In these taxing times, Brown is getting desperate Iain Macwhirter
on the economy THOSE WHOM the gods wish to destroy they first make finance ministers. Last week, the chancellor, Alistair Darling, announced that the latest cunning plan for the economy was to bung £120 to basic-rate taxpayers. The purpose, he said, was to boost the economy by putting our money, £2.7 billion of it, back in our pockets - oh, and to compensate for ditching the 10p tax band along the way.
Gordon Brown called it a "welcome fiscal stimulus" at a time of financial difficulty for hard-working British families. And what a brilliant idea! Why had no one thought of it before? If consumer demand is failing because times are tough, why not just give people more money? Problem solved.
Except this giveaway economics doesn't seem to extend to public-sector workers who are being told to accept a pay settlement lower than the rate of inflation. Surely, this is inconsistent, since this pay cut for millions of state employees will depress their buying power by almost the equivalent of the chancellor's tax handout? Giving with one hand to take away with another doesn't make a lot of economic sense.
You might ask why the chancellor isn't giving everyone a fiscal stimulus. Following Darling's logic, if the government just gave everyone a 20% pay increase there would be no economic slowdown at all. Well, not until the public finances cracked under the strain of double-digit inflation, fiscal deficits and a run on the pound. What the heck, it's probably going to happen anyway, because the government is printing money faster than at any time since the 1970s. The results will be similar.
Like most improvised policies, the £2.7bn tax handout was a sign of desperation: a political bribe by a PM who has lost authority and a government running scared of a by-election defeat. The government has simply stopped making sense. Ministers still insist that, thanks to their prudent stewardship, the "economic fundamentals" are strong. Except they aren't: inflation is up, unemployment is up, the cost of living is up, the pound is down, construction of new private housing is down, house prices are down etc.
And the government is all over the place. The housing minister, Caroline Flint, inadvertently revealed in her see-through Cabinet brief last week that the government's forecasts predict a fall of up to 10% in house prices this year, possibly more. Now this should, by the government's logic, be a good thing. One of the themes of Brown's premiership was supposed to be affordable housing. If housing is going to become affordable, prices must fall. So why not hail this remarkable achievement?
Well, because the government is as obsessed by house prices as Cherie Blair and just as fearful of them falling. So anxious are ministers that they are trying to lure first-time buyers into a falling market by offering subsidies when they should be doing the opposite. Ms Flint should be warning young families NOT to take on massive loans they probably can't afford when prices are expected to fall. First-timers risk being in negative equity within 12 months, making the government party to a mis-selling scandal comparable to subprime lending.
Of course it is difficult for this government to adjust to the new reality. The economy has turned from nice to nasty in record time - too fast for the political cycle to catch up. But it cannot afford to be in denial. The trouble is that Gordon Brown still believes he is a master of the universe. In the boom years, he was celebrated as the greatest chancellor in over a century; a miracle worker who could defy shocks like the dotcom crash and deliver year-on-year growth indefinitely. In reality, he was - like the banks - riding an irresponsible and unsustainable housing and credit bubble.
New Labour revealed itself as the bankers' new best friend. Brown gave them "light-touch" regulation, which basically meant turning London into a global Liechtenstein. Property prices entered the stratosphere, fuelled by City bonuses - ably assisted by Cherie Blair and other Labour plutocrats who saw personal enrichment as the new socialism. Brown's single defining act was to "liberate" the Bank of England, making it immune from political guidance or interference on interest rates. It was the definitive hands-off gesture - Labour laissez-faire.
So, Gordon probably thought his banking friends owed him a few favours. That if things got difficult they would stand by him; not let a liquidity shortage lead to a mortgage famine; keep the economy going by keeping interest rates low and passing any reductions on to home-buyers. How wrong he was. Bankers are unsentimental creatures who don't do favours and care little about the welfare of politicians. Four weeks ago Brown gave them £50bn of our money on the understanding this would free up lending and bring down mortgage rates. Instead, they put them up.
Last week Mervyn King, governor of the Bank of England, shot a bolt through Brown's heart by delivering the grimmest assessment of Britain's economic prospects since the ERM debacle 16 years ago. He suggested interest rates would not be cut until 2010, that a housing correction was under way and should not be interfered with, that the British economy was probably going into recession - or as he put it "the odd quarter or two of negative growth"(which just happens to be the definition of recession).
This bald assessment of the economy shocked Number 10 and the entire Labour Party. It was the economic defeatism that hurt most. Most Labour MPs assumed a deal had been struck during the boom years that, if house prices fell, the bank would cut interest rates and all would be well. Not any more. There is now complete confusion in government; they just don't know what to do next.
This has been a hard lesson. The banks are in flight from risk, willing to take any handouts from government, on the strict understanding it won't make a blind bit of difference. They are acting to save themselves from the consequences of their own folly, leaving the government floundering like over-extended homeowners. But there are no two-year fixes available to keep this government from repossession.
It could soon be black bin bag time in Number 10. But I suspect Gordon, like his predecessor, is already considering a lucrative sinecure in one of the big banks that will cushion the blow of his political retirement.
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Posted by: Chris Cook on 8:52pm Sat 17 May 08
I really don't think any of the politicians and press, even you, Iain, have any idea quite how bad the situation is.
We are just at the "End of the Beginning" of a "Credit Crash". The next phase - during the next six months or so - will be a collapse of corporate profits, leading to plenty of corporate insolvencies and a fresh wave of pain for Banks.
My take on it - in Asia Times recently
http://www.atimes.co
m/atimes/Global_Econ
omy/JD03Dj04.html
is that we reached a point of "Peak Credit" in the middle of last year, and that the only solution is a new global settlement - a "Bretton Woods 2".
I really don't think any of the politicians and press, even you, Iain, have any idea quite how bad the situation is.
We are just at the "End of the Beginning" of a "Credit Crash". The next phase - during the next six months or so - will be a collapse of corporate profits, leading to plenty of corporate insolvencies and a fresh wave of pain for Banks.
My take on it - in Asia Times recently
http://www.atimes.co
m/atimes/Global_Econ
omy/JD03Dj04.html
is that we reached a point of "Peak Credit" in the middle of last year, and that the only solution is a new global settlement - a "Bretton Woods 2".
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 8:59pm Sat 17 May 08
Brown has already got the title for his book ready: "How to lose Scotland and stuff up an economy in less than a year as PM". Alternative title: "What the F***s Going On".
Brown has already got the title for his book ready: "How to lose Scotland and stuff up an economy in less than a year as PM". Alternative title: "What the F***s Going On".
Posted by: lillywhite, borders on 9:18pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Im no really here[/bold] wrote:
Brown has already got the title for his book ready: "How to lose Scotland and stuff up an economy in less than a year as PM". Alternative title: "What the F***s Going On".[/quote] look forward to reading it
Im no really here wrote:
Brown has already got the title for his book ready: "How to lose Scotland and stuff up an economy in less than a year as PM". Alternative title: "What the F***s Going On".
look forward to reading it
Posted by: Nick, Surrey on 9:28pm Sat 17 May 08
"Giving with one hand to take away with another doesn't make a lot of economic sense."
No, but it's the "Hope they're too stupid to notice" fob off politics of this government.
"Giving with one hand to take away with another doesn't make a lot of economic sense."
No, but it's the "Hope they're too stupid to notice" fob off politics of this government.
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly on 9:48pm Sat 17 May 08
The only problem with what Darling did was to give tax refunds to those the 10 pence tax rate withdrawl had no negative effect as the basic rate was reduced by 2 pence. There were still 1.8 million at the bottem end that are still losing out. Why did not just increase the personal allowace further and then reduce the starting level of higher rate tax band to recoup?
The only problem with what Darling did was to give tax refunds to those the 10 pence tax rate withdrawl had no negative effect as the basic rate was reduced by 2 pence. There were still 1.8 million at the bottem end that are still losing out. Why did not just increase the personal allowace further and then reduce the starting level of higher rate tax band to recoup?
Posted by: mt on 9:52pm Sat 17 May 08
Chris Cook on 8:52pm today
"I really don't think any of the politicians and press, even you, Iain, have any idea quite how bad the situation is."
I think you are right. Every 2p onto the fuel price puts 1% onto transport costs to cover the cost of fuel alone. When transport goes up, food, clothes, everything goes up.
The SNP Westminster Treasury spokesperson, Stewart Hosie MP made a case on Thursday for the introduction of a fuel duty regulator to protect motorists and businesses, as the House of Commons Finance Bill Committee considered amendments.
The proposal would mean that higher oil prices trigger lower fuel duties, which make up 60% of the price of petrol and diesel.
The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
Mr Hosie said " Every time oil prices go up, we pay through the nose. However the Treasury rakes in the loot not just from corporation tax but also from increased VAT on the rising price at the pumps. This proposal would see any extra cash raised from VAT on higher pump prices would go straight back into an equivalent cut in fuel duty, helping motorists living in remote rural communities and the hard pressed haulage industry. Ironically Scotland as one of the world's largest oil producers is hit hardest as our haulage industry is most vulnerable to high pump prices"
The public, businesses and the country need stability. Only when prices stabilise, will confidence return.
Chris Cook on 8:52pm today
"I really don't think any of the politicians and press, even you, Iain, have any idea quite how bad the situation is."
I think you are right. Every 2p onto the fuel price puts 1% onto transport costs to cover the cost of fuel alone. When transport goes up, food, clothes, everything goes up.
The SNP Westminster Treasury spokesperson, Stewart Hosie MP made a case on Thursday for the introduction of a fuel duty regulator to protect motorists and businesses, as the House of Commons Finance Bill Committee considered amendments.
The proposal would mean that higher oil prices trigger lower fuel duties, which make up 60% of the price of petrol and diesel.
The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
Mr Hosie said " Every time oil prices go up, we pay through the nose. However the Treasury rakes in the loot not just from corporation tax but also from increased VAT on the rising price at the pumps. This proposal would see any extra cash raised from VAT on higher pump prices would go straight back into an equivalent cut in fuel duty, helping motorists living in remote rural communities and the hard pressed haulage industry. Ironically Scotland as one of the world's largest oil producers is hit hardest as our haulage industry is most vulnerable to high pump prices"
The public, businesses and the country need stability. Only when prices stabilise, will confidence return.
Posted by: observer on 10:11pm Sat 17 May 08
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Posted by: observer on 10:11pm Sat 17 May 08
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Posted by: observer on 10:11pm Sat 17 May 08
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Scottish nothing
rangers nothing
this was the old face of britishness resurrected
glad the empire is over
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 10:31pm Sat 17 May 08
Mormons keep a two year supply of food. What a smart idea - especially looking at the next two years.
Mormons keep a two year supply of food. What a smart idea - especially looking at the next two years.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 10:34pm Sat 17 May 08
Scunnert,
They also wear funny underwear and can have more than one wife... don't look so smart now.
Scunnert,
They also wear funny underwear and can have more than one wife... don't look so smart now.
Posted by: Wullie on 10:35pm Sat 17 May 08
Prudence, what else can one say.
Another dram Gordon?
Prudence, what else can one say.
Another dram Gordon?
Posted by: Wullie on 10:35pm Sat 17 May 08
Prudence, what else can one say.
Another dram Gordon?
Prudence, what else can one say.
Another dram Gordon?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 10:54pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]wee folding bike[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert,
They also wear funny underwear and can have more than one wife... don't look so smart now.[/quote] More than one wife? Do they do it as a penance?
wee folding bike wrote:
Scunnert,
They also wear funny underwear and can have more than one wife... don't look so smart now.
More than one wife? Do they do it as a penance?
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 10:56pm Sat 17 May 08
Perhaps they'll do a U turn and reverse this measure after the by-election? You wouldn't put it past Labour at present.
Agree the measure sounds economically unsound.
Perhaps they'll do a U turn and reverse this measure after the by-election? You wouldn't put it past Labour at present.
Agree the measure sounds economically unsound.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 10:57pm Sat 17 May 08
Scunnert,
Can't think of any other reason...
Of course I'm watching Flash Gordon with a commentary by Brian Blessed then I have to watch it with the Mike Hodges commentary. Some people would think that was a penance.
Scunnert,
Can't think of any other reason...
Of course I'm watching Flash Gordon with a commentary by Brian Blessed then I have to watch it with the Mike Hodges commentary. Some people would think that was a penance.
Posted by: lillywhite, borders on 10:58pm Sat 17 May 08
Excellent article in the sunday times about the cost of quangos under liebour reaching 100 billion. It'is surely time for everyone to see sense and dispose of this bunch of incompetent fraudsters that pass themselves of as agovernment.by the way thats 100 billion a year not since they came to power.
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/po
litics/article395392
2.ece
Excellent article in the sunday times about the cost of quangos under liebour reaching 100 billion. It'is surely time for everyone to see sense and dispose of this bunch of incompetent fraudsters that pass themselves of as agovernment.by the way thats 100 billion a year not since they came to power.
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/po
litics/article395392
2.ece
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 11:05pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]wee folding bike[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert,
Can't think of any other reason...
Of course I'm watching Flash Gordon with a commentary by Brian Blessed then I have to watch it with the Mike Hodges commentary. Some people would think that was a penance.[/quote] We all have our crosses to bear!
wee folding bike wrote:
Scunnert,
Can't think of any other reason...
Of course I'm watching Flash Gordon with a commentary by Brian Blessed then I have to watch it with the Mike Hodges commentary. Some people would think that was a penance.
We all have our crosses to bear!
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 11:10pm Sat 17 May 08
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 11:17pm Sat 17 May 08
jomellon,
the reality of life after oil has not sunk in yet for most folk. At the risk of being labeled a doom sayer - wur doomed - at least this civilization is. I can't see a way around it - oil and its products are central to our civilization - our way of life. No wonder politicians don't want to talk about it - there is no solution - no escape.
jomellon,
the reality of life after oil has not sunk in yet for most folk. At the risk of being labeled a doom sayer - wur doomed - at least this civilization is. I can't see a way around it - oil and its products are central to our civilization - our way of life. No wonder politicians don't want to talk about it - there is no solution - no escape.
Posted by: lillywhite, borders on 11:19pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]jomellon[/bold] wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today > The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association. I\'ll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.[/quote] Might be a reasonable argument if all countries in the EEC, America, Arab states China etc were all paying similar amounts for their fuel. But all this high price is achieving is punishing Brittish and particularly rural motorists and espescially Scottish Hauliers
jomellon wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today > The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association. I\'ll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.
Might be a reasonable argument if all countries in the EEC, America, Arab states China etc were all paying similar amounts for their fuel. But all this high price is achieving is punishing Brittish and particularly rural motorists and espescially Scottish Hauliers
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 11:23pm Sat 17 May 08
lillywhite wrote:
[quote]Might be a reasonable argument if all countries in the EEC, America, Arab states China etc were all paying similar amounts for their fuel. But all this high price is achieving is punishing Brittish and particularly rural motorists and espescially Scottish Hauliers.[/quote]
It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?
lillywhite wrote:
Might be a reasonable argument if all countries in the EEC, America, Arab states China etc were all paying similar amounts for their fuel. But all this high price is achieving is punishing Brittish and particularly rural motorists and espescially Scottish Hauliers.
It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 11:35pm Sat 17 May 08
Once a reputation has gone - it's gone! And the loss of reputation in Brown's case has been nothing short of cataclysmic. From "Iron Chancellor, Great Leader in Waiting", to "Hand-wringing nail-chewing, cowardly, bullying, threatening Ditherer Supreme" in a few short months. The myth that was created around Brown has been shown up for what it was and the emperor really does have no clothes...he always was a control freak with a nasty, petty streak and at last the public are seeing him in all his inglory.
He had the chance to prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq - had he threatened to resign, then maybe, just maybe the blessed Anthony might have lost the day....he stole the pensions of millions, cooried up to his pals in big business and created the most complicated system of taxation and rebates known to man all to keep a dependency culture alive and well. His economic strategy was based on rising house prices and encouraging massive personal debt levels, which created a false sense of financial health. The reality is there never was any substance to the man.
Oh yes, and the rise of anti-Scots prejudice in the London press, never, to be sure, all that far beneath the surface at the best of times, means that he is finished as far as "middle England" is concerned.
Trouble is, it's when a rat is cornered that it is considered to be at its most dangerous. We are in for some interesting times, particularly here in Scotland, when Brown comes out with statements like he is "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union. Yet another veiled threat, which shows clearly the type of man he is.
Once a reputation has gone - it's gone! And the loss of reputation in Brown's case has been nothing short of cataclysmic. From "Iron Chancellor, Great Leader in Waiting", to "Hand-wringing nail-chewing, cowardly, bullying, threatening Ditherer Supreme" in a few short months. The myth that was created around Brown has been shown up for what it was and the emperor really does have no clothes...he always was a control freak with a nasty, petty streak and at last the public are seeing him in all his inglory.
He had the chance to prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq - had he threatened to resign, then maybe, just maybe the blessed Anthony might have lost the day....he stole the pensions of millions, cooried up to his pals in big business and created the most complicated system of taxation and rebates known to man all to keep a dependency culture alive and well. His economic strategy was based on rising house prices and encouraging massive personal debt levels, which created a false sense of financial health. The reality is there never was any substance to the man.
Oh yes, and the rise of anti-Scots prejudice in the London press, never, to be sure, all that far beneath the surface at the best of times, means that he is finished as far as "middle England" is concerned.
Trouble is, it's when a rat is cornered that it is considered to be at its most dangerous. We are in for some interesting times, particularly here in Scotland, when Brown comes out with statements like he is "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union. Yet another veiled threat, which shows clearly the type of man he is.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:49pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]nostress[/bold] wrote:
Once a reputation has gone - it's gone! And the loss of reputation in Brown's case has been nothing short of cataclysmic. From "Iron Chancellor, Great Leader in Waiting", to "Hand-wringing nail-chewing, cowardly, bullying, threatening Ditherer Supreme" in a few short months. The myth that was created around Brown has been shown up for what it was and the emperor really does have no clothes...he always was a control freak with a nasty, petty streak and at last the public are seeing him in all his inglory.
He had the chance to prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq - had he threatened to resign, then maybe, just maybe the blessed Anthony might have lost the day....he stole the pensions of millions, cooried up to his pals in big business and created the most complicated system of taxation and rebates known to man all to keep a dependency culture alive and well. His economic strategy was based on rising house prices and encouraging massive personal debt levels, which created a false sense of financial health. The reality is there never was any substance to the man.
Oh yes, and the rise of anti-Scots prejudice in the London press, never, to be sure, all that far beneath the surface at the best of times, means that he is finished as far as "middle England" is concerned.
Trouble is, it's when a rat is cornered that it is considered to be at its most dangerous. We are in for some interesting times, particularly here in Scotland, when Brown comes out with statements like he is "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union. Yet another veiled threat, which shows clearly the type of man he is. [/quote]
Linked to this the outrage that is the exposed PFI scandal of over £50 BILLION...... Gordon Brown and his mistress Prudence have been exposed
Nevermind, one by election and a vote on 42 days and it might just be the end of this idiot.
Nostress, your comment re" anti-scottishness' is central to his failure and was basically what Blair and Mandy were outlining without saying it.
Brown will be at the centre of the dissolution of the union, where he likes it or not
nostress wrote:
Once a reputation has gone - it's gone! And the loss of reputation in Brown's case has been nothing short of cataclysmic. From "Iron Chancellor, Great Leader in Waiting", to "Hand-wringing nail-chewing, cowardly, bullying, threatening Ditherer Supreme" in a few short months. The myth that was created around Brown has been shown up for what it was and the emperor really does have no clothes...he always was a control freak with a nasty, petty streak and at last the public are seeing him in all his inglory.
He had the chance to prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq - had he threatened to resign, then maybe, just maybe the blessed Anthony might have lost the day....he stole the pensions of millions, cooried up to his pals in big business and created the most complicated system of taxation and rebates known to man all to keep a dependency culture alive and well. His economic strategy was based on rising house prices and encouraging massive personal debt levels, which created a false sense of financial health. The reality is there never was any substance to the man.
Oh yes, and the rise of anti-Scots prejudice in the London press, never, to be sure, all that far beneath the surface at the best of times, means that he is finished as far as "middle England" is concerned.
Trouble is, it's when a rat is cornered that it is considered to be at its most dangerous. We are in for some interesting times, particularly here in Scotland, when Brown comes out with statements like he is "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union. Yet another veiled threat, which shows clearly the type of man he is.
Linked to this the outrage that is the exposed PFI scandal of over £50 BILLION...... Gordon Brown and his mistress Prudence have been exposed
Nevermind, one by election and a vote on 42 days and it might just be the end of this idiot.
Nostress, your comment re" anti-scottishness' is central to his failure and was basically what Blair and Mandy were outlining without saying it.
Brown will be at the centre of the dissolution of the union, where he likes it or not
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:54pm Sat 17 May 08
nostress, grangemouth on 11:35pm today
re: Gogs "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union.
You don't think he would go through with it do you?
You know, get it lopped off...... his scottishness.
A tuck and tidy job, just leaving a wee cringe scar.
Then we'd have to call him 'Dave'.
Tory in Labour's Clothing.
nostress, grangemouth on 11:35pm today
re: Gogs "prepared to consider anything to preserve" the union.
You don't think he would go through with it do you?
You know, get it lopped off...... his scottishness.
A tuck and tidy job, just leaving a wee cringe scar.
Then we'd have to call him 'Dave'.
Tory in Labour's Clothing.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:57pm Sat 17 May 08
[bold]Wendy Alexander loses support of party[/bold]
www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/uk/scotla
nd/article3953986.ec
e
Wendy Alexander loses support of party
www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/uk/scotla
nd/article3953986.ec
e
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 12:08am Sun 18 May 08
Nice one Wardog :-)
I just wish I could believe it would be something like that...he can lop off any bit of his worthless carcass as far as I'm concerned...but I genuinely feel that the British State has shown in the past that it will stop at nothing to preserve the privileges of its elite and it ill becomes a supposed statesman to make such threats, however veiled.
Nice one Wardog :-)
I just wish I could believe it would be something like that...he can lop off any bit of his worthless carcass as far as I'm concerned...but I genuinely feel that the British State has shown in the past that it will stop at nothing to preserve the privileges of its elite and it ill becomes a supposed statesman to make such threats, however veiled.
Posted by: mt on 12:29am Sun 18 May 08
Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon
"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?"
They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food.
Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon
"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?"
They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:34am Sun 18 May 08
Thanks to [italic]Im no really here[/italic] for sourcing
[bold]Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich'[/bold]
The Times 18th May 2008
SOARING oil prices would give an independent Scotland a £4.4 billion budget surplus, making it one of Europe's richest countries, according to a new study.
[bold]The surplus would allow Alex Salmond to maintain existing levels of public spending, while cutting corporation tax from 28% to 12.5%, reducing income tax by 5p in the pound and still having £2 billion every year to invest in a Norwegian-style oil fund to safeguard Scotland against a future decline in North Sea oil revenue.[/bold]
The study, based on Treasury oil revenue forecasts and official spending figures, has calculated that, without money from the taxation of oil and gas, an independent Scotland would have an underlying deficit of £7.8billion. But when £12.2billion of oil and gas revenues are included, Scotland would have a surplus of more than £4billion.
The findings are likely to be seized on by Salmond to claim in a referendum campaign that an independent Scotland would be one of the wealthiest nations in Europe.
This would create problems for Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader, who has indicated that she supports a vote on separation.
Last week the Scottish government wrote to Alistair Darling, the chancellor, demanding talks on transferring North Sea revenues to Holyrood.
The calculations, by leading accountancy firm Grant Thornton, are in stark contrast to a UK government report in 2006 that indicated that an independent Scotland would have a deficit of £6billion, even if oil and gas revenues were taken into account. However, the price of oil has more than doubled since 2005 to $120 (£61) a barrel, leading economists to conclude that Scotland “is sitting on a gold mine”.
Maurice Fitzpatrick, an accountant with Grant Thornton, who has examined the economics of an independent Scotland for the past decade, said: “There is no doubt about it. The figures point to a very rosy picture.”
He added that the report, commissioned by The Sunday Times, may have underestimated the Scottish surplus because the calculations assume that Scotland would receive 82.5% of North Sea oil revenues. Salmond, however, is demanding a 95% share, which would raise Scotland's budget surplus to an estimated £6.2 billion.
While the amount of oil and gas being extracted from the North Sea fell by 5% last year to 2.8m barrels a day, the price rise has more than offset the decline.
Many oil analysts believe the cost of oil will rise soon to $150 a barrel and could reach $200 by 2010, because of demand from China and India and concerns about the security of supply.
Other economists are more sceptical. Thorsten Fischer, senior economist at the Royal Bank of Scotland, expects the price to fall by 30% over time, which would lead to a more modest surplus.
Oil & Gas UK, the offshore industry body, expects the volume of North Sea oil and gas extracted to fall to 2.4m barrels a day by 2010 but claims reserves could be drawn for a further 30 years.
[italic]http://business.time
sonline.co.uk/tol/bu
siness/industry_sect
ors/natural_resource
s/article3954031.ece[/italic]
Thanks to
Im no really here for sourcing
Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich'
The Times 18th May 2008
SOARING oil prices would give an independent Scotland a £4.4 billion budget surplus, making it one of Europe's richest countries, according to a new study.
The surplus would allow Alex Salmond to maintain existing levels of public spending, while cutting corporation tax from 28% to 12.5%, reducing income tax by 5p in the pound and still having £2 billion every year to invest in a Norwegian-style oil fund to safeguard Scotland against a future decline in North Sea oil revenue.
The study, based on Treasury oil revenue forecasts and official spending figures, has calculated that, without money from the taxation of oil and gas, an independent Scotland would have an underlying deficit of £7.8billion. But when £12.2billion of oil and gas revenues are included, Scotland would have a surplus of more than £4billion.
The findings are likely to be seized on by Salmond to claim in a referendum campaign that an independent Scotland would be one of the wealthiest nations in Europe.
This would create problems for Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader, who has indicated that she supports a vote on separation.
Last week the Scottish government wrote to Alistair Darling, the chancellor, demanding talks on transferring North Sea revenues to Holyrood.
The calculations, by leading accountancy firm Grant Thornton, are in stark contrast to a UK government report in 2006 that indicated that an independent Scotland would have a deficit of £6billion, even if oil and gas revenues were taken into account. However, the price of oil has more than doubled since 2005 to $120 (£61) a barrel, leading economists to conclude that Scotland “is sitting on a gold mine”.
Maurice Fitzpatrick, an accountant with Grant Thornton, who has examined the economics of an independent Scotland for the past decade, said: “There is no doubt about it. The figures point to a very rosy picture.”
He added that the report, commissioned by The Sunday Times, may have underestimated the Scottish surplus because the calculations assume that Scotland would receive 82.5% of North Sea oil revenues. Salmond, however, is demanding a 95% share, which would raise Scotland's budget surplus to an estimated £6.2 billion.
While the amount of oil and gas being extracted from the North Sea fell by 5% last year to 2.8m barrels a day, the price rise has more than offset the decline.
Many oil analysts believe the cost of oil will rise soon to $150 a barrel and could reach $200 by 2010, because of demand from China and India and concerns about the security of supply.
Other economists are more sceptical. Thorsten Fischer, senior economist at the Royal Bank of Scotland, expects the price to fall by 30% over time, which would lead to a more modest surplus.
Oil & Gas UK, the offshore industry body, expects the volume of North Sea oil and gas extracted to fall to 2.4m barrels a day by 2010 but claims reserves could be drawn for a further 30 years.
http://business.time
sonline.co.uk/tol/bu
siness/industry_sect
ors/natural_resource
s/article3954031.ece Posted by: Solomon, Sterling on 12:40am Sun 18 May 08
Don't Panic we can sell some of the GOLD that will bring some highly desired revenues back to WESTMINSTER.
Oh sorry Alastair did I forget to mention I sold the GOLD at the car boot sale after we came to power. Who did you sell it to? I can't remember but they did say that they will contact me after Labour are voted out.
So it's not all bad news Alastair!
Don't Panic we can sell some of the GOLD that will bring some highly desired revenues back to WESTMINSTER.
Oh sorry Alastair did I forget to mention I sold the GOLD at the car boot sale after we came to power. Who did you sell it to? I can't remember but they did say that they will contact me after Labour are voted out.
So it's not all bad news Alastair!
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:09am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]mt[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon
"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?"
They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food. [/quote] Aye -but aw they wives?
mt wrote:
Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon
"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there's none left?"
They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food.
Aye -but aw they wives?
Posted by: Andrew, Renfrewshire on 1:43am Sun 18 May 08
Another Sunday, another McWhirter dig at Gordon Brown. It's getting pathetically predictable!
Aren't the "...most wonderfully social democratic government of all time" worthy of some scrutiny?
Another Sunday, another McWhirter dig at Gordon Brown. It's getting pathetically predictable!
Aren't the "...most wonderfully social democratic government of all time" worthy of some scrutiny?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 2:10am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]Andrew[/bold] wrote:
Another Sunday, another McWhirter dig at Gordon Brown. It's getting pathetically predictable!
Aren't the "...most wonderfully social democratic government of all time" worthy of some scrutiny?[/quote] Certainly worthy of applause. Let's admit it - the whole of the UK is impatient for change. For G.B. to hang on in the face of universal disdain is sadistic. EVERYONE WANTS HIM GONE. Got it Andrew?
Andrew wrote:
Another Sunday, another McWhirter dig at Gordon Brown. It's getting pathetically predictable!
Aren't the "...most wonderfully social democratic government of all time" worthy of some scrutiny?
Certainly worthy of applause. Let's admit it - the whole of the UK is impatient for change. For G.B. to hang on in the face of universal disdain is sadistic. EVERYONE WANTS HIM GONE. Got it Andrew?
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 3:16am Sun 18 May 08
Hey Andrew, maybe this will help:
The Dead Parrot Sketch
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
Praline: Hello, I wish to register a complaint . . . Hello? Miss?
Shopkeeper: What do you mean, miss?
Praline: Oh, I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint.
Shopkeeper: Sorry, we're closing for lunch.
Praline: Never mind that my lad, I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Shopkeeper: Oh yes, the Norwegian Blue. What's wrong with it?
Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it.
Shopkeeper: No, no it's resting, look!
Praline: Look my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Shopkeeper: No, no sir, it's not dead. It's resting.
Praline: Resting?
Shopkeeper: Yeah, remarkable bird the Norwegian Blue, beautiful plumage, innit?
Praline: The plumage don't enter into it -- it's stone dead.
Shopkeeper: No, no -- it's just resting.
Praline: All right then, if it's resting I'll wake it up. (shouts into cage) Hello Polly! I've got a nice cuttlefish for you when you wake up, Polly Parrot!
Shopkeeper: (jogging cage) There it moved.
Praline: No he didn't. That was you pushing the cage.
Shopkeeper: I did not.
Praline: Yes, you did. (takes parrot out of cage, shouts) Hello Polly, Polly (bangs it against counter) Polly Parrot, wake up. Polly. (throws it in the air and lets it fall to the floor) Now that's what I call a dead parrot.
Shopkeeper: No, no it's stunned.
Praline: Look my lad, I've had just about enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased. And when I bought it not half an hour ago, you assured me that its lack of movement was due to it being tired and shagged out after a long squawk.
Shopkeeper: It's probably pining for the fjords.
Praline: Pining for the fjords, what kind of talk is that? Look, why did it fall flat on its back the moment I got it home?
Shopkeeper: The Norwegian Blue prefers kipping on its back. Beautiful bird, lovely plumage.
Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot, and I discovered that the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been nailed there.
Shopkeeper: Well of course it was nailed there. Otherwise it would muscle up to those bars and voom.
Praline: Look matey (picks up parrot) this parrot wouldn't voom if I put four thousand volts through it. It's bleeding demised.
Shopkeeper: It's not, it's pining.
Praline: It's not pining, it's passed on. This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late parrot. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-parrot.
Shopkeeper: Well, I'd better replace it then.
Praline: (to camera) If you want to get anything done in this country you've got to complain till you're blue in the mouth.
Shopkeeper: Sorry guv, we're right out of parrots.
Praline: I see. I see. I get the picture.
Shopkeeper: I've got a slug.
Praline: Does it talk?
Shopkeeper: Not really, no.
Praline: Well, it's scarcely a replacement, then is it?
Shopkeeper: Listen, I'll tell you what, (handing over a card) tell you what, if you go to my brother's pet shop in Bolton he'll replace your parrot for you.
Praline: Bolton eh?
Shopkeeper: Yeah.
Praline: All right. He leaves, holding the parrot.
CAPTION: A SIMILAR PET SHOP IN BOLTON, LANCS
Close-up of sign on door reading: 'Similar Pet Shops Ltd'. Pull back from sign to see same pet shop. Shopkeeper now has moustache. Praline walks into shop. He looks around with interest, noticing the empty parrot cage still on the floor.
Praline: Er, excuse me. This is Bolton, is it?
Shopkeeper: No, no it's, er, Ipswich.
Praline: (to camera) That's Inter-City Rail for you. (leaves)
Man in porter's outfit standing at complaints desk for railways. Praline approaches.
Praline: I wish to make a complaint.
Porter: I don't have to do this, you know.
Praline: I beg your pardon?
Porter: I'm a qualified brain surgeon. I only do this because I like being my own boss.
Praline: Er, excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?
Porter: Oh yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to thirty minutes.
Praline: Well I wish to make a complaint. I got on the Bolton train and found myself deposited here in Ipswich.
Porter: No, this is Bolton.
Praline: (to camera) The pet shop owner's brother was lying.
Porter: Well you can't blame British Rail for that.
Praline: If this is Bolton, I shall return to the pet shop.
CAPTION: 'A LITTLE LATER LTD.'
Praline walks into the shop again.
Praline: I understand that this is Bolton.
Shopkeeper: Yes.
Praline: Well, you told me it was Ipswich.
Shopkeeper: It was a pun.
Praline: A pun?
Shopkeeper: No, no, not a pun, no. What's the other thing which reads the same backwards as forwards?
Praline: A palindrome?
Shopkeeper: Yes, yes.
Praline: It's not a palindrome. The palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob. It don't work.
Shopkeeper: Look, what do you want?
Praline: No I'm sorry, I'm not prepared to pursue my line of enquiry any further as I think this is getting too silly.
Colonel: (coming in) Quite agree. Quite agree. Silly. Silly . . . silly. Right get on with it. Get on with it.
Hey Andrew, maybe this will help:
The Dead Parrot Sketch
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
Praline: Hello, I wish to register a complaint . . . Hello? Miss?
Shopkeeper: What do you mean, miss?
Praline: Oh, I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint.
Shopkeeper: Sorry, we're closing for lunch.
Praline: Never mind that my lad, I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Shopkeeper: Oh yes, the Norwegian Blue. What's wrong with it?
Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it.
Shopkeeper: No, no it's resting, look!
Praline: Look my lad, I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Shopkeeper: No, no sir, it's not dead. It's resting.
Praline: Resting?
Shopkeeper: Yeah, remarkable bird the Norwegian Blue, beautiful plumage, innit?
Praline: The plumage don't enter into it -- it's stone dead.
Shopkeeper: No, no -- it's just resting.
Praline: All right then, if it's resting I'll wake it up. (shouts into cage) Hello Polly! I've got a nice cuttlefish for you when you wake up, Polly Parrot!
Shopkeeper: (jogging cage) There it moved.
Praline: No he didn't. That was you pushing the cage.
Shopkeeper: I did not.
Praline: Yes, you did. (takes parrot out of cage, shouts) Hello Polly, Polly (bangs it against counter) Polly Parrot, wake up. Polly. (throws it in the air and lets it fall to the floor) Now that's what I call a dead parrot.
Shopkeeper: No, no it's stunned.
Praline: Look my lad, I've had just about enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased. And when I bought it not half an hour ago, you assured me that its lack of movement was due to it being tired and shagged out after a long squawk.
Shopkeeper: It's probably pining for the fjords.
Praline: Pining for the fjords, what kind of talk is that? Look, why did it fall flat on its back the moment I got it home?
Shopkeeper: The Norwegian Blue prefers kipping on its back. Beautiful bird, lovely plumage.
Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot, and I discovered that the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been nailed there.
Shopkeeper: Well of course it was nailed there. Otherwise it would muscle up to those bars and voom.
Praline: Look matey (picks up parrot) this parrot wouldn't voom if I put four thousand volts through it. It's bleeding demised.
Shopkeeper: It's not, it's pining.
Praline: It's not pining, it's passed on. This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late parrot. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-parrot.
Shopkeeper: Well, I'd better replace it then.
Praline: (to camera) If you want to get anything done in this country you've got to complain till you're blue in the mouth.
Shopkeeper: Sorry guv, we're right out of parrots.
Praline: I see. I see. I get the picture.
Shopkeeper: I've got a slug.
Praline: Does it talk?
Shopkeeper: Not really, no.
Praline: Well, it's scarcely a replacement, then is it?
Shopkeeper: Listen, I'll tell you what, (handing over a card) tell you what, if you go to my brother's pet shop in Bolton he'll replace your parrot for you.
Praline: Bolton eh?
Shopkeeper: Yeah.
Praline: All right. He leaves, holding the parrot.
CAPTION: A SIMILAR PET SHOP IN BOLTON, LANCS
Close-up of sign on door reading: 'Similar Pet Shops Ltd'. Pull back from sign to see same pet shop. Shopkeeper now has moustache. Praline walks into shop. He looks around with interest, noticing the empty parrot cage still on the floor.
Praline: Er, excuse me. This is Bolton, is it?
Shopkeeper: No, no it's, er, Ipswich.
Praline: (to camera) That's Inter-City Rail for you. (leaves)
Man in porter's outfit standing at complaints desk for railways. Praline approaches.
Praline: I wish to make a complaint.
Porter: I don't have to do this, you know.
Praline: I beg your pardon?
Porter: I'm a qualified brain surgeon. I only do this because I like being my own boss.
Praline: Er, excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?
Porter: Oh yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to thirty minutes.
Praline: Well I wish to make a complaint. I got on the Bolton train and found myself deposited here in Ipswich.
Porter: No, this is Bolton.
Praline: (to camera) The pet shop owner's brother was lying.
Porter: Well you can't blame British Rail for that.
Praline: If this is Bolton, I shall return to the pet shop.
CAPTION: 'A LITTLE LATER LTD.'
Praline walks into the shop again.
Praline: I understand that this is Bolton.
Shopkeeper: Yes.
Praline: Well, you told me it was Ipswich.
Shopkeeper: It was a pun.
Praline: A pun?
Shopkeeper: No, no, not a pun, no. What's the other thing which reads the same backwards as forwards?
Praline: A palindrome?
Shopkeeper: Yes, yes.
Praline: It's not a palindrome. The palindrome of Bolton would be Notlob. It don't work.
Shopkeeper: Look, what do you want?
Praline: No I'm sorry, I'm not prepared to pursue my line of enquiry any further as I think this is getting too silly.
Colonel: (coming in) Quite agree. Quite agree. Silly. Silly . . . silly. Right get on with it. Get on with it.
Posted by: Alan on 5:43am Sun 18 May 08
To hell with your parot and tell hell with Liebour!
All of us up here need to extract ourselves from Westmonster as fast as possible before we are sucked into this international black hole.
[bold]IT MIGHT BE STILL SORE AFTER INDEPENDENCE[/bold]
[bold]BUT A NOTHING[/bold]
[bold]TO STAYING IN THIS HISTORICAL UNION[/bold]
To hell with your parot and tell hell with Liebour!
All of us up here need to extract ourselves from Westmonster as fast as possible before we are sucked into this international black hole.
IT MIGHT BE STILL SORE AFTER INDEPENDENCE
BUT A NOTHING
TO STAYING IN THIS HISTORICAL UNION Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 7:05am Sun 18 May 08
the integrity of a politician is a factor in how people will vote.
the fact the speaker and his cronies continues to spend public money in an attempt to hide their trail of spending confirms that he and others are not in it for the people, quaestuaries of the worst order.
corruption will be an issue, as will be the incompetence/ underhand dealings relating to numerous pfi's.
your paper has exposed what we all knew; that those in charge serve themselves.
the snp can stay clean and play this card with gusto, with the tories and libs embroiled due to their actions on also supporting the secrecy of elected officialdom.
up to now we have to accept and say they are all crooks and as bad as each other. if one ,lot is less crooked, regardless of their politics, people will be interested in voting for them based on that reason.
the integrity of a politician is a factor in how people will vote.
the fact the speaker and his cronies continues to spend public money in an attempt to hide their trail of spending confirms that he and others are not in it for the people, quaestuaries of the worst order.
corruption will be an issue, as will be the incompetence/ underhand dealings relating to numerous pfi's.
your paper has exposed what we all knew; that those in charge serve themselves.
the snp can stay clean and play this card with gusto, with the tories and libs embroiled due to their actions on also supporting the secrecy of elected officialdom.
up to now we have to accept and say they are all crooks and as bad as each other. if one ,lot is less crooked, regardless of their politics, people will be interested in voting for them based on that reason.
Posted by: troll, pomona on 7:32am Sun 18 May 08
How much did they give to their friends the bankers when they needed a sub?
A great chance missed to kill of those vipers.
How much did they give to their friends the bankers when they needed a sub?
A great chance missed to kill of those vipers.
Posted by: stonehaven on 9:14am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]jomellon[/bold] wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.[/quote] I don't think that your "the planet is frying" is a paticularly relevant argument in this context. Of course fuel duties need to reduce in order to avoid the destruction of our haulage industry.
jomellon wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.
I don't think that your "the planet is frying" is a paticularly relevant argument in this context. Of course fuel duties need to reduce in order to avoid the destruction of our haulage industry.
Posted by: mt on 9:23am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]Scunnert[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]mt[/bold] wrote: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon \"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there\'s none left?\" They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food. [/quote] Aye -but aw they wives?[/quote] Nae bother tae a haulier!
They'll put 30 tonnes on their back and drive them round the bend
Scunnert wrote:
mt wrote: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon \"It would be a good idea to stop selling the stuff abroad and keep it for our own use. What happens to the haulers when there\'s none left?\" They park up then live with the Mormons who keep a two year supply of food.
Aye -but aw they wives?
Nae bother tae a haulier!
They'll put 30 tonnes on their back and drive them round the bend
Posted by: stonehaven on 9:28am Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]jomellon[/bold] wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.[/quote] I don't think that your "the planet is frying" is a paticularly relevant argument in this context. Of course fuel duties need to reduce in order to avoid the destruction of our haulage industry.
jomellon wrote:
@mt on 9:52pm today
> The Regulator would result in an automatic freeze on fuel duty increases if world oil prices rose above levels forecast by the Chancellor and a parallel reduction in duty to match the extra revenue from VAT from higher pump prices. The proposal is backed by the Road Haulage Association.
I'll bet they are... The planet is frying and the price of oil is high because it is running out (just as well...). So the last thing needed is lower taxes on energy to avoid the need to change patterns of energy consumption.
I don't think that your "the planet is frying" is a paticularly relevant argument in this context. Of course fuel duties need to reduce in order to avoid the destruction of our haulage industry.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 9:30am Sun 18 May 08
What has become clear is that Gordon Brown doesn't understand the markets, doesn't understand big business, nor globalisation, nor the banks.
Gordon Brown is a man who played thief with the taxation system, played merry with the benefit system and played the fool on PFI all for short term political gain.
Gordon Brown will pay the penalty at the ballot box, if is not pushed, while we will pay the penalty with higher taxes, poorer public services and the pain of high debt.
What fools Scots have been to put up with Thatcherism by continuing to vote Lavour. The madness of voting Labour which brought the corrupt New Labour to power has been laid bare.
What has become clear is that Gordon Brown doesn't understand the markets, doesn't understand big business, nor globalisation, nor the banks.
Gordon Brown is a man who played thief with the taxation system, played merry with the benefit system and played the fool on PFI all for short term political gain.
Gordon Brown will pay the penalty at the ballot box, if is not pushed, while we will pay the penalty with higher taxes, poorer public services and the pain of high debt.
What fools Scots have been to put up with Thatcherism by continuing to vote Lavour. The madness of voting Labour which brought the corrupt New Labour to power has been laid bare.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 9:34am Sun 18 May 08
Anyone been on the Scotsman site?
That "expert " on elections has apparently said that he believes that some MSPs were NOT elected to Holyrood and should not have seats there. Took him a year to say that!
Of course the Scotsman is implying that the MSPs in question would ALL have been SNP!
Also on the BBC website MPs are saying that Holyrood should NOT run the elections up here.
See me? See disgusted ? Totally!
Anyone been on the Scotsman site?
That "expert " on elections has apparently said that he believes that some MSPs were NOT elected to Holyrood and should not have seats there. Took him a year to say that!
Of course the Scotsman is implying that the MSPs in question would ALL have been SNP!
Also on the BBC website MPs are saying that Holyrood should NOT run the elections up here.
See me? See disgusted ? Totally!
Posted by: mt on 10:02am Sun 18 May 08
stonehaven on 9:14am today
The government tax operating costs, i.e. fuel. Every 2p onto fuel adds 1% onto transport costs.
Fuel has increased by 32p from this time last year and forecasts indicate they will rise by another 56p within six months. This is not just a 44% increase but more as the cost of parts, drivers wages, insurance, etc goes up.
When the hauliers protested on 2000, the government promised that foreign hauliers would be given similar costs to British Hauliers. This has not happened!
If a British truck is stopped by VOSA/Police and found to have a defect, it must be repaired, the truck given another full MoT and points recorded on the operator's licence in a red, amber, green sequence to ensure that officials can target "amber" hauliers before they reach "red". If a foreign truck is stopped and found to have a defect, it must be repaired and then it is allowed to leave with no further action because no legislation exists to stop them.
Foreign trucks cost £52m a year in lost working hours, vehicle repairs and injury claims as analysis by "Accident Exchange" reveals that the annual number of collisions on UK roads involving foreign registered trucks could be a high as 9800. Side-swiping remains the biggest cause of accidents.
Insurance companies are businesses and the £52m must be passed to their customers, the public. Hauliers are businesses and their costs must be passed to their customers and indirectly, the public. If the government continues to condone unfair competition then these businesses will be replaced by foreign ones.
Imagine no British trucks on British roads!!!!!!
stonehaven on 9:14am today
The government tax operating costs, i.e. fuel. Every 2p onto fuel adds 1% onto transport costs.
Fuel has increased by 32p from this time last year and forecasts indicate they will rise by another 56p within six months. This is not just a 44% increase but more as the cost of parts, drivers wages, insurance, etc goes up.
When the hauliers protested on 2000, the government promised that foreign hauliers would be given similar costs to British Hauliers. This has not happened!
If a British truck is stopped by VOSA/Police and found to have a defect, it must be repaired, the truck given another full MoT and points recorded on the operator's licence in a red, amber, green sequence to ensure that officials can target "amber" hauliers before they reach "red". If a foreign truck is stopped and found to have a defect, it must be repaired and then it is allowed to leave with no further action because no legislation exists to stop them.
Foreign trucks cost £52m a year in lost working hours, vehicle repairs and injury claims as analysis by "Accident Exchange" reveals that the annual number of collisions on UK roads involving foreign registered trucks could be a high as 9800. Side-swiping remains the biggest cause of accidents.
Insurance companies are businesses and the £52m must be passed to their customers, the public. Hauliers are businesses and their costs must be passed to their customers and indirectly, the public. If the government continues to condone unfair competition then these businesses will be replaced by foreign ones.
Imagine no British trucks on British roads!!!!!!
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:10am Sun 18 May 08
i see over on the times they are reporting that tony blairs expenses have been shredded and i wonder if any 'scottish' papers will be reporting on the £4.4 billion surplus an independent scotland would have, doubt it. Oh well off to buy the times [italic]again[/italic].
i see over on the times they are reporting that tony blairs expenses have been shredded and i wonder if any 'scottish' papers will be reporting on the £4.4 billion surplus an independent scotland would have, doubt it. Oh well off to buy the times
again.
Posted by: mt on 12:08pm Sun 18 May 08
When the hauliers protested in 2000, the Road Fund Licence for an 8W rigid was £4600 while an artic varied around £5750 to over £6000 per annum. The Government promised an reduction of RFL for both to £1200 per annum to be implemented with immediate effect, a promise they kept.
First we were advised that we would all receive an amended RFL disc and the refund of the amount due based on the number of months still to run through the post which was the easiest and most cost effective way to conduct the rebate.
Then it was changed to, all hauliers had to purchase a new disc and reclaim the months still to run. It was pointed out that every H.G.V. in the country would have the same month end for RFL instead of spread throughout the year and that this would cause additional administrative difficulties at DLVA Swansea but to no avail. Many hauliers put their RFL past every month and didn't have the additional £1200 to pay immediately. Time went on and amid the confusion, many thought that when they did renew the licence the rebate would be backdated but it wasn't.
This roundabout road for a shortcut would have increased workload for civil servants and no doubt saved the government some revenue but what they lost was respect.
When the hauliers protested in 2000, the Road Fund Licence for an 8W rigid was £4600 while an artic varied around £5750 to over £6000 per annum. The Government promised an reduction of RFL for both to £1200 per annum to be implemented with immediate effect, a promise they kept.
First we were advised that we would all receive an amended RFL disc and the refund of the amount due based on the number of months still to run through the post which was the easiest and most cost effective way to conduct the rebate.
Then it was changed to, all hauliers had to purchase a new disc and reclaim the months still to run. It was pointed out that every H.G.V. in the country would have the same month end for RFL instead of spread throughout the year and that this would cause additional administrative difficulties at DLVA Swansea but to no avail. Many hauliers put their RFL past every month and didn't have the additional £1200 to pay immediately. Time went on and amid the confusion, many thought that when they did renew the licence the rebate would be backdated but it wasn't.
This roundabout road for a shortcut would have increased workload for civil servants and no doubt saved the government some revenue but what they lost was respect.
Posted by: Ian, edinburgh on 12:53pm Sun 18 May 08
Brown's reputation was ill-deserved and fostered by a starry-eyed press corps. He took £5bn a year out of our pensions to waste on 'welfare to work' schemes that, when audited, had produced almost no jobs, he sold off the gold reserves and the price, totally predeictably for a reserve commodity, went up, he freed the Bank of England from government control, but gave it the blunt instrument of interest rate to control inflation. Don't remember any journalist thinking that was a bad thing - until it and the Financial Services Authority - another Brown creation, were found wanting after Northern Rock. He was and is a disaster for the UK economywith hos constant tinkering and tax-grabs and the benign global conditions for the last ten years have simply masked that. His day has come, and heaven help the rest of us.
Brown's reputation was ill-deserved and fostered by a starry-eyed press corps. He took £5bn a year out of our pensions to waste on 'welfare to work' schemes that, when audited, had produced almost no jobs, he sold off the gold reserves and the price, totally predeictably for a reserve commodity, went up, he freed the Bank of England from government control, but gave it the blunt instrument of interest rate to control inflation. Don't remember any journalist thinking that was a bad thing - until it and the Financial Services Authority - another Brown creation, were found wanting after Northern Rock. He was and is a disaster for the UK economywith hos constant tinkering and tax-grabs and the benign global conditions for the last ten years have simply masked that. His day has come, and heaven help the rest of us.
Posted by: JohnM, Perth on 12:54pm Sun 18 May 08
Brown's claim to prudence is just shot to pieces. Especially with this extra £120 financial stimulus which is a flea bite compared to the extra costs people are now facing due to his failed socialist tax and spend policies.
Brown's claim to prudence is just shot to pieces. Especially with this extra £120 financial stimulus which is a flea bite compared to the extra costs people are now facing due to his failed socialist tax and spend policies.
Posted by: Peter, Glasgow on 1:01pm Sun 18 May 08
An interesting article from todays Sunday Times on an Oil Rich Independent Scotland.
http://business.time
sonline.co.uk/tol/bu
siness/industry_sect
ors/natural_resource
s/article3954031.ece
An interesting article from todays Sunday Times on an Oil Rich Independent Scotland.
http://business.time
sonline.co.uk/tol/bu
siness/industry_sect
ors/natural_resource
s/article3954031.ece
Posted by: Andrew BOD, Aberdeen on 1:07pm Sun 18 May 08
[bold]Gordon Brown has been well and truly rumbled on the economy..[/bold]
[quote]"..inflation is up, unemployment is up, the cost of living is up, the pound is down, construction of new private housing is down, house prices are down etc."[/quote]
[bold]Gordon Brown has been well and truly rumbled on the referendum..[/bold]
[quote]From news.scotsman.com today
"Detailed proposals were being drawn up in Whitehall to put forward a Scottish referendum bill in the House of Commons which would have led to a quick vote on the future of the country.
Gordon Brown is understood to have been considering the plan, but it was ruled out after Alexander made a chaotic U-turn, forcing the Prime Minister to disassociate the party from such a scheme.
However, a senior Whitehall source said that ministers were "highly likely" to have gone ahead with a referendum later this year".
[/quote]
[bold]He must go NOW[/bold]
Gordon Brown has been well and truly rumbled on the economy..
"..inflation is up, unemployment is up, the cost of living is up, the pound is down, construction of new private housing is down, house prices are down etc."
Gordon Brown has been well and truly rumbled on the referendum..
From news.scotsman.com today
"Detailed proposals were being drawn up in Whitehall to put forward a Scottish referendum bill in the House of Commons which would have led to a quick vote on the future of the country.
Gordon Brown is understood to have been considering the plan, but it was ruled out after Alexander made a chaotic U-turn, forcing the Prime Minister to disassociate the party from such a scheme.
However, a senior Whitehall source said that ministers were "highly likely" to have gone ahead with a referendum later this year".
He must go NOW
Posted by: Wullie on 1:40pm Sun 18 May 08
Oh dear oh dear. From the posts it seems that the natives are not happy.
Quite why one has to wonder. It has been clear for a long long time how corrupt the Brown / Blair government is.
1) An illegal and ill-conceived war in Iraq
2) Cash for honours
3) Pension fund raid
4) Tax tax and more tax
5) Illegal party donations
6) Highest ever levels of personal debt
7) Huge levels of (public) debt via PFI/PPP
8) Declining economy
9) Soaring inflation
10) Uncontrolled immigration
11) Proposals for mandatory ID card
12) Proposals for compulsary DNA database with every citizens profile
13) 42 days detention without trial proposals
14) Ever increasing power of state surveillance
15) Spin and media manipulation.
16) Riches aplenty for Labour Ministers and their billioaire friends
17) Rip off Britain - bank charges, utility charges, fines for late payment - it goes on and on
18) Rising electricity and gas prices artificially linked to oil - why?
Ah, I have run out of puff trying to list the things that make me unhappy with Labour. But this did not happen overnight.
Systematic and systemic plundering at the public expense has been the cornerstone of New Labour.
Oh dear oh dear. From the posts it seems that the natives are not happy.
Quite why one has to wonder. It has been clear for a long long time how corrupt the Brown / Blair government is.
1) An illegal and ill-conceived war in Iraq
2) Cash for honours
3) Pension fund raid
4) Tax tax and more tax
5) Illegal party donations
6) Highest ever levels of personal debt
7) Huge levels of (public) debt via PFI/PPP
8) Declining economy
9) Soaring inflation
10) Uncontrolled immigration
11) Proposals for mandatory ID card
12) Proposals for compulsary DNA database with every citizens profile
13) 42 days detention without trial proposals
14) Ever increasing power of state surveillance
15) Spin and media manipulation.
16) Riches aplenty for Labour Ministers and their billioaire friends
17) Rip off Britain - bank charges, utility charges, fines for late payment - it goes on and on
18) Rising electricity and gas prices artificially linked to oil - why?
Ah, I have run out of puff trying to list the things that make me unhappy with Labour. But this did not happen overnight.
Systematic and systemic plundering at the public expense has been the cornerstone of New Labour.
Posted by: dave on 1:47pm Sun 18 May 08
Its time.
Posted by: ditchgazza on 2:09pm Sun 18 May 08
I bet you Gogs's style guru is getting bounced off the walls just now for telling him to try and force a smile when he was on telly last week.
I bet you Gogs's style guru is getting bounced off the walls just now for telling him to try and force a smile when he was on telly last week.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 2:22pm Sun 18 May 08
Off topic I know but nowhere else to comment and I know how much Iain loves Broon.
Just seen a very sycophantic piece by EBC Politics Scotlandshire aboot Broon's speech to the General Assembly of the C of S. Remember this individual knows little about poverty, hard work and suffering as he has been living off the largess of the taxpayer all his adult life and off his dad's Kirk stipend before that.
As if proof were needed about how bonkers Broon is, in 'His' speech, he started havering on about the 'Parable of the Talents'. As I recall a 'talent' was a coin. In Broon's interpretation a 'talent' was about human ability I suppose like being musical. And they all just sat there and soaked this garbage up. No wonder the Kirk is losing members if none of the assembled chose to take him to task about it.
The Kirk were doing their best too to further Broon's agenda. The moderator introduced him by denouncing the 'attacks' on the 'Great Briton' by the media. Vomit inducing stuff indeed. It is the public's right and duty in a democracy to expose the pomposity and weakness of the Dear Leader - not the Kirk's duty to comment on such worldly matters.
Also this man stands for illegal wars, nukes, embryology research and so much else they are against. Many C Of S member's are also privately opposed to his absolute Unionism. The Kirk should now look to show its impartiality and balance to allow Alex Salmond to speak. I am sure Alex will be much much in touch with the Kirk's stated position on so much this agenda.
Off topic I know but nowhere else to comment and I know how much Iain loves Broon.
Just seen a very sycophantic piece by EBC Politics Scotlandshire aboot Broon's speech to the General Assembly of the C of S. Remember this individual knows little about poverty, hard work and suffering as he has been living off the largess of the taxpayer all his adult life and off his dad's Kirk stipend before that.
As if proof were needed about how bonkers Broon is, in 'His' speech, he started havering on about the 'Parable of the Talents'. As I recall a 'talent' was a coin. In Broon's interpretation a 'talent' was about human ability I suppose like being musical. And they all just sat there and soaked this garbage up. No wonder the Kirk is losing members if none of the assembled chose to take him to task about it.
The Kirk were doing their best too to further Broon's agenda. The moderator introduced him by denouncing the 'attacks' on the 'Great Briton' by the media. Vomit inducing stuff indeed. It is the public's right and duty in a democracy to expose the pomposity and weakness of the Dear Leader - not the Kirk's duty to comment on such worldly matters.
Also this man stands for illegal wars, nukes, embryology research and so much else they are against. Many C Of S member's are also privately opposed to his absolute Unionism. The Kirk should now look to show its impartiality and balance to allow Alex Salmond to speak. I am sure Alex will be much much in touch with the Kirk's stated position on so much this agenda.
Posted by: mt on 3:08pm Sun 18 May 08
art1000, Dunfermline on 2:22pm today
"Off topic I know but nowhere else to comment and I know how much Iain loves Broon."
You are not off topic as the first sentence is:-
"WHOM the gods wish to destroy they first makeQ
94;finance ministers"
I have often thought that government ministers have an "l" in the god they worship i.e. gold, go£d
art1000, Dunfermline on 2:22pm today
"Off topic I know but nowhere else to comment and I know how much Iain loves Broon."
You are not off topic as the first sentence is:-
"WHOM the gods wish to destroy they first makeQ
94;finance ministers"
I have often thought that government ministers have an "l" in the god they worship i.e. gold, go£d
Posted by: Jim, Irvine on 5:24pm Sun 18 May 08
The Front page analyses of the PFI of schools and hospitals I agree with. The UK NU LAB Govt
is entirly responsible. These contract details
of long term costs should have been revealed as part of LIBLAB Manifesto costs at last Mays
Election. The non disclosure is illegal and
Contracts must be declared nul and void. New
contracts by current SNP Government must be made and costs given against UK Government.
Those signing contracts in Scotland for LIB LAB government should be made known.
The Front page analyses of the PFI of schools and hospitals I agree with. The UK NU LAB Govt
is entirly responsible. These contract details
of long term costs should have been revealed as part of LIBLAB Manifesto costs at last Mays
Election. The non disclosure is illegal and
Contracts must be declared nul and void. New
contracts by current SNP Government must be made and costs given against UK Government.
Those signing contracts in Scotland for LIB LAB government should be made known.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 5:37pm Sun 18 May 08
Jim Irvine I totally agree.
LibLab sought to exploit these schemes electorally without giving the full facts to the electorate. They have signed dodgy contracts on the public's behalf for personal gain. What is Nicol Steven's nose smelling now?
This is really dodgy ground if these schemes have factored in an understanding that the public will be liable for the huge costs incurred.
A legal challenge by the Scottish Government to these contracts would I think be possible on the grounds of willful deception by the signatory parties should be explored. If they are going to do it they should do it quickly as the longer they allow these contracts to stand the more difficult it would be to overturn them.
A legal challenge should open up the possibility of voiding the contracts and prosecution of those involved.
Jim Irvine I totally agree.
LibLab sought to exploit these schemes electorally without giving the full facts to the electorate. They have signed dodgy contracts on the public's behalf for personal gain. What is Nicol Steven's nose smelling now?
This is really dodgy ground if these schemes have factored in an understanding that the public will be liable for the huge costs incurred.
A legal challenge by the Scottish Government to these contracts would I think be possible on the grounds of willful deception by the signatory parties should be explored. If they are going to do it they should do it quickly as the longer they allow these contracts to stand the more difficult it would be to overturn them.
A legal challenge should open up the possibility of voiding the contracts and prosecution of those involved.
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 5:38pm Sun 18 May 08
art1000, Dunfermline on 2:20pm today.
Aye, ah watched it. Nauseating, subservient platitudes of pap.
... and they wonder why there's a scarcity of bums on kirk pews these days. Ach weel, at least them god bothers have a few things in common wae Brown, they both believe in the praise of the unsubstantial or so I've been led to understand. Anyways, Brown's in dire need of pals these days and perhaps a wee bit of god bothering from himself and his pals in the Scottish establishment will result in some badly needed divine advice divine intervention for himself so..
Some folk take a lot of comfort in the hearing of voices, so they do. Yon Blair is the same.
Aye, I often wondered what them twa meant when they said that they believed in care in the community. Maybe god will give him some inspirational advice. Afterall, himself and Bliar don't appear to have benefited from their illusive convictions or mortal advisors here on earth.
...and neither have we from their administrations either, that's for sure.
.
.
art1000, Dunfermline on 2:20pm today.
Aye, ah watched it. Nauseating, subservient platitudes of pap.
... and they wonder why there's a scarcity of bums on kirk pews these days. Ach weel, at least them god bothers have a few things in common wae Brown, they both believe in the praise of the unsubstantial or so I've been led to understand. Anyways, Brown's in dire need of pals these days and perhaps a wee bit of god bothering from himself and his pals in the Scottish establishment will result in some badly needed divine advice divine intervention for himself so..
Some folk take a lot of comfort in the hearing of voices, so they do. Yon Blair is the same.
Aye, I often wondered what them twa meant when they said that they believed in care in the community. Maybe god will give him some inspirational advice. Afterall, himself and Bliar don't appear to have benefited from their illusive convictions or mortal advisors here on earth.
...and neither have we from their administrations either, that's for sure.
.
.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 6:52pm Sun 18 May 08
Brown's Governments competence!
I was reading an HMRC document on Directors National Insurance - 45 pages!
On Politics at lunchtime we had Hariet Harman talking about MPs expenses. She was telling us how normal people do not have to keep small receipts so why should MPs. She obviously has never run any sort of business!
Brown's constant tinkering and over complication has been a disaster, except for tax lawyers and accountants.
Brown's Governments competence!
I was reading an HMRC document on Directors National Insurance - 45 pages!
On Politics at lunchtime we had Hariet Harman talking about MPs expenses. She was telling us how normal people do not have to keep small receipts so why should MPs. She obviously has never run any sort of business!
Brown's constant tinkering and over complication has been a disaster, except for tax lawyers and accountants.
Posted by: ditchgazza on 7:36pm Sun 18 May 08
The liebour party are using taxpayers money thats supposed to be used to build hospitals and schools but lining the pockets of fatcats and cronies instead.
The Trades Unions are bankrolling this party.
Why.
The liebour party are using taxpayers money thats supposed to be used to build hospitals and schools but lining the pockets of fatcats and cronies instead.
The Trades Unions are bankrolling this party.
Why.
Posted by: wullie, govan on 6:16pm Mon 19 May 08
Dear art 1000
remember what the church of Scotland did in 1707. [bold]They are the only church on the planet that dumped its entire flock for its own selfish ends,[/bold] without the church of Scotland there would have been no union, they were against a union with england they knew they would be subsumed by the church of england but they were offered a way out vote for the union and you can keep your church as long as you subjigate your people, they are still at it
Dear art 1000
remember what the church of Scotland did in 1707.
They are the only church on the planet that dumped its entire flock for its own selfish ends, without the church of Scotland there would have been no union, they were against a union with england they knew they would be subsumed by the church of england but they were offered a way out vote for the union and you can keep your church as long as you subjigate your people, they are still at it
Posted by: r anderson, belfast on 2:24pm Fri 23 May 08
Why does fuel go up in price on a daily basis. Are stations and suppliers exploiting the public. Where are the green people now. It costs less to produce diesel than petrol and diesel is more environment friendly, so why is it getting pushed through the roof. Wake up Britian we are getting fleeced
Why does fuel go up in price on a daily basis. Are stations and suppliers exploiting the public. Where are the green people now. It costs less to produce diesel than petrol and diesel is more environment friendly, so why is it getting pushed through the roof. Wake up Britian we are getting fleeced
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