until I read the paragraph above, perhaps it's time to drop the pretence, get the white sheet on and the pillowcase over your head, burn a cross and get onwith some lynching
Posted by: sam, greenock on 11:11am Mon 23 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Cllr Mark Horn[/bold] wrote:
This is a very poor article by Paul Hutcheon. The aim of the article is simply to try and score trite political points. I wrote an article last year, set out below, which tries to reflect the complexity of Ian Smith and the times - there is, without doubt, a great deal to admire about Ian Smith, and it is those aspects that Philip Lardner has highlighted. Incidentally, I also have met Robert Mugabe, and he too is more complex than currently represented in the British media. Paul Hutcheon needs to do some research, he neeeds to get his facts right, and he needs to get some perspective and balance. Cllr Mark Horn (Conservative) [bold]Ian Smith - An African Hero[/bold] [italic]November 25, 2007[/italic] [bold] The Proud History of the Loser[/bold] History is not simple. It is all the harder sometimes to comprehend the conflicting ebb and flow of emotion if you lived through it. They say \"History is written by the Victor\" - perhaps so, but those who fought on the side of the Loser also have their History. That History, the feelings that inspired it, the emotions that ran through it - that History is as legitimate as the history of the Victors. It deserves to be respected, to be understood within the context of the time in which it was lived. The fallen among the Losers were also Hero\'s. More to the point - they were my Hero\'s. [bold]An African Colonial Identity[/bold] I condemn racism in any of its forms - my record on this is beyond reproach. I have a Master\'s in African history, I work extensively throughout Africa, I have a deep and abiding passion for the continent of my birth. I have always done my best for Africa. Nevertheless, I am a British African colonial - that is my cultural heritage, and the cultural nuances that come with that heritage is something I will not deny. I will not apologise for who I am. I will not forswear my identity; I will not deny my very sense of self. I am, what I am and I am proud of it. To ask that that I deny my culture is to advocate the genocide of my culture. When it comes to the assessment of Ian Smith, I would be a betrayal of my cultural heritage were I to act the Judas and not to stand up for what I know to be the truth. When the **** crows I will not turn away in shame from my betrayal of a man I admired as a child. Ian Smith was an African Hero. [bold]Plague upon our enemies[/bold] I will not stand by and keep silent as Peter Haine MP, a Labour cabinet minister and Paul Burstow MP, a Liberal Democrat, seek to establish that those who admire Ian Smith, former Prime Minister of Rhodesia are white supremacist and racist. Their presumptions, their interpretation of history, their values are wrong. When I grew up, Peter Haine, was a figure of ridicule and loathing - I still can barely stomach the man. I believed, and still do believe, that he is nothing but an opportunist - that beneath that fake sun tan there is not a man of any moral worth. I will not have him define what is good. [bold]Ian Smith Colonial Virtues[/bold] I met Ian Smith on several occasions. Like him, I am a graduate of Rhodes University in South Africa. At University, Ian Smith was a leader of the Student¹s Union, rugby and cricket blue, an exemplary student. He had, as is well known, a distinguished career in the RAF during the Second World War. Shot down twice, he spent six months with the partisans. He was a Boy\'s Own hero. Ian Smith represented all that was best in the colonial African tradition - a Fair-Minded man who sought to do what was right. A man of undoubted Courage, undeniable Honour and undisputed Integrity. A plain speaking man who was good to his word. These were Colonial virtues, the simple virtues of a frontier society. Ian Smith embodied all these virtues. I admired him in my youth - I still do. Undoubtedly, he made mistakes, but he was an Honourable and Courageous man. That much should be recognised by all by both his friends, and by his enemies. [bold]Ian Smith Was He Right?[/bold] We then turn to the difficult question - was he right in declaring UDI and plunging Rhodesia into the Bush War? This is not an easy question - it is particularly difficult if that period of history formed your formative years. I do not believe that Ian Smith was a white supremacist - the term \"white supremacist\" has connotations of the American Deep South, or inner-City Birmingham - as a phrase it does not accurately describe Rhodesia in the 1960\'s and 1970\'s. The motivation that underlay the declaration of UDI was not \"racist\". UDI was not motivated by racial antagonism; there was no sense of inevitable racial superiority in Rhodesia. UDI was driven by sense of anguish and betrayal. Those who lived through UDI know how wrenching the experience was Rhodesians felt truly British, yet they were denied and betrayed by the Mother Country they loved. I wish, and I believe he wished, that there could have been some other way. What was, however, was. A cruel necessity. [bold]The Delusion[/bold] The franchise was available to all - the caveat was that there were educational and property requir
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