Labour caught in political self-harm THE SNP last week used its budget to give handouts to businesses and wealthy householders in Band H homes. They also cut social justice budgets on central heating grants and cash to keep poor kids at school.
This odd set of priorities should be dominating today's papers, but instead the big story is about a 29-year-old spin doctor who lost his job after shouting "c***" at the first minister. So it goes.
Matthew Marr's career demise is another sign Labour is becoming a victim to one of the iron laws of politics: the indiscipline of opposition.
In government, rows are covered up and resentment subsides. But election defeats let loose all the feelings pent up by power. The Conservatives are the textbook suicide case, John Major's ejection from Downing Street resulting in the party tearing each other apart for a decade.
Or ask John Swinney. As SNP leader, he held court while those around him knifed each other - and him. He may now be a successful finance minister, but his spell at the top was grimmer than even he cares to remember.
And now it appears to be Scottish Labour that is turning to self-harm. In government, Jack McConnell led a group of ministers whose disputes rarely made into the public domain. In opposition under Wendy Alexander, nearly a row a week is making it into the Sunday papers. First she lost one spin doctor, Brian Lironi, now she has lost another. And all the while a growing number of MSPs wonder - on an off-the-record basis - if she'll lead the party into 2011.
Part of it is down to the nature of politics, rather than Alexander per se. She is an intelligent politician whose analysis of Scottish Labour is engaging and persuasive, but she has taken over at a time when the party seems intent on tearing itself apart.
Some Labour insiders are even beginning to compare Scottish Labour now to the Conservatives post-1997, an analogy which, if true, would condemn the party to at least a decade out of power.
Maybe her "Ideas Scotland" venture, which I am told is a "virtual think tank", will help stop the rot. Some big but simple ideas immediately become clear:
Number 1: Tell all staff working for the party that shouting obscenities at a reception is not a clever thing to do.
Number 2: Learn to trust more than half-a-dozen cronies and try and engage in daily pleasantries, such as saying "good morning" to people as they walk by.
Number 3: Don't demand extra allowances from the hard-pressed taxpayer, especially when there around one billion more deserving causes in Scotland.
At this rate, the SNP (or, more accurately, Alex Salmond) is going to win the next election by a landslide. Where once Wendy Alexander could have been seen as her party's David Cameron, she
is beginning to resemble its Iain
Duncan Smith.
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Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 11:46pm Sat 17 Nov 07
It is not the job of a newspaper to unquestioningly help a political party, although no one has told the Daily Liar.
The unanswered and unasked question is why the Labour party in Scotland continue to think no one will mind that they behave obscenely in Scotland ?
It is not the job of a newspaper to unquestioningly help a political party, although no one has told the Daily Liar.
The unanswered and unasked question is why the Labour party in Scotland continue to think no one will mind that they behave obscenely in Scotland ?
Posted by: Doonhamer, Dumfries on Sun 18 Nov 07
Alexander is becoming more like Nicol Stephen each day. Loud, whining and irrelevant.
Alexander is becoming more like Nicol Stephen each day. Loud, whining and irrelevant.
Posted by: Hertz Van Rental, Labour controlled North Lanarkshire :( on 12:11am Sun 18 Nov 07
The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard.
The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard.
Posted by: Maria Regina on 1:07am Sun 18 Nov 07
Must say I missed the Marr story - while I don't quite agree with his, ahem, analysis, his reported comment does show a bit of conviction.
Must say I missed the Marr story - while I don't quite agree with his, ahem, analysis, his reported comment does show a bit of conviction.
Posted by: truth on 1:37am Sun 18 Nov 07
1. He shouldn't have said it
2. Having said it he deserved to go
3. He was telling the truth
1. He shouldn't have said it
2. Having said it he deserved to go
3. He was telling the truth
Posted by: paul h, fife on 3:33am Sun 18 Nov 07
Is that the same kind of truth the dosier on wmds displayed? See, you have to remember truth dosen't mean truth when you are talking about labour.
Shockingly bad article by the way.
Is that the same kind of truth the dosier on wmds displayed? See, you have to remember truth dosen't mean truth when you are talking about labour.
Shockingly bad article by the way.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 5:21am Sun 18 Nov 07
Bit of a "filler" of an article in a very poor Sunday Herald. Seems to imply Labour have a right to govern and overlooks 10 years of failure to address issues such as public sector waste, low calibre ministers and civil servants etc.
Marr is a ned incidentally as are many Labour Party officials and indeed MSPs - remmber them screaming on ELection nigh eg Pauline Cahill ( McNeill covering up a conflcit in the legal profession), Curran, Butler etc
Bit of a "filler" of an article in a very poor Sunday Herald. Seems to imply Labour have a right to govern and overlooks 10 years of failure to address issues such as public sector waste, low calibre ministers and civil servants etc.
Marr is a ned incidentally as are many Labour Party officials and indeed MSPs - remmber them screaming on ELection nigh eg Pauline Cahill ( McNeill covering up a conflcit in the legal profession), Curran, Butler etc
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:54am Sun 18 Nov 07
"The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard."
Don't forget the EBC and ETV, plus quangos, Civil Servants, MI5, Tame Unions, Universities and a host of place men and wimmen needed to prop up the remains of the last of the Brutish Empah.
"The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard."
Don't forget the EBC and ETV, plus quangos, Civil Servants, MI5, Tame Unions, Universities and a host of place men and wimmen needed to prop up the remains of the last of the Brutish Empah.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:54am Sun 18 Nov 07
"The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard."
Don't forget the EBC and ETV, plus quangos, Civil Servants, MI5, Tame Unions, Universities and a host of place men and wimmen needed to prop up the remains of the last of the Brutish Empah.
"The official opposition to the SNP government are the Scotman, Herald and Daily Retard."
Don't forget the EBC and ETV, plus quangos, Civil Servants, MI5, Tame Unions, Universities and a host of place men and wimmen needed to prop up the remains of the last of the Brutish Empah.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 9:33am Sun 18 Nov 07
I have been pointing out for some time the habit of the Unionist media to employ Scottish opposition party slogans in articles and broadcast items.
They know what they are doing as do the trolls that feed on the stuff.
We will never have balance within Scottish media whilst those who own/run it rely heavily on the current system for their privileges.
That is why I have proposed on these forums a boycott of all online newspapers on St Andrew's day. It would be good to see these articles bereft of comments.....just for a day of course.
I have been pointing out for some time the habit of the Unionist media to employ Scottish opposition party slogans in articles and broadcast items.
They know what they are doing as do the trolls that feed on the stuff.
We will never have balance within Scottish media whilst those who own/run it rely heavily on the current system for their privileges.
That is why I have proposed on these forums a boycott of all online newspapers on St Andrew's day. It would be good to see these articles bereft of comments.....just for a day of course.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 10:00am Sun 18 Nov 07
The most pertinant toint in the article:
"Alex Salmond is going to win the next election by a landslide!!! Hahhahahaha
You just know its so true. "Eckwatch" and
"Moronic" Mike Simpson - it'll be tears before bedtime!
But stop! A new leader for the "Project" awaits
Step forward THE BARON VON DEM FOULKES UND CUMNOCK ! THE CREDENTIALS: Right wing extremist, supports Israel's terrorist state,
warmonger, drunken thug and Blair sycophant.
Wee Wendy is on the slide, and will be lucky to last out the week. Rejoice! Rejoice! as NEW LABOUR's Baroness Thatcher would say.
The most pertinant toint in the article:
"Alex Salmond is going to win the next election by a landslide!!! Hahhahahaha
You just know its so true. "Eckwatch" and
"Moronic" Mike Simpson - it'll be tears before bedtime!
But stop! A new leader for the "Project" awaits
Step forward THE BARON VON DEM FOULKES UND CUMNOCK ! THE CREDENTIALS: Right wing extremist, supports Israel's terrorist state,
warmonger, drunken thug and Blair sycophant.
Wee Wendy is on the slide, and will be lucky to last out the week. Rejoice! Rejoice! as NEW LABOUR's Baroness Thatcher would say.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:10am Sun 18 Nov 07
Sick and tired of the media,think the idea of not buying the papers and not posting on St Andrews day is excellent.
Come on everybody join in!!
Sick and tired of the media,think the idea of not buying the papers and not posting on St Andrews day is excellent.
Come on everybody join in!!
Posted by: frank, glasgow on 10:24am Sun 18 Nov 07
I have been trying to find the appropriate place to comment on the front-page article by Paul Hutcheon and this may have to do.
It is a long time since I was in the army but this aricle reminded me of a chorus which was regularly heard in the cook-house. Possibly we awere living in less sensitive times.
The question was "Who called the cook a c...?" and the reply, always louder, was "Who called the c... a cook?" An accompanying comment was @Don't call hima c... - a c... is useful'
Maybe Matthew Marr had heard these and was applying them appropriately to Salmond.
If Salmond has not heard himself so described then he has lead a moneyed sheltered life and I have no doubt that his time will come.
Irt is more likely that the push for this stopry comes from his erstwhile colleague, the anonymous, Chrsitina McKelvie, who considers that a bit of publicity will do her no harm in her battle to get nearer the trough.
I have been trying to find the appropriate place to comment on the front-page article by Paul Hutcheon and this may have to do.
It is a long time since I was in the army but this aricle reminded me of a chorus which was regularly heard in the cook-house. Possibly we awere living in less sensitive times.
The question was "Who called the cook a c...?" and the reply, always louder, was "Who called the c... a cook?" An accompanying comment was @Don't call hima c... - a c... is useful'
Maybe Matthew Marr had heard these and was applying them appropriately to Salmond.
If Salmond has not heard himself so described then he has lead a moneyed sheltered life and I have no doubt that his time will come.
Irt is more likely that the push for this stopry comes from his erstwhile colleague, the anonymous, Chrsitina McKelvie, who considers that a bit of publicity will do her no harm in her battle to get nearer the trough.
Posted by: ptw, at the kitchen table... on 10:48am Sun 18 Nov 07
frank; I too served in the army, as a very young boy, and heard the same chorus on many occasions. Put it into context though; this tube was wrong - a time and a place, and all that. Good attempt by you though, to blame anyone but the perpretaor of the comments. Perhaps you're annoyed that your party are too far away from the trough? The union is over frank; even ex-squaddies support the SNP...
frank; I too served in the army, as a very young boy, and heard the same chorus on many occasions. Put it into context though; this tube was wrong - a time and a place, and all that. Good attempt by you though, to blame anyone but the perpretaor of the comments. Perhaps you're annoyed that your party are too far away from the trough? The union is over frank; even ex-squaddies support the SNP...
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 11:05am Sun 18 Nov 07
#Frank.
Wake up! Soon, the 4 Nations of the British Isles will be Independent & free of British Imperialism.
Does that not bring a great joy to your heart.
#Frank.
Wake up! Soon, the 4 Nations of the British Isles will be Independent & free of British Imperialism.
Does that not bring a great joy to your heart.
Posted by: Alan Clayton, Argyll on 11:07am Sun 18 Nov 07
[quote]businesses and wealthy householders[/quote]
Geezabrek Paul. I am a retired pensioner living in a Band H House and and we canni even afford to put the heating up properly.Like countless thousand of pensioners I thank heaven for Swinney.
businesses and wealthy householders
Geezabrek Paul. I am a retired pensioner living in a Band H House and and we canni even afford to put the heating up properly.Like countless thousand of pensioners I thank heaven for Swinney.
Posted by: mairi macleod, broxburn on 11:09am Sun 18 Nov 07
well it's a well known saying to loose one pr.
is careless, but two!!!!!!. must reflect on the dirty tricks party, ofcource they are used
to "WINNING EVERYTHING" WHEN THEY RAN ALL THINGS,changed days,others are getting a chance to shine thankfully, i'm sure the hotel
in question is thankful, that he was only mouthy,rude, but NO FIRE RAISER LIKE THE LAST ONE, JUST ****-- AS A NEWT.
well it's a well known saying to loose one pr.
is careless, but two!!!!!!. must reflect on the dirty tricks party, ofcource they are used
to "WINNING EVERYTHING" WHEN THEY RAN ALL THINGS,changed days,others are getting a chance to shine thankfully, i'm sure the hotel
in question is thankful, that he was only mouthy,rude, but NO FIRE RAISER LIKE THE LAST ONE, JUST ****-- AS A NEWT.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 11:35am Sun 18 Nov 07
From the article,
This odd set of priorities should be dominating today's papers, but instead the big story is about a 29-year-old spin doctor who lost his job after shouting "c***" at the first minister. So it goes.
Matthew Marr's career demise is another sign Labour is becoming a victim to one of the iron laws of politics: the indiscipline of opposition.
Sorry but I've missed this story, can anyone tell the background please.
From the article,
This odd set of priorities should be dominating today's papers, but instead the big story is about a 29-year-old spin doctor who lost his job after shouting "c***" at the first minister. So it goes.
Matthew Marr's career demise is another sign Labour is becoming a victim to one of the iron laws of politics: the indiscipline of opposition.
Sorry but I've missed this story, can anyone tell the background please.
Posted by: geordie, Stirling on 11:40am Sun 18 Nov 07
A c**t I believe derives from a word meaning wedge shaped. I also believe the Labour Party have so far only encountered the thin edge of the First Minister's wedge which will go on to split the Labour Party asunder. Therefore perhaps Mr Marr was perceptive in his prognostications
A c**t I believe derives from a word meaning wedge shaped. I also believe the Labour Party have so far only encountered the thin edge of the First Minister's wedge which will go on to split the Labour Party asunder. Therefore perhaps Mr Marr was perceptive in his prognostications
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 12:06pm Sun 18 Nov 07
Is Matthew Marr related to well-known Labour lover Andrew Marr?
If he is, and his lugs are burning from these comments, then he must be in agony!
Rubber-gub an 'intelligent' politician? Where's the proof - it's certainly not evident at FMQs. She is poorly-researched, devoid of common sense or the common touch, and is such a dreadful public speeker as to be almost inarticulate. She also appears to have zero control over her minions.
Relevant to this is the fact that Labour's best and brightest have always looked south to where the streets are paved with (black) gold, leaving only the scrapings from the floor to be elected as MSPs. Proof of this, if it were needed, is in the article by Allan Wilson in this section.
Now, the SNP Ministers might not all be MENSA members, but they are giants compared to Rubber-gub's pygmies.
Is Matthew Marr related to well-known Labour lover Andrew Marr?
If he is, and his lugs are burning from these comments, then he must be in agony!
Rubber-gub an 'intelligent' politician? Where's the proof - it's certainly not evident at FMQs. She is poorly-researched, devoid of common sense or the common touch, and is such a dreadful public speeker as to be almost inarticulate. She also appears to have zero control over her minions.
Relevant to this is the fact that Labour's best and brightest have always looked south to where the streets are paved with (black) gold, leaving only the scrapings from the floor to be elected as MSPs. Proof of this, if it were needed, is in the article by Allan Wilson in this section.
Now, the SNP Ministers might not all be MENSA members, but they are giants compared to Rubber-gub's pygmies.
Posted by: karin on 12:10pm Sun 18 Nov 07
If its not fit to be printed in a newspaper then it is not fit to be said. He should have gone with an apology to the first minister and anyone else he insulted that night.
If its not fit to be printed in a newspaper then it is not fit to be said. He should have gone with an apology to the first minister and anyone else he insulted that night.
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly on 12:28pm Sun 18 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Curley Bill[/bold] wrote:
Is Matthew Marr related to well-known Labour lover Andrew Marr? If he is, and his lugs are burning from these comments, then he must be in agony! Rubber-gub an \'intelligent\' politician? Where\'s the proof - it\'s certainly not evident at FMQs. She is poorly-researched, devoid of common sense or the common touch, and is such a dreadful public speeker as to be almost inarticulate. She also appears to have zero control over her minions. Relevant to this is the fact that Labour\'s best and brightest have always looked south to where the streets are paved with (black) gold, leaving only the scrapings from the floor to be elected as MSPs. Proof of this, if it were needed, is in the article by Allan Wilson in this section. Now, the SNP Ministers might not all be MENSA members, but they are giants compared to Rubber-gub\'s pygmies. [/quote] alas Dundee is the connection to these two. Until a little while ago we were treated to regular letters from Matthew Marr in the Courier giving his views of how the world could not do without Labour and how they could do no wrong and if the SNP got in there would be choas and turmoil. The SNP did get in and there in indeed chaos and turmoil ......in the Labour Party (Scottish Section)
Curley Bill wrote:
Is Matthew Marr related to well-known Labour lover Andrew Marr? If he is, and his lugs are burning from these comments, then he must be in agony! Rubber-gub an \'intelligent\' politician? Where\'s the proof - it\'s certainly not evident at FMQs. She is poorly-researched, devoid of common sense or the common touch, and is such a dreadful public speeker as to be almost inarticulate. She also appears to have zero control over her minions. Relevant to this is the fact that Labour\'s best and brightest have always looked south to where the streets are paved with (black) gold, leaving only the scrapings from the floor to be elected as MSPs. Proof of this, if it were needed, is in the article by Allan Wilson in this section. Now, the SNP Ministers might not all be MENSA members, but they are giants compared to Rubber-gub\'s pygmies.
alas Dundee is the connection to these two. Until a little while ago we were treated to regular letters from Matthew Marr in the Courier giving his views of how the world could not do without Labour and how they could do no wrong and if the SNP got in there would be choas and turmoil. The SNP did get in and there in indeed chaos and turmoil ......in the Labour Party (Scottish Section)
Posted by: frank, linlithgow on 12:34pm Sun 18 Nov 07
See Frank above and substitute 'First Minister' for 'cook'.
Interesting point that Curley Bill is making - the need to have a certain education and IQ before you can become a MSP. Of course this becomes abit more difficult for youngsters in the future with all the University cuts.
If they are all as thick as Curley claims then our government should have no difficulties or opposition and rather than raising a noice about their inadequacies we should be keeping quiet so that we can operate in the democractic manner outlined by so many of the above comments.
See Frank above and substitute 'First Minister' for 'cook'.
Interesting point that Curley Bill is making - the need to have a certain education and IQ before you can become a MSP. Of course this becomes abit more difficult for youngsters in the future with all the University cuts.
If they are all as thick as Curley claims then our government should have no difficulties or opposition and rather than raising a noice about their inadequacies we should be keeping quiet so that we can operate in the democractic manner outlined by so many of the above comments.
Posted by: Goanynodaethat, Greenock on 12:52pm Sun 18 Nov 07
I always thought a C*** was a useful thing.
I always thought a C*** was a useful thing.
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., SNP® 4 ME on 3:33pm Sun 18 Nov 07
[quote][bold]Astonished[/bold] wrote:
It is not the job of a newspaper to unquestioningly help a political party, although no one has told the Daily Liar. The unanswered and unasked question is why the Labour party in Scotland continue to think no one will mind that they behave obscenely in Scotland ?[/quote] It's not just Scotland their acting obscenely and like over pomosified little school boys and girls.
From times comments: "Miliband is the only minister I can remember in the last 5 years who inisists on loudly dictating his views to his lackeys whilst walking between meetings. To the rest of us civil serviles he appears an ****. But then again there is stiff competition from within the Cabinet for that title. Ruth Kelly anyone?"
Astonished wrote:
It is not the job of a newspaper to unquestioningly help a political party, although no one has told the Daily Liar. The unanswered and unasked question is why the Labour party in Scotland continue to think no one will mind that they behave obscenely in Scotland ?
It's not just Scotland their acting obscenely and like over pomosified little school boys and girls.
From times comments: "Miliband is the only minister I can remember in the last 5 years who inisists on loudly dictating his views to his lackeys whilst walking between meetings. To the rest of us civil serviles he appears an ****. But then again there is stiff competition from within the Cabinet for that title. Ruth Kelly anyone?"
Posted by: Scotsgait, www.scotsgait.co.uk on 3:58pm Sun 18 Nov 07
[quote]In opposition under Wendy Alexander, nearly a row a week is making it into the Sunday papers. First she lost one spin doctor, Brian Lironi, now she has lost another. And all the while a growing number of MSPs wonder - on an off-the-record basis - if she'll lead the party into 2011[/quote] .
It'll be interesting to see how long she lasts. Labour's in-fighting will continue until it takes responsibility for losing the election and starts to mature as an opposition party. On performance to date, that could take a long, long time.
Scotsgait is having a poll on "Who's proving to be the best party leader ?" I think it's a fair bet that 'Eck will command most support. The interesting bit will be how far Wendy trails behind....
In opposition under Wendy Alexander, nearly a row a week is making it into the Sunday papers. First she lost one spin doctor, Brian Lironi, now she has lost another. And all the while a growing number of MSPs wonder - on an off-the-record basis - if she'll lead the party into 2011
.
It'll be interesting to see how long she lasts. Labour's in-fighting will continue until it takes responsibility for losing the election and starts to mature as an opposition party. On performance to date, that could take a long, long time.
Scotsgait is having a poll on "Who's proving to be the best party leader ?" I think it's a fair bet that 'Eck will command most support. The interesting bit will be how far Wendy trails behind....
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 6:46pm Sun 18 Nov 07
[quote]Part of it is down to the nature of politics, rather than Alexander per se. [bold]She is an intelligent politician[/bold] whose analysis of Scottish Labour is engaging and persuasive, but she has taken over at a time when the party seems intent on tearing itself apart.[/quote]
Then she should be able to recruit better staff and hold on to the good ones she has. Mr Hitcheon, stop peddling this nonsense that Ms Alexander is a brainy person. You make a fool of yourself as much as she makes a fool of herself every week in Parliament.
BOYCOTT COMMENTS PAGES ON ST ADNREW'S DAY!
Part of it is down to the nature of politics, rather than Alexander per se. She is an intelligent politician whose analysis of Scottish Labour is engaging and persuasive, but she has taken over at a time when the party seems intent on tearing itself apart.
Then she should be able to recruit better staff and hold on to the good ones she has. Mr Hitcheon, stop peddling this nonsense that Ms Alexander is a brainy person. You make a fool of yourself as much as she makes a fool of herself every week in Parliament.
BOYCOTT COMMENTS PAGES ON ST ADNREW'S DAY!
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 6:48pm Sun 18 Nov 07
Opps! Mr Hutcheon I meant. Freudian slip, I was thinking you are hitchin' your waggon to a falling star.
Opps! Mr Hutcheon I meant. Freudian slip, I was thinking you are hitchin' your waggon to a falling star.