Damned for trying to do some good GUEST VOCALS: Osama Saeed on Islamophobia WE OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED the Scottish-Islamic Foundation this week, with warm words of encouragement and congratulation from three of the country's four main party leaders and the head of the Catholic Church for what may well be the most innovative, ambitious and forward-looking programme ever laid out by a Scottish Muslim organisation.
At the same time, we were baffled by a briefing put out by the gloriously named Centre for Social Cohesion, warning people against us. They don't have as wide a remit as their name suggests: a quick scan of their website shows almost everything is on the topic of Islam and Muslims, and very few escape their wrath.
Their "research" was in reality nothing more than a quick Google job, and a negatively screened one at that. The tactic of these kinds of hatchet jobs, which emanate from London, is to smear by association. It's a modern day McCarthyism.
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
These right-wing bodies, though, say we're lying about this, that we hate democracy. Some even say this lying is part of our faith, which really is the language of Islamophobia.
They say we're promoting a form of Islam that separates Muslims from wider society, but then they rail against the political connections we have and the influence we apparently wield. Which is it?
My own brief research on CSC found they have a neocon agenda, and their director, Douglas Murray, indeed wrote a book entitled Neoconservatism: Why We Need It. He told the Pim Fortuyn Memorial Conference in 2006: "Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board." Fortuyn was famous for saying Islam was "a backward culture" and that he was "in favour of a cold war with Islam".
The CSC shares a building with Policy Exchange, another right wing "stinktank". Last year, PE were subject of a Newsnight investigation which claimed to have uncovered evidence they had forged receipts of extremist literature they said they purchased from British mosques. Its head, Dean Godson, said he would sue the BBC. We are all still waiting.
Osama Saeed is Chief Executive of the Scottish-Islamic Foundation
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Posted by: Bansky, Glasgow on 10:38pm Sat 28 Jun 08
[quote]congratulation from three of the country's four main party leaders[/quote]
Who was missing?
congratulation from three of the country's four main party leaders
Who was missing?
Posted by: Wilhelm on 10:48pm Sat 28 Jun 08
Osama Saeed on Islamophobi
Thats a laugh. Muslims call non believers '' Kaffirs ''
Pot, kettle, black.
Osama Saeed on Islamophobi
Thats a laugh. Muslims call non believers '' Kaffirs ''
Pot, kettle, black.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 10:50pm Sat 28 Jun 08
Good luck to you Osama, no doubt the usual suspects will appear with their Caledonian Caliphate Islamophobic nonsense. I don't agree with you on faith schools, never will, but you are well intentioned.
Good luck to you Osama, no doubt the usual suspects will appear with their Caledonian Caliphate Islamophobic nonsense. I don't agree with you on faith schools, never will, but you are well intentioned.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 10:53pm Sat 28 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Wilhelm[/bold] wrote:
Osama Saeed on Islamophobi Thats a laugh. Muslims call non believers '' Kaffirs '' Pot, kettle, black.[/quote] Change the record Wullie. Do you have no other motivation in life other than to roam newspaper websites posting negative comments about people you don't include in your master race ?
Wilhelm wrote:
Osama Saeed on Islamophobi Thats a laugh. Muslims call non believers '' Kaffirs '' Pot, kettle, black.
Change the record Wullie. Do you have no other motivation in life other than to roam newspaper websites posting negative comments about people you don't include in your master race ?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 11:32pm Sat 28 Jun 08
[quote]We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.[/quote]
Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 11:33pm Sat 28 Jun 08
Mrs Odd
Do you not like free speech ?
Are you my stalker ?
Is it a love, hate relationship ?
I hate you.
You love me.
is that what its all about ?
Mrs Odd
Do you not like free speech ?
Are you my stalker ?
Is it a love, hate relationship ?
I hate you.
You love me.
is that what its all about ?
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 11:36pm Sat 28 Jun 08
Mrs ODD = Guilt ridden liberal who hates her own country. Go figure !
Mrs ODD = Guilt ridden liberal who hates her own country. Go figure !
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 11:41pm Sat 28 Jun 08
change the record Mrs Odd. Do you have no other motivation in life other than to roam newspaper websites posting negative comments about people you don't include in your liberal, political correct, view ?
change the record Mrs Odd. Do you have no other motivation in life other than to roam newspaper websites posting negative comments about people you don't include in your liberal, political correct, view ?
Posted by: subrosa on 11:53pm Sat 28 Jun 08
I'd feel more enlightened if the article had given more detail about the Scottish-Islamic Foundation.
[italic]We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.[/italic]
That's kind of contradictory or is Scotland the muslim world too? Also whose human rights? Only Muslims?
More clarification please before you slag off another organisation. Then you see we can make an informed opinion.
Thank you Osama,
I'd feel more enlightened if the article had given more detail about the Scottish-Islamic Foundation.
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
That's kind of contradictory or is Scotland the muslim world too? Also whose human rights? Only Muslims?
More clarification please before you slag off another organisation. Then you see we can make an informed opinion.
Thank you Osama,
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 11:58pm Sat 28 Jun 08
Mrs Odd
You live in a lefty liberal bubble. You think everyone's like you.
So it comes as a great shock to you to come across some one from the opposing view. You cant handle it and you go into a complete meltdown.
Am I right or am I right ?
Mrs Odd
You live in a lefty liberal bubble. You think everyone's like you.
So it comes as a great shock to you to come across some one from the opposing view. You cant handle it and you go into a complete meltdown.
Am I right or am I right ?
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 12:09am Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Wilhelm not the imposter[/bold] wrote:
Mrs Odd You live in a lefty liberal bubble. You think everyone's like you. So it comes as a great shock to you to come across some one from the opposing view. You cant handle it and you go into a complete meltdown. Am I right or am I right ?[/quote] No you are completely wrong as usual. I live not in a lefty bubble but in the heart of the South side, the biggest concentration of muslims in Scotland. That is why I object to casual Islamophobia by ignorant people who do not know what they are talking about.
You and Scunert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you. Alex Salmond was at the launch of the Scottish Islamic foundation. So was Annabelle Goldie. Muslims are part of Scottish society, and a welcome part as far as I am concerned. You may feel otherwise, perhaps its age, perhaps its ignorance. I am not that bothered, carry on with your racist comments, they are so stupid that they are a good advertisment for my point of view.
Wilhelm not the imposter wrote:
Mrs Odd You live in a lefty liberal bubble. You think everyone's like you. So it comes as a great shock to you to come across some one from the opposing view. You cant handle it and you go into a complete meltdown. Am I right or am I right ?
No you are completely wrong as usual. I live not in a lefty bubble but in the heart of the South side, the biggest concentration of muslims in Scotland. That is why I object to casual Islamophobia by ignorant people who do not know what they are talking about.
You and Scunert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you. Alex Salmond was at the launch of the Scottish Islamic foundation. So was Annabelle Goldie. Muslims are part of Scottish society, and a welcome part as far as I am concerned. You may feel otherwise, perhaps its age, perhaps its ignorance. I am not that bothered, carry on with your racist comments, they are so stupid that they are a good advertisment for my point of view.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 12:23am Sun 29 Jun 08
''You and Scunert and sub rosa are old.''
In other words we are mature and wised up to the ways of the world.
Oh yes , Iran and Saudia Arabia, models of liberal tolerance.
Why, Its just like Switzerland and Sweden !
''You and Scunert and sub rosa are old.''
In other words we are mature and wised up to the ways of the world.
Oh yes , Iran and Saudia Arabia, models of liberal tolerance.
Why, Its just like Switzerland and Sweden !
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 12:26am Sun 29 Jun 08
''I live not in a lefty bubble but in the heart of the South side,''
Im talking about your lefty liberal mindset.
Not your semi detached council house in Govan.
''I live not in a lefty bubble but in the heart of the South side,''
Im talking about your lefty liberal mindset.
Not your semi detached council house in Govan.
Posted by: subrosa on 12:44am Sun 29 Jun 08
[italic]You and Scunert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you.[/italic]
Observer I'm saddened by your above remark and it's unwarranted. Actually Observer I don't consider myself old but I do consider myself much wiser, more patient and much more knowledgeable than I was 30 years ago. Also I've possibly lived and worked with more nationalities than you think exist.
If you think 60 is old, let me whisper in your ear for a second. "When you get to 60 remember how you've just insulted me."
You and Scunert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you.
Observer I'm saddened by your above remark and it's unwarranted. Actually Observer I don't consider myself old but I do consider myself much wiser, more patient and much more knowledgeable than I was 30 years ago. Also I've possibly lived and worked with more nationalities than you think exist.
If you think 60 is old, let me whisper in your ear for a second. "When you get to 60 remember how you've just insulted me."
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 12:51am Sun 29 Jun 08
Mrs Observer is 43. She was born in 1965. She admitted it a few months ago.
What has age got to do with anything ?
Observer is AGEIST.
Mrs Observer is 43. She was born in 1965. She admitted it a few months ago.
What has age got to do with anything ?
Observer is AGEIST.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 12:54am Sun 29 Jun 08
Observer screams '' You lot are a bunch of coffin dodgers ''
Yup , Observer is ageist.
Observer screams '' You lot are a bunch of coffin dodgers ''
Yup , Observer is ageist.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 12:56am Sun 29 Jun 08
Well I'm just trying to find excuses for your collective narrow mindednesr and apparen hostility to people different from you. I admit I was struggling with the age thing my dad is 74 and a more open minded man you cant meet. So you tell me why you are so narrow minded then?
Well I'm just trying to find excuses for your collective narrow mindednesr and apparen hostility to people different from you. I admit I was struggling with the age thing my dad is 74 and a more open minded man you cant meet. So you tell me why you are so narrow minded then?
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 1:00am Sun 29 Jun 08
Mrs Odd
Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
Mrs Odd
Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:02am Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Wilhelm not the imposter[/bold] wrote:
Mrs Observer is 43. She was born in 1965. She admitted it a few months ago.
What has age got to do with anything ?
Observer is AGEIST.
[/quote] Ageist and homophobic. She is notorious for making assumptions about people:
[quote]... I object to casual Islamophobia by ignorant people who do not know what they are talking about. You and Scunnert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you.[/quote]
As far as I am aware I have never posted anything derogatory about muslims. In fact one of my nieces is a muslim. And yet Observer castigates me as islamophobic. I would appreciate it Observer if you would allow me the luxury of providing you the evidence before I am condemned.
Wilhelm not the imposter wrote:
Mrs Observer is 43. She was born in 1965. She admitted it a few months ago.
What has age got to do with anything ?
Observer is AGEIST.
Ageist and homophobic. She is notorious for making assumptions about people:
... I object to casual Islamophobia by ignorant people who do not know what they are talking about. You and Scunnert and sub rosa are old, so perhaps change is difficult for you.
As far as I am aware I have never posted anything derogatory about muslims. In fact one of my nieces is a muslim. And yet Observer castigates me as islamophobic. I would appreciate it Observer if you would allow me the luxury of providing you the evidence before I am condemned.
Posted by: subrosa on 1:09am Sun 29 Jun 08
Narrow-mindedness? Hostility? I don't think so. My first post just stated I would have liked more information about the new Foundation. Before I can give considered though then form an opinion I prefer to get the big picture. Anything worrying you about that Observer?
Perhaps you should try to refrain from calling people racist when they do not agree with your opinions. That doesn't help any argument on these boards. As for your ageist remarks, your day will come - and I doubt if you will show my toleration.
Narrow-mindedness? Hostility? I don't think so. My first post just stated I would have liked more information about the new Foundation. Before I can give considered though then form an opinion I prefer to get the big picture. Anything worrying you about that Observer?
Perhaps you should try to refrain from calling people racist when they do not agree with your opinions. That doesn't help any argument on these boards. As for your ageist remarks, your day will come - and I doubt if you will show my toleration.
Posted by: Plobotsky on 1:11am Sun 29 Jun 08
I wouldn't mind saying a few rude things about this project and about some of the people behind it who I think are not quite as innocent (links to the Muslim Brotherhood, for example) as they would like us to think.
But I'm too worried that anyone reading any criticism would associate me with bampots like Wilhelm that I have to shut up.
I wouldn't mind saying a few rude things about this project and about some of the people behind it who I think are not quite as innocent (links to the Muslim Brotherhood, for example) as they would like us to think.
But I'm too worried that anyone reading any criticism would associate me with bampots like Wilhelm that I have to shut up.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:15am Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Narrow-mindedness? Hostility? I don't think so. My first post just stated I would have liked more information about the new Foundation. Before I can give considered though then form an opinion I prefer to get the big picture. Anything worrying you about that Observer?
Perhaps you should try to refrain from calling people racist when they do not agree with your opinions. That doesn't help any argument on these boards. As for your ageist remarks, your day will come - and I doubt if you will show my toleration.[/quote] It's a knee jerk reaction she has to issues concerning race. She thinks that Scots aren't really a people and anyone who thinks otherwise is a racist. Aye - Observer is a multicultural, cosmopolitan, hater of all things Scottish - unless you agree with her notion that "Scots' is a designation of convenience that merely defines the country you happen to live in for the moment.
subrosa wrote:
Narrow-mindedness? Hostility? I don't think so. My first post just stated I would have liked more information about the new Foundation. Before I can give considered though then form an opinion I prefer to get the big picture. Anything worrying you about that Observer?
Perhaps you should try to refrain from calling people racist when they do not agree with your opinions. That doesn't help any argument on these boards. As for your ageist remarks, your day will come - and I doubt if you will show my toleration.
It's a knee jerk reaction she has to issues concerning race. She thinks that Scots aren't really a people and anyone who thinks otherwise is a racist. Aye - Observer is a multicultural, cosmopolitan, hater of all things Scottish - unless you agree with her notion that "Scots' is a designation of convenience that merely defines the country you happen to live in for the moment.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:17am Sun 29 Jun 08
Your collective posts over time speak for themselves and they speak volumes. You are all hostile to muslims. You seem to hanker after a past.
Your collective posts over time speak for themselves and they speak volumes. You are all hostile to muslims. You seem to hanker after a past.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 1:18am Sun 29 Jun 08
Observer doesnt respect old people.
If it wasnt for old people who fought against Hitler.
You Observer would be speaking German right now.
Observer doesnt respect old people.
If it wasnt for old people who fought against Hitler.
You Observer would be speaking German right now.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:26am Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
Your collective posts over time speak for themselves and they speak volumes. You are all hostile to muslims. You seem to hanker after a past. [/quote] Ah - Observer has just deciphered our code lads. Time to use the Logarithmic Spiral Encryption method we discussed in solzxe_kjh::
Observer wrote:
Your collective posts over time speak for themselves and they speak volumes. You are all hostile to muslims. You seem to hanker after a past.
Ah - Observer has just deciphered our code lads. Time to use the Logarithmic Spiral Encryption method we discussed in solzxe_kjh::
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 1:26am Sun 29 Jun 08
Plobby squeels
'' I'm too worried that anyone reading any criticism would associate me with bampots like Wilhelm that I have to shut up.''
So you haven't taken your own advice to shut it, and posted a comment telling us that you cant post a comment !
Are you Irish ?
Plobby squeels
'' I'm too worried that anyone reading any criticism would associate me with bampots like Wilhelm that I have to shut up.''
So you haven't taken your own advice to shut it, and posted a comment telling us that you cant post a comment !
Are you Irish ?
Posted by: subrosa on 1:28am Sun 29 Jun 08
[italic]Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:15am today[/italic]
Thanks for the explanation Scunnert. Fits perfectly.
[bold]Wullie[/bold] stop calling me old! I have a serious phobia about it :)
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:15am today
Thanks for the explanation Scunnert. Fits perfectly.
Wullie stop calling me old! I have a serious phobia about it :)
Posted by: Observer on 2:38am Sun 29 Jun 08
Plobotsky I hope you come back yours is a rational viewpoint. Even if I might not agree with it I would like to hear what it is.
Plobotsky I hope you come back yours is a rational viewpoint. Even if I might not agree with it I would like to hear what it is.
Posted by: Stan the Man on 3:20am Sun 29 Jun 08
"We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland".
Wasn't/isn't Osama Saeed connected to the Muslim Association of Britain which, in turn, is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Doesn't the Scottish-IslamicQ
94;Foundation interact with the Scottish branch of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign whose wesite barely disguises admiration for gangsters and murderers, reporting the recent targeting of Mu’taz Daghmush and 4 terrorist accomplices as; “An Israeli air strike on a vehicle killed five Resistance activists”?
http://www.scottishp
sc.org.uk/index.php?
option=com_content&t
ask=view&id=2573&Ite
mid=404
What they (the SPSC) omitted to tell anyone was that Daghmush, with his mobsters in the Army of Islam, was the kidnapper of the Scottish, former BBC Gaza correspondent, Alan Johnston, as well as being the killer of many Israeli and Palestinian civilians. Dughmush was regarded as one of the biggest murderers and thugs in Gaza and both Fatah and Hamas had tried to kill him several times. Rumour has it that Hamas even tipped Israel off as to Dughmush's whereabouts.
"We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland".
Wasn't/isn't Osama Saeed connected to the Muslim Association of Britain which, in turn, is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Doesn't the Scottish-IslamicQ
94;Foundation interact with the Scottish branch of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign whose wesite barely disguises admiration for gangsters and murderers, reporting the recent targeting of Mu’taz Daghmush and 4 terrorist accomplices as; “An Israeli air strike on a vehicle killed five Resistance activists”?
http://www.scottishp
sc.org.uk/index.php?
option=com_content&t
ask=view&id=2573&Ite
mid=404
What they (the SPSC) omitted to tell anyone was that Daghmush, with his mobsters in the Army of Islam, was the kidnapper of the Scottish, former BBC Gaza correspondent, Alan Johnston, as well as being the killer of many Israeli and Palestinian civilians. Dughmush was regarded as one of the biggest murderers and thugs in Gaza and both Fatah and Hamas had tried to kill him several times. Rumour has it that Hamas even tipped Israel off as to Dughmush's whereabouts.
Posted by: subrosa on 7:30am Sun 29 Jun 08
I've just had a glance at the SIP website. It appears this foundation is purely to promote Islam in Scotland. None of their 'training' involves anyone other than muslim. How, therefore, can Osama Saeed state 'the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world? If, as he suggests, home means Scotland, then why not have some Scots do the talking to your groups Mr Saeed?
More questions than answers. One particular question I would like answered is 'Where do you get your funding?'
I've just had a glance at the SIP website. It appears this foundation is purely to promote Islam in Scotland. None of their 'training' involves anyone other than muslim. How, therefore, can Osama Saeed state 'the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world? If, as he suggests, home means Scotland, then why not have some Scots do the talking to your groups Mr Saeed?
More questions than answers. One particular question I would like answered is 'Where do you get your funding?'
Posted by: Plobotsky on 9:18am Sun 29 Jun 08
Observer, assuming that all the bampots are still in their pits sleeping off their hangovers... I will venture a brief intervention.
There is no point in having a debate on Mr Saeed as too many of those who might express agreement with what I might say are appalling islamophobes and worse. Its just that any organisation wishing to stick up for Muslims in Scotland should take into account Mr Saeed's past.
My take on the consensus among Muslim Scots is that most want to be accepted as Scots and to live and prosper in peace and not have to deal with the daily discrimination and insults that confront so many of them. Most are dead against extremism, so it is a bad sign that another unaccountable group has sprung up with this chap, able as he is, at the helm. He's a very persuasive and charming communicator, which is why he will have got the job, but his involvement with MAB and the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be wished away.
I don't know whether the comment by Stan the Man is motivated by good or ill will, which is why I am so reticent about speaking out, but his points about the links to extremists, caliphatists and killers are well enough made. Those of who us who want to see an integrated Scotland should not hold back from criticising bad decisions by a group of felow citizens out of fear of causing offence to them. The problem is that by speaking out we risk being linked with eejits who have no good will towards Muslim Scots.
It would be great to see some better leadership emerging from among the Muslim community - what about some of the fantastic young Scots Muslim women taking a lead?
Observer, assuming that all the bampots are still in their pits sleeping off their hangovers... I will venture a brief intervention.
There is no point in having a debate on Mr Saeed as too many of those who might express agreement with what I might say are appalling islamophobes and worse. Its just that any organisation wishing to stick up for Muslims in Scotland should take into account Mr Saeed's past.
My take on the consensus among Muslim Scots is that most want to be accepted as Scots and to live and prosper in peace and not have to deal with the daily discrimination and insults that confront so many of them. Most are dead against extremism, so it is a bad sign that another unaccountable group has sprung up with this chap, able as he is, at the helm. He's a very persuasive and charming communicator, which is why he will have got the job, but his involvement with MAB and the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be wished away.
I don't know whether the comment by Stan the Man is motivated by good or ill will, which is why I am so reticent about speaking out, but his points about the links to extremists, caliphatists and killers are well enough made. Those of who us who want to see an integrated Scotland should not hold back from criticising bad decisions by a group of felow citizens out of fear of causing offence to them. The problem is that by speaking out we risk being linked with eejits who have no good will towards Muslim Scots.
It would be great to see some better leadership emerging from among the Muslim community - what about some of the fantastic young Scots Muslim women taking a lead?
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 10:04am Sun 29 Jun 08
Thanks for your informed opinion Plobotsky. I know that Osama has been involved with MAB but there was no other organisation of muslims for him to join. I would see the establishment of an organisation to represent Scottish muslims as being a positive step but I dont think the organisation can come out of thin air, it is almost bound to have associations with previous activists. But your point was well made and I will keep it in mind.
Thanks for your informed opinion Plobotsky. I know that Osama has been involved with MAB but there was no other organisation of muslims for him to join. I would see the establishment of an organisation to represent Scottish muslims as being a positive step but I dont think the organisation can come out of thin air, it is almost bound to have associations with previous activists. But your point was well made and I will keep it in mind.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 10:47am Sun 29 Jun 08
I suppose I qualify as " old" in my sixty second year , but I have to say I have no objection to any race , colour or religion, or those that choose to adopt this country as their own , as long as they obey the laws and do their utmost to improve and support Scotland.
I suppose I qualify as " old" in my sixty second year , but I have to say I have no objection to any race , colour or religion, or those that choose to adopt this country as their own , as long as they obey the laws and do their utmost to improve and support Scotland.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:07am Sun 29 Jun 08
Plobotsky on 9:18am today
Well considered post Plob, thanks for raising the debate
Plobotsky on 9:18am today
Well considered post Plob, thanks for raising the debate
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 11:47am Sun 29 Jun 08
[bold]We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.[/bold]
What kind of religion is it that does not allow a person to convert from Islam to another faith. I believe the penalty is death.
The recent story of the young man in Afghanistan is an example.
Not exactly the 'furtherance of human rights'
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
What kind of religion is it that does not allow a person to convert from Islam to another faith. I believe the penalty is death.
The recent story of the young man in Afghanistan is an example.
Not exactly the 'furtherance of human rights'
Posted by: Alan Henness, www.thinkhumanism.co
m on 12:13pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Osama Saeed said: "The CSC shares a building with Policy Exchange, another right wing "stinktank". Last year, PE were subject of a Newsnight investigation which claimed to have uncovered evidence they had forged receipts of extremist literature they said they purchased from British mosques. Its head, Dean Godson, said he would sue the BBC. We are all still waiting."
They share a building? Wow, they must be guilty of something, then. I have no idea about the CSC, but you'll need to do better than that, preferably using evidence, logic and reason if you want to persuade us they are hiding something.
"a quick scan of their website shows almost everything is on the topic of Islam and Muslims" That'll be much the same as your website, then? Again, some concrete evidence of their aims, etc would be far better.
Your website says that one of your Scottish-IslamicQ
94;Foundation aims is to "Facilitate understanding, cohesion and dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims". Pray tell me how separating children by the religion of their parents will achieve this? Or have you changed your mind about religiously controlled and discriminatory State-funded schools?
Another aim is to "Tackle all forms of discrimination and abuse with particular attention to religion, race, and gender". So, even if you get a State-funded Muslim school in Glasgow, the girls will not be disadvantaged? However, I note there is no mention of tackling discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation.
Osama Saeed said: "The CSC shares a building with Policy Exchange, another right wing "stinktank". Last year, PE were subject of a Newsnight investigation which claimed to have uncovered evidence they had forged receipts of extremist literature they said they purchased from British mosques. Its head, Dean Godson, said he would sue the BBC. We are all still waiting."
They share a building? Wow, they must be guilty of something, then. I have no idea about the CSC, but you'll need to do better than that, preferably using evidence, logic and reason if you want to persuade us they are hiding something.
"a quick scan of their website shows almost everything is on the topic of Islam and Muslims" That'll be much the same as your website, then? Again, some concrete evidence of their aims, etc would be far better.
Your website says that one of your Scottish-IslamicQ
94;Foundation aims is to "Facilitate understanding, cohesion and dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims". Pray tell me how separating children by the religion of their parents will achieve this? Or have you changed your mind about religiously controlled and discriminatory State-funded schools?
Another aim is to "Tackle all forms of discrimination and abuse with particular attention to religion, race, and gender". So, even if you get a State-funded Muslim school in Glasgow, the girls will not be disadvantaged? However, I note there is no mention of tackling discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 12:25pm Sun 29 Jun 08
That is where I fundamentally disagree with Osama Saeed, on the issue of faith schools. I do not see how it is possible to build a cohesive society when we educate our children on the basis of their parents choice of belief. I would say that educating children together is the best way of promoting knowledge of each other, and eliminating ignorance.
That is where I fundamentally disagree with Osama Saeed, on the issue of faith schools. I do not see how it is possible to build a cohesive society when we educate our children on the basis of their parents choice of belief. I would say that educating children together is the best way of promoting knowledge of each other, and eliminating ignorance.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:07pm Sun 29 Jun 08
After 40 years Mrs Odd says something sensible at last, break out the champagne, let the church bells ring out !
''I do not see how it is possible to build a cohesive society when we educate our children on the basis of their parents choice of belief.''
I agree with you Mrs Odd. We are going to have a fractured society with all these little tinpot ethnic groups squeeling and screeching for their little '' human '' rights.
After 40 years Mrs Odd says something sensible at last, break out the champagne, let the church bells ring out !
''I do not see how it is possible to build a cohesive society when we educate our children on the basis of their parents choice of belief.''
I agree with you Mrs Odd. We are going to have a fractured society with all these little tinpot ethnic groups squeeling and screeching for their little '' human '' rights.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:19pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Plobby says
''assuming that all the bampots are still in their pits sleeping off their hangovers... I will venture a brief intervention. ''
Listen kid. This site is anonymous. Do you think Im going to find out where you live, round up the villagers, have a torch light procession to your council house in the Gorbals and then burn it down. Dont be a halfwit all your life son.
Plobby says
''assuming that all the bampots are still in their pits sleeping off their hangovers... I will venture a brief intervention. ''
Listen kid. This site is anonymous. Do you think Im going to find out where you live, round up the villagers, have a torch light procession to your council house in the Gorbals and then burn it down. Dont be a halfwit all your life son.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:21pm Sun 29 Jun 08
I have no more regard for Islam than I do for any other religion Wilhelm. You will see from the article that the RC Church was also present at the launch of the SIF, and indeed is welcoming them as allies in the debate over faith based education. And Alex Salmond appears to agree with them. I oppose that point of view completely, however as long as we have a seperate RC education system then it is hard to see how state funding for muslim schools can be denied.
I have no more regard for Islam than I do for any other religion Wilhelm. You will see from the article that the RC Church was also present at the launch of the SIF, and indeed is welcoming them as allies in the debate over faith based education. And Alex Salmond appears to agree with them. I oppose that point of view completely, however as long as we have a seperate RC education system then it is hard to see how state funding for muslim schools can be denied.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:26pm Sun 29 Jun 08
You are rather out of date Wilhelm, there are no Council houses in Glasgow any more and the new Gorbals is something of a des res.
You are rather out of date Wilhelm, there are no Council houses in Glasgow any more and the new Gorbals is something of a des res.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:39pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
You are rather out of date Wilhelm, there are no Council houses in Glasgow any more and the new Gorbals is something of a des res. [/quote] Yeah , the Gorbals is just like Monte Carlo. Multi million dollar yachts are going up and down the clyde. Cat walk models are sunbathing on the water front next to the gas and sewege works !
Get real, sweetheart.
Have you been on a delusion course at college ?
Observer wrote:
You are rather out of date Wilhelm, there are no Council houses in Glasgow any more and the new Gorbals is something of a des res.
Yeah , the Gorbals is just like Monte Carlo. Multi million dollar yachts are going up and down the clyde. Cat walk models are sunbathing on the water front next to the gas and sewege works !
Get real, sweetheart.
Have you been on a delusion course at college ?
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 1:45pm Sun 29 Jun 08
You keep trying Wilhelm , in fact you are very trying, but you need to raise your game. You don't seem to have the same acidity that you had when you were Wullie. It's as if some of the poison has been drawn out of you, and you are just going through the motions.
You keep trying Wilhelm , in fact you are very trying, but you need to raise your game. You don't seem to have the same acidity that you had when you were Wullie. It's as if some of the poison has been drawn out of you, and you are just going through the motions.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:53pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Mrs Odd I note you havent answered these questions.
Are they too dificult for you ?
just answer yes or no .
Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
Mrs Odd I note you havent answered these questions.
Are they too dificult for you ?
just answer yes or no .
Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:59pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Irish comedian Daria O'brian called Glasgow , Belfast lite.
Thats pretty damming when an Irishman slags off Glasgow, Is it not ?
Irish comedian Daria O'brian called Glasgow , Belfast lite.
Thats pretty damming when an Irishman slags off Glasgow, Is it not ?
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 2:20pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Wilhelm[/bold] wrote:
Mrs Odd I note you havent answered these questions. Are they too dificult for you ? just answer yes or no . Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ? Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ? Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ? [/quote] [quote]Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?[/quote]
No of course I am not, don't be ridiculous. You are painting a picture of what life is like in Saudi Arabia, not what it is like in Scotland.
These are completely different societies, but you are taking the Saudi Arabian example and applying it to muslims who live here. That is Islamophobia.
Wilhelm wrote:
Mrs Odd I note you havent answered these questions. Are they too dificult for you ? just answer yes or no . Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ? Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ? Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
Are you all for muslim arranged forced marriages ?
Are you in favour of muslim woman walking 5 steps behind their husbands ?
Are you in favour of the burqua, the pillar box dress ?
No of course I am not, don't be ridiculous. You are painting a picture of what life is like in Saudi Arabia, not what it is like in Scotland.
These are completely different societies, but you are taking the Saudi Arabian example and applying it to muslims who live here. That is Islamophobia.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 2:44pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Mrs Odd says
''No of course I am not''
Then you are an islamophobe.
Mrs Odd says
''These are completely different societies''
Oh you mean different tribes !! I though you said last week that we are all the same. Mrs Odd hoist by her own petard ! Hilarious.
Mrs Odd says
''No of course I am not''
Then you are an islamophobe.
Mrs Odd says
''These are completely different societies''
Oh you mean different tribes !! I though you said last week that we are all the same. Mrs Odd hoist by her own petard ! Hilarious.
Posted by: Stu, Edinburgh on 3:50pm Sun 29 Jun 08
I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......
I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 4:03pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Stu[/bold] wrote:
I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......[/quote] What ghettos would that be please tell us where they are. What a typical ignoramus comment to make. You dont think there should be muslims in Scotland do you think there shouldn't be any blacks or Irish to.
You are an ambarrassment people like you should get an education before you spout off.
Stu wrote:
I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......
What ghettos would that be please tell us where they are. What a typical ignoramus comment to make. You dont think there should be muslims in Scotland do you think there shouldn't be any blacks or Irish to.
You are an ambarrassment people like you should get an education before you spout off.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 4:06pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?[/quote]
Why does he need woad ? What are your views on burning witches and heretics ? All of whch was done by Christians, you are another one who needs an education.
Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?
Why does he need woad ? What are your views on burning witches and heretics ? All of whch was done by Christians, you are another one who needs an education.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 4:09pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]I've just had a glance at the SIP website. It appears this foundation is purely to promote Islam in Scotland. None of their 'training' involves anyone other than muslim. How, therefore, can Osama Saeed state 'the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world? If, as he suggests, home means Scotland, then why not have some Scots do the talking to your groups Mr Saeed?
More questions than answers. One particular question I would like answered is 'Where do you get your funding?'[/quote]
What business of yours is it where they get their funding ? Why do you think that muslims cannot be Scottish ? Or vice versa.
I've just had a glance at the SIP website. It appears this foundation is purely to promote Islam in Scotland. None of their 'training' involves anyone other than muslim. How, therefore, can Osama Saeed state 'the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world? If, as he suggests, home means Scotland, then why not have some Scots do the talking to your groups Mr Saeed?
More questions than answers. One particular question I would like answered is 'Where do you get your funding?'
What business of yours is it where they get their funding ? Why do you think that muslims cannot be Scottish ? Or vice versa.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 4:13pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]I'd feel more enlightened if the article had given more detail about the Scottish-Islamic Foundation.
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
That's kind of contradictory or is Scotland the muslim world too? Also whose human rights? Only Muslims?
More clarification please before you slag off another organisation. Then you see we can make an informed opinion.
Thank you Osama,[/quote]
What is contradictory about that statement ? Nothing unless you distinguish between Scots and muslims as if one cant be the other.
I'd feel more enlightened if the article had given more detail about the Scottish-Islamic Foundation.
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
That's kind of contradictory or is Scotland the muslim world too? Also whose human rights? Only Muslims?
More clarification please before you slag off another organisation. Then you see we can make an informed opinion.
Thank you Osama,
What is contradictory about that statement ? Nothing unless you distinguish between Scots and muslims as if one cant be the other.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 4:18pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Lola[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?[/quote]
Why does he need woad ? What are your views on burning witches and heretics ? All of whch was done by Christians, you are another one who needs an education. [/quote] Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.
Lola wrote:
Will ye need some woad Mr. Saeed? BTW - what's your views on apostasy?
Why does he need woad ? What are your views on burning witches and heretics ? All of whch was done by Christians, you are another one who needs an education.
Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 4:28pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.[/quote]
What cry for freedom ? Were you drunk when you made your indecipherable comment. Plobotsky thought you were and I think I agree with him.
Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.
What cry for freedom ? Were you drunk when you made your indecipherable comment. Plobotsky thought you were and I think I agree with him.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 4:30pm Sun 29 Jun 08
I note that some posters have concerns about M. Saeed and his organization having links to other, less savoury, organizations. I would recommend young muslims join Scottish organizations that have no links to organized religion. Get involved with Scots of all persuasions rather that remain isolated. No doubt this will initially require some guts and determination, but don't be put off. Integration will not come by having segregated "clubs".
I note that some posters have concerns about M. Saeed and his organization having links to other, less savoury, organizations. I would recommend young muslims join Scottish organizations that have no links to organized religion. Get involved with Scots of all persuasions rather that remain isolated. No doubt this will initially require some guts and determination, but don't be put off. Integration will not come by having segregated "clubs".
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 4:38pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Lola[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.[/quote]
What cry for freedom ? Were you drunk when you made your indecipherable comment. Plobotsky thought you were and I think I agree with him. [/quote] You really are a piece of work. You and Observer should get along well together. Are you "Carnwarth" posting under an alternate moniker? If you were honest you would have referenced my full post which was a response to:
[quote][bold]We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are ... FREEDOM at home and in the Muslim world.[/bold][/quote]
You have attempted to paint me as a christian bigot and now a drunk. You are just an ignorant troll and will be ignored in future.
Lola wrote:
Lola take a chill pill hen. The offer of woad was in response to and furtherance of Mr. Saeed's cry of "FREEDOM". It was a Braveheart moment - I guess you had to be there.
What cry for freedom ? Were you drunk when you made your indecipherable comment. Plobotsky thought you were and I think I agree with him.
You really are a piece of work. You and Observer should get along well together. Are you "Carnwarth" posting under an alternate moniker? If you were honest you would have referenced my full post which was a response to:
We're a new body with no links to anyone outside of Scotland. Among our objectives are ... FREEDOM at home and in the Muslim world.
You have attempted to paint me as a christian bigot and now a drunk. You are just an ignorant troll and will be ignored in future.
Posted by: wilhelm not the imposter on 4:39pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Wasnt '' Lola '' the character that Marlene Dietrich played in the 1930 film '' The Blue Angel '' ?
Wasnt '' Lola '' the character that Marlene Dietrich played in the 1930 film '' The Blue Angel '' ?
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 5:28pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]wilhelm not the imposter[/bold] wrote:
Wasnt '' Lola '' the character that Marlene Dietrich played in the 1930 film '' The Blue Angel '' ?[/quote] I thought Lola was the transexual hero(ine) of the song of the same name by the Kinks?
I must say the quality of debate on this thread is abominable. A bunch of Yaboos mostly with nothing to contribute but their bile.
wilhelm not the imposter wrote:
Wasnt '' Lola '' the character that Marlene Dietrich played in the 1930 film '' The Blue Angel '' ?
I thought Lola was the transexual hero(ine) of the song of the same name by the Kinks?
I must say the quality of debate on this thread is abominable. A bunch of Yaboos mostly with nothing to contribute but their bile.
Posted by: Stu, Edinburgh on 5:34pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Lola[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Stu[/bold] wrote: I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......[/quote] What ghettos would that be please tell us where they are. What a typical ignoramus comment to make. You dont think there should be muslims in Scotland do you think there shouldn't be any blacks or Irish to. You are an ambarrassment people like you should get an education before you spout off. [/quote] I'm sorry, was spelling not complulsary at your school? I'm studying for a PHD in economics, when will imbecillic liberals like you realise that such beliefs transcend all education levels and all other social demographs!
Lola wrote:
Stu wrote: I can quite personally say that Muslims are not a 'welcome' addition to our society, and their persistence in living together in 'ghettos' is another consequence which I do not welcome. Perhaps Mr Saaed could remind us of his views on sharia law......
What ghettos would that be please tell us where they are. What a typical ignoramus comment to make. You dont think there should be muslims in Scotland do you think there shouldn't be any blacks or Irish to. You are an ambarrassment people like you should get an education before you spout off.
I'm sorry, was spelling not complulsary at your school? I'm studying for a PHD in economics, when will imbecillic liberals like you realise that such beliefs transcend all education levels and all other social demographs!
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 5:44pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Lola says '' What ghettos ''
The north of England towns like Bradford and Leister
Lola says '' What ghettos ''
The north of England towns like Bradford and Leister
Posted by: Lola on 5:58pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Your woad commemt is still indecipherable you cant really compare the plight of the irapis and the palestinians with a daft film. Unless you were drunk. I have met a few doctors of philosophy but none so ignorant as stu so i have to discount your claim.
Your woad commemt is still indecipherable you cant really compare the plight of the irapis and the palestinians with a daft film. Unless you were drunk. I have met a few doctors of philosophy but none so ignorant as stu so i have to discount your claim.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 6:11pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Muslims do not choose to live in ghettos any more than any other minority group. Why are muslims not allowed to form an association in scunnerts world? He wants them to join the boys brigade. Then presumably they can be just like white people.
Muslims do not choose to live in ghettos any more than any other minority group. Why are muslims not allowed to form an association in scunnerts world? He wants them to join the boys brigade. Then presumably they can be just like white people.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 6:16pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Lulu says He wants them to join the boys brigade
Then again they could join Al Queda and kill people !
Lulu says He wants them to join the boys brigade
Then again they could join Al Queda and kill people !
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 6:28pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Lola?
http://farm1.static.
flickr.com/187/38510
6448_5e47ffd57f.jpg?
v=1175473528
Lola?
http://farm1.static.
flickr.com/187/38510
6448_5e47ffd57f.jpg?
v=1175473528
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 6:30pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Or this?
http://i124.photobuc
ket.com/albums/p34/R
ogueSA27/transvestit
e.jpg
Or this?
http://i124.photobuc
ket.com/albums/p34/R
ogueSA27/transvestit
e.jpg
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 6:56pm Sun 29 Jun 08
How old are you ? My kids are too old for that and I got the impression earlier on the thread that you were practically in your dotage.
Still I suppose you might be drunk again.
How old are you ? My kids are too old for that and I got the impression earlier on the thread that you were practically in your dotage.
Still I suppose you might be drunk again.
Posted by: Alic Murray on 7:01pm Sun 29 Jun 08
This gentleman is a danger to non-muslims and female muslims alike. The SNP courting him and others with his views are wrong.
This gentleman is a danger to non-muslims and female muslims alike. The SNP courting him and others with his views are wrong.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 7:06pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Lulu
We may be drunk, but in the morning we will be sober.
You are an ugly old bag and in the morning you will still be ugly.
Lulu
We may be drunk, but in the morning we will be sober.
You are an ugly old bag and in the morning you will still be ugly.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 7:09pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Scunnert
The ecentric Mrs Odd is a walking, talking, train wreck.
Scunnert
The ecentric Mrs Odd is a walking, talking, train wreck.
Posted by: arkletten, Edinburgh on 7:13pm Sun 29 Jun 08
What fools you take us for, Osama! On Thursday you said you had no links with the Muslim Brotherhood (Herald). On Friday you admitted that Kemal Helbawy, one of your SIF teachers, whom you'd invited, did in fact have links with the MB (Daily Mail). However, you'd 'no idea' about what the Muslim Brotherhood was actually about, and as for their views 'you'd have to ask them'! Oh the souciance! This is typical Islamist evasion. This is what they do - shift ground; create front organisations like SIF.
The MB being the most well-established Islamist organisation in the world, with a global presence and millions of followers, umpteen linked websites, copious tracts and volumes, but you, an Islamist, who are familiar with Islamist ideas, and wrote in the Guardian in 2005 that you wanted to bring back the Caliphate (THE key MB proposal) had NO IDEA what the MB was all about and had no links with it!
Pish, man!
And as for you 'doing some good'. Yes, I do believe you when you say you do not espouse terrorism and wish to educate the youth away from that; for that is also the main Muslim Brotherhood line (except for Hamas, against Jews. Jews are still fair cop for blowing up).
However MB and Al-Quaeda share exactly the same goal, the global dominance of Islam and a world Islamic government headed by a Caliph under which we kufr will know our place as second class citizens. And you RAIL against imperialism! Oh the hypocrisy!
Folks, the reason MB hates Al Quaeda is simply a difference in strategy; because MB, being a bit brainier on the whole that the Al Quaeda boys, sees terrorism as actually making that goal more unlikely, since it might just cause the kufr to wake up and see the real totalitarian nature of Islamism.
Thus your 'training' is aimed at convincing angry young Muslims to go for the gradualist MB route. You, however, have no interest whatsoever in integration but want segragation; creating a state within a state, in the Islamic Caliphate of Pollokshields.
We are SICK, Osama, sick, of sectarianism in Scotland and don't want our fellow Muslim citizens to form a sectarian wedge against the rest of us! Seen it, done it, don't want it!
Which is of course why you want a state funded Islamic school to teach Islamic religion and law (Herald). A slip which you forced the Herald to retract (Friday).
If you truly wanted to do some good you would not push for an Islamic school. Or a separate Muslim police force. Or a Muslim this or Muslim that.
What fools you take us for, Osama! On Thursday you said you had no links with the Muslim Brotherhood (Herald). On Friday you admitted that Kemal Helbawy, one of your SIF teachers, whom you'd invited, did in fact have links with the MB (Daily Mail). However, you'd 'no idea' about what the Muslim Brotherhood was actually about, and as for their views 'you'd have to ask them'! Oh the souciance! This is typical Islamist evasion. This is what they do - shift ground; create front organisations like SIF.
The MB being the most well-established Islamist organisation in the world, with a global presence and millions of followers, umpteen linked websites, copious tracts and volumes, but you, an Islamist, who are familiar with Islamist ideas, and wrote in the Guardian in 2005 that you wanted to bring back the Caliphate (THE key MB proposal) had NO IDEA what the MB was all about and had no links with it!
Pish, man!
And as for you 'doing some good'. Yes, I do believe you when you say you do not espouse terrorism and wish to educate the youth away from that; for that is also the main Muslim Brotherhood line (except for Hamas, against Jews. Jews are still fair cop for blowing up).
However MB and Al-Quaeda share exactly the same goal, the global dominance of Islam and a world Islamic government headed by a Caliph under which we kufr will know our place as second class citizens. And you RAIL against imperialism! Oh the hypocrisy!
Folks, the reason MB hates Al Quaeda is simply a difference in strategy; because MB, being a bit brainier on the whole that the Al Quaeda boys, sees terrorism as actually making that goal more unlikely, since it might just cause the kufr to wake up and see the real totalitarian nature of Islamism.
Thus your 'training' is aimed at convincing angry young Muslims to go for the gradualist MB route. You, however, have no interest whatsoever in integration but want segragation; creating a state within a state, in the Islamic Caliphate of Pollokshields.
We are SICK, Osama, sick, of sectarianism in Scotland and don't want our fellow Muslim citizens to form a sectarian wedge against the rest of us! Seen it, done it, don't want it!
Which is of course why you want a state funded Islamic school to teach Islamic religion and law (Herald). A slip which you forced the Herald to retract (Friday).
If you truly wanted to do some good you would not push for an Islamic school. Or a separate Muslim police force. Or a Muslim this or Muslim that.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 7:14pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]Explaining Islam
Date: 27th June 2008
Location: Stirlingshire
A unique weekend residential equipping Scottish Muslims with knowledge and skills needed to clarify the basics of their way of life and increase understanding between communities.
Training by Fadel Soliman (Egypt/USA)
Friday 27th - Sunday 29th June 2008
Auchengillan International Centre, Stirlingshire
~ Interactive presentations
~ Spiritual and outdoor activities in beautiful, peaceful surroundings
~ Participants will receive a certificate in recognition of completing two intensive levels of the Bridges training course.
~ Activities include air rifle shooting, archery, fencing and abseiling. Choices allocated on first-come-first-ser
ved basis to those reistered
£30 (students £25) - inclusive of course, accommodation, activities and food
Brothers and sisters welcome
For more details contact: mlt@scottishislamic.
org / 07800-549220[/quote]
http://scottishislam
ic.org/
Too bad I missed this - could've been fun. Especially the military training part.
Explaining Islam
Date: 27th June 2008
Location: Stirlingshire
A unique weekend residential equipping Scottish Muslims with knowledge and skills needed to clarify the basics of their way of life and increase understanding between communities.
Training by Fadel Soliman (Egypt/USA)
Friday 27th - Sunday 29th June 2008
Auchengillan International Centre, Stirlingshire
~ Interactive presentations
~ Spiritual and outdoor activities in beautiful, peaceful surroundings
~ Participants will receive a certificate in recognition of completing two intensive levels of the Bridges training course.
~ Activities include air rifle shooting, archery, fencing and abseiling. Choices allocated on first-come-first-ser
ved basis to those reistered
£30 (students £25) - inclusive of course, accommodation, activities and food
Brothers and sisters welcome
For more details contact: mlt@scottishislamic.
org / 07800-549220
http://scottishislam
ic.org/
Too bad I missed this - could've been fun. Especially the military training part.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 7:18pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Wilhelm not the imposter[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert
The ecentric Mrs Odd is a walking, talking, train wreck.[/quote] Aye - her debating skills have deteriorated to mud slinging and name calling. Too bad - she once showed promise. Now, alas, she is fast becoming just another troll.
Wilhelm not the imposter wrote:
Scunnert
The ecentric Mrs Odd is a walking, talking, train wreck.
Aye - her debating skills have deteriorated to mud slinging and name calling. Too bad - she once showed promise. Now, alas, she is fast becoming just another troll.
Posted by: Wilhelm not the imposter on 7:26pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Arkletten
Thanks for that wise comment.
But folk like '' Observer '' is an islamofacist lover.
Arkletten
Thanks for that wise comment.
But folk like '' Observer '' is an islamofacist lover.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 7:59pm Sun 29 Jun 08
The irony of an islamophobic rant on an article about islamophobia is obviously lost on the idiots wilhelm and scunnert who occupy themselves calling people names instead. What a pair of clowns.
The irony of an islamophobic rant on an article about islamophobia is obviously lost on the idiots wilhelm and scunnert who occupy themselves calling people names instead. What a pair of clowns.
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 8:02pm Sun 29 Jun 08
The irony of an islamophobic rant on an article about islamophobia is obviously lost on the idiots wilhelm and scunnert who occupy themselves calling people names instead. What a pair of clowns.
The irony of an islamophobic rant on an article about islamophobia is obviously lost on the idiots wilhelm and scunnert who occupy themselves calling people names instead. What a pair of clowns.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 8:04pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Lulu
You spell names Wilhem and Scunnert with capital letters at the beginning !
Lulu
You spell names Wilhem and Scunnert with capital letters at the beginning !
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:12pm Sun 29 Jun 08
The irony of a labour troll defending Islam in Scotland while her party wages an illegal war on muslim women and children in Iraq is apparently lost in the dimness of her mind.
BTP stopping and searching muslim youth at "random", and forty two day detention without charge targeting muslims - with friends like this who needs enemies?
Perhaps she would like to send her new friends on a wee holiday to Dungavel?
The irony of a labour troll defending Islam in Scotland while her party wages an illegal war on muslim women and children in Iraq is apparently lost in the dimness of her mind.
BTP stopping and searching muslim youth at "random", and forty two day detention without charge targeting muslims - with friends like this who needs enemies?
Perhaps she would like to send her new friends on a wee holiday to Dungavel?
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 8:26pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Are you schizophrenic or drunk or both scunnert? You make anti islam comments advising young muslims to ignore their heritage and then you claim sympathy with muslims in Iraq. You sir are nuts.
Are you schizophrenic or drunk or both scunnert? You make anti islam comments advising young muslims to ignore their heritage and then you claim sympathy with muslims in Iraq. You sir are nuts.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:30pm Sun 29 Jun 08
My dear Wilhelm, I know you will agree with me when I say that it is a sad day for Scotland when one can not find an honest opponent willing to debate issues without resorting to smear and innuendo. What are honest Scots to do? Sad - very sad.
However, I am reassured to know that you will be tireless in your defense of freedom of speech for all our citizens, and will not be dismayed or put off by the outrageous remarks and atrocious behaviour of the intellectually deficient on these threads.
Best Regards - Scunnert
My dear Wilhelm, I know you will agree with me when I say that it is a sad day for Scotland when one can not find an honest opponent willing to debate issues without resorting to smear and innuendo. What are honest Scots to do? Sad - very sad.
However, I am reassured to know that you will be tireless in your defense of freedom of speech for all our citizens, and will not be dismayed or put off by the outrageous remarks and atrocious behaviour of the intellectually deficient on these threads.
Best Regards - Scunnert
Posted by: Lola on 8:41pm Sun 29 Jun 08
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.
Posted by: Lola on 8:45pm Sun 29 Jun 08
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:51pm Sun 29 Jun 08
My dear Wilhelm, I have just came across this truly shocking article and felt it necessary to bring it to your attention:
[quote]More Islamophobic remarks from Labour MP
11/02/2008
In a sensationalist article in the Sunday Times, Labour Minister Phil Woolas described many Muslims, many of his own constituents, as "inbreds". He claims that amongst Muslims "a lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability."
Woolas has form in this department. In October 2006 he called for the sacking of Aishah Azmi for wearing the veil at school whilst working as a teaching assistant. He claimed that because Ms Azmi would only remove her veil in front of women, not men, she was guilty of sexual discrimination.
Oliur Rahman, chair of Respect and GLA list candidate in the forthcoming May elections, said "Phil Woolas is known to make unwarranted and racist comments. He angers Muslims and claims to know and understand our community, but he doesn't. He should keep his mouth shut about issues he knows nothing about."
Woolas has a problem with Muslims, and there are many Muslims in his constituency. Perhaps they would be best advised not to elect him again. Respect candidates in council and Greater London Assembly elections across the country are proud to stand against Islamophobia and refuse to go along with the mainstream in demonising a religion for populist appeal.[/quote]
http://www.respectco
alition.org/?ite=176
7
My dear Wilhelm, I have just came across this truly shocking article and felt it necessary to bring it to your attention:
More Islamophobic remarks from Labour MP
11/02/2008
In a sensationalist article in the Sunday Times, Labour Minister Phil Woolas described many Muslims, many of his own constituents, as "inbreds". He claims that amongst Muslims "a lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability."
Woolas has form in this department. In October 2006 he called for the sacking of Aishah Azmi for wearing the veil at school whilst working as a teaching assistant. He claimed that because Ms Azmi would only remove her veil in front of women, not men, she was guilty of sexual discrimination.
Oliur Rahman, chair of Respect and GLA list candidate in the forthcoming May elections, said "Phil Woolas is known to make unwarranted and racist comments. He angers Muslims and claims to know and understand our community, but he doesn't. He should keep his mouth shut about issues he knows nothing about."
Woolas has a problem with Muslims, and there are many Muslims in his constituency. Perhaps they would be best advised not to elect him again. Respect candidates in council and Greater London Assembly elections across the country are proud to stand against Islamophobia and refuse to go along with the mainstream in demonising a religion for populist appeal.
http://www.respectco
alition.org/?ite=176
7
Posted by: What's it all about? on 8:52pm Sun 29 Jun 08
Who on earth needs this 'foundation'? The muslims who've been here for decades and should now have integrated easily jsut like every other group? The muslim woman who've been here for decades and are still denied the chance to learn English? The younger muslims who just want to make their way in the world and don't want to define themselves by their religion 24 hours a day?
Maybe it's to benefit Osmama Saeed(of the SNP) in his political ambitions? Maybe so he can claim some sort of legitimacy as a spokesman for Muslims in Scotland. No one needs stuff like this. This is the 21st century
Who on earth needs this 'foundation'? The muslims who've been here for decades and should now have integrated easily jsut like every other group? The muslim woman who've been here for decades and are still denied the chance to learn English? The younger muslims who just want to make their way in the world and don't want to define themselves by their religion 24 hours a day?
Maybe it's to benefit Osmama Saeed(of the SNP) in his political ambitions? Maybe so he can claim some sort of legitimacy as a spokesman for Muslims in Scotland. No one needs stuff like this. This is the 21st century
Posted by: Wilhelm on 8:52pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Lola[/bold] wrote:
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.[/quote] Lulu
If you said that in Iran you would be stoned.
Pass the next rock please !
Lola wrote:
It is because of vile islamophobes like you and wilhelm that the government are introducing 42 day detention. You are their propogandists creating an unwarranted fear of islam. You also personally appear to have the manners and debating skills of a zoo animal.
Lulu
If you said that in Iran you would be stoned.
Pass the next rock please !
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:55pm Sun 29 Jun 08
And another - truly shocking:
[quote]Islamaphobia and Homophobia - What are the Labour Party playing at?
12.17.13pm BST (GMT +0100) Wed 18th Oct 2006
Are the Labour Party trying to woo the BNP vote or are they just becoming even more intolerant and authoritarian (if possible!). There is an increasing move to legal Islamaphobia and Homophobia - the Government could well be guilty of inciting racial hatred with some of the recent outbursts.[/quote]
http://www.colin-ros
s.org.uk/news/000905
/islamaphobia_and_ho
mophobia__what_are_t
he_labour_party_play
ing_at.html
And another - truly shocking:
Islamaphobia and Homophobia - What are the Labour Party playing at?
12.17.13pm BST (GMT +0100) Wed 18th Oct 2006
Are the Labour Party trying to woo the BNP vote or are they just becoming even more intolerant and authoritarian (if possible!). There is an increasing move to legal Islamaphobia and Homophobia - the Government could well be guilty of inciting racial hatred with some of the recent outbursts.
http://www.colin-ros
s.org.uk/news/000905
/islamaphobia_and_ho
mophobia__what_are_t
he_labour_party_play
ing_at.html
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 9:04pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote][bold]What's it all about?[/bold] wrote:
Who on earth needs this 'foundation'? The muslims who've been here for decades and should now have integrated easily jsut like every other group? The muslim woman who've been here for decades and are still denied the chance to learn English? The younger muslims who just want to make their way in the world and don't want to define themselves by their religion 24 hours a day?
Maybe it's to benefit Osmama Saeed(of the SNP) in his political ambitions? Maybe so he can claim some sort of legitimacy as a spokesman for Muslims in Scotland. No one needs stuff like this. This is the 21st century
[/quote] I must say I agree with much of what you say here. Religion is really a private matter and has no place in civic society. Young folks of Asian origin should be encouraged to integrate into Scots society rather than isolating themselves in restrictive and exclusive groupings.
What's it all about? wrote:
Who on earth needs this 'foundation'? The muslims who've been here for decades and should now have integrated easily jsut like every other group? The muslim woman who've been here for decades and are still denied the chance to learn English? The younger muslims who just want to make their way in the world and don't want to define themselves by their religion 24 hours a day?
Maybe it's to benefit Osmama Saeed(of the SNP) in his political ambitions? Maybe so he can claim some sort of legitimacy as a spokesman for Muslims in Scotland. No one needs stuff like this. This is the 21st century
I must say I agree with much of what you say here. Religion is really a private matter and has no place in civic society. Young folks of Asian origin should be encouraged to integrate into Scots society rather than isolating themselves in restrictive and exclusive groupings.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 9:10pm Sun 29 Jun 08
I wonder where that paragon of ageist and homophobic intolerance has gone?
I wonder where that paragon of ageist and homophobic intolerance has gone?
Posted by: Lola, Embra on 9:18pm Sun 29 Jun 08
[quote]Their "research" was in reality nothing more than a quick Google job, and a negatively screened one at that. The tactic of these kinds of hatchet jobs, which emanate from London, is to smear by association. It's a modern day McCarthyism[/quote]
You seem pretty good at this to Scunnert. Perhaps you should apply for a job with this right wing organisation I am sure you would feel at home.
[quote]Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.[/quote]
You don't even want muslims to be muslims scunnert you want them to be uncle tom muslims and integrate into society to be just like everyone else. I would say that was an attack on their freedom to be who they are.
[quote]They say we're promoting a form of Islam that separates Muslims from wider society, but then they rail against the political connections we have and the influence we apparently wield. Which is it?[/quote]
A good question scunnert won't have the answer to
[quote]Damned for trying to do some good[/quote]
And that is exactly what has happened on this discussion. The mention of Islam and open the floodgates to ignorant islamophobes like Scunnert and Wilhelm.
[quote]Good luck to you Osama, no doubt the usual suspects will appear with their Caledonian Caliphate Islamophobic nonsense.[/quote]
It was a nice thought Observor but with ignoramuses like Scunnert and Wilhelm Osama saeed will never get a fair hearing.
Their "research" was in reality nothing more than a quick Google job, and a negatively screened one at that. The tactic of these kinds of hatchet jobs, which emanate from London, is to smear by association. It's a modern day McCarthyism
You seem pretty good at this to Scunnert. Perhaps you should apply for a job with this right wing organisation I am sure you would feel at home.
Among our objectives are the furtherance of human rights and freedom at home and in the Muslim world.
You don't even want muslims to be muslims scunnert you want them to be uncle tom muslims and integrate into society to be just like everyone else. I would say that was
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