Rebuttal Jeremy Beadles on banning cheap alcohol JUSTICE MINISTER Kenny MacAskill's announcements on Wednesday that he wanted to ban price promotions on alcohol and limit where shops could display drinks were disappointing but not surprising. The Scottish government has joined the chorus of well-meaning but misguided people who believe that when it comes to alcohol misuse, the solution lies solely in price and availability.
Alcohol is usually quite high on the political and media agenda, but this summer has been something else. Hardly a day has gone by without an alcohol-based headline. But it almost seems as though people aren't reading to the end of the stories. Let me give you one "binge-drink" headline that missed the point this week:
A report in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health concluded that teen binge drinkers are significantly more likely to become heavy drinkers as adults and find themselves with a string of criminal convictions. But the report actually urged policymakers to look beyond alcohol use, access and availability and to focus on the "wider context of adolescent risk behaviour".
We have a long cultural history of alcohol misuse in this country and it is far too simplistic to say "price + availability = alcohol misuse". The evidence for this is on our doorstep. In the UK, we already have some of the highest alcohol taxes in Europe and pay £1.33 on a bottle of wine, compared to 2p in France and no tax in Italy, Portugal and Spain. In these countries alcohol is much cheaper but they don't have the same drinking problems. In contrast, Sweden and Finland, with higher prices, have similar problems.
By focusing on price and availability, Mr MacAskill has missed opportunities to help solve the wider problems of alcohol misuse. Banning promotional models will cause considerable competition distortion in the UK market. This will be keenly felt in the border areas where Scots will be able to look over to England and Northern Ireland for promotional offers. Will Carlisle become to the Scots what Calais is to the English? It will be interesting to see the reaction of the UK government and to watch how these proposals fit within European Competition law.
So, what is the solution? Well, it may sound trite, but I believe that it's about society. Lithuanian president Valdas Adamkus recently said that a change in drinking culture would only happen if the whole of society got involved.
It's about working out why people want to drink lots in order to get drunk. We should make better use of all the education and information routes. Parents, schools, the government, the media, medics and the industry all have a role to play in educating and informing consumers.
There are some good statistics in MacAskill's speech but here are a few others:
The amount we drink has fallen by 5% in the last two years; the average weekly alcohol consumption for men has dropped consistently since 1998; for women, consumption rose from 1998 to 2002 and has now gone back down to circa 1998 levels; in 2005 fewer people aged between 16 and 24 said they drank more than the recommended daily alcohol levels compared with 2002.
This doesn't mean everything is rosy, but the government should be looking at what it can do to actually tackle the problems rather than blaming the industry.
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Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 1:41am Sun 9 Sep 07
I do not think for a minute that the SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT thinks that cheap alcohol is the only cause of the problem. I know that Kenny MaCaskil doesnt. But at the end of the day every little helps especially if it is backed up with other programmes. The biggest task the Scottish Government has today is to give young Scots back their pride by getting them to believe that as Scots they matter and have a strong place in contibuting to our Society that is reclaiming its ability to make decisions that will form the future of our NATION. If we can do anything to add a strong economic base and balance that by creating a democratic compassionate place that values the individual.It is never too late to try, but there is nothing wrong with doing it NOW.
I do not think for a minute that the SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT thinks that cheap alcohol is the only cause of the problem. I know that Kenny MaCaskil doesnt. But at the end of the day every little helps especially if it is backed up with other programmes. The biggest task the Scottish Government has today is to give young Scots back their pride by getting them to believe that as Scots they matter and have a strong place in contibuting to our Society that is reclaiming its ability to make decisions that will form the future of our NATION. If we can do anything to add a strong economic base and balance that by creating a democratic compassionate place that values the individual.It is never too late to try, but there is nothing wrong with doing it NOW.
Posted by: Liz on 10:56am Sun 9 Sep 07
Scotland may have had "a long cultural history of alcohol misuse", but that doesn't mean we should give up on trying to do something about it. It's common sense that when drink is cheaper, it's easier for people to drink more. That doesn't mean people have to drink more, but we do seem to be drinking more. And if we have this cultural drink problem, then having so much low-priced alcohol seems irresponsible.
Jeremy Beadles sets up a straw man when he says:
"The Scottish government ... believe that when it comes to alcohol misuse, the solution lies solely in price and availability."
MacAskill's speech is on the Executive's website and clearly says:
"This is the first step in a long term strategy to tackle the health and social harms of alcohol misuse."
The industry alone isn't being blamed, but maybe it has to take some responsibility.
Btw, it'd be good if this article identified that Jeremy Beadles is the chief executive of the Wine and Spirit Trade Association.
Scotland may have had "a long cultural history of alcohol misuse", but that doesn't mean we should give up on trying to do something about it. It's common sense that when drink is cheaper, it's easier for people to drink more. That doesn't mean people have to drink more, but we do seem to be drinking more. And if we have this cultural drink problem, then having so much low-priced alcohol seems irresponsible.
Jeremy Beadles sets up a straw man when he says:
"The Scottish government ... believe that when it comes to alcohol misuse, the solution lies solely in price and availability."
MacAskill's speech is on the Executive's website and clearly says:
"This is the first step in a long term strategy to tackle the health and social harms of alcohol misuse."
The industry alone isn't being blamed, but maybe it has to take some responsibility.
Btw, it'd be good if this article identified that Jeremy Beadles is the chief executive of the Wine and Spirit Trade Association.
Posted by: donald on 11:40am Sun 9 Sep 07
i do'nt think raising price is the answear as stated in the article couties with much cheaper alcohol do'nt seem to have the problems we do.until we as a society stop seeing getting intoxicated as macho and drunken behaviour as funny we will struggle.
heroin for example is for most of us not to easy acquire and fairly expensive yet we have one of the worst drug problems in europe.
i do'nt think raising price is the answear as stated in the article couties with much cheaper alcohol do'nt seem to have the problems we do.until we as a society stop seeing getting intoxicated as macho and drunken behaviour as funny we will struggle.
heroin for example is for most of us not to easy acquire and fairly expensive yet we have one of the worst drug problems in europe.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 11:48am Sun 9 Sep 07
Those on the expense account circuit are aye wantin' to raise the price of drink for ordinary folk for as part of their money-for-nothing business culture since they don't pay for anything themselves and take 2, 3 holidays abroad where they can well spliflicated out of the common gaze where drink is only at grocery prices and locals don't have problems with that.
I was at a party last Friday at a local stone-mason's. Sufficient whisky was drunk, eats et, to get us easy. Out came the giutars and we sang the songs that matter to us: [italic]Willie McBride, Flower o Scotland, Freedom Come All Ye[/italic]. An unplugged "When the guitar sings the blues" was not essayed because I'm not Eric Clapton though my quebequois seagull can wail and squack yes she will with the right loving squeeze on the fretboard.
No fights broke out nor were women groped so it was a typical highland party. I dropped into a bar on the way home where a tasty electric band were concluding their set. Ditto.
Those on the expense account circuit are aye wantin' to raise the price of drink for ordinary folk for as part of their money-for-nothing business culture since they don't pay for anything themselves and take 2, 3 holidays abroad where they can well spliflicated out of the common gaze where drink is only at grocery prices and locals don't have problems with that.
I was at a party last Friday at a local stone-mason's. Sufficient whisky was drunk, eats et, to get us easy. Out came the giutars and we sang the songs that matter to us:
Willie McBride, Flower o Scotland, Freedom Come All Ye. An unplugged "When the guitar sings the blues" was not essayed because I'm not Eric Clapton though my quebequois seagull can wail and squack yes she will with the right loving squeeze on the fretboard.
No fights broke out nor were women groped so it was a typical highland party. I dropped into a bar on the way home where a tasty electric band were concluding their set. Ditto.
Posted by: Victor Smith on 11:57am Sun 9 Sep 07
Surely, really deep down this alcohol mis-use / abuse must be considered for what it really is - a personal mental problem, and a big one at that!
From what we see of the disgusting situations and behaviour displays on TV, and the interviews with the main people concerned - those doing the abusing (or in their eyes, as they oft repeat, having a bit of fun and pleasure!!!) - the mind boggles, and, in spite of all the health warnings about the ‘grip’ alcohol can get on a person they still continue - and ‘all for a bit of fun!’ Poor souls!
Anyone who can, and apparently wants to, deliberately behave and look so ridiculous, disgusting, and at times seriously dangerous to themselves and others, as we see displayed by them, must be lacking in basic common sense and a reasonable level of intelligence, and have no concern for their own future good health - and all filed under their idea of a bit of fun!
Notwithstanding the trouble and discomfort - and worse, they can and do cause to others and their property, presumably mostly by being members of the well known ‘Not Bovvered’ brigade, and all just for their 'alleged' fun, they must seriously have some kind of mental dysfunction they fail to notice, or even be aware of, but may very much regret deeply later on in their lives - if they survive long enough to have one!!
If, in their tiny minds, they believe that 'getting bladdered, ****, tanked up to the eyeballs' - call it what they will, seemingly the main purpose of the ‘night out’, and believe they are having great fun and enjoyment, and obviously having no concern for the price they might / probably will, have to pay later in life - if they still possess one at all or is worth having!
Surely, really deep down this alcohol mis-use / abuse must be considered for what it really is - a personal mental problem, and a big one at that!
From what we see of the disgusting situations and behaviour displays on TV, and the interviews with the main people concerned - those doing the abusing (or in their eyes, as they oft repeat, having a bit of fun and pleasure!!!) - the mind boggles, and, in spite of all the health warnings about the ‘grip’ alcohol can get on a person they still continue - and ‘all for a bit of fun!’ Poor souls!
Anyone who can, and apparently wants to, deliberately behave and look so ridiculous, disgusting, and at times seriously dangerous to themselves and others, as we see displayed by them, must be lacking in basic common sense and a reasonable level of intelligence, and have no concern for their own future good health - and all filed under their idea of a bit of fun!
Notwithstanding the trouble and discomfort - and worse, they can and do cause to others and their property, presumably mostly by being members of the well known ‘Not Bovvered’ brigade, and all just for their 'alleged' fun, they must seriously have some kind of mental dysfunction they fail to notice, or even be aware of, but may very much regret deeply later on in their lives - if they survive long enough to have one!!
If, in their tiny minds, they believe that 'getting bladdered, ****, tanked up to the eyeballs' - call it what they will, seemingly the main purpose of the ‘night out’, and believe they are having great fun and enjoyment, and obviously having no concern for the price they might / probably will, have to pay later in life - if they still possess one at all or is worth having!
Posted by: Frank on 1:17pm Sun 9 Sep 07
Mike, if the Scottish Government doesn't think cheap alcohol is the only solution, where are the other programs that you believe exist?
The last administration ran excellent, long-term advertising campaigns in comjunction with the NHS against binge drinking and supporting responsible use of alcohol. These campaigns have reduced the percentage of binge drinkers in Scotland, but are labelled as "waste" by the SNP.
The last administration's strategy was based upon changing people's attitudes rather than restricting the availability of alcohol, and this approach works.
Mike, if the Scottish Government doesn't think cheap alcohol is the only solution, where are the other programs that you believe exist?
The last administration ran excellent, long-term advertising campaigns in comjunction with the NHS against binge drinking and supporting responsible use of alcohol. These campaigns have reduced the percentage of binge drinkers in Scotland, but are labelled as "waste" by the SNP.
The last administration's strategy was based upon changing people's attitudes rather than restricting the availability of alcohol, and this approach works.
Posted by: Frank on 1:18pm Sun 9 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Frank[/bold] wrote:
Mike, if the Scottish Government doesn't think cheap alcohol is the only solution, where are the other programs that you believe exist? The last administration ran excellent, long-term advertising campaigns in comjunction with the NHS against binge drinking and supporting responsible use of alcohol. These campaigns have reduced the percentage of binge drinkers in Scotland, but are labelled as "waste" by the SNP. The last administration's strategy was based upon changing people's attitudes rather than restricting the availability of alcohol, and this approach works. [/quote] Sorry, the first line there should read "restricting cheap alcohol". Sorry for any confusion.
Frank wrote:
Mike, if the Scottish Government doesn't think cheap alcohol is the only solution, where are the other programs that you believe exist? The last administration ran excellent, long-term advertising campaigns in comjunction with the NHS against binge drinking and supporting responsible use of alcohol. These campaigns have reduced the percentage of binge drinkers in Scotland, but are labelled as "waste" by the SNP. The last administration's strategy was based upon changing people's attitudes rather than restricting the availability of alcohol, and this approach works.
Sorry, the first line there should read "restricting cheap alcohol". Sorry for any confusion.
Posted by: Victor Smith on 1:56pm Sun 9 Sep 07
Alcohol to many, is never really cheap - as they usually find out - but often too late!
There will always be a price to pay for abusing anything - regardless!
Best to knock it on the head, before it knocks you 'in' the head, and it doesn't usually go away of its own accord - well not until ............? - then it's far too late to do any good!
Be aware and warned - tomorrow, or possibly today, may be too late!
Alcohol to many, is never really cheap - as they usually find out - but often too late!
There will always be a price to pay for abusing anything - regardless!
Best to knock it on the head, before it knocks you 'in' the head, and it doesn't usually go away of its own accord - well not until ............? - then it's far too late to do any good!
Be aware and warned - tomorrow, or possibly today, may be too late!
Posted by: Keith Dodson on 4:35pm Sun 9 Sep 07
There is legislation in areas regarding alcohol. The licencee and his staff have a duty not to serve patrons who they think are under the influence.Also there are areas where it is an offence not to drink in a public place (it works).Apart from the early education re alcohol it is a matter of resources and zero tolerance,not only to the person under the influence but to the licencees
who serve people under the influence to make that extra buck; Revoking their next application for a licence word would soon get around Happy hour what happy hour
There is legislation in areas regarding alcohol. The licencee and his staff have a duty not to serve patrons who they think are under the influence.Also there are areas where it is an offence not to drink in a public place (it works).Apart from the early education re alcohol it is a matter of resources and zero tolerance,not only to the person under the influence but to the licencees
who serve people under the influence to make that extra buck; Revoking their next application for a licence word would soon get around Happy hour what happy hour
Posted by: Ragnar Vagmornasson, Brandenburg-Preussen
.(Ex Bathgate) on 1:10pm Wed 12 Sep 07
[quote]Posted by: Liz on 10:56am Sun 9 Sep 07
It's common sense that when drink is cheaper, it's easier for people to drink more.[/quote]
Then explain this.
In the 50s and 60s the Swedish and Finish Governments were concerned at the alcoholism rate in the two countries.
They put the tax up on alcohol so high as to make it "unaffordable". (We all know the horror stories of the 10 pound 33cl glass of beer in Stockholm, or Helsinki.)
Within 12 months both countries shared the unenviable titel of having the most alcoholics in Europe, and, If I remember, except for Russia, the world.
So I have some bad news for you sunshine, raising the price does NOT help.
Who would have [italic]dreamed[/italic] of paying six pound for 20 fags in the 80s?
(Tell me if I am wrong, I was told recently that that was the present price?)
Posted by: Liz on 10:56am Sun 9 Sep 07
It's common sense that when drink is cheaper, it's easier for people to drink more.
Then explain this.
In the 50s and 60s the Swedish and Finish Governments were concerned at the alcoholism rate in the two countries.
They put the tax up on alcohol so high as to make it "unaffordable". (We all know the horror stories of the 10 pound 33cl glass of beer in Stockholm, or Helsinki.)
Within 12 months both countries shared the unenviable titel of having the most alcoholics in Europe, and, If I remember, except for Russia, the world.
So I have some bad news for you sunshine, raising the price does NOT help.
Who would have
dreamed of paying six pound for 20 fags in the 80s?
(Tell me if I am wrong, I was told recently that that was the present price?)
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