After poll disaster Labour dumps referendum support Four Candidates enter battle for Holyrood leadership ... and only one backs Wendy's stanceBy Paul Hutcheon, Scottish Political Editor SCOTTISH LABOUR will try to move on from its shattering loss in the Glasgow East by-election by ditching former leader Wendy Alexander's policy
of supporting a referendum on
independence.
The three leading candidates to succeed Alexander - former Health Minister Andy Kerr, deputy leader Cathy Jamieson, and East Lothian MSP Iain Gray - are all opposed to backing a snap vote on breaking up the United Kingdom. Only Charlie Gordon, who also wants to become a candidate, is in favour of a referendum, while rank outsider Ken Macintosh MSP is unlikely to get the required support to stand for the internal contest.
Labour across the UK and Prime Minister Gordon Brown are in crisis after losing the Glasgow East by-election last week to the SNP.
But the Scottish party, which took the defeat particularly badly, is set for months of disunity when the race to succeed Alexander starts this week.
Alexander quit as Labour's Holyrood chief last month after the Parliament's Standards Committee found her guilty of breaking MSP rules on the non-declaration of donations.
Kerr, Jamieson and Gray are all thought to have garnered the six MSP signatures required to enter the race, while Gordon and Macintosh are still seeking support.
The Sunday Herald has established that the three front-runners are all opposed to Alexander's policy of supporting a referendum on Scottish independence - a stance she adopted to much criticism.
Kerr, who will launch his campaign later this week, was reported earlier this month as being in favour of a referendum, but it is understood he does not support a poll on separation and will seek to correct the speculation.
In an article for the Sunday Herald, he stated: "The truth is Salmond and his cohorts want to shatter Scots' confidence. Like a poisonous gossip, he whispers that the neighbours are out to get us - but if we stick with him, we'll be okay."
Jamieson will launch her campaign tomorrow in front of local activists in Ayrshire, and she too is known to be against the Alexander policy.
A source close to the deputy leader said Jamieson would "not be advocating" a poll on independence.
The left-wing MSP will instead focus on listening to the concerns of trade unionists and the party's grassroots.
Gray, who was Alexander's finance spokesman, also plans to ditch support for a referendum if he wins the contest.
In a statement released yesterday, he said: "To win back the trust of voters I believe we must make sure that we stay focused on what matters to them. By offering a fresh approach and by working together as a party, we can hold the SNP administration to account more effectively, regaining the trust of people across Scotland."
Meanwhile, Gordon, who solicited the dodgy donation that bedevilled Alexander's leadership, has broken his silence on the affair.
In a wide-ranging interview to launch his leadership bid, the Glasgow Cathcart MSP produced emails which appear to show he did not attempt to cover up the £950 donation from Jersey businessman Paul Green.
He said of Team Alexander's fund-raising strategy: "When we first started talking about fund-raising at one of Wendy's early campaign team meetings, somebody said get donations, and as long as they are under £1000 then people can retain their privacy and anonymity'."
On why the personal donation was registered in the name of a firm, Combined Property Services, he said: "I was asked a question, I think by treasurer David Whitton, who never explained why he was asking the question.
"He said, what's the name of Paul Green's Scottish company?', and I said Combined Property Services in Bath Street', because I knew he based himself there when he was in town.
"Nobody said to me, here's why we need to know the address of Paul Green's company'."
He was later cleared by the Electoral Commission of disguising the donation, of which he said: "Anyone who says I was involved in a cover up has got it wrong."
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Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 11:35pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Well, colour me astonished - not.
It's too late, though. The expectation that there will be a referendum on independence on 30th November 2010 is becoming accepted, and woe betide any Labour politician who now tries to rob the people of their say.
A "snap referendum" was never a possibility. This decision needs proper debate and space for reflection. It is not a political games token, although Wendy tried to make it one. What is at stake is support for SNP policy relating to 2010. Labour witholds that at its peril.
Well, colour me astonished - not.
It's too late, though. The expectation that there will be a referendum on independence on 30th November 2010 is becoming accepted, and woe betide any Labour politician who now tries to rob the people of their say.
A "snap referendum" was never a possibility. This decision needs proper debate and space for reflection. It is not a political games token, although Wendy tried to make it one. What is at stake is support for SNP policy relating to 2010. Labour witholds that at its peril.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:41pm Sat 26 Jul 08
[quote]After poll disaster Labour dumps referendum support[/quote]
Really? Well I never...
Andy Kerr said:
[quote]"The truth is Salmond and his cohorts want to shatter Scots' confidence. Like a poisonous gossip, he whispers that the neighbours are out to get us - but if we stick with him, we'll be okay."[/quote]
Been doing any Herald blogging during the school hols Andy? All sounds very familiar.
The confindence of the people of Scotland is soaring Andy. What did you do for us?
After poll disaster Labour dumps referendum support
Really? Well I never...
Andy Kerr said:
"The truth is Salmond and his cohorts want to shatter Scots' confidence. Like a poisonous gossip, he whispers that the neighbours are out to get us - but if we stick with him, we'll be okay."
Been doing any Herald blogging during the school hols Andy? All sounds very familiar.
The confindence of the people of Scotland is soaring Andy. What did you do for us?
Posted by: Scotfree, Erskine on 11:46pm Sat 26 Jul 08
So the Herald, true to the rest of the Scottish media, leads on its concern for the future of the labour party, a party which its own calculations (of one MP) is moving from effective to utter irrelevance to Scotland’s future. Old habits die hard, but die they must if the current Scottish media and their correspondents are to have a place in Scotland’s future.
So the Herald, true to the rest of the Scottish media, leads on its concern for the future of the labour party, a party which its own calculations (of one MP) is moving from effective to utter irrelevance to Scotland’s future. Old habits die hard, but die they must if the current Scottish media and their correspondents are to have a place in Scotland’s future.
Posted by: Arthur Teak, Glasgow on 11:47pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Oh for goodness sake! Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Iain Gray, Charlie Gordon? The same old West of Scotland Labour Establishment (WOSLE) types who have singularly failed before; have taken their natural electorate for granted; stuck their snouts deeply in the trough and dumped every 'socialist' principle in favour of the New Labour con. When are the WOSLE lot going to realise that they and their outmoded ideas are now history and that they are [italic]not[/italic] going to win the labour party power in Scotland, again?
Oh for goodness sake! Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Iain Gray, Charlie Gordon? The same old West of Scotland Labour Establishment (WOSLE) types who have singularly failed before; have taken their natural electorate for granted; stuck their snouts deeply in the trough and dumped every 'socialist' principle in favour of the New Labour con. When are the WOSLE lot going to realise that they and their outmoded ideas are now history and that they are
not going to win the labour party power in Scotland, again?
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:47pm Sat 26 Jul 08
What a lamentable Leadership list
Anyone got any other nuggets of interest to add to this lamentable list
[bold]Andy Kerr[/bold]
Was found to have breached the MSP code with regards to Registered Interests/Gifts
Presided over the discredited centralisation and closing of A+E's
Presided over growing prison population and prison overcrowding
Advocate, Architect & Defender of £50Billion PFI Profit
Failed to tackle under age drinking.
[bold]Cathy Jamieson[/bold]
Possible Mole in Wendy's Team
Presided over growing prison population and prison overcrowding
Presided over expensive and failed electronic tagging and ASBO's
Blunders in the privatised prison escort service
Was Minister who blocked Shirley Mckee Public Inquiry
Failing to clarify the Council Tax Reform Proposals in Labour;s 2007 Manifesto
[bold]Ian Gray[/bold]
Defeated in 2003 and then re-elcted for a different constituency
Hardine Advocate of PFI, Special Advisor to Alistair Darling
Was ridiculed on newsnight for trying to defence Wendy Alexander.
Ardent critics of the fair LIT and SFT
[bold]Charlie Gordon[/bold]
Apologised for soliciting illegal donations for Wendy's Campaign.
Not a hope in Hell
[bold]Ken Macintosh[/bold]
Forced to resign in 2005 from the standards committee after he failed to register a trip.
Lead the move to ban children from tanning salons, Tommy Sheridan's idea, SNP Delivered
What a lamentable Leadership list
Anyone got any other nuggets of interest to add to this lamentable list
Andy Kerr
Was found to have breached the MSP code with regards to Registered Interests/Gifts
Presided over the discredited centralisation and closing of A+E's
Presided over growing prison population and prison overcrowding
Advocate, Architect & Defender of £50Billion PFI Profit
Failed to tackle under age drinking.
Cathy Jamieson
Possible Mole in Wendy's Team
Presided over growing prison population and prison overcrowding
Presided over expensive and failed electronic tagging and ASBO's
Blunders in the privatised prison escort service
Was Minister who blocked Shirley Mckee Public Inquiry
Failing to clarify the Council Tax Reform Proposals in Labour;s 2007 Manifesto
Ian Gray
Defeated in 2003 and then re-elcted for a different constituency
Hardine Advocate of PFI, Special Advisor to Alistair Darling
Was ridiculed on newsnight for trying to defence Wendy Alexander.
Ardent critics of the fair LIT and SFT
Charlie Gordon
Apologised for soliciting illegal donations for Wendy's Campaign.
Not a hope in Hell
Ken Macintosh
Forced to resign in 2005 from the standards committee after he failed to register a trip.
Lead the move to ban children from tanning salons, Tommy Sheridan's idea, SNP Delivered
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:49pm Sat 26 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Arthur Teak[/bold] wrote:
Oh for goodness sake! Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Iain Gray, Charlie Gordon? The same old West of Scotland Labour Establishment (WOSLE) types who have singularly failed before; have taken their natural electorate for granted; stuck their snouts deeply in the trough and dumped every 'socialist' principle in favour of the New Labour con. When are the WOSLE lot going to realise that they and their outmoded ideas are now history and that they are [italic]not[/italic] going to win the labour party power in Scotland, again?[/quote]
Isn't it interesting that as the SNP begin the process of tackling the labour myopia in Glasgow, the Labour party should choose to retrench into their west of Scotland siege mentality.
Labour supporters must be cacking themselves at the prospect of any of these people taking the helm. The top two are already tainted with the previous administration and Ian Gray is a proven failure.
Arthur Teak wrote:
Oh for goodness sake! Andy Kerr, Cathy Jamieson, Iain Gray, Charlie Gordon? The same old West of Scotland Labour Establishment (WOSLE) types who have singularly failed before; have taken their natural electorate for granted; stuck their snouts deeply in the trough and dumped every 'socialist' principle in favour of the New Labour con. When are the WOSLE lot going to realise that they and their outmoded ideas are now history and that they are not going to win the labour party power in Scotland, again?
Isn't it interesting that as the SNP begin the process of tackling the labour myopia in Glasgow, the Labour party should choose to retrench into their west of Scotland siege mentality.
Labour supporters must be cacking themselves at the prospect of any of these people taking the helm. The top two are already tainted with the previous administration and Ian Gray is a proven failure.
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 11:49pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Truth is Labour do not know what direction to turn.
We are supposed to be dumb animals following meekly , bowing to their greater understanding.
But in a constituency with a lower life expectancy than the Gaza strip , voters have shown at last they have minds of their own.
Labour leaderless and clueless can only stand and watch as their meal ticket voters leave in droves.
Truth is Labour do not know what direction to turn.
We are supposed to be dumb animals following meekly , bowing to their greater understanding.
But in a constituency with a lower life expectancy than the Gaza strip , voters have shown at last they have minds of their own.
Labour leaderless and clueless can only stand and watch as their meal ticket voters leave in droves.
Posted by: Monty Furk, Republic of Scotland on 11:51pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Oh let's hope Charlie Boy becomes SLAB's new poisoned chalice leader, or Screechy Jamieson...
They don't like it up 'em:
http://tinyurl.com/5
6keo5
:O)
Oh let's hope Charlie Boy becomes SLAB's new poisoned chalice leader, or Screechy Jamieson...
They don't like it up 'em:
http://tinyurl.com/5
6keo5
:O)
Posted by: democrate, central Scotland on 11:51pm Sat 26 Jul 08
More dross from New Labour; more easy fun at FMQ's. No opposition to the SNP - another gift.
More dross from New Labour; more easy fun at FMQ's. No opposition to the SNP - another gift.
Posted by: Steve A, Independence is on its way on 11:51pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Historic snp victory being ignored by Scotland's media ,why the obsession with a bunch of liebour losers ?
What a bunch of ding-a-lings ! FFS
Historic snp victory being ignored by Scotland's media ,why the obsession with a bunch of liebour losers ?
What a bunch of ding-a-lings ! FFS
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie, Orkney on 11:53pm Sat 26 Jul 08
We could get a UK general election fairly soon.
New Labour Sleaze wouldn't have the nerve to impose another unelected PM would they???
The SNP's best weapon is the people who support the party, who were out on the streets of Glasgow East spreading the word. If we can keep up the momentum, we can achieve anything, despite the negative Unionist press and media.
No one paid any attention to them, despite their scare stories and downright lies.
[bold]Just remember how Glenn Campbell behaved and how much people listened to his outpouring of drivel and bile.[/bold]
There is also more to come on the corruption angle. I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We could get a UK general election fairly soon.
New Labour Sleaze wouldn't have the nerve to impose another unelected PM would they???
The SNP's best weapon is the people who support the party, who were out on the streets of Glasgow East spreading the word. If we can keep up the momentum, we can achieve anything, despite the negative Unionist press and media.
No one paid any attention to them, despite their scare stories and downright lies.
Just remember how Glenn Campbell behaved and how much people listened to his outpouring of drivel and bile.
There is also more to come on the corruption angle. I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: subrosa on 11:55pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Posted by: Monty Furk, Republic of Scotland on 11:55pm Sat 26 Jul 08
The Sunday Herald/Herald's software is crap, deliberately breaks up links.
[quote]http://tinyurl.com/5
6keo5
or just
tinyurl.com/56keo5[/quote]
The Sunday Herald/Herald's software is crap, deliberately breaks up links.
http://tinyurl.com/5
6keo5
or just
tinyurl.com/56keo5
Posted by: GORDON NICOl, Shanghai on 11:56pm Sat 26 Jul 08
I can not understand why there is not a balanced media in Scotland, WHY?
I can not understand why there is not a balanced media in Scotland, WHY?
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:57pm Sat 26 Jul 08
Forget retrenching for New Labour. It will be straight to the bunker of denial.
Union flag comfort blankies and we red flags to position on yesterday's maps.
Forget retrenching for New Labour. It will be straight to the bunker of denial.
Union flag comfort blankies and we red flags to position on yesterday's maps.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 11:57pm Sat 26 Jul 08
This from Alex Salmond's article elsewhere in this issue.
[quote]Labour are still committed, at least in theory, to supporting a referendum on independence, and no doubt their leadership candidates will attempt to bring some clarity to the constitutional chaos created by Wendy Alexander. One consequence of the SNP's victory in Glasgow East is that it will be politically impossible for Labour to stand in the way of a free and fair vote on Scotland's future in 2010.[/quote]Exactly.
This from Alex Salmond's article elsewhere in this issue.
Labour are still committed, at least in theory, to supporting a referendum on independence, and no doubt their leadership candidates will attempt to bring some clarity to the constitutional chaos created by Wendy Alexander. One consequence of the SNP's victory in Glasgow East is that it will be politically impossible for Labour to stand in the way of a free and fair vote on Scotland's future in 2010.
Exactly.
Posted by: Archie on 11:59pm Sat 26 Jul 08
They never supported a referendum in the first place, it was just another brazen, unintelligent, stupid attempt to con the public and was not agreed and was at odds with Broon of London who was, is and will be against it.
Please get yer facts correct.
There is NO Scottish Labour Party.
And it was NOT a poll disaster, quite the opposite, in fact.
So stick that in yer pipe.
Next Please.
They never supported a referendum in the first place, it was just another brazen, unintelligent, stupid attempt to con the public and was not agreed and was at odds with Broon of London who was, is and will be against it.
Please get yer facts correct.
There is NO Scottish Labour Party.
And it was NOT a poll disaster, quite the opposite, in fact.
So stick that in yer pipe.
Next Please.
Posted by: QAZ, Edinburgh on Sun 27 Jul 08
Iain Gray, on the infamous Newsnicht:
Gray> What we want is to have this question dealt with-
Brewer> We know you want it dealt with; you want it dealt with by having a referendum, right?
Gray> I want it, yes, I want it dealt with for an important reason which two of your contributors put to you, which is that the uncertainty which is the fact that this question dominates...
Brewer> We understand that..
Gray> ...does damage to scotland.
I note now that Iain Gray doesn't support a referendum. Has the uncertainty become much more certain? Has the damage ceased? Is that reason for wanting one not important any more? Does that mean something different in Portuguese? Because you speak portuguese!
Iain Gray, on the infamous Newsnicht:
Gray> What we want is to have this question dealt with-
Brewer> We know you want it dealt with; you want it dealt with by having a referendum, right?
Gray> I want it, yes, I want it dealt with for an important reason which two of your contributors put to you, which is that the uncertainty which is the fact that this question dominates...
Brewer> We understand that..
Gray> ...does damage to scotland.
I note now that Iain Gray doesn't support a referendum. Has the uncertainty become much more certain? Has the damage ceased? Is that reason for wanting one not important any more? Does that mean something different in Portuguese? Because you speak portuguese!
Posted by: Archie on 12:01am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]GORDON NICOl[/bold] wrote:
I can not understand why there is not a balanced media in Scotland, WHY?[/quote] Cos they are NOT Scottish.
GORDON NICOl wrote:
I can not understand why there is not a balanced media in Scotland, WHY?
Cos they are NOT Scottish.
Posted by: jim mitchell, Sauchie, Clack's on 12:03am Sun 27 Jul 08
Six of them after the leadership, why does the term 'like ferrets in a sack', come to mind?
Six of them after the leadership, why does the term 'like ferrets in a sack', come to mind?
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 12:05am Sun 27 Jul 08
Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be??
That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be??
That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
Posted by: DialMforMurdo on 12:07am Sun 27 Jul 08
[bold]Hypocrites[/bold]
Surprised Curran hasn't thrown her hat in the ring.
Hypocrites
Surprised Curran hasn't thrown her hat in the ring.
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 12:08am Sun 27 Jul 08
The names in the 'race' for leardership of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) are eyewatering.
Not one of them with a shred of dignity, decency or principle. Fighting to get to the front of the trough.
Well the Scottish people have finally seen you all for what you really are.
Roll on general election day.
You're going to get one h*ll of a kicking.
The names in the 'race' for leardership of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) are eyewatering.
Not one of them with a shred of dignity, decency or principle. Fighting to get to the front of the trough.
Well the Scottish people have finally seen you all for what you really are.
Roll on general election day.
You're going to get one h*ll of a kicking.
Posted by: Jimbo on 12:10am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] [quote]Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.[/quote]
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
subrosa wrote:
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 12:14am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jimmy the Pie[/bold] wrote:
Any word on when \"Britishness Day\" is to be??
That\'ll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won\'t it????????[/quote] As would Broon's other idea of parading soldiers in uniform at Football matches. That, had it happened, would have gone down well at a certain stadium within the Glasgow east constituency. Oh, yes, Gordon, a real vote winner you have there!
Jimmy the Pie wrote:
Any word on when \"Britishness Day\" is to be??
That\'ll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won\'t it????????
As would Broon's other idea of parading soldiers in uniform at Football matches. That, had it happened, would have gone down well at a certain stadium within the Glasgow east constituency. Oh, yes, Gordon, a real vote winner you have there!
Posted by: Steve A, Independence is on its way on 12:15am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]DialMforMurdo[/bold] wrote:
[bold]Hypocrites[/bold] Surprised Curran hasn't thrown her hat in the ring. [/quote] If she did it would be a big black pointy wan wi a big D oan it ! aaarrrggggg
DialMforMurdo wrote:
Hypocrites Surprised Curran hasn't thrown her hat in the ring.
If she did it would be a big black pointy wan wi a big D oan it ! aaarrrggggg
Posted by: DialMforMurdo on 12:18am Sun 27 Jul 08
Steve, not that I condone this sort of thing but....
http://tinyurl.com/5
w3c7f
Steve, not that I condone this sort of thing but....
http://tinyurl.com/5
w3c7f
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:19am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] [quote]Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.[/quote] tinyurl.com/6hhz88 [/quote] Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government.
Jimbo wrote:
subrosa wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government.
Posted by: kevi o'leary, Dublin,Eire on 12:23am Sun 27 Jul 08
Margaret Curran's speech again should how Scottish Labour Politicans are so arrogant.They think they have the God Given Right to Run Scotland well NEVER again.As for those fools who still vote Labour wake up and smell the coffee Scotland WILL be Independent.
Margaret Curran's speech again should how Scottish Labour Politicans are so arrogant.They think they have the God Given Right to Run Scotland well NEVER again.As for those fools who still vote Labour wake up and smell the coffee Scotland WILL be Independent.
Posted by: seannair, Oban on 12:24am Sun 27 Jul 08
I don't think it much matters what the current Labour Party policy is towards a referendum or, for that matter, on any other topic. Policy appears to develop and disappear overnight without any reference to members or debate.The leadership of the party appears to despise its members and its supporters and that is why it could lose even supposed strongholds like the East End of Glasgow. The Scottish (sic) Labour Party truly does not appear to have any coherent vision or purpose other than the pursuit of power and money.
Reportage from our Scottish media is a similar mystery with so few political commentators prepared to look under the large flat stones of nepotism and corruption that litter the wastelands. Michael Crick revealed more about the rot within Scottish Labour in a 24 hour visit than the likes of Douglas Fraser, Lorainne Davidson, Fiona Ross, Angus MacLeod or Glenn Campbell have in the past few years. Truth will eventually out but it is depressingly evident we are as badly served by our press as we are by the politicians who have been running the show for decades.
The Labour Party gives all the appearance of being terminally ill and our press and broadcast media look to be in the same condition.
I don't think it much matters what the current Labour Party policy is towards a referendum or, for that matter, on any other topic. Policy appears to develop and disappear overnight without any reference to members or debate.The leadership of the party appears to despise its members and its supporters and that is why it could lose even supposed strongholds like the East End of Glasgow. The Scottish (sic) Labour Party truly does not appear to have any coherent vision or purpose other than the pursuit of power and money.
Reportage from our Scottish media is a similar mystery with so few political commentators prepared to look under the large flat stones of nepotism and corruption that litter the wastelands. Michael Crick revealed more about the rot within Scottish Labour in a 24 hour visit than the likes of Douglas Fraser, Lorainne Davidson, Fiona Ross, Angus MacLeod or Glenn Campbell have in the past few years. Truth will eventually out but it is depressingly evident we are as badly served by our press as we are by the politicians who have been running the show for decades.
The Labour Party gives all the appearance of being terminally ill and our press and broadcast media look to be in the same condition.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:25am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] mmmm.... concerning.
I'd rather he got the bill passed on the basis that it would could be rolled out if Westminster agrees to Scotland retaining it's CTB, it would lend more weight to the argument.
subrosa wrote:
Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
mmmm.... concerning.
I'd rather he got the bill passed on the basis that it would could be rolled out if Westminster agrees to Scotland retaining it's CTB, it would lend more weight to the argument.
Posted by: Vote for Scotlands Future, Vote for the SNP on 12:26am Sun 27 Jul 08
Labour Leadership Race - LibDem Leadership Race. After Thursday, both have taken on the same relevance to the voters of Scotland. Who cares. We will however get it stuffed down our throat by the Labour biased/ Anti-SNP Scottish Press.
Labour Leadership Race - LibDem Leadership Race. After Thursday, both have taken on the same relevance to the voters of Scotland. Who cares. We will however get it stuffed down our throat by the Labour biased/ Anti-SNP Scottish Press.
Posted by: Steve A, Independence is on its way on 12:29am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] [quote]Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.[/quote] tinyurl.com/6hhz88 [/quote] Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government. [/quote] Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time .
Keep the faith alex is a winner !
nouveauxscum wrote:
Jimbo wrote: subrosa wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government.
Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time .
Keep the faith alex is a winner !
Posted by: JWil on 12:31am Sun 27 Jul 08
Isn't Salmond's tactic to cause more political damage to Labour by stopping the LIT project?
Labour are kidding themselves if they think think they can move back from their present situation, but they might be presuaded to release the money if they think they can gain from doing it. However, if they don't play ball now they must realise that the are well down the road to political oblivion.
It's London dancing to a Scottish jig that Salmond promised us.
Isn't Salmond's tactic to cause more political damage to Labour by stopping the LIT project?
Labour are kidding themselves if they think think they can move back from their present situation, but they might be presuaded to release the money if they think they can gain from doing it. However, if they don't play ball now they must realise that the are well down the road to political oblivion.
It's London dancing to a Scottish jig that Salmond promised us.
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 12:31am Sun 27 Jul 08
Labour is in its death throws and it is lashing out at everybody amd anything in it s sights!
Demonstrating its anti democratic and totalitarian nature!They are indeed Thatchers children!
Labour is in its death throws and it is lashing out at everybody amd anything in it s sights!
Demonstrating its anti democratic and totalitarian nature!They are indeed Thatchers children!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:32am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Steve A[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] [quote]Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.[/quote] tinyurl.com/6hhz88 [/quote] Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government. [/quote] Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time . Keep the faith alex is a winner ![/quote] Exactly Steve.
Similar train of thought.
Steve A wrote:
nouveauxscum wrote: Jimbo wrote: subrosa wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government.
Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time . Keep the faith alex is a winner !
Exactly Steve.
Similar train of thought.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:38am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]kevi o'leary[/bold] wrote:
Margaret Curran's speech again should how Scottish Labour Politicans are so arrogant.They think they have the God Given Right to Run Scotland well NEVER again.As for those fools who still vote Labour wake up and smell the coffee Scotland WILL be Independent.[/quote] Kev,
I'm not sure arrogance is appropriate for them anymore. Plain old fashioned dyed-in-the-wool thick might be more suitable these days.
kevi o'leary wrote:
Margaret Curran's speech again should how Scottish Labour Politicans are so arrogant.They think they have the God Given Right to Run Scotland well NEVER again.As for those fools who still vote Labour wake up and smell the coffee Scotland WILL be Independent.
Kev,
I'm not sure arrogance is appropriate for them anymore. Plain old fashioned dyed-in-the-wool thick might be more suitable these days.
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 12:38am Sun 27 Jul 08
The SNP are afraid of nothing that the halfwits at New Labour Sleaze can throw at them.
The dinasour is in it's death throes and I'm loving every minute of it.
When does Joke head off for Malawi, or has that been binned to save Comrade Broon any more embarrasment???
Do tell us!
The SNP are afraid of nothing that the halfwits at New Labour Sleaze can throw at them.
The dinasour is in it's death throes and I'm loving every minute of it.
When does Joke head off for Malawi, or has that been binned to save Comrade Broon any more embarrasment???
Do tell us!
Posted by: Davidend, Scotland on 12:39am Sun 27 Jul 08
The problem is that the SNP does not have a clear majority or a coalition pact so they are walking a tightrope, All the bwoken pwomises are a result of this. The SNP must demand from Westminster the same global sum as in previous years and if it is not given then sue for independence. [bold]Scotland must get its fair share.[/bold]
The problem is that the SNP does not have a clear majority or a coalition pact so they are walking a tightrope, All the bwoken pwomises are a result of this. The SNP must demand from Westminster the same global sum as in previous years and if it is not given then sue for independence.
Scotland must get its fair share. Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:39am Sun 27 Jul 08
Paul Hutcheon[quote]SCOTTISH LABOUR will try to move on from its shattering loss in the Glasgow East by-election by ditching former leader Wendy Alexander's policy of supporting&
#8194;a refere
ndum on independence.[/quote][bold]This is Labour listening?[/bold]
Labour close down on the aspirations of an enlightened section of Scottish society, represented by an elected government, and they call that listening, and learning lessons?
Has Labour suddenly discovered a sense humour?
Paul Hutcheon
SCOTTISH LABOUR will try to move on from its shattering loss in the Glasgow East by-election by ditching former leader Wendy Alexander's policy of supporting&
#8194;a refere
ndum on independence.
This is Labour listening?
Labour close down on the aspirations of an enlightened section of Scottish society, represented by an elected government, and they call that listening, and learning lessons?
Has Labour suddenly discovered a sense humour?
Posted by: Steve A, Independence is on its way on 12:39am Sun 27 Jul 08
nouveauxscum
Speaking of trains Liebour must feel as though the have been run over by the flying Scotsman !
HA HA HA Times they are a changing !
nouveauxscum
Speaking of trains Liebour must feel as though the have been run over by the flying Scotsman !
HA HA HA Times they are a changing !
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:40am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Steve A[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.[/quote] [quote]Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.[/quote] tinyurl.com/6hhz88 [/quote] Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government. [/quote] Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time .
Keep the faith alex is a winner ![/quote]
Aye agreed.
LIT will be a huge vote winner in the run up to the referendum....
Steve A wrote:
nouveauxscum wrote:
Jimbo wrote: subrosa wrote: Sunday Times reporting Alex Salmond is dropping the LIT policy.
Alex Salmond is preparing to ditch his flagship plan to scrap the council tax following threats by the Westminster government that it will cut a £400m grant to Scotland if he presses ahead.
tinyurl.com/6hhz88
Can't see the First Minister giving in so easily on Westminster's refusal to release Scottish taxpayer's money to the Scottish Government.
Softly Softly catch a monkey ! Have you any idea how bad alex salmond will make westmonster look over this in the coming months ? Seems to me they are taking the bait every time .
Keep the faith alex is a winner !
Aye agreed.
LIT will be a huge vote winner in the run up to the referendum....
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:43am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Steve A[/bold] wrote:
nouveauxscum Speaking of trains Liebour must feel as though the have been run over by the flying Scotsman ! HA HA HA Times they are a changing ![/quote] Global economy flying Scotsman if you don't mind Steve. lol
Steve A wrote:
nouveauxscum Speaking of trains Liebour must feel as though the have been run over by the flying Scotsman ! HA HA HA Times they are a changing !
Global economy flying Scotsman if you don't mind Steve. lol
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:44am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Paul Hutcheon[quote]SCOTTISH LABOUR will try to move on from its shattering loss in the Glasgow East by-election by ditching former leader Wendy Alexander's policy of supporting&
#8194;a refere
ndum on independence.[/quote][bold]This is Labour listening?[/bold]
Labour close down on the aspirations of an enlightened section of Scottish society, represented by an elected government, and they call that listening, and learning lessons?
Has Labour suddenly discovered a sense humour?
[/quote]
They are retrenching into their ideological war with liberal nationalism, the same piish that the [italic]'alarmists[/italic] ' post on here and the herald every day.
If they think that is going to impress the average liberal minded Scottish voter, they really are deluded.. Their Glasgow East camping lacked any concrete policies, indeed the posters on these comments pages were either unable or unwilling to either defence the labour government's record or indeed their current policies.....
I think Kerr et all see their heartland vote dying and are seeking to re-establish some link with them, this at the expensive of connecting with the wider Scottish electorate will condemn them to years in the wilderness.
Prepare to see Andy Kerr tripping over on a beach soon....
[quote]We're alrite....we'll alrite....oh dear[/quote]
[italic]Your heard it here first[/italic]
Los Angeles wrote:
Paul HutcheonSCOTTISH LABOUR will try to move on from its shattering loss in the Glasgow East by-election by ditching former leader Wendy Alexander's policy of supporting&
#8194;a refere
ndum on independence.
This is Labour listening?
Labour close down on the aspirations of an enlightened section of Scottish society, represented by an elected government, and they call that listening, and learning lessons?
Has Labour suddenly discovered a sense humour?
They are retrenching into their ideological war with liberal nationalism, the same piish that the
'alarmists ' post on here and the herald every day.
If they think that is going to impress the average liberal minded Scottish voter, they really are deluded.. Their Glasgow East camping lacked any concrete policies, indeed the posters on these comments pages were either unable or unwilling to either defence the labour government's record or indeed their current policies.....
I think Kerr et all see their heartland vote dying and are seeking to re-establish some link with them, this at the expensive of connecting with the wider Scottish electorate will condemn them to years in the wilderness.
Prepare to see Andy Kerr tripping over on a beach soon....
We're alrite....we'll alrite....oh dear
Your heard it here first
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:47am Sun 27 Jul 08
[bold]ha ha ha ha ha[/bold]
The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems.
McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
ha ha ha ha ha
The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems.
McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
Posted by: indyleith, Edinburgh on 12:49am Sun 27 Jul 08
The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland.
What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East.
Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.
The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland.
What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East.
Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.
Posted by: Steve A, Independence is on its way on 12:50am Sun 27 Jul 08
If he does wardog he will be a big beached whale just like the liebour party !
MOBY KERR aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggg
gg
If he does wardog he will be a big beached whale just like the liebour party !
MOBY KERR aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggg
gg
Posted by: subrosa on 12:52am Sun 27 Jul 08
Aye I think you're all on the right lines about the LIT announcement. Thought it strange no named SNP person commented. The man's way ahead of me lol but that's why he's the leader I suppose :)
Aye I think you're all on the right lines about the LIT announcement. Thought it strange no named SNP person commented. The man's way ahead of me lol but that's why he's the leader I suppose :)
Posted by: Samoyed, Costa del Menie on 12:55am Sun 27 Jul 08
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest.
Tom gordon is lying.
No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming.
The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned.
In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming".
The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest.
Tom gordon is lying.
No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming.
The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned.
In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming".
The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:55am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jimmy the Pie[/bold] wrote:
Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????[/quote]
EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they?
Dear oh dear...
About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.
Jimmy the Pie wrote:
Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they?
Dear oh dear...
About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:56am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[bold]ha ha ha ha ha[/bold] The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems. McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days [/quote] LOL
Picturing AM2 running roon the building performing every task to keep it going.
ho ho ho
Wardog wrote:
ha ha ha ha ha The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems. McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
LOL
Picturing AM2 running roon the building performing every task to keep it going.
ho ho ho
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:57am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]indyleith[/bold] wrote:
The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland.
What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East.
Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.[/quote]
No worries indyleith, I suspect that the media will have a great time getting the policies out of these treacherous numpties..... prepare for some very very funny newsnicht's coming up.....
indyleith wrote:
The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland.
What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East.
Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.
No worries indyleith, I suspect that the media will have a great time getting the policies out of these treacherous numpties..... prepare for some very very funny newsnicht's coming up.....
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:58am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]tris[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jimmy the Pie[/bold] wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????[/quote] EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.[/quote] mmmmmm... what if it was one of those they have on the banks of the Ganges? :-)
tris wrote:
Jimmy the Pie wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.
mmmmmm... what if it was one of those they have on the banks of the Ganges? :-)
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:03am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Samoyed[/bold] wrote:
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest.
Tom gordon is lying.
No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming.
The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned.
In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming".
The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.[/quote] Aye, I agree Samoyed - it read like a scotsman article afetr the thrid paaragraph.
I reckon Alec just teasing them, every time they let down scotland, the uk government edges the Scottish people closer to indepdnence.... the funnier thing though is that theyd ecide not to bully wee alba, the scots will get positive polices that will make the SNp seem even more on top of theri game.
It's a no win for an out of ouch westminister
More and mroe, Westminster's arguments over CTb appear to be simply argumentative, the money is already set aside for Scotland over the next 2-3 years, there would be no loss to Westminster.
They have no reason other than party political to try and claw bcak this money.... wait and see these Joint Ministerial meetings get ramped up
Samoyed wrote:
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest.
Tom gordon is lying.
No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming.
The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned.
In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming".
The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.
Aye, I agree Samoyed - it read like a scotsman article afetr the thrid paaragraph.
I reckon Alec just teasing them, every time they let down scotland, the uk government edges the Scottish people closer to indepdnence.... the funnier thing though is that theyd ecide not to bully wee alba, the scots will get positive polices that will make the SNp seem even more on top of theri game.
It's a no win for an out of ouch westminister
More and mroe, Westminster's arguments over CTb appear to be simply argumentative, the money is already set aside for Scotland over the next 2-3 years, there would be no loss to Westminster.
They have no reason other than party political to try and claw bcak this money.... wait and see these Joint Ministerial meetings get ramped up
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 1:04am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[bold]ha ha ha ha ha[/bold]
The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems.
McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
[/quote] I think they are probably shredding the preprepared brown-nosing articles about Curran and English Labour winning the by-election.
Desperately looking for something to print.
Wardog wrote:
ha ha ha ha ha
The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems.
McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
I think they are probably shredding the preprepared brown-nosing articles about Curran and English Labour winning the by-election.
Desperately looking for something to print.
Posted by: indyleith, Edinburgh on 1:04am Sun 27 Jul 08
The press and media are still in a state of shock. They are ignoring the SNP victory in the hope they will go away. Unbelievable. A neighbour told me that the Sun newspaper (well so they say) has a Scots guy who has a column in the scottish edition and he is even saying that it was a great result for Glasgow East against the "media's party".
Are the Hootsman leaving the country? Are they depriving us of their lunacy rantings? Suits me and the sooner they go the better. Doesnt even cut it as loo roll, ask Glen Campbell, he relys on it i hear especially after the voters gave their verdict.
The press and media are still in a state of shock. They are ignoring the SNP victory in the hope they will go away. Unbelievable. A neighbour told me that the Sun newspaper (well so they say) has a Scots guy who has a column in the scottish edition and he is even saying that it was a great result for Glasgow East against the "media's party".
Are the Hootsman leaving the country? Are they depriving us of their lunacy rantings? Suits me and the sooner they go the better. Doesnt even cut it as loo roll, ask Glen Campbell, he relys on it i hear especially after the voters gave their verdict.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:05am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[bold]ha ha ha ha ha[/bold] The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems. McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days [/quote] LOL
Picturing AM2 running roon the building performing every task to keep it going.
ho ho ho[/quote]
AM2 is the kind of lad that would be drinking G+T and rearranging the deck-chairs whilst the titanic (and that's what unionism is) sinks below his feet.
I keep imagining him these days as the grandfather in chitty chitty bang bang...... you know the guy you hankers after empire n a' that;.
nouveauxscum wrote:
Wardog wrote:
ha ha ha ha ha The hootsman cite is refusing to publish a paper this Sunday it seems. McPravda style, no news is good news to unionists these days
LOL
Picturing AM2 running roon the building performing every task to keep it going.
ho ho ho
AM2 is the kind of lad that would be drinking G+T and rearranging the deck-chairs whilst the titanic (and that's what unionism is) sinks below his feet.
I keep imagining him these days as the grandfather in chitty chitty bang bang...... you know the guy you hankers after empire n a' that;.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:08am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]tris[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jimmy the Pie[/bold] wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????[/quote] EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.[/quote] Oh yes. And it was going to be on the "August Bank Holiday" - that's the English one, at the end of the month.
The holiday that grew out of St. Bartholomew's Fair. The mediaeval event in London that was the reason for the very hasty trial of William Wallace - so that the public execution could be part of the attractions of the weekend. Many Scots, including SNP branches, hold a "Wallace Day" commemoration on that weekend. The London one, at the Wallace Plaque on the wall of "Bart's", is held within sight of modern banners proclaiming "St. Bartholomew's Fair".
Yes, correct, the proposal is/was to hold a "Britishness Day" on the anniversary of the judicial murder of Scotland's greatest freedom fighter by the "Hammer of the Scots", in London.
Nice one, guys.
tris wrote:
Jimmy the Pie wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.
Oh yes. And it was going to be on the "August Bank Holiday" - that's the English one, at the end of the month.
The holiday that grew out of St. Bartholomew's Fair. The mediaeval event in London that was the reason for the very hasty trial of William Wallace - so that the public execution could be part of the attractions of the weekend. Many Scots, including SNP branches, hold a "Wallace Day" commemoration on that weekend. The London one, at the Wallace Plaque on the wall of "Bart's", is held within sight of modern banners proclaiming "St. Bartholomew's Fair".
Yes, correct, the proposal is/was to hold a "Britishness Day" on the anniversary of the judicial murder of Scotland's greatest freedom fighter by the "Hammer of the Scots", in London.
Nice one, guys.
Posted by: subrosa on 1:08am Sun 27 Jul 08
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
Posted by: Pete, Glasgow on 1:09am Sun 27 Jul 08
As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it's a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don't see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.
As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it's a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don't see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:11am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Samoyed[/bold] wrote:
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest. Tom gordon is lying. No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming. The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned. In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming". The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.[/quote] Samoyed, my thoughts exactly. When the blasted page finally loaded and I saw the name "Tom Gordon", I was pretty certain it was a load of porkies.
Yes, Alex walks on water as far as policy and tactics go, and if he was really pulling some sort of stunt or bluff I'd back him, but really? Tom Gordon?
Samoyed wrote:
Steve, Jimbo, Subrosa, Noveauxscum, Jwill, Wardog, and the rest. Tom gordon is lying. No source close to the First Minister has ever uttered such nonsense about freezing the bill if the money is not coming. The rest of the article is just a symposium of opinions contrary to the Lit issued by conservatives or labour or private persons within the organizations mentioned. In Nicola's own words : "The SG will just have to increase the grant to councils if the money is not forecoming". The truth is everybody in England is affraid of Lit working here, and the public there demanding it.
Samoyed, my thoughts exactly. When the blasted page finally loaded and I saw the name "Tom Gordon", I was pretty certain it was a load of porkies.
Yes, Alex walks on water as far as policy and tactics go, and if he was really pulling some sort of stunt or bluff I'd back him, but really? Tom Gordon?
Posted by: indyleith, cheesecake on 1:14am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]indyleith[/bold] wrote: The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland. What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East. Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.[/quote] No worries indyleith, I suspect that the media will have a great time getting the policies out of these treacherous numpties..... prepare for some very very funny newsnicht's coming up..... [/quote] Agreed Wardog, let panto season commence. The Liebour party will play to full houses every night in Scotland for the so-called leadership contest of the dead in the water party. sit back and let battle commence. The comedy has won prizes at numpty ville in numpty land. Its the aperitif before Scotland goes independent. Priceless.
Wardog wrote:
indyleith wrote: The leadership contenders backed Wendy's call for a referendum now they dont want one. They are backstabbers of the highest order make no mistake Scotland. What a nasty bitter bile ridden outburst from Kerr, defeat hurt Kerr? Tough. This is the way he will want to engage with the Scottish public and win their votes. Nae chance. They are getting worse liebour are. I wish they would disappear and let Scotland rebuild and be happy. They are vile and deserve the beating they got by the voters of Glasgow East. Good riddance Liebour and the press and media up here are on a loser with Liebour. Pravda looks tame compared to that lot.
No worries indyleith, I suspect that the media will have a great time getting the policies out of these treacherous numpties..... prepare for some very very funny newsnicht's coming up.....
Agreed Wardog, let panto season commence. The Liebour party will play to full houses every night in Scotland for the so-called leadership contest of the dead in the water party. sit back and let battle commence. The comedy has won prizes at numpty ville in numpty land. Its the aperitif before Scotland goes independent. Priceless.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:17am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
[/quote] [quote]The First Minister is expected to announce another major energy investment in the next few days, following the £600 million Clyde windfarm near Abington, South Lanarkshire, and the new biomass generator in Markinch, Fife. This will take [bold]investment[/bold] in the Scottish ‘green energy’ sector to close to £1 billion in ten days.[/quote]
If he announces that Scotland has hit it's renewables target with the approved schemes in 2008...... wow
subrosa wrote:
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
The First Minister is expected to announce another major energy investment in the next few days, following the £600 million Clyde windfarm near Abington, South Lanarkshire, and the new biomass generator in Markinch, Fife. This will take investment in the Scottish ‘green energy’ sector to close to £1 billion in ten days.
If he announces that Scotland has hit it's renewables target with the approved schemes in 2008...... wow
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:19am Sun 27 Jul 08
Charlie Gordon should have been charged with money laundering- concealing the true source of illegal funds is a crime but the Crown office is so Labour biased
Andy Kerr's a clerk/poorly educated, Cathy's an art student/social worker who has never had a proper job, Ian Gray's alraedy been rejected by the electorate=just show's Labour's lack of depth- Ken McIntosh he bloke with the high pitched voice who supports the public sector that have been an embarrasment to Scotland achieved nothing on the backbenches a bit like the useless David MArshall.
Mind you wummens rights Margaret Curran is now exposed a loser and a liar so who do they have?
Charlie Gordon should have been charged with money laundering- concealing the true source of illegal funds is a crime but the Crown office is so Labour biased
Andy Kerr's a clerk/poorly educated, Cathy's an art student/social worker who has never had a proper job, Ian Gray's alraedy been rejected by the electorate=just show's Labour's lack of depth- Ken McIntosh he bloke with the high pitched voice who supports the public sector that have been an embarrasment to Scotland achieved nothing on the backbenches a bit like the useless David MArshall.
Mind you wummens rights Margaret Curran is now exposed a loser and a liar so who do they have?
Posted by: John Hancock, Edinburgh on 1:19am Sun 27 Jul 08
Another Labour U-turn on an independence referendum is hardly likely to enhance the credibility of the Labour group at Holyrood. Surely even they understand that.
If the case for a referendum was strong enough for Scottish Labour to support it, it cannot be justifiable for them now to oppose it. If it were justifiable for Scottish Labour now to oppose a referendum, the case for supporting it could never have been strong enough for them to support it in the first place, although they said it was.
Scottish Labour is not very good at very much, but at least no one can hold a candle to them when it comes to tying themselves up in knots. Carry on chaps. Do another U-turn. The more knots you tie yourselves up in the better it will be for Scotland.
Another Labour U-turn on an independence referendum is hardly likely to enhance the credibility of the Labour group at Holyrood. Surely even they understand that.
If the case for a referendum was strong enough for Scottish Labour to support it, it cannot be justifiable for them now to oppose it. If it were justifiable for Scottish Labour now to oppose a referendum, the case for supporting it could never have been strong enough for them to support it in the first place, although they said it was.
Scottish Labour is not very good at very much, but at least no one can hold a candle to them when it comes to tying themselves up in knots. Carry on chaps. Do another U-turn. The more knots you tie yourselves up in the better it will be for Scotland.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:21am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
[/quote] [quote]The First Minister is expected to announce another major energy investment in the next few days, following the £600 million Clyde windfarm near Abington, South Lanarkshire, and the new biomass generator in Markinch, Fife. This will take [bold]investment[/bold] in the Scottish ‘green energy’ sector to close to £1 billion in ten days.[/quote]
If he announces that Scotland has hit it's renewables target with the approved schemes in 2008...... wow
[/quote]
[bold]IF[/bold] Trump's golf resort get's the go ahead it'll take investment up to £2Billion..... there is a larger masterpla unconnecte dot Trump's plans but in the same area called Energetica, which could attract £750 million in investment in the first 10 years , with the potential to generate £500 million of additional gross value added per annum.
The figures exclude investment in the Aberdeen Western Periphery Road and the duelling of the A90, thought to be worth about £420m.
The private sector initiative would see a 30-mile stretch of the region becoming home to energy-related companies, to "create a corridor along which a critical mass of dynamic organisations would be attracted to stimulate synergies, innovation, research and development".
The route would be interspersed with residential areas and leisure facilities, highlighting the region's coastal scenery.
Trump's plans fit very snugly into the development which I hesitate to add is supported by all the local political parties, business community and civic authorities.
The previous mob's record on the economy is looking incredibly shaky....
This would be an amazing achievement for less than 2 years in the job.
Imagine what we could do with full tax powers etc.
Wardog wrote:
subrosa wrote:
At least, the Sunday Express has an article about Alex Salmond and his opinions:
tiny.cc/kXBtb
The First Minister is expected to announce another major energy investment in the next few days, following the £600 million Clyde windfarm near Abington, South Lanarkshire, and the new biomass generator in Markinch, Fife. This will take investment in the Scottish ‘green energy’ sector to close to £1 billion in ten days.
If he announces that Scotland has hit it's renewables target with the approved schemes in 2008...... wow
IF Trump's golf resort get's the go ahead it'll take investment up to £2Billion..... there is a larger masterpla unconnecte dot Trump's plans but in the same area called Energetica, which could attract £750 million in investment in the first 10 years , with the potential to generate £500 million of additional gross value added per annum.
The figures exclude investment in the Aberdeen Western Periphery Road and the duelling of the A90, thought to be worth about £420m.
The private sector initiative would see a 30-mile stretch of the region becoming home to energy-related companies, to "create a corridor along which a critical mass of dynamic organisations would be attracted to stimulate synergies, innovation, research and development".
The route would be interspersed with residential areas and leisure facilities, highlighting the region's coastal scenery.
Trump's plans fit very snugly into the development which I hesitate to add is supported by all the local political parties, business community and civic authorities.
The previous mob's record on the economy is looking incredibly shaky....
This would be an amazing achievement for less than 2 years in the job.
Imagine what we could do with full tax powers etc.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:21am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Pete[/bold] wrote:
As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it's a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don't see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.[/quote] "This"? You mean not having a referendum in 2010? On 30th November? Just because some Labourites can't make up their minds?
I'd put money on it happening. Read Alex's article.
"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune."
If you don't think last Thursday was that tide, you haven't been paying attention.
Pete wrote:
As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it's a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don't see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.
"This"? You mean not having a referendum in 2010? On 30th November? Just because some Labourites can't make up their minds?
I'd put money on it happening. Read Alex's article.
"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune."
If you don't think last Thursday was that tide, you haven't been paying attention.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 1:22am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]tris[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Jimmy the Pie[/bold] wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????[/quote] EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.[/quote] Oh yes. And it was going to be on the "August Bank Holiday" - that's the English one, at the end of the month. The holiday that grew out of St. Bartholomew's Fair. The mediaeval event in London that was the reason for the very hasty trial of William Wallace - so that the public execution could be part of the attractions of the weekend. Many Scots, including SNP branches, hold a "Wallace Day" commemoration on that weekend. The London one, at the Wallace Plaque on the wall of "Bart's", is held within sight of modern banners proclaiming "St. Bartholomew's Fair". Yes, correct, the proposal is/was to hold a "Britishness Day" on the anniversary of the judicial murder of Scotland's greatest freedom fighter by the "Hammer of the Scots", in London. Nice one, guys. [/quote]
Quite amazing. They don't know, I assume, that we don't actually have a holiday on that day?
Then they are happy to have it on a day which must insult most Scots, nationalist or not.
And they are listening and learning....?
.... and then paying no attention wahtsoever to it all?
Well...I'm for wearing my Scotland rugby shirt that day and wraping myself in my saltire. They can stick Britishness up their collective ar*ses.
Morag wrote:
tris wrote: Jimmy the Pie wrote: Any word on when "Britishness Day" is to be?? That'll bring all the stupid voters back into the New Labour Sleaze fold - won't it????????
EEEEEEK... They aren't going to try to have that in Scotland, are they? Dear oh dear... About as good an idea as giving the wicked witch a state funeral.
Oh yes. And it was going to be on the "August Bank Holiday" - that's the English one, at the end of the month. The holiday that grew out of St. Bartholomew's Fair. The mediaeval event in London that was the reason for the very hasty trial of William Wallace - so that the public execution could be part of the attractions of the weekend. Many Scots, including SNP branches, hold a "Wallace Day" commemoration on that weekend. The London one, at the Wallace Plaque on the wall of "Bart's", is held within sight of modern banners proclaiming "St. Bartholomew's Fair". Yes, correct, the proposal is/was to hold a "Britishness Day" on the anniversary of the judicial murder of Scotland's greatest freedom fighter by the "Hammer of the Scots", in London. Nice one, guys.
Quite amazing. They don't know, I assume, that we don't actually have a holiday on that day?
Then they are happy to have it on a day which must insult most Scots, nationalist or not.
And they are listening and learning....?
.... and then paying no attention wahtsoever to it all?
Well...I'm for wearing my Scotland rugby shirt that day and wraping myself in my saltire. They can stick Britishness up their collective ar*ses.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:25am Sun 27 Jul 08
Oh yes, Pete, and the rest of it.
I agree Alex Salmond is our best bet. He's 53 now. He's been in his second term as party leader for several years already. You want to put this off for another 7 or even 12 years? You really think AS has that sort of stamina?
If for any reason it doesn't happen in 2010, we are going to have to find someone else to take it forward from there, I suspect.
Oh yes, Pete, and the rest of it.
I agree Alex Salmond is our best bet. He's 53 now. He's been in his second term as party leader for several years already. You want to put this off for another 7 or even 12 years? You really think AS has that sort of stamina?
If for any reason it doesn't happen in 2010, we are going to have to find someone else to take it forward from there, I suspect.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 1:28am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote]Another Labour U-turn on an independence referendum is hardly likely to enhance the credibility of the Labour group at Holyrood. Surely even they understand that.[/quote]
er, nope. Thick as planks, all of them. Specially that Iain Gray. He's fabulously inept, inarticulate and dumb. If he had another brain cell he could probably be a plant, albeit a dead one.
Another Labour U-turn on an independence referendum is hardly likely to enhance the credibility of the Labour group at Holyrood. Surely even they understand that.
er, nope. Thick as planks, all of them. Specially that Iain Gray. He's fabulously inept, inarticulate and dumb. If he had another brain cell he could probably be a plant, albeit a dead one.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:36am Sun 27 Jul 08
EVERYONE should read AM2's deparate post on the Ian Gray story on the hootsman, he's all of a fluster about the question in the referendum, poor dear.
Must be awful to find your world slowly falling apart.
EVERYONE should read AM2's deparate post on the Ian Gray story on the hootsman, he's all of a fluster about the question in the referendum, poor dear.
Must be awful to find your world slowly falling apart.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:39am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
EVERYONE should read AM2's deparate post on the Ian Gray story on the hootsman, he's all of a fluster about the question in the referendum, poor dear. Must be awful to find your world slowly falling apart. [/quote] Oh, copy it over for pity's sake. I've got too many windows open as it is and I'm on a slow dial-up.
Wardog wrote:
EVERYONE should read AM2's deparate post on the Ian Gray story on the hootsman, he's all of a fluster about the question in the referendum, poor dear. Must be awful to find your world slowly falling apart.
Oh, copy it over for pity's sake. I've got too many windows open as it is and I'm on a slow dial-up.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:40am Sun 27 Jul 08
Wardog[quote]AM-Squared: Must be awful to find your world falling apart.[/quote] Everybody needs a purpose in life, even an odious dullard with no future ... correction: especially one with no future.
Wardog
AM-Squared: Must be awful to find your world falling apart.
Everybody needs a purpose in life, even an odious dullard with no future ... correction: especially one with no future.
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 1:40am Sun 27 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Pete[/bold] wrote: As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it\'s a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don\'t see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.[/quote] \"This\"? You mean not having a referendum in 2010? On 30th November? Just because some Labourites can\'t make up their minds? I\'d put money on it happening. Read Alex\'s article. \"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.\" If you don\'t think last Thursday was that tide, you haven\'t been paying attention. [/quote] Fully agree that 2010 is the plan for the Referendum and should be kept to! As 85% to 90% of the population WANT the Referendum the other parties would be daft to block it - and I don't think they will.
Is it really going the be St Andrew's Day though?
That would make it a Tuesday rather that a Thursday; make it later on in the year and therefore more likely to have bad weather; would have us stuck under the new Tory government in westminster for longer; and being an emotive Scottish Date, leave the SNP open to claims of manipulation over the setting of the date.
Would the first Thursday in either September or October not be better? That could give the choice of 2/9/2010 or 7/10/2010. Why wait any longer?
Morag wrote:
Pete wrote: As a nationalist, I think this is for the best. Salmond is an A+ politician, and he might win independence in 2010, but it\'s a longshot. 2015 or 2020 is more realistic. But he himself ruled out a second referendum within a generation. I don\'t see anyone else in the SNP leadership with the charisma to win a referendum. Salmond in 2015 or 20 seems like the best plan.
\"This\"? You mean not having a referendum in 2010? On 30th November? Just because some Labourites can\'t make up their minds? I\'d put money on it happening. Read Alex\'s article. \"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.\" If you don\'t think last Thursday was that tide, you haven\'t been paying attention.
Fully agree that 2010 is the plan for the Referendum and should be kept to! As 85% to 90% of the population WANT the Referendum the other parties would be daft to block it - and I don't think they will.
Is it really going the be St Andrew's Day though?
That would make it a Tuesday rather that a Thursday; make it later on in the year and therefore more likely to have bad weather; would have us stuck under the new Tory government in westminster for longer; and being an emotive Scottish Date, leave the SNP open to claims of manipulation over the setting of the date.
Would the first Thursday in either September or October not be better? That could give the choice of 2/9/2010 or 7/10/2010. Why wait any longer?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:42am Sun 27 Jul 08
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