Rumbles: Give Scotland full control of economy By Paul Hutcheon, Scottish Political Editor MIKE RUMBLES, the outsider candidate in the Liberal Democrat leadership contest, says he wants to see Scotland taking full control of its economy, and getting a slice of North Sea oil.
Rumbles also says he wants to clarify his party's "inconsistent" policy on referenda and believes the LibDems must overhaul their public image of being "fence-sitters".
He also criticised the LibDems' election campaign last May and said decision-making had been concentrated in the hands of the party leadership.
The LibDems face a leadership contest this summer following the resignation last week of Nicol Stephen, who stood down from the top job to spend more time with his family.
Rumbles, the MSP for Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine who lost to Stephen in the 2005 leadership contest, says he wants to make his party's policy on referenda a key issue in the debate.
The LibDems under Stephen opposed a referendum on independence and increasing the Parliament's powers.
In an interview with the Sunday Herald, Rumbles signalled he favoured putting the concept of expanding Holyrood's powers to the people: "I'll give you a clue. The name of our party: liberal and democratic.
"I very much believe in the benefits of the UK: defence, foreign affairs, international relations. But we need to be in charge of our own economic affairs, and that means full fiscal autonomy."
He backed the parliament controlling the social security system, as well as receiving a portion of North Sea oil revenues: "Just as Shetland has had a chance to benefit directly from oil revenues, so should Scotland."
He added: "I want to see controversy back in the party. I want to see us at the cutting edge of politics. I don't want us to be perceived as fence-sitters."
Rumbles could be joined in the contest by MSPs Tavish Scott, Ross Finnie and Jeremy Purvis.
An SNP spokesman said: "We welcome Mike Rumbles's comments. The first thing he did after declaring his leadership ambitions was open up the question of an independence referendum, and call for it to be decided by the LibDem members. We also very much welcome his comments on significantly increasing the Parliament's powers."
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Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 12:40am Sun 6 Jul 08
MIKE RUMBLES, the outsider candidate in the Liberal Democrat leadership contest, says he wants to see Scotland taking full control of its economy, and getting a slice of North Sea oil.
Welcome to the SNP Mike....although how you can get a slice of oil is beyond me...still it's an improvement on the few drips so graciously bestowed on us by London...
MIKE RUMBLES, the outsider candidate in the Liberal Democrat leadership contest, says he wants to see Scotland taking full control of its economy, and getting a slice of North Sea oil.
Welcome to the SNP Mike....although how you can get a slice of oil is beyond me...still it's an improvement on the few drips so graciously bestowed on us by London...
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 2:23am Sun 6 Jul 08
The Fib Dem bloodbath has begun already. Cyborg man is slow off the mark with his retort - but then Mike Rumbles has not had the Charisma and Free thought by pass that Tavish Scot had.
The Fib Dem bloodbath has begun already. Cyborg man is slow off the mark with his retort - but then Mike Rumbles has not had the Charisma and Free thought by pass that Tavish Scot had.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 7:27am Sun 6 Jul 08
Hearting news, he's realised and is saying that by holding on to slab's coat tails, that the slib's will be dragged down with them.
Rumbles is saying that he wants to grab the SNP coat tails and ride the up draft.
Hearting news, he's realised and is saying that by holding on to slab's coat tails, that the slib's will be dragged down with them.
Rumbles is saying that he wants to grab the SNP coat tails and ride the up draft.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 8:43am Sun 6 Jul 08
Why is he described as " the outsider"?
I like Mr Rumbles, I think he comes over very well , particularly when Ms Alexander resigned and some oaf from the Labour party was allowed to shoot his mouth off about the "SNP witchhunt"
Mr Rumbles gave an excellent and measured response.
Why is he described as " the outsider"?
I like Mr Rumbles, I think he comes over very well , particularly when Ms Alexander resigned and some oaf from the Labour party was allowed to shoot his mouth off about the "SNP witchhunt"
Mr Rumbles gave an excellent and measured response.
Posted by: Vote for Scotlands Future, Vote for the SNP on 9:18am Sun 6 Jul 08
Perhaps if the libDems elected Rumbles as their leader and the other opposition parties took a similar view of Scotland's future then they would all do better.
I don't know his history, but I take it that Mr Rumbles' Scottishness is new-found, sometime since May 2007 - or has it been entirely since Nicol's announcement last week.
Mr Rumbles should remember it is not the voting public he has to convince, but his own party - and I doubt he will do it with this. I see little Tavish Scott being elected, and the LibDems continuing their twilight-zone existence.
Perhaps if the libDems elected Rumbles as their leader and the other opposition parties took a similar view of Scotland's future then they would all do better.
I don't know his history, but I take it that Mr Rumbles' Scottishness is new-found, sometime since May 2007 - or has it been entirely since Nicol's announcement last week.
Mr Rumbles should remember it is not the voting public he has to convince, but his own party - and I doubt he will do it with this. I see little Tavish Scott being elected, and the LibDems continuing their twilight-zone existence.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 10:22am Sun 6 Jul 08
Only an independent Nation can control its economy. Scots would need to manage their own currency. Old Rothschild noted that the private bankers who create and issue the UK's money are always above Law and Parliament. This major defect of the Union will never get remedied. No UK party attempts these days to represent the interests of working people. UK politicians are bought people.
Only an independent Nation can control its economy. Scots would need to manage their own currency. Old Rothschild noted that the private bankers who create and issue the UK's money are always above Law and Parliament. This major defect of the Union will never get remedied. No UK party attempts these days to represent the interests of working people. UK politicians are bought people.
Posted by: Youngdegsy, Edinburgh on 11:11am Sun 6 Jul 08
Sorry to highlight this Paul, but there's an error here.
[quote]The LibDems under Stephen opposed a referendum on independence [italic]and increasing the Parliament's powers[/italic] .[/quote]
This makes it sound like the Lib Dems were opposed to both. They certainly opposed a referendum on independence, and this was the reason there were no coalition talks with the SNP last May.
But the Lib Dem policy has been to increase the Parliament's powers since it was created - most recently expressed in the Steel Commission report in 2006 (http://www.scotlibd
ems.org.uk/files/ste
elcommission.pdf). This explicitly called for powers over some taxation and revenue to be devolved - so-called fiscal federalism. When it was published, Jim Mather said:
[quote]Any move that recognises the pressing need for Scotland to gain economic control is to be welcomed ...[/quote]
He didn't agree with all of it, of course (it wasn't independence, after all), but it hardly sounds like militant unitarianism, does it?
The Steel Commission also called for certain extra policy issues to be devolved, including energy, broadcasting, marine policy, human rights, Scottish elections and the Scottish civil service. It also called for formal co-operation with Westminster on the Scottish aspects of asylum and immigration, drugs, firearms, employment law, trade competition, national security and welfare. This is a pretty substantial set of additional powers.
The Lib Dems have joined the Calman Commission to discuss more powers with the Tories and Labour, and while he was leader Nicol Stephen also ruled out any suggestion that powers of the Parliament could be returned to Westminster.
Sorry to highlight this Paul, but there's an error here.
The LibDems under Stephen opposed a referendum on independence and increasing the Parliament's powers .
This makes it sound like the Lib Dems were opposed to both. They certainly opposed a referendum on independence, and this was the reason there were no coalition talks with the SNP last May.
But the Lib Dem policy has been to increase the Parliament's powers since it was created - most recently expressed in the Steel Commission report in 2006 (http://www.scotlibd
ems.org.uk/files/ste
elcommission.pdf). This explicitly called for powers over some taxation and revenue to be devolved - so-called fiscal federalism. When it was published, Jim Mather said:
Any move that recognises the pressing need for Scotland to gain economic control is to be welcomed ...
He didn't agree with all of it, of course (it wasn't independence, after all), but it hardly sounds like militant unitarianism, does it?
The Steel Commission also called for certain extra policy issues to be devolved, including energy, broadcasting, marine policy, human rights, Scottish elections and the Scottish civil service. It also called for formal co-operation with Westminster on the Scottish aspects of asylum and immigration, drugs, firearms, employment law, trade competition, national security and welfare. This is a pretty substantial set of additional powers.
The Lib Dems have joined the Calman Commission to discuss more powers with the Tories and Labour, and while he was leader Nicol Stephen also ruled out any suggestion that powers of the Parliament could be returned to Westminster.
Posted by: S.beaton, St Cyrus on 11:16am Sun 6 Jul 08
As a constituent of Mr Rumbles, I will be reminding him of what he said on my doorstep at the last Scottish election, which was that his preferred option for the incoming Scottish Parliament was a "coalition with the SNP as our policies are much the same on many issues". I look forward to him keeping his word if he is elected leader of the Lib-Dems.
As a constituent of Mr Rumbles, I will be reminding him of what he said on my doorstep at the last Scottish election, which was that his preferred option for the incoming Scottish Parliament was a "coalition with the SNP as our policies are much the same on many issues". I look forward to him keeping his word if he is elected leader of the Lib-Dems.
Posted by: Wullie on 11:56am Sun 6 Jul 08
If Mr Rumbles now wants Scotland to have full control over the economy why is he not in the SNP.
Mr Rumbles and his party have consistently voted against SNP policy for Scotland to have control of its finances.
His conversion is to be welcomed, but to show his commitment he should consider taking the walk across to the SNP.
He would be welcome I am sure.
If Mr Rumbles now wants Scotland to have full control over the economy why is he not in the SNP.
Mr Rumbles and his party have consistently voted against SNP policy for Scotland to have control of its finances.
His conversion is to be welcomed, but to show his commitment he should consider taking the walk across to the SNP.
He would be welcome I am sure.
Posted by: billalba, fife on 1:12pm Sun 6 Jul 08
Mr Rumbles..if we have full conrol over our economy..surely that would mean that we would have all of the oil income not just a slice or does full control mean that we can have full control over the bits Westminster doesnt need.
Mr Rumbles..if we have full conrol over our economy..surely that would mean that we would have all of the oil income not just a slice or does full control mean that we can have full control over the bits Westminster doesnt need.
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 2:30pm Sun 6 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Yok Finney[/bold] wrote:
Only an independent Nation can control its economy. Scots would need to manage their own currency. Old Rothschild noted that the private bankers who create and issue the UK's money are always above Law and Parliament. This major defect of the Union will never get remedied. No UK party attempts these days to represent the interests of working people. UK politicians are bought people.[/quote] NO nation can control its economy entirely (despite the lazy prose in this article). It's just like a ship which (hopefully) takes best advantage of the conditions.
Yok Finney wrote:
Only an independent Nation can control its economy. Scots would need to manage their own currency. Old Rothschild noted that the private bankers who create and issue the UK's money are always above Law and Parliament. This major defect of the Union will never get remedied. No UK party attempts these days to represent the interests of working people. UK politicians are bought people.
NO nation can control its economy entirely (despite the lazy prose in this article). It's just like a ship which (hopefully) takes best advantage of the conditions.
Posted by: sceptic sid on 3:23pm Sun 6 Jul 08
so the lib dems are actually still in exsistence.
youngdegsy: the lib dem policy can be whatever it likes but if you don't speak up and you effectively disappear for a year no one will remember what it is you stand for.
going in to the commission was a big mistake the lib dems were probably promised the earth (as usuall) and they fell for it (as usuall)
all that has happened in the year out is the option of full fiscal autonomy has been squeezed and is no longer even talked about as an option by anyone.
the options have been polarised to the status quo or independance which leaves a very large amount of the voting public a dilema because the status quo is not acceptable but we don't think independance is right for now.
we have been badly let down by the lib dems and they need to get the finger out now.
so the lib dems are actually still in exsistence.
youngdegsy: the lib dem policy can be whatever it likes but if you don't speak up and you effectively disappear for a year no one will remember what it is you stand for.
going in to the commission was a big mistake the lib dems were probably promised the earth (as usuall) and they fell for it (as usuall)
all that has happened in the year out is the option of full fiscal autonomy has been squeezed and is no longer even talked about as an option by anyone.
the options have been polarised to the status quo or independance which leaves a very large amount of the voting public a dilema because the status quo is not acceptable but we don't think independance is right for now.
we have been badly let down by the lib dems and they need to get the finger out now.
Posted by: DougtheDug on 4:38pm Sun 6 Jul 08
[quote]"I very much believe in the benefits of the UK: defence, foreign affairs, international relations. But we need to be in charge of our own economic affairs, and that means full fiscal autonomy."[/quote] So we're smart enough to run our own economy but we're not smart enough to run our own defence forces, talk directly to other countries or have our own representation on international bodies.
I notice he also thinks that having full control over our own economy doesn't mean full control over our oil revenues. What's his position on Whisky revenue and on the VAT receipts from the oil refineries in Scotland? The usual Lib-Dem waffle.
I read the Steel Report a long time ago and it's waffle too. A simple summary of the report's economic proposals is:
1. "Full fiscal autonomy is argued by those who want to make the case for independence and the destruction of the United Kingdom". In other words full fiscal autonomy is bad and nationalist. Rumbles should have read the report before calling for full fiscal autonomy even though he doesn't quite get what it means.
2. "The Scottish Parliament should be given responsibility for all taxes except for those reserved to the UK." Except they never get around to saying which taxes are reserved for the UK in the report. I think that we can take it as read that any revenues from oil will go straight to London.
They're unionists, but in Scotland they want to position themselves between the SNP and Labour rather between the Tories and Labour as they do in England so it's a balancing act on the fence where they have to call for more powers for Holyrood while avoiding the logical conclusion of independence.
I'll say it again, Lib-Dem Waffle.
"I very much believe in the benefits of the UK: defence, foreign affairs, international relations. But we need to be in charge of our own economic affairs, and that means full fiscal autonomy."
So we're smart enough to run our own economy but we're not smart enough to run our own defence forces, talk directly to other countries or have our own representation on international bodies.
I notice he also thinks that having full control over our own economy doesn't mean full control over our oil revenues. What's his position on Whisky revenue and on the VAT receipts from the oil refineries in Scotland? The usual Lib-Dem waffle.
I read the Steel Report a long time ago and it's waffle too. A simple summary of the report's economic proposals is:
1. "Full fiscal autonomy is argued by those who want to make the case for independence and the destruction of the United Kingdom". In other words full fiscal autonomy is bad and nationalist. Rumbles should have read the report before calling for full fiscal autonomy even though he doesn't quite get what it means.
2. "The Scottish Parliament should be given responsibility for all taxes except for those reserved to the UK." Except they never get around to saying which taxes are reserved for the UK in the report. I think that we can take it as read that any revenues from oil will go straight to London.
They're unionists, but in Scotland they want to position themselves between the SNP and Labour rather between the Tories and Labour as they do in England so it's a balancing act on the fence where they have to call for more powers for Holyrood while avoiding the logical conclusion of independence.
I'll say it again, Lib-Dem Waffle.
Posted by: Andy, Glasgow on 10:45pm Sun 6 Jul 08
Well I hope Rumbles is elected - he is challenging both his party to change tactics and the SNP to change their approach to the LibDems - Nicola Stephen has them tied to Scotlabs sinking ship so maybe its time for them to be more nationalistic and support some SNP policies.
However if they stick with the same old same old then I fear Rumbles will be rumbled
Well I hope Rumbles is elected - he is challenging both his party to change tactics and the SNP to change their approach to the LibDems - Nicola Stephen has them tied to Scotlabs sinking ship so maybe its time for them to be more nationalistic and support some SNP policies.
However if they stick with the same old same old then I fear Rumbles will be rumbled
Posted by: dave on 11:01pm Sun 6 Jul 08
Does Rumbles really expect us to believe that Scotland benefits from Englands foreign affairs and defence policies?
Does Rumbles really expect us to believe that Scotland benefits from Englands foreign affairs and defence policies?
Posted by: Christian Allard, West Aberdeenshire on 11:35am Mon 7 Jul 08
I am too a constituent of Mike Rumbles and I can tell you that he never did represent his party, he always represented himself. He never agreed with the Lib Dem coalition with Labour. Now that his party refused to go with the SNP, he claims that he would share power to seat in the Scottish Government. I did not believe him then, I don't believe him now. As this paper said a week ago, Mike Rumbles is the political version of Tourette syndrome, he just goes on and on.
I am too a constituent of Mike Rumbles and I can tell you that he never did represent his party, he always represented himself. He never agreed with the Lib Dem coalition with Labour. Now that his party refused to go with the SNP, he claims that he would share power to seat in the Scottish Government. I did not believe him then, I don't believe him now. As this paper said a week ago, Mike Rumbles is the political version of Tourette syndrome, he just goes on and on.
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