Doctors’ allergy to vitamins Joanna Blythman
on an adverse reaction DEATH BY VITAMINS!!! AS one of the fifth of the population using complementary medicine, I should surely be worried by the apparently sound scientific review purporting to show that vitamin supplements are a waste of time and could even shorten life. Somehow I can't get my knickers in a twist about this latest revelation. Exposés of the dangers lurking in the healthfood shop and on the complementary medicine shelves at Boots come round more regularly than Christmas.
Oh, how the most narrow-minded conventional medics love to hammer anyone or anything that suggests that not every solution to every medical condition is to be found in pharmaceutical-based allopathic medicine. You'd think they'd be delighted that people like me take an active rather than a passive "Cure me doc, I'm sick" attitude towards their health.
Instead of clogging up their surgeries, we take to bed with a hot toddy and vitamin C, echinacea, and zinc. Surely to be encouraged? But while the more enlightened orthodox medics can see that some tried and tested complementary remedies can play a role in healing, many more are threatened by alternative approaches, even the humble vitamin, and relish any opportunity to bash them.
Let's get the risks in proportion here. It's pretty hard, well-nigh impossible even, to commit suicide in a healthfood shop. Even supposing I went in there and binged on every multivitamin and herb I could lay my hands on - supposing I could actually swallow enough of these daunting, horse-sized capsules in the first place - the worst outcome would be projectile vomiting. Yet I never fail to be amazed how the knockers of complementary medicine seem inured to the not inconsiderable risks attached to pharmaceutical drugs.
The thinktank Compass recently quantified these. Latest annual figures showed 1,040,000 people in the UK admitted to hospital because of side- effects of prescription drugs, a staggering 6.5% of all admissions. Adverse reactions cost the the country £2 billion a year: that's enough to eliminate MRSA from all our hospitals.
What sort of piffling reactions are we talking about? Certain conventional anti-depressants, for instance, leave some young people suicidal when they were only moderately depressed to start with. Whereas good old St John's Wort, now a fairly mainstream herb dispensed in Germany, perks you up better, at no risk, unless you mix it with conventional drugs. And why should all those surprisingly supple senior citizens who find supplements such as MSM and glucosamine palpably effective in warding off creaky joints use conventional anti-arthitis medicine instead, after all the fuss over Vioxx, the arthritis painkiller now established to have caused heart attacks?
This week's anti-vitamin headlines are based on a review by one particular group of researchers, effectively a rehash of their paper published last year in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Faced with a
substantial number of studies reporting positive results for antioxidant vitamins, they first excluded more than 400 trials that had no deaths, then decided which trials they liked (those with a low risk bias) and did not like (those with a high risk bias).
According to one leading expert in this field, Dr Balz Frei, it is "a flawed analysis of flawed data, and it does little to help us understand the real health effects of antioxidants, whether beneficial or otherwise". (For a detailed critique of the methodology of this study see
www.patrickholford.com, "How antioxidant researchers cooked the books".)
Yes, yes, I know, the comforting
wisdom doled out by government health gurus is that we don't need
supplements if we eat well. That might be persuasive, were it not that the
concept of recommended daily amounts (RDAs) for vitamins and minerals was devised during the second world war to prevent deficiency
diseases such as scurvy. RDAs are not to be confused with an optimum intake, which could be significantly higher. And can we lay to rest the stereotype, put about by mainstream health authorities, that consumers of supplements use them as a substitute for a healthy diet? In my experience, it's precisely the dedicated healthy eaters who also take supplements.
Bear in mind that nitrogenous fertilisers and intensive food production methods have reduced vitamin and micronutrient levels in the food we eat. Our apples aren't as nutritious as they were in the 1950s, say. It is undisputed, for example, that British soil has insufficient levels of selenium, the immune system booster, to promote health. Also, environmental pollution now exposes us to many more toxins than humans encountered even half a century ago, so it's a thought worth considering that we might need higher levels of antioxidants to fight them than our diets can provide.
Rather than rubbishing supplements, medics with an enlightened, open attitude to promoting public health should accept that complementary medicine is here to stay, and encourage research that helps us understand better how it can work. Yet they experience a collective acute adverse reaction, even to users of vitamin C. That's their hang-up and they need to get over it.
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Posted by: JC on 12:29am Sun 20 Apr 08
Once again don't bother researching an article- Recent evidence has shown that taking LARGE doses of SOME vitamins may be positively harmful. This is something to be aware of. It is not an attack on complementary medicine.
"Even supposing I went in there and binged on every multivitamin and herb I could lay my hands on - supposing I could actually swallow enough of these daunting, horse-sized capsules in the first place - the worst outcome would be projectile vomiting."
I strongly suggest that the newspaper issues a clarification of this statement.
Unfortunately just as conventional medicines can be harmful ,so can some complementary medicines, they can also interact with prescription medicines or cause organ damage. So it is not the case to imply that they are harmless.
Once again don't bother researching an article- Recent evidence has shown that taking LARGE doses of SOME vitamins may be positively harmful. This is something to be aware of. It is not an attack on complementary medicine.
"Even supposing I went in there and binged on every multivitamin and herb I could lay my hands on - supposing I could actually swallow enough of these daunting, horse-sized capsules in the first place - the worst outcome would be projectile vomiting."
I strongly suggest that the newspaper issues a clarification of this statement.
Unfortunately just as conventional medicines can be harmful ,so can some complementary medicines, they can also interact with prescription medicines or cause organ damage. So it is not the case to imply that they are harmless.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 10:14am Sun 20 Apr 08
ACCORDING TO THE HEADLINE, IT IS ONLY DOCTORS THAT ARE ALLERGIC TO VITAMINS, NOT VITAMIN TABLETS. SALMOND IS CLEARLY TO BLAME. BENDY IS INNOCENT.
ACCORDING TO THE HEADLINE, IT IS ONLY DOCTORS THAT ARE ALLERGIC TO VITAMINS, NOT VITAMIN TABLETS. SALMOND IS CLEARLY TO BLAME. BENDY IS INNOCENT.
Posted by: Aileen Orr, Berwickshire on 10:39am Sun 20 Apr 08
So glad to read your article on vitamins. I visited Complementary clinic in Musselburgh who diagnosed me pretty quickly from the chronic condition I was suffering. The combination of vitamins and minerals were of huge benefit, as well as their responsible suggestions. The cost of the treatment was less than the prescriptions I was forking out for. The plain truth was, the number of prescribed anti biotics I was talking were almost killing me.
So glad to read your article on vitamins. I visited Complementary clinic in Musselburgh who diagnosed me pretty quickly from the chronic condition I was suffering. The combination of vitamins and minerals were of huge benefit, as well as their responsible suggestions. The cost of the treatment was less than the prescriptions I was forking out for. The plain truth was, the number of prescribed anti biotics I was talking were almost killing me.
Posted by: Mick, Oxford on 1:17pm Sun 20 Apr 08
This writer of this article is fairly badly-informed. For example, hypericin (the active ingredient in St Johns Wort) can, as well as affecting metabolism of other drugs, cause extreme photosensitivity. Perhaps not something we need to worry about too much in the UK (due to a lack of sun!!!) but it highlights that not everything you buy from a healthfood shop is necessarily harmless and good for you en masse.
This writer of this article is fairly badly-informed. For example, hypericin (the active ingredient in St Johns Wort) can, as well as affecting metabolism of other drugs, cause extreme photosensitivity. Perhaps not something we need to worry about too much in the UK (due to a lack of sun!!!) but it highlights that not everything you buy from a healthfood shop is necessarily harmless and good for you en masse.
Posted by: Doug Blaney, Glasgow on 1:39pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Sometimes it does not take a lot of vitamins and minerals to cause problems. On holiday in 1995 to Hawaii ,(OOOOOOOH)I was convinced by a guy there to take vitamin C with iron. I thought it would cause no harm. after taking them for 2 1/2 weeks I go severe pain in my back. I went to a clinic in Honolulu (they asked for my credit card!) I then was allowed to see the doctor, who organised an chest xray, blood and urine samples. When these were finished, he said I had pneumonia, I told him thatI have chronic bronchiectasis and that I did not have pneumonia, so it must be something else, I told him that I had started to take vitaminc and iron since arriving there, he ignored that. He insisted that I had pneumonia and gave me antibiotics.
When I got home, I went to see my local GP in Shettleston HC. I told him about the docs opinion in Hawaii and that I had been taking vitamin c and iron tablets. The iron in the tablets were causing problems in my kidneys. Within a few days I was ok, however every so often I have to get cysts in my kidneys aspirated. its like everything in life, what medicines are good for one person may not be good for another.
Sometimes it does not take a lot of vitamins and minerals to cause problems. On holiday in 1995 to Hawaii ,(OOOOOOOH)I was convinced by a guy there to take vitamin C with iron. I thought it would cause no harm. after taking them for 2 1/2 weeks I go severe pain in my back. I went to a clinic in Honolulu (they asked for my credit card!) I then was allowed to see the doctor, who organised an chest xray, blood and urine samples. When these were finished, he said I had pneumonia, I told him thatI have chronic bronchiectasis and that I did not have pneumonia, so it must be something else, I told him that I had started to take vitaminc and iron since arriving there, he ignored that. He insisted that I had pneumonia and gave me antibiotics.
When I got home, I went to see my local GP in Shettleston HC. I told him about the docs opinion in Hawaii and that I had been taking vitamin c and iron tablets. The iron in the tablets were causing problems in my kidneys. Within a few days I was ok, however every so often I have to get cysts in my kidneys aspirated. its like everything in life, what medicines are good for one person may not be good for another.
Posted by: Findlay, Lanark on 5:38pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Try the Alliance for Natural Health website. www.alliance-natural
-health.org
It provides a lot if information as to how the pharmaceutical companies, in cahoots with NHS and the EU, are trying to remove our access to natural health products. Why? well, you don't make a profit when people are well, especially if they get well by taking natural products. I have personally found these natural products and vitamins to be beneficial. Some people will react oddly to some items, as is the case with any medicines but not so many as react to expensive pharmaceutical products. Iatrogenic causes (drug reactions and hospital and related matters such as MRSA) are considered to be the 4th largest cause of death in USA. They won't tell you that here.
Try the Alliance for Natural Health website. www.alliance-natural
-health.org
It provides a lot if information as to how the pharmaceutical companies, in cahoots with NHS and the EU, are trying to remove our access to natural health products. Why? well, you don't make a profit when people are well, especially if they get well by taking natural products. I have personally found these natural products and vitamins to be beneficial. Some people will react oddly to some items, as is the case with any medicines but not so many as react to expensive pharmaceutical products. Iatrogenic causes (drug reactions and hospital and related matters such as MRSA) are considered to be the 4th largest cause of death in USA. They won't tell you that here.
Posted by: R. Elder, South Africa on 6:41pm Sun 20 Apr 08
For a really informatibve view of what the vitamin and supplement industry is capable of, have a look at the situation in South Africa. mathius rath advertises that his products can cure HIV/Aids, and has bribed one of NGOs into persuading people of anti-retrovirals and on to his snake oil. Our Health Minister, the kleptomaniac and alcoholic Manto Tshabala-msimang, has refused to act against rath, and is being faced with a court action from, amonst others, the Treatment Action Campaign.
To be fair, Manto also proposes beetroot, garlic, and the African potato as cures. She could have added steering clear of Jacob Zuma, who will willing shag anything with a pulse, whether or not HIV positive - but who is careful to take a shower afterwards as a preventative.
For a really informatibve view of what the vitamin and supplement industry is capable of, have a look at the situation in South Africa. mathius rath advertises that his products can cure HIV/Aids, and has bribed one of NGOs into persuading people of anti-retrovirals and on to his snake oil. Our Health Minister, the kleptomaniac and alcoholic Manto Tshabala-msimang, has refused to act against rath, and is being faced with a court action from, amonst others, the Treatment Action Campaign.
To be fair, Manto also proposes beetroot, garlic, and the African potato as cures. She could have added steering clear of Jacob Zuma, who will willing shag anything with a pulse, whether or not HIV positive - but who is careful to take a shower afterwards as a preventative.
Posted by: zeno, www.thinkhumanism.co on 9:50pm Sun 20 Apr 08
If you think 'alternative' or 'complementary' medicines/therapies are safe or effective and/or that all conventional medicines are harmful, get a dose of reality and read Rose Shapiro's book [italic]Suckers: How Alternative Medicine Makes Fools of Us All[/italic] (http://tinyurl.com/
5d93bn)
If you think 'alternative' or 'complementary' medicines/therapies are safe or effective and/or that all conventional medicines are harmful, get a dose of reality and read Rose Shapiro's book
Suckers: How Alternative Medicine Makes Fools of Us All (http://tinyurl.com/
5d93bn)
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:03am Mon 21 Apr 08
I'm not sure when I read a more ignorant or poorly-informed piece of journalism.
First, the use of the word "allopathic". Joanna, you ought to be aware that this is an insult. It is a term coined by Samuel Hahnemann, the inventor of homoeopathy, to refer to the conventional medicine of his time. He intended it then as an insult, and its use today is invariably insulting, used by proponents of "alternative" medicine as a way of sneering at something they don't understand. Are "conventional" or "orthodox" or even "evidence-based" medicine such difficult terms to type that you have to resort to a 200-year-old insult?
The truth is that medicine is, above all else, pragmatic. And eclectic. If something works, it becomes medicine. If it doesn't, it remains alternative. An alternative [italic]to[/italic] medicine.
Now, about that idea that "vitamins" are somehow "alternative"? Where did you get that idea, Joanna? Vitamins are a fundamental part of mainstream medicine and nutrition. However, genuine vitamin deficiencies are rare in the developes western world, and so the field has been hijacked by all sorts of cranks trying to sell snake oil. You get scurvy, or pernicious anaemia, and see how "alternative" vitamin treatment is!
Then again, we have the idea that anything "natural" is safe. Really? Botulinum toxin is natural. Deadly nightshade is natural. Ebola virus is natural.
And the even dafter idea that anything "natural" is self-evidently a cure for disease, without any requirement for actual evidence? God give me strength.
Selenium is an "immune system booster"? Really? What on earth does "boosting the immune system" mean? Total gobbledegook. But if it were possible - beware! Many of the most serious diseases are due to an [italic]over[/italic]-active immune system. If these claims were true, I'd be concerned about causing systemic lupus or goodness knows what.
And these terrible fertilisers are making food "less nutritious". Shades of the organic misinformation again. None of this stuff is "indisputed" at all. It's a pack of unscientific, counter-scientific, magical thinking nonsense.
I'm not sure when I read a more ignorant or poorly-informed piece of journalism.
First, the use of the word "allopathic". Joanna, you ought to be aware that this is an insult. It is a term coined by Samuel Hahnemann, the inventor of homoeopathy, to refer to the conventional medicine of his time. He intended it then as an insult, and its use today is invariably insulting, used by proponents of "alternative" medicine as a way of sneering at something they don't understand. Are "conventional" or "orthodox" or even "evidence-based" medicine such difficult terms to type that you have to resort to a 200-year-old insult?
The truth is that medicine is, above all else, pragmatic. And eclectic. If something works, it becomes medicine. If it doesn't, it remains alternative. An alternative
to medicine.
Now, about that idea that "vitamins" are somehow "alternative"? Where did you get that idea, Joanna? Vitamins are a fundamental part of mainstream medicine and nutrition. However, genuine vitamin deficiencies are rare in the developes western world, and so the field has been hijacked by all sorts of cranks trying to sell snake oil. You get scurvy, or pernicious anaemia, and see how "alternative" vitamin treatment is!
Then again, we have the idea that anything "natural" is safe. Really? Botulinum toxin is natural. Deadly nightshade is natural. Ebola virus is natural.
And the even dafter idea that anything "natural" is self-evidently a cure for disease, without any requirement for actual evidence? God give me strength.
Selenium is an "immune system booster"? Really? What on earth does "boosting the immune system" mean? Total gobbledegook. But if it were possible - beware! Many of the most serious diseases are due to an
over-active immune system. If these claims were true, I'd be concerned about causing systemic lupus or goodness knows what.
And these terrible fertilisers are making food "less nutritious". Shades of the organic misinformation again. None of this stuff is "indisputed" at all. It's a pack of unscientific, counter-scientific, magical thinking nonsense.
Posted by: RG, Scotland on 11:37am Mon 21 Apr 08
Couldn't agree with you more, Morag.
When Miss Blythman strays from her role as a food critic, she displays her complete ignorance and laziness as a journalist.
Why the Herald let her get away with such poorly researched misinformation is beyond me.
Couldn't agree with you more, Morag.
When Miss Blythman strays from her role as a food critic, she displays her complete ignorance and laziness as a journalist.
Why the Herald let her get away with such poorly researched misinformation is beyond me.
Posted by: MAX!, London on 1:48pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Morag and RG- because an article does not fall into place with your personal opinion does not make it poorly researched or lazy.
This is an OPINION piece not a news article. If you are not intelligent enough to undestand that I doubt you can be trusted to know about anything much certainly not vitamins/ conventional medecine.
And RG- because a woman knows about food does not mean she does not know about anything else. Like many others who leave these comments you fail to come up with clever criticisms and simply fall back on your old sexist "she's a food writer hahahaha" digs.
Get a life and a brain.
Morag and RG- because an article does not fall into place with your personal opinion does not make it poorly researched or lazy.
This is an OPINION piece not a news article. If you are not intelligent enough to undestand that I doubt you can be trusted to know about anything much certainly not vitamins/ conventional medecine.
And RG- because a woman knows about food does not mean she does not know about anything else. Like many others who leave these comments you fail to come up with clever criticisms and simply fall back on your old sexist "she's a food writer hahahaha" digs.
Get a life and a brain.
Posted by: pofaced, Edinburgh (your capital) on 2:13pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Well said MAX, the article is actually reasonably well researched. Well at least as well as the report in question was (a rehash of last years JAMA drivel.
I always wonder about the validity of someones argument when they resort to belittling the person with an opposing view.
I note that you can now get fish oil pills on prescription in the US (for a shade under ten times the price of a commercially available identical version).
I would wager if we allowed the big Pharma's to patent vitamins their would suddenly be research that showed how immensely beneficial they were.
Morag, to clarify, this study was not for natural products at all but for synthetic vitamins, natural ones where specifically excluded.
Well said MAX, the article is actually reasonably well researched. Well at least as well as the report in question was (a rehash of last years JAMA drivel.
I always wonder about the validity of someones argument when they resort to belittling the person with an opposing view.
I note that you can now get fish oil pills on prescription in the US (for a shade under ten times the price of a commercially available identical version).
I would wager if we allowed the big Pharma's to patent vitamins their would suddenly be research that showed how immensely beneficial they were.
Morag, to clarify, this study was not for natural products at all but for synthetic vitamins, natural ones where specifically excluded.
Posted by: Niall A, edinburgh on 4:58pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Some serious misunderstanding of the processes of systematic review and meta-analysis in this article, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem, except that it appears in a national newspaper. Also, is it possible that Patrick Holford may have a conflict of interest here, given that he makes money from the sale of vitamin supplements? Wouldn't journalists normally weigh that up when considering how reliable his contributions have been?
Some serious misunderstanding of the processes of systematic review and meta-analysis in this article, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem, except that it appears in a national newspaper. Also, is it possible that Patrick Holford may have a conflict of interest here, given that he makes money from the sale of vitamin supplements? Wouldn't journalists normally weigh that up when considering how reliable his contributions have been?
Posted by: norma butler, BLAIRGOWRIE on 10:26pm Mon 21 Apr 08
The fifth paragaraph in the article "On an Adverse Reaction" dealt briefly with conventional drugs. As one person who is among the unnumbered sufferers who never reached hospital, a grievance persists. Two GP's ignored my predictions and thus a life threatening situation arose. Complaints to the Health Board, SPSO and the GMC have all proved unsaatifactory as far as redress is concerned.
The fifth paragaraph in the article "On an Adverse Reaction" dealt briefly with conventional drugs. As one person who is among the unnumbered sufferers who never reached hospital, a grievance persists. Two GP's ignored my predictions and thus a life threatening situation arose. Complaints to the Health Board, SPSO and the GMC have all proved unsaatifactory as far as redress is concerned.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 2:18am Tue 22 Apr 08
One of the standard ploys of the "alternative" camp is to highlight deficiencies in conventional medicine. This is pure misdirection. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Of course things go wrong in conventional medicine. Nobody and no system is perfect. However, at least conventional medicine tries its damnedest to avoid trouble, and to put things right. Witness the reporting system for possible adverse reactions to drugs. This is mandatory, so that we find out about even the most uncommon bad reactions. It is accessing this information that gives the alternative critics most of their ammunition.
In contrast, where is the reporting system for bad reactions to alternative medicine? There isn't one. Practitioners don't do any toxicity studies themselves, nor do they report bad reactions to any central body. The job of looking at possible toxicity falls on the shoulders of conventional researchers, who then become the "Big Pharma" whipping boys for all the quacks who see their easy fat profits threatened.
Natural does not mean safe. Natural does not mean effective. All medicines for which therapeutic claims are made should have to prove both reasonable efficacy and reasonable safety before being sold.
Conventional medicines have to do this. Some bad reactions and bad outcomes still happen.
How does pointing these out in any way strengthen the case for "alternative" remedies to carry on without any responsibility or accountability?
Oh, and Max, yes this was an opinion piece. Why should this woman's ignorant and bigoted opinion be given such publicity, and why should she be paid for her ignorance?
Pofaced, yes the study was on synthetic vitamins. This didn't stop Joanna launching into a defence of vitamin supplements as part of "complementary" "alternative" "natural" medicine. She has profoundly misunderstood what the entire publication was about. Selenium is toxic. Vitamin A is toxic. This is standard third year undergraduate stuff.
Only someone with no thought but profit would promote excess vitamins and minerals as a healthy approach. Patrick Holford maybe? And yet Joanna cites his web site without any mention of his agenda to sell his "alternative" nostrums. If anyone is worried about "Big Pharma", perhaps they ought to look up what sort of profits are being turned in by the producers of the supplements and alternatives and homoeopathic sugar pills. With low production costs (because the products are simple - nothing is simpler than a sugar pill after all), no research or testing budgets, and virtually no risk of being sued (because of the lack of adverse event reporting) the profits are eye-watering.
That's the real scandal that needs investigating.
One of the standard ploys of the "alternative" camp is to highlight deficiencies in conventional medicine. This is pure misdirection. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Of course things go wrong in conventional medicine. Nobody and no system is perfect. However, at least conventional medicine tries its damnedest to avoid trouble, and to put things right. Witness the reporting system for possible adverse reactions to drugs. This is mandatory, so that we find out about even the most uncommon bad reactions. It is accessing this information that gives the alternative critics most of their ammunition.
In contrast, where is the reporting system for bad reactions to alternative medicine? There isn't one. Practitioners don't do any toxicity studies themselves, nor do they report bad reactions to any central body. The job of looking at possible toxicity falls on the shoulders of conventional researchers, who then become the "Big Pharma" whipping boys for all the quacks who see their easy fat profits threatened.
Natural does not mean safe. Natural does not mean effective. All medicines for which therapeutic claims are made should have to prove both reasonable efficacy and reasonable safety before being sold.
Conventional medicines have to do this. Some bad reactions and bad outcomes still happen.
How does pointing these out in any way strengthen the case for "alternative" remedies to carry on without any responsibility or accountability?
Oh, and Max, yes this was an opinion piece. Why should this woman's ignorant and bigoted opinion be given such publicity, and why should she be paid for her ignorance?
Pofaced, yes the study was on synthetic vitamins. This didn't stop Joanna launching into a defence of vitamin supplements as part of "complementary" "alternative" "natural" medicine. She has profoundly misunderstood what the entire publication was about. Selenium is toxic. Vitamin A is toxic. This is standard third year undergraduate stuff.
Only someone with no thought but profit would promote excess vitamins and minerals as a healthy approach. Patrick Holford maybe? And yet Joanna cites his web site without any mention of his agenda to sell his "alternative" nostrums. If anyone is worried about "Big Pharma", perhaps they ought to look up what sort of profits are being turned in by the producers of the supplements and alternatives and homoeopathic sugar pills. With low production costs (because the products are simple - nothing is simpler than a sugar pill after all), no research or testing budgets, and virtually no risk of being sued (because of the lack of adverse event reporting) the profits are eye-watering.
That's the real scandal that needs investigating.
Posted by: MAX!, London on 10:09am Tue 22 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote:
One of the standard ploys of the \"alternative\" camp is to highlight deficiencies in conventional medicine. This is pure misdirection. Two wrongs don\'t make a right. Of course things go wrong in conventional medicine. Nobody and no system is perfect. However, at least conventional medicine tries its damnedest to avoid trouble, and to put things right. Witness the reporting system for possible adverse reactions to drugs. This is mandatory, so that we find out about even the most uncommon bad reactions. It is accessing this information that gives the alternative critics most of their ammunition. In contrast, where is the reporting system for bad reactions to alternative medicine? There isn\'t one. Practitioners don\'t do any toxicity studies themselves, nor do they report bad reactions to any central body. The job of looking at possible toxicity falls on the shoulders of conventional researchers, who then become the \"Big Pharma\" whipping boys for all the quacks who see their easy fat profits threatened. Natural does not mean safe. Natural does not mean effective. All medicines for which therapeutic claims are made should have to prove both reasonable efficacy and reasonable safety before being sold. Conventional medicines have to do this. Some bad reactions and bad outcomes still happen. How does pointing these out in any way strengthen the case for \"alternative\" remedies to carry on without any responsibility or accountability? Oh, and Max, yes this was an opinion piece. Why should this woman\'s ignorant and bigoted opinion be given such publicity, and why should she be paid for her ignorance? Pofaced, yes the study was on synthetic vitamins. This didn\'t stop Joanna launching into a defence of vitamin supplements as part of \"complementary\" \"alternative\" \"natural\" medicine. She has profoundly misunderstood what the entire publication was about. Selenium is toxic. Vitamin A is toxic. This is standard third year undergraduate stuff. Only someone with no thought but profit would promote excess vitamins and minerals as a healthy approach. Patrick Holford maybe? And yet Joanna cites his web site without any mention of his agenda to sell his \"alternative\" nostrums. If anyone is worried about \"Big Pharma\", perhaps they ought to look up what sort of profits are being turned in by the producers of the supplements and alternatives and homoeopathic sugar pills. With low production costs (because the products are simple - nothing is simpler than a sugar pill after all), no research or testing budgets, and virtually no risk of being sued (because of the lack of adverse event reporting) the profits are eye-watering. That\'s the real scandal that needs investigating. [/quote] Morag- im glad no one pays YOU to write your opinion as it is as ignorant and bigoted as possible.
Morag wrote:
One of the standard ploys of the \"alternative\" camp is to highlight deficiencies in conventional medicine. This is pure misdirection. Two wrongs don\'t make a right. Of course things go wrong in conventional medicine. Nobody and no system is perfect. However, at least conventional medicine tries its damnedest to avoid trouble, and to put things right. Witness the reporting system for possible adverse reactions to drugs. This is mandatory, so that we find out about even the most uncommon bad reactions. It is accessing this information that gives the alternative critics most of their ammunition. In contrast, where is the reporting system for bad reactions to alternative medicine? There isn\'t one. Practitioners don\'t do any toxicity studies themselves, nor do they report bad reactions to any central body. The job of looking at possible toxicity falls on the shoulders of conventional researchers, who then become the \"Big Pharma\" whipping boys for all the quacks who see their easy fat profits threatened. Natural does not mean safe. Natural does not mean effective. All medicines for which therapeutic claims are made should have to prove both reasonable efficacy and reasonable safety before being sold. Conventional medicines have to do this. Some bad reactions and bad outcomes still happen. How does pointing these out in any way strengthen the case for \"alternative\" remedies to carry on without any responsibility or accountability? Oh, and Max, yes this was an opinion piece. Why should this woman\'s ignorant and bigoted opinion be given such publicity, and why should she be paid for her ignorance? Pofaced, yes the study was on synthetic vitamins. This didn\'t stop Joanna launching into a defence of vitamin supplements as part of \"complementary\" \"alternative\" \"natural\" medicine. She has profoundly misunderstood what the entire publication was about. Selenium is toxic. Vitamin A is toxic. This is standard third year undergraduate stuff. Only someone with no thought but profit would promote excess vitamins and minerals as a healthy approach. Patrick Holford maybe? And yet Joanna cites his web site without any mention of his agenda to sell his \"alternative\" nostrums. If anyone is worried about \"Big Pharma\", perhaps they ought to look up what sort of profits are being turned in by the producers of the supplements and alternatives and homoeopathic sugar pills. With low production costs (because the products are simple - nothing is simpler than a sugar pill after all), no research or testing budgets, and virtually no risk of being sued (because of the lack of adverse event reporting) the profits are eye-watering. That\'s the real scandal that needs investigating.
Morag- im glad no one pays YOU to write your opinion as it is as ignorant and bigoted as possible.
Posted by: Annabelle, Aberdeen on 10:10am Tue 22 Apr 08
I'll go along with those people who suggested that this was indeed a very poorly researched article, regardless of opinion. For starters I don't think that when vitamins and other supplements are deemed dangerous it is necessarily out of concerns for overdose but also for the risk of someone actually needing treatment and being falsely treated with vitamins thereby ignoring an illness. The other thing I would like to mention to Ms Blytman is that Patrick Holford is a dangerous man who has more than a vested interest in promoting the merits of vitamins and supplements as he is one of the big manufacturers of these. And he is gone as far as saying that vitamin C is more effective than AZT against HIV. Need I say more? So to quote him so we can all see for ourselves how a methodology may be flawed...
I'll go along with those people who suggested that this was indeed a very poorly researched article, regardless of opinion. For starters I don't think that when vitamins and other supplements are deemed dangerous it is necessarily out of concerns for overdose but also for the risk of someone actually needing treatment and being falsely treated with vitamins thereby ignoring an illness. The other thing I would like to mention to Ms Blytman is that Patrick Holford is a dangerous man who has more than a vested interest in promoting the merits of vitamins and supplements as he is one of the big manufacturers of these. And he is gone as far as saying that vitamin C is more effective than AZT against HIV. Need I say more? So to quote him so we can all see for ourselves how a methodology may be flawed...