Scotland can become a leader in renewable energy while England goes atomic IT'S A pity Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond haven't spoken since August, because if they had, they might have been able to avoid last week's demeaning spat over the new generation of nuclear power stations. There is a perfectly rational and adult solution to this issue: while England reinvents the atom, why not let Scotland power ahead developing renewable energy? Let's see which works out in the long run?
Yes, it is rocket science, and there are complex technical issues about whether renewables like wind and tidal can be developed fast enough to meet the "energy gap". But there is no doubt about Scotland's potential. The government's own figures show we have 60 gigawatts of sustainable energy - 10 times the peak demand and equivalent to three-quarters of the UK's entire electricity generating capacity. We have 25% of Europe's wind and tidal energy reserves.
Surely, the solution is a dual-fuel policy: if England is so keen on nuclear, it can be the world's atomic hub, leading the field in new-age nukes, while Scotland becomes a world leader in alternatives such as clean coal, carbon capture, micro-generation. Whatever happens, renewable energy is going to be one of the great global industries of the 21st century. It would be irresponsible not to develop Scotland's natural resources.
So, why is Westminster so resistant to this? Why did the UK business minister, John Hutton, attack the Scottish government for being "irresponsible" and "playing politics" by opting out of the nuclear revival? I suspect it is because, having bet on nuclear, Westminster has to make sure it doesn't lose. It would look pretty stupid if, after covering England in nuclear dumps - sorry, above-ground monitored storage repositories - Scotland then shows they weren't necessary. Alternative energy must be marginalised so it doesn't prove ministers, and the nuclear lobby, wrong.
There's a constitutional dimension too. The prime minister is a Scot, with a Scottish seat, and doesn't want to appear to be inflicting risk on England while leaving Scotland nuclear-free.
But the real problem is that the government has to get the nuclear numbers to fit, and that requires some heroic assumptions. The incredible thing about last week's announcement on a new generation of up to 10 nuclear power stations is that it happened at all. Nowhere else in the world is there a programme as ambitious as this. Until recently, nuclear power has been regarded as a dead duck economically, of interest only to emerging nations like China and Iran with strategic ambitions.
Nobody has built a nuclear plant in Europe for over a decade and Finland's highly subsidised plant, Olkiluoto 3, is two years overdue and a well over budget. Four years ago, this Labour government's energy white paper ruled out nuclear power as uneconomic and irrelevant to tackling climate change. And the government's sustainable development commission has said nuclear power would be an expensive and dangerous mistake.
The economics of nuclear power are perverse because of the risk - not just to the environment but to financiers. The cost of decommissioning reactors is so vast no commercial operator has ever taken it on without government subsidy. Despite promises that the private sector would pay all the bills, this time the government has agreed to underwrite profits by effectively guaranteeing energy prices. It has also agreed to cap the costs to industry of decommissioning power stations and said, in last week's white paper, that the state will shoulder the costs of "ensuring the protection of the public and the environment". We already know that protecting the environment is hugely expensive. Look at Dounreay.
The Nuclear Decommissioning Agency is spending up to £100 billion dismantling the last generation of nukes, and still doesn't have a long-term solution to disposing of nuclear waste, except dumping it underground and hoping for the best. The new generation of power stations will be, we are assured, cheaper to run and will produce less waste. But the waste they do produce will be more concentrated and therefore more dangerous.
There are also new cost implications. Most nuclear stations are on low-lying coastal sites which are likely to become inundated as sea levels rise through climate change. This means an incalculable cost of building sea defences to keep the nukes dry.
Then there is the cost of security to guard the transport and storage of increased quantities of nuclear waste. And the cost of international proliferation, for countries like Iran can hardly be expected to end their nuclear programmes now. And the cost of the accidents, which will inevitably happen. You can't eliminate human error, and radioactive material always gets into the environment in the end. Just two years ago, a nuclear waste company, AEA Technology, was fined £250,000 for allowing highly toxic radiation to escape from a lorry-borne flask in the north of England.
Personally, I'd be happy to see a new generation of clean, carbon-free nuclear power stations producing electricity at low cost. But unfortunately, nuclear has never fulfilled its promise, on economics or safety, and there is no credible evidence this new generation will be any different.
But who am I to dictate energy policy? If England wants to go nuclear that is its affair, and Scotland has to accept it. However, what's wrong with hedging our bets and putting real effort into renewables in this corner of Britain? Let's see real money going into sunrise technologies, things like combined heat and power, and insulation. The vast majority of CO2 emissions result from transport and heating our homes.
This is not an easy option for Scotland. Alex Salmond has committed to cutting greenhouse gases by 80% in 40 years, yet is pressing ahead with transport policies based on fossil-fuel cars and airports. So why doesn't Westminster call his bluff? If Gordon Brown is so confident the lights will go out without nuclear, why not demonstrate this? Show that renewable energy is a nice idea but incompatible with economic growth.
Think of it as a technological experiment, with Scotland as the control. I'm sure English public opinion could be persuaded of the advantages of a dual-fuel policy if politicians showed a lead. So, come on guys. Lift the phone.
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Posted by: Los Angeles on 9:38pm Sat 12 Jan 08
Macwhirter[quote]I suspect it is because, having bet on nuclear, Westminster has to make sure it doesn't lose. It would look pretty stupid if, after covering England in nuclear dumps - sorry, above-ground monitored storage repositories - Scotland then shows they weren't necessary.[/quote] I enjoyed that remark.[quote]The Nuclear Decommissioning Agency is spending up to £100 billion dismantling the last generation of nukes, and still doesn't have a long-term solution to disposing of nuclear waste, except dumping it underground and hoping for the best. The new generation of power stations will be, we are assured, cheaper to run and will produce less waste. But the waste they do produce will be more concentrated and therefore more dangerous.[/quote] [quote]Personally, I'd be happy to see a new generation of clean, carbon-free nuclear power stations producing electricity at low cost. But unfortunately, nuclear has never fulfilled its promise, on economics or safety, and there is no credible evidence this new generation will be any different.[/quote] [quote]I'm sure English public opinion could be persuaded of the advantages of a dual-fuel policy if politicians showed a lead. So, come on guys. Lift the phone.[/quote]Co-operation is devoutly to be wished, however ...
To do that is tantamount to the British establishment, as embodied in Westminster and Whitehall, acknowledging the SNP the democratic legitimate, government of Scotland.
Did I just see a pig attempt to fly?
Macwhirter
I suspect it is because, having bet on nuclear, Westminster has to make sure it doesn't lose. It would look pretty stupid if, after covering England in nuclear dumps - sorry, above-ground monitored storage repositories - Scotland then shows they weren't necessary.
I enjoyed that remark.
The Nuclear Decommissioning Agency is spending up to £100 billion dismantling the last generation of nukes, and still doesn't have a long-term solution to disposing of nuclear waste, except dumping it underground and hoping for the best. The new generation of power stations will be, we are assured, cheaper to run and will produce less waste. But the waste they do produce will be more concentrated and therefore more dangerous.
Personally, I'd be happy to see a new generation of clean, carbon-free nuclear power stations producing electricity at low cost. But unfortunately, nuclear has never fulfilled its promise, on economics or safety, and there is no credible evidence this new generation will be any different.
I'm sure English public opinion could be persuaded of the advantages of a dual-fuel policy if politicians showed a lead. So, come on guys. Lift the phone.
Co-operation is devoutly to be wished, however ...
To do that is tantamount to the British establishment, as embodied in Westminster and Whitehall, acknowledging the SNP the democratic legitimate, government of Scotland.
Did I just see a pig attempt to fly?
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 10:00pm Sat 12 Jan 08
A plausible explanation about Westminster's hostility to Scottish renewables-based stance - they do not want to shown up as the idiots they are.
However, what I think they are really concerned about is that Scotland does not offer electricity to its consumers below the price necessary to make nuclear 'economic'. That would make the consumers in England really furious if they saw Broon's long term strategy was underpinned by artificially high prices.
Historically there was a 'nuclear levy' on electricity charges raised by the government and used to build nukes like Sizewell B. What is the status of this pernicious levy, how much is it and should Scotland still be bound by it?
A plausible explanation about Westminster's hostility to Scottish renewables-based stance - they do not want to shown up as the idiots they are.
However, what I think they are really concerned about is that Scotland does not offer electricity to its consumers below the price necessary to make nuclear 'economic'. That would make the consumers in England really furious if they saw Broon's long term strategy was underpinned by artificially high prices.
Historically there was a 'nuclear levy' on electricity charges raised by the government and used to build nukes like Sizewell B. What is the status of this pernicious levy, how much is it and should Scotland still be bound by it?
Posted by: Scamp on 11:19pm Sat 12 Jan 08
[italic][bold]"Scotland a world leader in alternatives such as clean coal, carbon capture, micro-generation." [/bold] [/italic]
Now tell me where the hell the money coming from to develop the technology and put it into production?
This isn't Norway or the USA! The banks and our other glorious financial institutions just aren't ruddy well interested.
"Scotland a world leader in alternatives such as clean coal, carbon capture, micro-generation."
Now tell me where the hell the money coming from to develop the technology and put it into production?
This isn't Norway or the USA! The banks and our other glorious financial institutions just aren't ruddy well interested.
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Corryvreckan on 11:25pm Sat 12 Jan 08
Scamp sees glass as empty, cracked and foosty...
[quote]"Scotland a world leader in alternatives such as clean coal, carbon capture, micro-generation."
Now tell me where the hell the money coming from to develop the technology and put it into production?
This isn't Norway or the USA! The banks and our other glorious financial institutions just aren't ruddy well interested.[/quote]
Don't worry Scamp, our wind and waves are up there with the best of them.
Only last week I saw a 50 knot gust.
Scamp sees glass as empty, cracked and foosty...
"Scotland a world leader in alternatives such as clean coal, carbon capture, micro-generation."
Now tell me where the hell the money coming from to develop the technology and put it into production?
This isn't Norway or the USA! The banks and our other glorious financial institutions just aren't ruddy well interested.
Don't worry Scamp, our wind and waves are up there with the best of them.
Only last week I saw a 50 knot gust.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 11:50pm Sat 12 Jan 08
Who can trust Brown when this is the kind of person he employs?
[quote]GORDON BROWN’S most senior aide has been accused of deceiving thousands of shareholders during his former business career, according to court documents.
Stephen Carter, who was last week appointed the prime minister’s chief of strategy and principal adviser, is said in the documents to have told a fellow executive who feared he had misled shareholders: “What I tell them is nine-tenths bullshit and one-tenth selected facts.”[/quote] From The Sunday Times 13th jan.
Who can trust Brown when this is the kind of person he employs?
GORDON BROWN’S most senior aide has been accused of deceiving thousands of shareholders during his former business career, according to court documents.
Stephen Carter, who was last week appointed the prime minister’s chief of strategy and principal adviser, is said in the documents to have told a fellow executive who feared he had misled shareholders: “What I tell them is nine-tenths bullshit and one-tenth selected facts.”
From The Sunday Times 13th jan.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:06am Sun 13 Jan 08
Duns Scotus Quotes Brown's Aide[quote]“What I tell them is nine-tenths bullshit and one-tenth selected facts.”[/quote]Integrity is way out of fashion.
Duns Scotus Quotes Brown's Aide
“What I tell them is nine-tenths bullshit and one-tenth selected facts.”
Integrity is way out of fashion.
Posted by: Scamp on 12:21am Sun 13 Jan 08
Lowperdowg ........ Says I see the glass as empty, cracked and foosty...
Yep - and why is that? Well it's all about experience.. Scotland is very good at developing new technologes but we are complete sh!te when it comes to commercialising them mainly because of the unavailabity of risk equity capital.
We can talk the talk but when it comes to putting our hands in our pocket then forget it..
If Scotland is serious about renewables then lets build Scottish companies building Scottish technologies to export around the world... But, whatever we do we shouldn't rely on the Scottish banks or other financial institution helping..
Lowperdowg ........ Says I see the glass as empty, cracked and foosty...
Yep - and why is that? Well it's all about experience.. Scotland is very good at developing new technologes but we are complete sh!te when it comes to commercialising them mainly because of the unavailabity of risk equity capital.
We can talk the talk but when it comes to putting our hands in our pocket then forget it..
If Scotland is serious about renewables then lets build Scottish companies building Scottish technologies to export around the world... But, whatever we do we shouldn't rely on the Scottish banks or other financial institution helping..
Posted by: Liberator on 1:05am Sun 13 Jan 08
Scotland has great potential to be at the forefront of renewable industry but only if it gets the government backing it needs. THe SNP need to come of the fence and back it or all their promises about reducing our carbon emissions will be hollow.
Alex Salmond went to a Fife coalfield a few weeks after becoming First Minister and said "coal is king". That simply won't do. So called "clean coal" is no such thing - it is only a bit cleaner. We need to see the current government making some promises of the sort Nicol Stephen was making when he was in charge of energy policy before it is too late.
Scotland has great potential to be at the forefront of renewable industry but only if it gets the government backing it needs. THe SNP need to come of the fence and back it or all their promises about reducing our carbon emissions will be hollow.
Alex Salmond went to a Fife coalfield a few weeks after becoming First Minister and said "coal is king". That simply won't do. So called "clean coal" is no such thing - it is only a bit cleaner. We need to see the current government making some promises of the sort Nicol Stephen was making when he was in charge of energy policy before it is too late.
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 1:35am Sun 13 Jan 08
Liberator
Coal is "King" in conjunction with carbon capture technology.
Liberator
Coal is "King" in conjunction with carbon capture technology.
Posted by: richard, West Lothian on 1:35am Sun 13 Jan 08
Liberator
Coal is "King" in conjunction with carbon capture technology.
Liberator
Coal is "King" in conjunction with carbon capture technology.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:36am Sun 13 Jan 08
It's looking a bit more positive for the carbon capture plant at Peterheed, BP have linked up with RIo to hopefully move it ahead, we should hear in the next few weeks hopefully.....
http://www.buchanie.
co.uk/archived/2007/
week_21/news/carbon.
asp
It's looking a bit more positive for the carbon capture plant at Peterheed, BP have linked up with RIo to hopefully move it ahead, we should hear in the next few weeks hopefully.....
http://www.buchanie.
co.uk/archived/2007/
week_21/news/carbon.
asp
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:41am Sun 13 Jan 08
[bold]100% RENEWABLES IS POSSIBLE: LOOK EAST[/bold]
Germany is advancing with resolve in a transition to 100% renewable energy.
The German government accepts the goal is technically and economically feasible, and has adopted a long-term national policy for the transition. After years of reliance on nuclear energy - which currently supplies 30% of the nation's electricity - Germany has concluded that nuclear is a dead-end and has established long term plans to phase it out.
Germany's most urgent conclusion is that the period lasting until about 2020 comprises "make-or-break" years for the renewable energy transition.
It is this conviction that has driven German policy makers to introduce the world's most aggressive support for renewables, to stick with it during the past decade and to guarantee that support for the next 20-30 years.
THIS COULD BE THE WAY FORWARD FOR SCOTLAND OVER THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS
100% RENEWABLES IS POSSIBLE: LOOK EAST
Germany is advancing with resolve in a transition to 100% renewable energy.
The German government accepts the goal is technically and economically feasible, and has adopted a long-term national policy for the transition. After years of reliance on nuclear energy - which currently supplies 30% of the nation's electricity - Germany has concluded that nuclear is a dead-end and has established long term plans to phase it out.
Germany's most urgent conclusion is that the period lasting until about 2020 comprises "make-or-break" years for the renewable energy transition.
It is this conviction that has driven German policy makers to introduce the world's most aggressive support for renewables, to stick with it during the past decade and to guarantee that support for the next 20-30 years.
THIS COULD BE THE WAY FORWARD FOR SCOTLAND OVER THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 1:58am Sun 13 Jan 08
Can we put this into perspective? Germany, with no wind or tidal resources to speak of, are about to become renewable front-runner?
Can we put this into perspective? Germany, with no wind or tidal resources to speak of, are about to become renewable front-runner?
Posted by: Scamp on 2:10am Sun 13 Jan 08
nouveauxscum .... Yes. For example Germany has developed and is already exploiting biogas fired power generation and is big in other biomass technology. For example - the Eon biomass generator being built at Lockerbie uses German Siemens technology.
Scotland is catching up though. I found a company on the web that builds wood burning stoves :-)
nouveauxscum .... Yes. For example Germany has developed and is already exploiting biogas fired power generation and is big in other biomass technology. For example - the Eon biomass generator being built at Lockerbie uses German Siemens technology.
Scotland is catching up though. I found a company on the web that builds wood burning stoves :-)
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 2:15am Sun 13 Jan 08
“Look chaps, before we start waffling about the poor, about redistribution of wealth, about private health care, private education, about commercial warfare and CO2 emissions, about nuclear power, about ferment of ideas, global poverty, about overstating things, about charting a new course, about backing Tony Blair, and about the humanities, we must recognise that [bold]the existing monetary system is a stinking rotten fraud[/bold] and that Britain can never pull itself up by its boot straps until we correct what is wrong with our economics”
This little bit of wisdom is from an Englishman and Tory. But he is correct here, and while it is technically feasible for Scots to produce most of our electricity from renewables by 2020, it will not be done unless we issue our own currency to trade physical goods and services and have a national bank for reconstruction. In effect Scotland becomes a working independent nation-state.
Otherwise the 2008 crises in the eurobanking zone will see regional and national rescue packages but leave Scotland in its accustommed poverty. Which is where the bankers want us for the option and profits in toxic waste storage.
“Look chaps, before we start waffling about the poor, about redistribution of wealth, about private health care, private education, about commercial warfare and CO2 emissions, about nuclear power, about ferment of ideas, global poverty, about overstating things, about charting a new course, about backing Tony Blair, and about the humanities, we must recognise that
the existing monetary system is a stinking rotten fraud and that Britain can never pull itself up by its boot straps until we correct what is wrong with our economics”
This little bit of wisdom is from an Englishman and Tory. But he is correct here, and while it is technically feasible for Scots to produce most of our electricity from renewables by 2020, it will not be done unless we issue our own currency to trade physical goods and services and have a national bank for reconstruction. In effect Scotland becomes a working independent nation-state.
Otherwise the 2008 crises in the eurobanking zone will see regional and national rescue packages but leave Scotland in its accustommed poverty. Which is where the bankers want us for the option and profits in toxic waste storage.
Posted by: gadgie on 2:23am Sun 13 Jan 08
It's broon who is keen for the English to have nuclear power not the English.
It's broon who is keen for the English to have nuclear power not the English.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:29am Sun 13 Jan 08
When you need a gondola to get around Glasgow there will be work for Yok. Perhaps gondola production will become our major industry -exporting to places like Manhattan, London, and Paris!
I think most of us are living in denial and the debate over future energy requirements id the most obvious symptom of that.
A wicked wind this way blows!
When you need a gondola to get around Glasgow there will be work for Yok. Perhaps gondola production will become our major industry -exporting to places like Manhattan, London, and Paris!
I think most of us are living in denial and the debate over future energy requirements id the most obvious symptom of that.
A wicked wind this way blows!
Posted by: Kampung Highlander, Jakarta on 3:31am Sun 13 Jan 08
There has been some very valid points made about Scotlands seeming inability at capital formation holding us back from fully exploiting the opportunity to develope a renewable technology industry. The low level of capital formation is directly attributable to how we have historically treated wealth. A tax policy thats seeks to milk as much as possible from those who take risks and are successful does little to encourage capital formation. Here is a couple of ideas that may help. 1. Allow people to contribute to Venture Capital funds and allow them to deduct that 100% from there taxable income. 2. Allow companies that are formed to exploit opportunities in Renewable Energy Technologies a permanent holiday from Corporate Tax. Capital always goes to where its treated best. If you treat Capital better it will come. However all of this will only be possible if Scotland gains complete control over tax policy.
There has been some very valid points made about Scotlands seeming inability at capital formation holding us back from fully exploiting the opportunity to develope a renewable technology industry. The low level of capital formation is directly attributable to how we have historically treated wealth. A tax policy thats seeks to milk as much as possible from those who take risks and are successful does little to encourage capital formation. Here is a couple of ideas that may help. 1. Allow people to contribute to Venture Capital funds and allow them to deduct that 100% from there taxable income. 2. Allow companies that are formed to exploit opportunities in Renewable Energy Technologies a permanent holiday from Corporate Tax. Capital always goes to where its treated best. If you treat Capital better it will come. However all of this will only be possible if Scotland gains complete control over tax policy.
Posted by: TomSwift, USA on 4:28am Sun 13 Jan 08
"Germany is advancing with resolve in a transition to 100% renewable energy."
Aren't German electric rates about the highest in the world, though?
"Germany is advancing with resolve in a transition to 100% renewable energy."
Aren't German electric rates about the highest in the world, though?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 4:34am Sun 13 Jan 08
When the lights start going off in the pubs in Glasgow. The neds will be shouting and screaming for nuclear energy. Glaswegians cant get drunk in the dark. Does the government want to build Dutch windmills on every street corner ? or is my washing machine going to be connected to a giant ferris wheel with a little mouse going round it to generate the power.
Build a couple of nuclear power stations in Easterhouse or the Gorbals, the place is radio active anyway.
When the lights start going off in the pubs in Glasgow. The neds will be shouting and screaming for nuclear energy. Glaswegians cant get drunk in the dark. Does the government want to build Dutch windmills on every street corner ? or is my washing machine going to be connected to a giant ferris wheel with a little mouse going round it to generate the power.
Build a couple of nuclear power stations in Easterhouse or the Gorbals, the place is radio active anyway.
Posted by: buccleuch, Glasow on 5:20am Sun 13 Jan 08
[bold]bold[/bold] Nuclear power is not carbon free!
I despair that this is constantly touted. It's complete bull.
The entire process of a nuclear plant is as follows:
Mining
Conversion
Enrichment
Fuel Element Enrichment
Construction of power plant
Decomimissing and dismnatling
Radioactive waste processsing
Construction of repository
Final dsiposal
If a plant runs for 30 odd years the above entire cycle lasts 100-150 years.
The most energy intensive part of this process is the mining with high quality uranium ore set to run out with the world wide rush to nuclearise leading to an exponential rise in energy required to mine the remaining lower grade ore.
With ALL the above properly factored in and not conveniently ignored nuclear plants emit the eqivalent CO2 to a gas turbine plant.
[bold]bold[/bold] Enough of this phony arguement!
Read www.stormsmith.nl
Excellent peer reviewed and published research from two former nuclear scientists.
Nuclear power is not carbon free!
I despair that this is constantly touted. It's complete bull.
The entire process of a nuclear plant is as follows:
Mining
Conversion
Enrichment
Fuel Element Enrichment
Construction of power plant
Decomimissing and dismnatling
Radioactive waste processsing
Construction of repository
Final dsiposal
If a plant runs for 30 odd years the above entire cycle lasts 100-150 years.
The most energy intensive part of this process is the mining with high quality uranium ore set to run out with the world wide rush to nuclearise leading to an exponential rise in energy required to mine the remaining lower grade ore.
With ALL the above properly factored in and not conveniently ignored nuclear plants emit the eqivalent CO2 to a gas turbine plant.
Enough of this phony arguement!
Read www.stormsmith.nl
Excellent peer reviewed and published research from two former nuclear scientists.
Posted by: Liberator on 5:40am Sun 13 Jan 08
Suggesting that the lights are going to go off in the pubs of Glasgow is nothing more than a distorting scare-mongerng lie.
Suggesting that the lights are going to go off in the pubs of Glasgow is nothing more than a distorting scare-mongerng lie.
Posted by: Plolov on 8:09am Sun 13 Jan 08
buccleuch:[quote]Nuclear power is not carbon free![/quote] [quote]Read www.stormsmith.nl
Excellent peer reviewed and published research from two former nuclear scientists. [/quote]
The source you quote has never been published in any peer-reviewed journal, in contrast to many other studies that show the life-cycle emissions of nuclear power to be similar to wind and hydro (can essentially be approximated to zero with respect to coal and gas).
The stormsmith report was produced by two solar power advocates (although one had worked in the nuclear industry some decades ago) at the behest of the ideologically anti-nuclear green parties of Europe. Its underlying assumptions concerning the energy used for mining, enrichment, construction, etc have been analysed in the two links below and found to overestimate measured energy use by up to two orders of magnitude.
http://www.nuclearin
fo.net
http://gabe.web.psi.
ch/pdfs/Critical%20n
ote%20GHG%20PSI.pdf
As to the articles main point, I wholeheartedly endorse it. The kneejerk reaction against nuclear by the SNP will ensure that the optimistic predictions of Greenpeace, FoE, etc concerning the practicality of large scale generation from renewables and carbon capture will be tested to destruction somewhere in the UK. While this could lead to far higher prices and power cuts in Scotland in the event that the misgivings of engineers and scientists are realised, this will benefit both the people of Scotland and the wider UK in the long term by illustrating the necessity of nuclear power.
I applaud Scotland's bravery on this issue.
buccleuch:
Nuclear power is not carbon free!
Read www.stormsmith.nl
Excellent peer reviewed and published research from two former nuclear scientists.
The source you quote has never been published in any peer-reviewed journal, in contrast to many other studies that show the life-cycle emissions of nuclear power to be similar to wind and hydro (can essentially be approximated to zero with respect to coal and gas).
The stormsmith report was produced by two solar power advocates (although one had worked in the nuclear industry some decades ago) at the behest of the ideologically anti-nuclear green parties of Europe. Its underlying assumptions concerning the energy used for mining, enrichment, construction, etc have been analysed in the two links below and found to overestimate measured energy use by up to two orders of magnitude.
http://www.nuclearin
fo.net
http://gabe.web.psi.
ch/pdfs/Critical%20n
ote%20GHG%20PSI.pdf
As to the articles main point, I wholeheartedly endorse it. The kneejerk reaction against nuclear by the SNP will ensure that the optimistic predictions of Greenpeace, FoE, etc concerning the practicality of large scale generation from renewables and carbon capture will be tested to destruction somewhere in the UK. While this could lead to far higher prices and power cuts in Scotland in the event that the misgivings of engineers and scientists are realised, this will benefit both the people of Scotland and the wider UK in the long term by illustrating the necessity of nuclear power.
I applaud Scotland's bravery on this issue.
Posted by: Donscots, Holland on 9:00am Sun 13 Jan 08
"But who am I to dictate energy policy? If England wants to go nuclear that is its affair, and Scotland has to accept it."
Scotland may be forced to accept it - but the decision to go nuclear is hardly England's affair alone. Nuclear waste is no respecter of borders, as the Irish are well aware. They protested long and loud about having Sellafield in their back pond. In the worst case to be separated by a continent is not far enough as Cumbrian farmers discovered when Chernobyl blew up.
"But who am I to dictate energy policy? If England wants to go nuclear that is its affair, and Scotland has to accept it."
Scotland may be forced to accept it - but the decision to go nuclear is hardly England's affair alone. Nuclear waste is no respecter of borders, as the Irish are well aware. They protested long and loud about having Sellafield in their back pond. In the worst case to be separated by a continent is not far enough as Cumbrian farmers discovered when Chernobyl blew up.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:27am Sun 13 Jan 08
I must be betraying some latent tory roots or something but I had a lot of time for what David Cameron was saying today on the Andrew Marr Show. He stressed the idea of a decentralized energy system, local district heating schemes, CHP Plant within communities (whether built into Schools or other Public Buildings) and moving away from the centralizing nature of BIG new nuclear so as not to be at the mercy of the Power Production Companies when these inevitably come looking for subsidy......
It's an interesting issue, are Labour putting ALL of their eggs into the nuclear basket? - they certainly seem to believe that ONLY nuclear can save us, even though it's net contribution to reducing CO2 is actually extremely un-cost effective.... I'm not sure that Gordon Brown is capable of conceptualizing a decentralized power system where energy companies have tariffs that allow smaller scale suppliers to feedback into the grid...... clunking fist of centralization.....
It is an interesting comparison with Germany, thee aim has been to go for 100% renewables and they have been pursuing this siince the early 1990's and have subsequently built up not only a strong renewables R+D & Manufacturing base but are exporting their best technology Globally.
Scotland on the otherhand have 60% of the available Wind & Tidal resources of europe and have found it difficult to get proper UK funding for the R+D of tidal schemes...... yet the government is happy to risk potentially billions on the 'non-subsidised' nuclear industry - it's this that shows the government's true colours, piecemeal investment and tax relief on renewables research and installation , even less in the issue that would reduce our base load requirements ENERGY SAVING but quite happy to squander both time and potentially tax payers money on a polluting power source that might not even be ready on time to fiull the Uk Gap......... Broon's LEGACY?
Here's hoping the the new Scottish Government get the right mix in their imminent Energy Strategy by aiming to achieve 100% renewables and helping to create/develop a whole industry so that we might export our manufacturing and expertise of these new sustainable technologies globally in due course.... stragetic funding of Research & Development, tax incentives to encourage installation and purchase and agreeing with the BIg Energy Comopanies a solution to tarffis where energy can easily be added to the grid. A review of planning frameworks also to allow a greater emphasis on power producing proposals to be given sa greater strategic importance and a full scale ENERGY SAVING strategy that includes raising newbuild standard and putting public money and tax incentives for energy efficient upgrades firmly into the public's imagination if for no other than reason than reducing their fuel bill and therefore reducing their Co2 emissions.....
This must surely be the way forward for Scotland.?
I must be betraying some latent tory roots or something but I had a lot of time for what David Cameron was saying today on the Andrew Marr Show. He stressed the idea of a decentralized energy system, local district heating schemes, CHP Plant within communities (whether built into Schools or other Public Buildings) and moving away from the centralizing nature of BIG new nuclear so as not to be at the mercy of the Power Production Companies when these inevitably come looking for subsidy......
It's an interesting issue, are Labour putting ALL of their eggs into the nuclear basket? - they certainly seem to believe that ONLY nuclear can save us, even though it's net contribution to reducing CO2 is actually extremely un-cost effective.... I'm not sure that Gordon Brown is capable of conceptualizing a decentralized power system where energy companies have tariffs that allow smaller scale suppliers to feedback into the grid...... clunking fist of centralization.....
It is an interesting comparison with Germany, thee aim has been to go for 100% renewables and they have been pursuing this siince the early 1990's and have subsequently built up not only a strong renewables R+D & Manufacturing base but are exporting their best technology Globally.
Scotland on the otherhand have 60% of the available Wind & Tidal resources of europe and have found it difficult to get proper UK funding for the R+D of tidal schemes...... yet the government is happy to risk potentially billions on the 'non-subsidised' nuclear industry - it's this that shows the government's true colours, piecemeal investment and tax relief on renewables research and installation , even less in the issue that would reduce our base load requirements ENERGY SAVING but quite happy to squander both time and potentially tax payers money on a polluting power source that might not even be ready on time to fiull the Uk Gap......... Broon's LEGACY?
Here's hoping the the new Scottish Government get the right mix in their imminent Energy Strategy by aiming to achieve 100% renewables and helping to create/develop a whole industry so that we might export our manufacturing and expertise of these new sustainable technologies globally in due course.... stragetic funding of Research & Development, tax incentives to encourage installation and purchase and agreeing with the BIg Energy Comopanies a solution to tarffis where energy can easily be added to the grid. A review of planning frameworks also to allow a greater emphasis on power producing proposals to be given sa greater strategic importance and a full scale ENERGY SAVING strategy that includes raising newbuild standard and putting public money and tax incentives for energy efficient upgrades firmly into the public's imagination if for no other than reason than reducing their fuel bill and therefore reducing their Co2 emissions.....
This must surely be the way forward for Scotland.?
Posted by: Scott, Perth on 10:31am Sun 13 Jan 08
Well done Iain, the difference in quality between the Sunday Herald and Scotland on (doom doom SNP doom) Sunday is incredible. No wonder thier sales are plummeting.
Well done Iain, the difference in quality between the Sunday Herald and Scotland on (doom doom SNP doom) Sunday is incredible. No wonder thier sales are plummeting.
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 10:47am Sun 13 Jan 08
The only reason for Nuclear power station is as a cover for the production of weapon grade material. If this were not so, then we would have developed fusion many years ago.
If the above does not hold true, why are the "Democracies" so intent on preventing other Nations from developing their own Nuclear power?
The only reason for Nuclear power station is as a cover for the production of weapon grade material. If this were not so, then we would have developed fusion many years ago.
If the above does not hold true, why are the "Democracies" so intent on preventing other Nations from developing their own Nuclear power?
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:54am Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]frank mcbride[/bold] wrote:
The only reason for Nuclear power station is as a cover for the production of weapon grade material. If this were not so, then we would have developed fusion many years ago.
If the above does not hold true, why are the "Democracies" so intent on preventing other Nations from developing their own Nuclear power?[/quote] Broon getting 'two for one' - Keeping trident 'refuelled' also..... either way we'd al' be DOMMED a' tell ya DOOMED!
frank mcbride wrote:
The only reason for Nuclear power station is as a cover for the production of weapon grade material. If this were not so, then we would have developed fusion many years ago.
If the above does not hold true, why are the "Democracies" so intent on preventing other Nations from developing their own Nuclear power?
Broon getting 'two for one' - Keeping trident 'refuelled' also..... either way we'd al' be DOMMED a' tell ya DOOMED!
Posted by: Thinking Crumpet, Glasgow on 10:58am Sun 13 Jan 08
[bold]DOOMED / DOOME / DOOM / BOOM / BROOM / BROON[/bold]
DOOMED / DOOME / DOOM / BOOM / BROOM / BROON
Posted by: Eric, Inverness on 11:00am Sun 13 Jan 08
Denmark are the lead country in Europe for renewables just now and they have one of the highest carbon footprints. Scotland's CO2 emissions rose by 14% between 2005 and 2006 and have risen considerably more since then. The highest rise in emissions of any country in the developed world? Why? - because of the neglect of our nuclear power stations and our insane belief that renewables will ever produce more than a tiny amount of unstable electricity. The man Macwhirter needs to learn some facts before he puts pen to paper again.
Denmark are the lead country in Europe for renewables just now and they have one of the highest carbon footprints. Scotland's CO2 emissions rose by 14% between 2005 and 2006 and have risen considerably more since then. The highest rise in emissions of any country in the developed world? Why? - because of the neglect of our nuclear power stations and our insane belief that renewables will ever produce more than a tiny amount of unstable electricity. The man Macwhirter needs to learn some facts before he puts pen to paper again.
Posted by: Carolus, Glasgow on 11:03am Sun 13 Jan 08
Excellent clarity Iain
Germany has enough solar in place to have avoided six nuclear stations with 250,000 persons in employment in solar.
When our country Scotland can bring on one new hydro station for a fraction of the cost with virtually benign technology and to satisfy the whole of Glasgow and there are more mountain lochs to be captured, tidal water surge power plants and wind, why should we take such a needless nuclear risk?
Flying not long ago over London, Canary Wharf was ablaze with Light like some Financial New Jerusalem. That sight along with the planned next runway for Heathrow has convinced me that for Blair-Brown-London Neocons, it is to be business as usual... including imperial wars for resources. And for the ‘seat at the big table’, I appreciate that London needs nuclear to generate plutonium for the next Trident replacement.
For Scotland, London is a Liability.
Excellent clarity Iain
Germany has enough solar in place to have avoided six nuclear stations with 250,000 persons in employment in solar.
When our country Scotland can bring on one new hydro station for a fraction of the cost with virtually benign technology and to satisfy the whole of Glasgow and there are more mountain lochs to be captured, tidal water surge power plants and wind, why should we take such a needless nuclear risk?
Flying not long ago over London, Canary Wharf was ablaze with Light like some Financial New Jerusalem. That sight along with the planned next runway for Heathrow has convinced me that for Blair-Brown-London Neocons, it is to be business as usual... including imperial wars for resources. And for the ‘seat at the big table’, I appreciate that London needs nuclear to generate plutonium for the next Trident replacement.
For Scotland, London is a Liability.
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 11:04am Sun 13 Jan 08
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am
[quote]Scotland's CO2 emissions rose by 14% between 2005 and 2006 and have risen considerably more since then. The highest rise in emissions of any country in the developed world[/quote]
Do you have evidence for this?
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am
Scotland's CO2 emissions rose by 14% between 2005 and 2006 and have risen considerably more since then. The highest rise in emissions of any country in the developed world
Do you have evidence for this?
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 11:08am Sun 13 Jan 08
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am
[quote]Denmark are the lead country in Europe for renewables just now and they have one of the highest carbon footprints[/quote]
Do you have evidence for this?
Highest when compared to what?
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am
Denmark are the lead country in Europe for renewables just now and they have one of the highest carbon footprints
Do you have evidence for this?
Highest when compared to what?
Posted by: Hamish, Argyll on 11:26am Sun 13 Jan 08
Why do we have 2 nuclear power stations in Scotland today which according to some posts are almostsurplus to requirements or will be when we have harnessed more of our renewable power?
40 or 50 years ago when their construction was planned Scotland had a strong industrial and manufacturing sector.Since then we lost shipbuilding, steelmaking, coal mining,textile and clothing manufacturers,food manufacturers,vehicl
e plants and many other industries.As these large electricity users closed down our requirements dropped to todays level with much of our surplus being moved south to where it is needed particularly since England is having to import electricity from France.
From a purely Scottish point of view we have had the luxury of an increasing surplus of electricity for many years as the new post- industrial jobs were very much less energy-dependent.
The question is ,if 40/50 years ago the employment mix was the same as it is today would these nuclear power stations have been built in the first place as their output would not have been needed for Scotland?
However they are not Scotlands they are part of the national grid.
I think we should now go all out for
renewables and independence .
Not necessarily in that order.
We are the envy of the world with our renewable potential.
GO FOR IT!
Why do we have 2 nuclear power stations in Scotland today which according to some posts are almostsurplus to requirements or will be when we have harnessed more of our renewable power?
40 or 50 years ago when their construction was planned Scotland had a strong industrial and manufacturing sector.Since then we lost shipbuilding, steelmaking, coal mining,textile and clothing manufacturers,food manufacturers,vehicl
e plants and many other industries.As these large electricity users closed down our requirements dropped to todays level with much of our surplus being moved south to where it is needed particularly since England is having to import electricity from France.
From a purely Scottish point of view we have had the luxury of an increasing surplus of electricity for many years as the new post- industrial jobs were very much less energy-dependent.
The question is ,if 40/50 years ago the employment mix was the same as it is today would these nuclear power stations have been built in the first place as their output would not have been needed for Scotland?
However they are not Scotlands they are part of the national grid.
I think we should now go all out for
renewables and independence .
Not necessarily in that order.
We are the envy of the world with our renewable potential.
GO FOR IT!
Posted by: Eric, Inverness on 11:41am Sun 13 Jan 08
Alan [quote]Do you have evidence for this?[/quote]
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)
Alan
Do you have evidence for this?
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)
Posted by: Ross, Wemyss Bay on 11:42am Sun 13 Jan 08
Another wonderful piece of reporting based on facts and not prejudice. Just one question how are you going to placate the environmentalists who do not want wind turbines all over Scotland or our coastal waters?
Also what do we do when the wind stops blowing?
How much CO2 will be produced when building new coal fired power stations and establishing the carbon capture systems?
What is the cost of building all the wind turbines, maintenance and decommissioning them at the end of their life span?
What happens when the wind blows too hard?
Renewables are required but cannot totally replace the existing base load generation.
Just one more question, how long does it take to turn on a coal fire power station? Hopefully it will be instantaneous for those times the wind stops/blows too hard etc. If not we will need to burn coal to keep them running all the time (even when the renewables are generating electricity)
Another wonderful piece of reporting based on facts and not prejudice. Just one question how are you going to placate the environmentalists who do not want wind turbines all over Scotland or our coastal waters?
Also what do we do when the wind stops blowing?
How much CO2 will be produced when building new coal fired power stations and establishing the carbon capture systems?
What is the cost of building all the wind turbines, maintenance and decommissioning them at the end of their life span?
What happens when the wind blows too hard?
Renewables are required but cannot totally replace the existing base load generation.
Just one more question, how long does it take to turn on a coal fire power station? Hopefully it will be instantaneous for those times the wind stops/blows too hard etc. If not we will need to burn coal to keep them running all the time (even when the renewables are generating electricity)
Posted by: Nukular Warrior, Aberdeen on 1:36pm Sun 13 Jan 08
I cannot believe that we have come this far in seeing nuclear power as somehow acceptable in a few short years.
I have a strong visceral antipathy to the whole idea of going down that route again - as I am sure have many Labour supporters.
The whole issue about disposal of waste still places it far beyond the pale as far as I am concerned. Are we prepared to mortgage the future for following generations by allowing the build-up of more waste that will cost them billions and will take hundreds of years to clean up?
I'd rather cut back on my own consumption, place a windmill on my roof and buy solar panels than do that.
I've never been one for direct action, but would be there in person on a regular basis if anyone tries to build a nuclear plant in Scotland.
So those are the stakes folks- this is much bigger than Aleck Salmond or Gordon Brown.
I have absolutely no doubt that we can solve all our own energy needs in Scotland given investment and commitment. It may mean hard personal decisions for many people- but I'm up for that. The whole idea that the power begins to run out in 2016 and the nuclear plants won't be ready until 2025 shows how stupid putting all our eggs in that basket is. Given our record on huge civil engineering projects I think you could add 5-10 years to that.
NUK
I cannot believe that we have come this far in seeing nuclear power as somehow acceptable in a few short years.
I have a strong visceral antipathy to the whole idea of going down that route again - as I am sure have many Labour supporters.
The whole issue about disposal of waste still places it far beyond the pale as far as I am concerned. Are we prepared to mortgage the future for following generations by allowing the build-up of more waste that will cost them billions and will take hundreds of years to clean up?
I'd rather cut back on my own consumption, place a windmill on my roof and buy solar panels than do that.
I've never been one for direct action, but would be there in person on a regular basis if anyone tries to build a nuclear plant in Scotland.
So those are the stakes folks- this is much bigger than Aleck Salmond or Gordon Brown.
I have absolutely no doubt that we can solve all our own energy needs in Scotland given investment and commitment. It may mean hard personal decisions for many people- but I'm up for that. The whole idea that the power begins to run out in 2016 and the nuclear plants won't be ready until 2025 shows how stupid putting all our eggs in that basket is. Given our record on huge civil engineering projects I think you could add 5-10 years to that.
NUK
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 1:49pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Eric[/bold] wrote:
Alan [quote]Do you have evidence for this?[/quote]
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)[/quote] (A)I can't find this announcement , can you post a link and confirm whether the emission rate is solely connected to power production of Co2 emission in total?
(B) I can't see any figures for Scotland in these tables, only UK
Eric wrote:
Alan Do you have evidence for this?
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)
(A)I can't find this announcement , can you post a link and confirm whether the emission rate is solely connected to power production of Co2 emission in total?
(B) I can't see any figures for Scotland in these tables, only UK
Posted by: MacGille Labhear, ABerdeenshire on 2:03pm Sun 13 Jan 08
I have posted several times on the Herald advocating Under Ground Coal Gasification coupled to Carbon Capture, CHP and District Heating and any type of renewable but I have not mentioned my own preference which is Geothermal.
Here is sn extract from the SEPA Website;
Dubbed the 'sleeping giant' of renewable energies, geothermal energy offers an opportunity for Scotland to reduce its reliance on non-renewable sources. Geothermal International’s Managing Director in Scotland, Dee Ward, said: "The potential for harnessing geothermal energy in Scotland is massive."
I have not gone beyond doing some research as yet but believe a borehole in my driveway as the energy source for a heatpump may save me a considerable amount of metered energy consumption.
Airsourced heatpumps are cheaper to instal but do not give such consistent outputs.
My intention is not to renew my existing heating "like for like".
Anyone any experience of heat pumps?
I have posted several times on the Herald advocating Under Ground Coal Gasification coupled to Carbon Capture, CHP and District Heating and any type of renewable but I have not mentioned my own preference which is Geothermal.
Here is sn extract from the SEPA Website;
Dubbed the 'sleeping giant' of renewable energies, geothermal energy offers an opportunity for Scotland to reduce its reliance on non-renewable sources. Geothermal International’s Managing Director in Scotland, Dee Ward, said: "The potential for harnessing geothermal energy in Scotland is massive."
I have not gone beyond doing some research as yet but believe a borehole in my driveway as the energy source for a heatpump may save me a considerable amount of metered energy consumption.
Airsourced heatpumps are cheaper to instal but do not give such consistent outputs.
My intention is not to renew my existing heating "like for like".
Anyone any experience of heat pumps?
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:11pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Alan[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Eric[/bold] wrote:
Alan [quote]Do you have evidence for this?[/quote]
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)[/quote] (A)I can't find this announcement , can you post a link and confirm whether the emission rate is solely connected to power production of Co2 emission in total?
(B) I can't see any figures for Scotland in these tables, only UK
[/quote] Alan
Between them, the three power stations emitted 4.6 million tonnes more carbon dioxide in 2006 than in 2005, swamping significant cuts in emissions achieved by other industries. As a result, there was an overall rise of 10% in carbon pollution from Scottish industry
The increases are blamed partly on higher gas prices, which made it more economic to burn coal, a situation SEPA says is likely to persist "for the next couple of years".
[bold]Prolonged safety shutdowns[/bold] of the nuclear reactors at Hunterston and Torness also boosted demand for electricity from alternative sources.
BACKGROUND Between 1990 and 2005, Scotland's greenhouse gas emissions fell by 15-per cent, largely because of the closure of the Ravenscraig steel works in 1992
See the full artiale at
http://findarticles.
com/p/articles/mi_qn
4156/is_20071021/ai_
n21061023
All the more reason to invest heavily in a broad range of renewables and centralizing power production in the residential sector to combat co2 emissions, base load demand and fuel poverty.....
Alan wrote:
Eric wrote:
Alan Do you have evidence for this?
(A) Scottish Executive announcement (laughably headed up "drop in CO2 emissions") of 18/9/07 gives emissions as 14.9mtc in 2005 and 16.1 mtc in 2006. Note explains that this was as a result of power stations which means they rose by 35%
(B)Herald is lousy at posting links but try this :-http://cdiac.esd.o
rnl.gov/trends/emis/
tre_coun.htm
Or just Google "National Fossil-Fuel CO2 Emissions" and you will get the figures.
Co2 emissions rise here was because we are trying to folLow the Danish route rather than the French one. (Smallest carbon footprint in the developed world -same web site as above.)
(A)I can't find this announcement , can you post a link and confirm whether the emission rate is solely connected to power production of Co2 emission in total?
(B) I can't see any figures for Scotland in these tables, only UK
Alan
Between them, the three power stations emitted 4.6 million tonnes more carbon dioxide in 2006 than in 2005, swamping significant cuts in emissions achieved by other industries. As a result, there was an overall rise of 10% in carbon pollution from Scottish industry
The increases are blamed partly on higher gas prices, which made it more economic to burn coal, a situation SEPA says is likely to persist "for the next couple of years".
Prolonged safety shutdowns of the nuclear reactors at Hunterston and Torness also boosted demand for electricity from alternative sources.
BACKGROUND Between 1990 and 2005, Scotland's greenhouse gas emissions fell by 15-per cent, largely because of the closure of the Ravenscraig steel works in 1992
See the full artiale at
http://findarticles.
com/p/articles/mi_qn
4156/is_20071021/ai_
n21061023
All the more reason to invest heavily in a broad range of renewables and centralizing power production in the residential sector to combat co2 emissions, base load demand and fuel poverty.....
Posted by: wardog, Buckie on 2:13pm Sun 13 Jan 08
That should have read......"[bold]de-centralising.[/bold] power produdction.."
That should have read......"
de-centralising. power produdction.."
Posted by: HEN BROON, Glasgow on 2:19pm Sun 13 Jan 08
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=xfzVQwW_8
Jk
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=tR8gEMpzo
s4
Germany seems to have got the balance right, what is the problem?
Nuclear distorts the market because of the huge investment in decommissioning, starving renewables of funds.
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=xfzVQwW_8
Jk
http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=tR8gEMpzo
s4
Germany seems to have got the balance right, what is the problem?
Nuclear distorts the market because of the huge investment in decommissioning, starving renewables of funds.
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 2:42pm Sun 13 Jan 08
PM Brown's brother, fronts a dept.of the french
nuclear company that would be buiding the plants in Britain. Nothing more needs to be said!!!
PM Brown's brother, fronts a dept.of the french
nuclear company that would be buiding the plants in Britain. Nothing more needs to be said!!!
Posted by: De-commissioner, Dounraey on 2:59pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]rob4i[/bold] wrote:
PM Brown's brother, fronts a dept.of the french
nuclear company that would be buiding the plants in Britain. Nothing more needs to be said!!![/quote] Give us more - [bold]got any links?>[/bold]
rob4i wrote:
PM Brown's brother, fronts a dept.of the french
nuclear company that would be buiding the plants in Britain. Nothing more needs to be said!!!
Give us more -
got any links?> Posted by: morag, Edinburgh on 3:01pm Sun 13 Jan 08
Alan link to press release is http://www.scotland.
gov.uk/News/Releases
/2007/09/18095902.
Alan link to press release is http://www.scotland.
gov.uk/News/Releases
/2007/09/18095902.
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 3:29pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]morag[/bold] wrote:
Alan link to press release is http://www.scotland.
gov.uk/News/Releases
/2007/09/18095902.
[/quote] Thanks Morag
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am today
This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..
According to Wardog's post above emissions from power stations went up due mainly to the two nulcear power stations being offline due to safety shutdowns, I'd imagine if these nuclear stations are currently operating with these inefficiencies this issue won't be 'fixed' by building new nucealr plant, it will take 10-15 years to get the new stations online.
I'd have thought that oif Co2 emissions were the key criteria then we'd be better investing NOW in carbon capture and cleaner coal technologies whilst boosting renewables to maximize their potential input in 10-15 years time to cover for Nuclear and help us reduce the coal/gas burning requirements.
Co2 emissions from Power Plants account for 37% of Scotland's total c02 emissions - we should surely be tackling base energy demand through Energy Saving Measures and transport if we're really serious about reducing Co2 emissions.
morag wrote:
Alan link to press release is http://www.scotland.
gov.uk/News/Releases
/2007/09/18095902.
Thanks Morag
Eric, Inverness on 11:00am today
This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..
According to Wardog's post above emissions from power stations went up due mainly to the two nulcear power stations being offline due to safety shutdowns, I'd imagine if these nuclear stations are currently operating with these inefficiencies this issue won't be 'fixed' by building new nucealr plant, it will take 10-15 years to get the new stations online.
I'd have thought that oif Co2 emissions were the key criteria then we'd be better investing NOW in carbon capture and cleaner coal technologies whilst boosting renewables to maximize their potential input in 10-15 years time to cover for Nuclear and help us reduce the coal/gas burning requirements.
Co2 emissions from Power Plants account for 37% of Scotland's total c02 emissions - we should surely be tackling base energy demand through Energy Saving Measures and transport if we're really serious about reducing Co2 emissions.
Posted by: Ross, Wemyss Bay on 3:41pm Sun 13 Jan 08
I see no one has risen to the challenge of answering my questions above. As many scientists and engineers state the Anti Nuclear lobby cannot find credible answers to the problems of inconsistent power generation from wind/wave etc.
The use of De-centralised CHP Stations would be a start, but will not be the only solution.
I see no one has risen to the challenge of answering my questions above. As many scientists and engineers state the Anti Nuclear lobby cannot find credible answers to the problems of inconsistent power generation from wind/wave etc.
The use of De-centralised CHP Stations would be a start, but will not be the only solution.
Posted by: mairi macleod, broxburn on 3:53pm Sun 13 Jan 08
hi iain, a very good article well understood,
well ofcource uk lets france walk all over itself, they must be after pay-back, a (lunch)
thanks to scotlands gov. we dont get dirty nuks.that we dont want, this is just
westminster picking more fights with SCOTLAND
else how can anyone explain that petulant outburst on alex decision not to be railroaded
childish!yes? boorish.!yes? or just not being
in CONTROL.
hi iain, a very good article well understood,
well ofcource uk lets france walk all over itself, they must be after pay-back, a (lunch)
thanks to scotlands gov. we dont get dirty nuks.that we dont want, this is just
westminster picking more fights with SCOTLAND
else how can anyone explain that petulant outburst on alex decision not to be railroaded
childish!yes? boorish.!yes? or just not being
in CONTROL.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 4:11pm Sun 13 Jan 08
Ross, Wemyss Bay on 3:41pm today
[quote]Also what do we do when the wind stops blowing?[/quote]
[italic]
Through a mix of renewable energy that relies on Hyrdro, Biomass and other non nuclear energy sources[/italic]
[quote]How much CO2 will be produced when building new coal fired power stations and establishing the carbon capture systems?[/quote]
[italic]Not as much as building a Nuclear Power Station if you include constructing decommissioning sites to receive the high level waste, shipping the fuel, enriching the fuel, transporting the spent fuel- If it was a plausible argument I'm sure the Nuclear Lobby would have came out with it a long time ago.....[/italic]
[quote]
What is the cost of building all the wind turbines, maintenance and decommissioning them at the end of their life span?[/quote]
[italic]Unknown, much like nuclear - Your focusing on Wind I can see but I'll play along - the 'decommissioning' that you mention isn't really a problem because renewable is inherently sustainable and does not pollute - i.e. we'd only need to replace the turbines to more efficient models - maintenance is relatively minimal compared to the legacy of supervision required for nuclear[ - it also something that local people can realistically be trained to do - unlike operating a nuclear plant/italic]
[quote]
What happens when the wind blows too hard?[/quote]
[italic]The majority of current model can handle winds up to around 60mph, this covers the majority of conditions - all large machinery has design parameters - see the latest 'safety shut downs' of the two nuclear plants currently in scotland....... to help cover peak demand, a full mix of renewables are required, this should include a variety of localized pwoer production through district heating and CHP - it works not unlike the internet - a large network that isn't as vulnerable as a centralized network...... in the event of a nuclear attack!!!![/italic]
[quote]Renewables are required but cannot totally replace the existing base load generation.[/quote]
[italic]Well they can is we want them too, the Scottish Government is proposing to wind (forgive the pun) nuclear and go with carbon capture/clean coal technology whilst promoting an ever increasing amount of renewable energy sources from tidal, hydro, wind, , biomass and decentralized power production in tandem with Energy Saving measures to reduce our base load demand - In fact FM Salmond has said he doesn't just want to provide our needs with renewables and non-nuclear sources but wants us to be exporting energy to the rest of the UK and in time Europe[/italic]
[quote]Just one more question, how long does it take to turn on a coal fire power station?[/quote]
Not sure but a lot quicker than turning back ona nuclear pwoer station I can confirm that - the safety procedures requried to start fuission again in a reactor is consdierable - again refer to the recent 'safety shut down's at the two scottish nuclear power stations....
[quote]Hopefully it will be instantaneous for those times the wind stops/blows too hard etc. If not we will need to burn coal to keep them running all the time (even when the renewables are generating electricity)[/quote]
[italic]Refer to my points above re: a MIX of renewables that are not dependant on just Wind Energy.... I dare say that in 10 years time the world will also have developed the use of hydrogen cells to replace natural gas, hyrdrogen could be produced busing wind energy during low demand periods for storage and reuse as a heating fuel.......[/italic]
Ross, Wemyss Bay on 3:41pm today
Also what do we do when the wind stops blowing?
Through a mix of renewable energy that relies on Hyrdro, Biomass and other non nuclear energy sources
How much CO2 will be produced when building new coal fired power stations and establishing the carbon capture systems?
Not as much as building a Nuclear Power Station if you include constructing decommissioning sites to receive the high level waste, shipping the fuel, enriching the fuel, transporting the spent fuel- If it was a plausible argument I'm sure the Nuclear Lobby would have came out with it a long time ago.....
What is the cost of building all the wind turbines, maintenance and decommissioning them at the end of their life span?
Unknown, much like nuclear - Your focusing on Wind I can see but I'll play along - the 'decommissioning' that you mention isn't really a problem because renewable is inherently sustainable and does not pollute - i.e. we'd only need to replace the turbines to more efficient models - maintenance is relatively minimal compared to the legacy of supervision required for nuclear
What happens when the wind blows too hard?
The majority of current model can handle winds up to around 60mph, this covers the majority of conditions - all large machinery has design parameters - see the latest 'safety shut downs' of the two nuclear plants currently in scotland....... to help cover peak demand, a full mix of renewables are required, this should include a variety of localized pwoer production through district heating and CHP - it works not unlike the internet - a large network that isn't as vulnerable as a centralized network...... in the event of a nuclear attack!!!!
Renewables are required but cannot totally replace the existing base load generation.
Well they can is we want them too, the Scottish Government is proposing to wind (forgive the pun) nuclear and go with carbon capture/clean coal technology whilst promoting an ever increasing amount of renewable energy sources from tidal, hydro, wind, , biomass and decentralized power production in tandem with Energy Saving measures to reduce our base load demand - In fact FM Salmond has said he doesn't just want to provide our needs with renewables and non-nuclear sources but wants us to be exporting energy to the rest of the UK and in time Europe
Just one more question, how long does it take to turn on a coal fire power station?
Not sure but a lot quicker than turning back ona nuclear pwoer station I can confirm that - the safety procedures requried to start fuission again in a reactor is consdierable - again refer to the recent 'safety shut down's at the two scottish nuclear power stations....
Hopefully it will be instantaneous for those times the wind stops/blows too hard etc. If not we will need to burn coal to keep them running all the time (even when the renewables are generating electricity)
Refer to my points above re: a MIX of renewables that are not dependant on just Wind Energy.... I dare say that in 10 years time the world will also have developed the use of hydrogen cells to replace natural gas, hyrdrogen could be produced busing wind energy during low demand periods for storage and reuse as a heating fuel.......
Posted by: eric, Inverness on 4:14pm Sun 13 Jan 08
Alan [quote]This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..[/quote] No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.
Alan
This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..
No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 4:33pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]eric[/bold] wrote:
Alan [quote]This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..[/quote] No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.[/quote] Eric, your going to have point this out for me...... the news release says that an increase is anticipated between 2005-2006 but the proposed figure quoted but that would still mean that overall drop in carbon emissions from 1990-2006 of around [bold]8.6%[/bold] (Above the UK Average o 6.4% )
Surely your not arguing that we should only consider 2005-2006 as a marker for progress on cutting Co2 emissions...... given that new Hydro, Carbon Capture and Tidal/Wind Technologies are coming on line annually.ly and that Nuclear will be providing a higher input to reduce codirty coal use over the next few years.....
eric wrote:
Alan This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..
No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.
Eric, your going to have point this out for me...... the news release says that an increase is anticipated between 2005-2006 but the proposed figure quoted but that would still mean that overall drop in carbon emissions from 1990-2006 of around
8.6% (Above the UK Average o 6.4% )
Surely your not arguing that we should only consider 2005-2006 as a marker for progress on cutting Co2 emissions...... given that new Hydro, Carbon Capture and Tidal/Wind Technologies are coming on line annually.ly and that Nuclear will be providing a higher input to reduce codirty coal use over the next few years.....
Posted by: Alan, Edinburgh on 4:35pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]eric[/bold] wrote:
Alan [quote]This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..[/quote] No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.[/quote] How would replacing nuclear if it only come son line in 10-15 years time solve this Co2 emissions issue?
eric wrote:
Alan This announcement concludes that Scotland's 'total' Co2 emissions are actually dropping and not rising as you alluded too..
No it doesn't you are just reading the spin in the first few paragraphs - read the whole news release and report back!
The reason the nuclear power stations were down was because of the neglect and non-replacement caused by over-attendance to the greenies madness of taking us back to the stone age.
How would replacing nuclear if it only come son line in 10-15 years time solve this Co2 emissions issue?
Posted by: Malcolm, Kirriemuir on 4:52pm Sun 13 Jan 08
It is an interesting debate and I can sympathise with the notion that nuclear is environmentally unacceptable - assuming the Government opposition to it is not just political opportunism. However if nuclear is unacceptable, then to propose an independent Scotland whose wealth infrastructure is predicated upon oil income is quite simple morally reprehensible ... given all the climate change evidence!
It is an interesting debate and I can sympathise with the notion that nuclear is environmentally unacceptable - assuming the Government opposition to it is not just political opportunism. However if nuclear is unacceptable, then to propose an independent Scotland whose wealth infrastructure is predicated upon oil income is quite simple morally reprehensible ... given all the climate change evidence!
Posted by: Observer on 5:02pm Sun 13 Jan 08
I am not a scientist so cannot give any meaningful insight into this, but quite simply I do not believe that Salmond, Swinney & co are stupid enough to have made this decision as a political gesture. They will have taken advice, it's what politicians do, and as they are in it for the long game, I am actually quite confident in the decision they have made, as it fits in with my own, albeit relatively uninformed, views. The Labour Party, in my opinion, are in it for the short game, they are staggering from day to day and the fact that they have opted for nuclear, privatised, and with apparently no cost, tells me everything that I need to know.
I am not a scientist so cannot give any meaningful insight into this, but quite simply I do not believe that Salmond, Swinney & co are stupid enough to have made this decision as a political gesture. They will have taken advice, it's what politicians do, and as they are in it for the long game, I am actually quite confident in the decision they have made, as it fits in with my own, albeit relatively uninformed, views. The Labour Party, in my opinion, are in it for the short game, they are staggering from day to day and the fact that they have opted for nuclear, privatised, and with apparently no cost, tells me everything that I need to know.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 5:12pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Malcolm[/bold] wrote:
It is an interesting debate and I can sympathise with the notion that nuclear is environmentally unacceptable - assuming the Government opposition to it is not just political opportunism. However if nuclear is unacceptable, then to propose an independent Scotland whose wealth infrastructure is predicated upon oil income is quite simple morally reprehensible ... given all the climate change evidence![/quote] Who says that it would be predicated on oil?
The Scottish Government is proposing to develop carbon capture and clean coal technology as a technology to replace nuclear in the interim whilst the level of renewables is increased to provide the majority of energy..
I thought Alec Salmond made a good point today stating that Scotland has a competitive advantage in developing renewable sources as we've got access to over 60% of the european wave & wind resource whilst we would have no competitive advantage going with a relaunch of nuclear energy..... going 100% renewable & non-nuclear would al put scotland in a far more economically advantageous position than going nuclear ever could...... we cam close this year but without clean coal technology and carbon capture - non-nuclear counted for 92% of Scotland's power supply, 20% of that was exported to the rest of the UK
Malcolm wrote:
It is an interesting debate and I can sympathise with the notion that nuclear is environmentally unacceptable - assuming the Government opposition to it is not just political opportunism. However if nuclear is unacceptable, then to propose an independent Scotland whose wealth infrastructure is predicated upon oil income is quite simple morally reprehensible ... given all the climate change evidence!
Who says that it would be predicated on oil?
The Scottish Government is proposing to develop carbon capture and clean coal technology as a technology to replace nuclear in the interim whilst the level of renewables is increased to provide the majority of energy..
I thought Alec Salmond made a good point today stating that Scotland has a competitive advantage in developing renewable sources as we've got access to over 60% of the european wave & wind resource whilst we would have no competitive advantage going with a relaunch of nuclear energy..... going 100% renewable & non-nuclear would al put scotland in a far more economically advantageous position than going nuclear ever could...... we cam close this year but without clean coal technology and carbon capture - non-nuclear counted for 92% of Scotland's power supply, 20% of that was exported to the rest of the UK
Posted by: eric, inverness on 5:21pm Sun 13 Jan 08
Alan As someone above has pointed out the fall in CO2 emissions from 2000-2005 was wholly as a result of Ravenscraig being closed. This didn't mean that there was less CO2 going into the air just that it was coming from China to make our steel rather than Ravenscraig.
The rise is CO2 emissions was well dealt with in the Herald article in the link given above in Warbug's post. It is a shameful record Scotland has and from 2006 and 2007 it has got even worse (based on Goverment boast last week that in 2007 our nuclear power contribution was even lower than 2006). Apart from the Herald article this is all being kept very quiet. The disaster is entirely caused by the neglect and non-replacement of of our nuclear power stations. Things are going to get very much worse unless the renewables policy is ditched.
Alan As someone above has pointed out the fall in CO2 emissions from 2000-2005 was wholly as a result of Ravenscraig being closed. This didn't mean that there was less CO2 going into the air just that it was coming from China to make our steel rather than Ravenscraig.
The rise is CO2 emissions was well dealt with in the Herald article in the link given above in Warbug's post. It is a shameful record Scotland has and from 2006 and 2007 it has got even worse (based on Goverment boast last week that in 2007 our nuclear power contribution was even lower than 2006). Apart from the Herald article this is all being kept very quiet. The disaster is entirely caused by the neglect and non-replacement of of our nuclear power stations. Things are going to get very much worse unless the renewables policy is ditched.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 5:48pm Sun 13 Jan 08
eric, inverness on 5:21pm today
[bold]Warbug[/bold] - I like it
I totally agree with you that the indecision to either renew nuclear or properly invest and promote renewables by Labour and the LibDems has led to the current mess where the coal plants are having to bail out nuclear.
The LAbour/Liberal Coalition should have had this debate over 8 years ago and went either way then - either promote clean coal & carbon capture with renewables properly or else opt for nuclear
WHAT were they waiting for?
An SNP Government by the looks of it!!!
eric, inverness on 5:21pm today
Warbug - I like it
I totally agree with you that the indecision to either renew nuclear or properly invest and promote renewables by Labour and the LibDems has led to the current mess where the coal plants are having to bail out nuclear.
The LAbour/Liberal Coalition should have had this debate over 8 years ago and went either way then - either promote clean coal & carbon capture with renewables properly or else opt for nuclear
WHAT were they waiting for?
An SNP Government by the looks of it!!!
Posted by: Timbler, Glasgow on 5:57pm Sun 13 Jan 08
Wardog, Buckie on 5:48pm today
What's even worse is the fact that the UK Government's Energy Review which the SNP's decision has been based on has waited 10 years to make this decision whilst watching the UK & Scottish nuclear plant slowly decay to a point where it's inability to function during most of 2006/2007 and then failing to invest properly in renewable and carbon capture technologies over the same period has crippled Scotland's C02 targets in 2007/2008....
A Union Dividend indeed......
Wardog, Buckie on 5:48pm today
What's even worse is the fact that the UK Government's Energy Review which the SNP's decision has been based on has waited 10 years to make this decision whilst watching the UK & Scottish nuclear plant slowly decay to a point where it's inability to function during most of 2006/2007 and then failing to invest properly in renewable and carbon capture technologies over the same period has crippled Scotland's C02 targets in 2007/2008....
A Union Dividend indeed......
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 6:06pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Timbler[/bold] wrote:
Wardog, Buckie on 5:48pm today
What's even worse is the fact that the UK Government's Energy Review which the SNP's decision has been based on has waited 10 years to make this decision whilst watching the UK & Scottish nuclear plant slowly decay to a point where it's inability to function during most of 2006/2007 and then failing to invest properly in renewable and carbon capture technologies over the same period has crippled Scotland's C02 targets in 2007/2008....
A Union Dividend indeed......[/quote] Agreed Timbler
You only need to look at Alistair Darling's handling of the Carbioon Capture Plant at Peterhead up in my neck of the woods and the dithering on whether to fund tidal technologies to see the priority that the UK Government has given to renewables and non-nuclear sector.
Luckily enough, it looks like the carbon capture plant in Peterhead may well go ahead this year, I posted a link earlier to a local paper explaining that BP have reignited the prospect by teaming up with Rio.
I would note also that Scottish Power are in teh process of upgrading their coal powered stations in Scotland to 'clean-coal' - this substantially reduces co2 emissions by 2009/2010 and if used in tandem with carbon capture could eradicate co2 emissions altogether by 2012.... whilst reopening coal pits in scotlan along the way providing new employment and affordable secure energy.... a few birds with one 'stone'....
Add this to a series of new small scale hydro schemes in the offing and the larger glendoe hydro scheme, and plans for largescale atlantic offshore windfarms and tidal technology coming of age.......
I'd say that 2008 will be good year for renewables and non-nuclear.....
Timbler wrote:
Wardog, Buckie on 5:48pm today
What's even worse is the fact that the UK Government's Energy Review which the SNP's decision has been based on has waited 10 years to make this decision whilst watching the UK & Scottish nuclear plant slowly decay to a point where it's inability to function during most of 2006/2007 and then failing to invest properly in renewable and carbon capture technologies over the same period has crippled Scotland's C02 targets in 2007/2008....
A Union Dividend indeed......
Agreed Timbler
You only need to look at Alistair Darling's handling of the Carbioon Capture Plant at Peterhead up in my neck of the woods and the dithering on whether to fund tidal technologies to see the priority that the UK Government has given to renewables and non-nuclear sector.
Luckily enough, it looks like the carbon capture plant in Peterhead may well go ahead this year, I posted a link earlier to a local paper explaining that BP have reignited the prospect by teaming up with Rio.
I would note also that Scottish Power are in teh process of upgrading their coal powered stations in Scotland to 'clean-coal' - this substantially reduces co2 emissions by 2009/2010 and if used in tandem with carbon capture could eradicate co2 emissions altogether by 2012.... whilst reopening coal pits in scotlan along the way providing new employment and affordable secure energy.... a few birds with one 'stone'....
Add this to a series of new small scale hydro schemes in the offing and the larger glendoe hydro scheme, and plans for largescale atlantic offshore windfarms and tidal technology coming of age.......
I'd say that 2008 will be good year for renewables and non-nuclear.....
Posted by: Ross, Wemyss Bay on 6:11pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
Ross, Wemyss Bay on 3:41pm today [quote]Also what do we do when the wind stops blowing?[/quote] [italic] Through a mix of renewable energy that relies on Hyrdro, Biomass and other non nuclear energy sources[/italic] [quote]How much CO2 will b