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August 22, 2008 Est 1999 Scotland's award-winning independent newspaper
Is this Brown’s real summer of discontent?
James Cusick on Brown's D-Day

CRISIS? WHAT CRISIS? VERY late on Thursday night or very early on Friday morning, once the votes have been counted in Glasgow East, Gordon Brown - whether he narrowly avoids defeat or whether Alex Salmond's forecast "earthquake" is already showing up on the Nationalists' self-righteous scale -will define his remaining time in office. He will have his "January 10", the day in 1979 when the prime minister Jim Callaghan flew back to London from Barbados and, faced with a country being torn to shreds by industrial relations chaos, food shortages, panic buying and a road haulage strike that was making everything scarce, held a press conference at Heathrow airport.

Callaghan was near exhaustion. He had been attending a summit on the Caribbean island of Guadeloupe, involving private talks with the US president Jimmy Carter which centred on the future of Britain's nuclear deterrent. Callaghan knew about the road haulage strike that had begun in Scotland just before he left. He'd been told about the escalation of the industrial action, but out of sight, out of mind, Callaghan was preoccupied with Pershing and Tomahawk missiles and hadn't switched back to British winter time and the discontent at home.

Asked at Heathrow about the effects of the industrial action, Callaghan looked like a man in denial. He said "I don't think other people in the world share the view that there is a mounting crisis." The Sun newspaper, already eager for the Thatcher years to begin, ran the headline "Crisis? What crisis?"

Self-denial, head in the sand, out of touch? It doesn't really matter what the analysis was. The headline and its wider message haunted Callaghan's reputation for decades and helped destroy what was already a decaying administration. For the remainder of January and February 1979 the chaos surrounding Number 10 got steadily worse.

If March 28 and the lost vote of confidence in the Commons was Callaghan's final failure, it was January 10 that started the process of downfall.

Denial is a poor defence at the best of times; denial in politics is a cardinal error. This Friday, if Brown and his senior ministers deny there is a real problem and say this after either crawling over the winning line having haemorrhaged votes, or portraying a slender SNP victory as no more than a routine mid-term grievance, then Brown will quickly go the same way as Sunny Jim.

Watching a 13,507 majority shrink or evaporate when a less than impressive SNP candidate is pitted against a seasoned and high-profile Labour opponent requires an explanation from Labour's senior ranks that so far has been absent in all the other crises Brown has endured over the past 12 months. The harsh reality is that Brown has won nothing since he entered Number 10, and if Glasgow East is the contest he just couldn't lose, where does that leave his electability, his credibility, and Labour's collective sanity if the Glasgow result is shrugged off as something that's to be survived as the party dives for cover into the summer recess?

Win by 500 votes, but lose 13,000, and there might be temptation for some to say that "a win's a win". Way too easy. It will also be too easy for Labour's by-election TV panellists on the night to begin by rolling out familiar excuses, such as "this is to be expected during a government's mid-term" or "of course we will react to the message we have been sent."

Denial permeated every explanation given after the result in Crewe and Nantwich, in which a safe northern England Labour seat, once off Tory radar, had just said no to Brown. The electorate of Crewe and Nantwich offered their verdict and no-one seemed to be listening. The local elections in England and Wales offered a similar verdict; the result in Henley, where the Labour candidate drifted in fifth behind the BNP, offered the uncomfortable conclusion that whatever Labour was now putting on sale, no-one was buying.

In the phantom election that never was, it wasn't that Brown showed weakness when confronted with a re-energised Tory party and their miracle cure of a promised cut in inheritance tax. His decision to call off a talked-up snap poll was a statistical one, a calculation that came down to "too much of a gamble". Had he confessed this, he would have been criticised, but the calculation would have been accepted as at least based in reality. But by denying his decision had anything to do with tightening polls, and repeating this again and again, Brown's credibility, and indeed his honesty, were diminished.

Other decisions should have made a greater impact on his premiership. Troop withdrawals from Iraq were promised but haven't materialised; the loosening of relations with George Bush's White House were initially choreographed, now the dance has been identified for what it was, fake; similarly, where is the constitutional reform and the reform that was supposed to bring in state funding for political parties?

Instead there has been the abolition of the 10p tax rate - an error in itself, but made worse by a denial, then a U-turn. And the successes? Ask, and you will be pointed to the introduction of 42 days detention for terrorist suspects and a quick-fire denial that this had anything to do with trying to out-manoeuvre the Conservatives on a security issue.

Brown's communications skills are poor to non-existent, his ability to look engaged and empathetic minimal. But denial and delusion have been his most damaging characteristics as, month on month, crisis on crisis, Labour's poll ratings have slumped to 20 points and more behind the Conservatives. And yet the constant message from Number 10 is that Brown remains the skilled and experienced politician who can take Britain out of what is being portrayed as just a little global difficulty in the economic cycle. Crisis? What crisis?

Lose Glasgow East, or sneak a victory, and either way a sane explanation has to be offered up by those around Brown. The delusional should be shunted into their own freak show. For others, a competent explanation will have to be offered as to why former Labour supporters deserted in droves and why voters who say they don't want independence for Scotland, and are at the bottom of the wealth scale, are being persuaded that the SNP offers them a greater chance of economic salvation.

Of course, if there is no credible explanation, there is only one credible outcome.

Just as Callaghan was gone in a matter of months after January 10, Brown may have his date marked - it may well be July 24, 2008.

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Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 8:45pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Just prior to the Tory conference Brown took off to Iraq in a spoiler tactic, it backfired.

The weekend prior to the Glasgow East by-election Brown takes off again to ..... Iraq.

This guy is every bit as opportunistic and shallow as Blair. A son of the manse using troops that he helped put into the theatre of war as pawns in an election stunt.

Of the most recent poll, it's methodology is not just questionable it is non existant. It purports to show Labour with a 17% lead. That extrapolates to a lead of around 3500 if we assume a turnout of 30,000.

This leaves 8700 people who have yet to decide where to place their cross !!

Labour have already lost Glasgow East, even if they cling on by a couple of thousand votes the victory will be hollow.
Posted by: Martin, Edinburgh on 8:48pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Isn't it time for Labour just to throw in the towel -even if the scrape by in this election?

Somebody put them out of their misery
- just as Scotland was ahead of the game in May 2007, then it's now time for an exit over the UK. Pity the alternative is the Conservatives who ( lest we forget) were being written off during last summer - all Cameron has to do is not make any gaffes.

Maybe people will see that Britain is actually not a very pleasant place to live and that all the Play Stations and DVDs in the world can't make up for the fact that quality of life ( for rich and poor) is pretty poor when compared to other less "prosperous" countries.
Posted by: The Answer on 8:58pm Sat 19 Jul 08
I hope the SNP takes Glasgow East!

England expect's, SNP should deliver.

GB the last Scottish prime minister of GB, I will drink th that!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:05pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Answer - The Racist
GB the last Scottish prime minister of GB, I will drink th that!
Then you will be wasting good wine.

He won't be the last but he might be the last for some time with a Scottish accent.

Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:12pm Sat 19 Jul 08
George
This guy is every bit as opportunistic and shallow as Blair.
It does not seem to have any skills as prime minister. The next general election won't come quick enough for him, but his portrait photograph will be added to the other PMs on the stairs in Number 10. And probably that's all he wanted, a shot on the merry-go-round.

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:14pm Sat 19 Jul 08

Is the UK Labour Party becoming anti-Scottish?
www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/politics/
article4040175.ece


“It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities.”
Stephen Ladyman, MP for Thanet S out


“We live in a world where there is a quota for women MPs and there may soon be quotas for black MPs. Why should there not be quotas for the English too? The Scots mafia have dominated Brown’s team for too long.”
Un-named Labour MP


“Voters are looking to see a better balance within the cabinet to ensure that all the regions of England are represented.”
Lindsay Hoyle, MP for Chorley


The idea that Cabinet Ministers should be chosen, not on merit but on the fact that they are not Scottish is absurd and quite possibly racist.

Substitute the word "Scots" for the word "Jewish" in the middle quote from the un-named Labour MP and there would be an uproar yet the gutless Scottish Labour MPs don't even raise a whimper

Of course, this anti-Scottish sentiment has another point to it. It is an attempt to destabilise Gordon Brown and if the case can be made against Scots being in the Cabinet then his jacket is surely on a shoogly nail. This is nothing more than a proxy fight against his leadership from the Labour Party in England

Poor Stephen McCabe.

He was the Labour mastermind of the disasterous defeat in the Crewe & Nantwich by-election. For that alone he should have been sacked as Whip.

Instead he is being villified purely because he is Scottish.

But the Middle England Labour marginals won't be satisfied with just that scalp. No, they want a 'Deputy Prime Minister for England'.... so an English White voice can reach out to Middle English communities.

Could you imagine if the tables were turned and it was the SNP complaining that too many English voices control Scottish public services?
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:14pm Sat 19 Jul 08

Is the UK Labour Party becoming anti-Scottish?
www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/politics/
article4040175.ece


“It is important to recognise that the election is won or lost in England. We need to have English voices speaking and giving messages that make sense in English communities.”
Stephen Ladyman, MP for Thanet S out


“We live in a world where there is a quota for women MPs and there may soon be quotas for black MPs. Why should there not be quotas for the English too? The Scots mafia have dominated Brown’s team for too long.”
Un-named Labour MP


“Voters are looking to see a better balance within the cabinet to ensure that all the regions of England are represented.”
Lindsay Hoyle, MP for Chorley


The idea that Cabinet Ministers should be chosen, not on merit but on the fact that they are not Scottish is absurd and quite possibly racist.

Substitute the word "Scots" for the word "Jewish" in the middle quote from the un-named Labour MP and there would be an uproar yet the gutless Scottish Labour MPs don't even raise a whimper

Of course, this anti-Scottish sentiment has another point to it. It is an attempt to destabilise Gordon Brown and if the case can be made against Scots being in the Cabinet then his jacket is surely on a shoogly nail. This is nothing more than a proxy fight against his leadership from the Labour Party in England

Poor Stephen McCabe.

He was the Labour mastermind of the disasterous defeat in the Crewe & Nantwich by-election. For that alone he should have been sacked as Whip.

Instead he is being villified purely because he is Scottish.

But the Middle England Labour marginals won't be satisfied with just that scalp. No, they want a 'Deputy Prime Minister for England'.... so an English White voice can reach out to Middle English communities.

Could you imagine if the tables were turned and it was the SNP complaining that too many English voices control Scottish public services?
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL FREE SCOTLAND on 9:18pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Not so long ago Labour voters would have been really proud of Brown. How things have changed, eh? The SNP have raised aspirations.

The latest poll across the UK puts Labour on 24%. Brown is drowning.

The difference between him and Callaghan is that the latter was a talented politician. Brown will be forgotten quickly.

He has no idea how much people just can't stand him. It's all over Gordon. For God's sake go now.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:22pm Sat 19 Jul 08


Crisis , What Crisis?

Gordon Brown has been warned for years about the looming debt crisis four years ago".

- Runaway Inflation in the Housing Market leading to worsening of global effects of US Credit Crunch

- Using Public-Private Partnerships to "disguise" Public Borrowing, distorting true inflation / prices.

- A failing & discredited Tax Credit System that has £15billion in fraud and over £9Billion unclaimed tax credits.

This doesn't even touch on the liberally regularised loan & credit car market where Britons now have an average of around £40k personal debt excl. mortgages, built up over a binge period of 10 years.

Brown has allowed Scotland to lag behind our neighbours on every important measure of economic performance......rat
her than flourishing, as we should be, on every serious indicator Scotland's economy has been floundering under Gordon Brown.

Brown's 5 Scottish Failures

1. Scotland's 10-year growth rate has been behind the UK and lower than our near neighbours Ireland, Iceland, and Norway

2. Using Labour's own figures, Scotland's public revenues - excluding oil and gas - have risen less quickly than the rest of the UK,Ireland, Norway, Iceland and New Zealand

3. Under Labour, Scottish families enjoy a significantly lower income than families elsewhere in the UK

4. Over the ten year period we have continued to have higher rates of unemployment than the rest of the UK and our neighbours and competitors, and a lower rate of employment than England

5. As part of the UK, Scotland has experienced higher interest rates than any of our competitors or neighbours
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:22pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Substitute the word "Scots" for the word "Jewish" in the middle quote from the un-named Labour MP and there would be an uproar yet the gutless Scottish Labour MPs don't even raise a whimper
Agreed (The terms used by author of the article are reminiscent of trolls on forums. No facts are recounted without a glib aside against the SNP.)
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:25pm Sat 19 Jul 08

Gordon Brown agrees to cut British troops in Iraq

Gordon Brown, has apparently said today he plans to reduce the remaining number of British troops in Iraq following a drop in attacks, but declined to set a timeframe for their departure. ....

So no Change there then.

Can anyone confirm how Margaret Curran voted on the Iraq War Debate in the Scottish Parliament..... did anyone tell John Michie?

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:26pm Sat 19 Jul 08

"..The SNP offers them a greater chance of economic salvation..."

VOTE POSITIVELY
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:34pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Taxpayer can bear no more, admits Alistair Darling
The Times
tinyurl.com/62n7sg

"...In his gloomiest assessment yet of the state of the British economy, Alistair Darling gave warning that the downturn was far more profound than he had thought and could last for years rather than months......."

"...Laying bare for the first time the Government’s assessment of the scale of the downturn, he said that Britain could still be suffering by the next election, expected in 2010....."

The pressure is mounting for Labour to adopt the SNP's Fuel Escalator and share the oil revenue windfall.......






Posted by: girfut, quaybored on 10:08pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Dahling to resign or get pushed before Thurs? It would save that vitriolic lying dog Magrat Gurn the price of a phone call. Dammit , its on expenses. Might save us 10p.
Brown might chop Dahling to offer up a scape goat?
Wont work. Look out Broon, Harriet`s behind you!
Posted by: Jimbo on 10:40pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Wardog wrote:
Gordon Brown agrees to cut British troops in Iraq Gordon Brown, has apparently said today he plans to reduce the remaining number of British troops in Iraq following a drop in attacks, but declined to set a timeframe for their departure. .... So no Change there then. Can anyone confirm how Margaret Curran voted on the Iraq War Debate in the Scottish Parliament..... did anyone tell John Michie?
Aye Wardog,

so he can post them to Afghanistan.

Last October when he was planning the election that never was, he promised the troops in Iraq that they'd be home for Christmas. When he bottled out of the election, his promise, like his backbone, was redundant.
Posted by: Vivas on 10:47pm Sat 19 Jul 08
A "must read" from behind the scenes at SLAB's Glasgow East campaign office. Priceless ! And makes me think that the whole rotten SLAB edifice is ready to crumble...even by Thursday ? Possibly ... if the SNP can land the right punches ! Enjoy anyway...


They would have employed a monkey


Brendan Perring suspected Labour’s election machine had spun off the tracks. What he saw at campaign HQ proved it has


tinyurl.com/62swzs

Heave awa lads and lassies, heave awa :-))
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 10:49pm Sat 19 Jul 08
The War are sucking us dry. Record borrowing levels by the Westminster, record Oil Revenues, and that's not enough says Darling -0 he wants more.

How many constituent of Glasgow East have sons in the Army because it's the one fast way out of poverty - I bet more than a few, and more than a few dead too.

Now tell me - was Curran in favour of these wars??
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:04pm Sat 19 Jul 08
STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS AND TALK OF A NARROW LABOUR WIN. THE SNP ARE WINNING AND LABOUR ARE LOOSING BY ALL MEASUREMENTS. KEEP PUSHING, AND STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:22pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Im no really here, but over there on 11:04pm

I know we all like to keep the spirits up. Do you really think that we're gonnie win this? Have you any compelling evidence?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:35pm Sat 19 Jul 08
He's going to kidnap Curran, Alex, and dump her on the Bass Rock. Job done.
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 11:38pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Los Angeles wrote:
He's going to kidnap Curran, Alex, and dump her on the Bass Rock. Job done.
Makes sense. As anyone who's got a mile downwind of it knows, the Bass Rock is covered in the accumulated sh1t of small brained birds. What could be a more appropriate place for Curran than that ...
Posted by: subrosa on 11:45pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Posted by: Vivas on 10:47pm today
A "must read" from behind the scenes at SLAB's Glasgow East campaign office. Priceless !


Priceless right enough!
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:02am Sun 20 Jul 08
Im no really here wrote:
STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS AND TALK OF A NARROW LABOUR WIN. THE SNP ARE WINNING AND LABOUR ARE LOOSING BY ALL MEASUREMENTS. KEEP PUSHING, AND STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS
The anti-Scottish press are trying the old Roman army trick of "You have no chance of winning so don't bother to turn up ."

I'm just back from Glasgow East and the buzz is fantastic. The key to winning is getting the vote out. BE THERE!

We are within a cat's whisker of winning. By Thursday we can win. BE THERE!
Posted by: Jimmy The Pie on 12:04am Sun 20 Jul 08
It just keeps getting worse for Comrade Broon!

From timesonline


A top aide to Gordon Brown has been a suspected victim of a “honeytrap” operation by Chinese intelligence agents.

The aide, a senior Downing Street adviser who was with the prime minister on a trip to China earlier this year, had his BlackBerry phone stolen after being picked up by a Chinese woman who had approached him in a Shanghai hotel disco.

The aide agreed to return to his hotel with the woman. He reported the BlackBerry missing the next morning.

The aide, whose identity is known to The Sunday Times, immediately reported the theft to the prime minister’s Special Branch protection team and was informally reprimanded.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:05am Sun 20 Jul 08
Alex Porter wrote:
Im no really here, but over there on 11:04pm I know we all like to keep the spirits up. Do you really think that we're gonnie win this? Have you any compelling evidence?
Alex, is this really you? Is it because you are in Madrid and not Glasgow?

We have a great chance of winning but only if we get hundreds of helpers out on Thursday to get the voters to the poll.

we just need to hold our nerve but more importantly, BE THERE!
Posted by: Jimmy The Pie on 12:06am Sun 20 Jul 08
And from the Mail on Sunday

Met Police chief facing interrogation over panel that gave £3m Yard contracts to skiing pal
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:06am Sun 20 Jul 08
Jimmy The Pie wrote:
It just keeps getting worse for Comrade Broon! From timesonline A top aide to Gordon Brown has been a suspected victim of a “honeytrap” operation by Chinese intelligence agents. The aide, a senior Downing Street adviser who was with the prime minister on a trip to China earlier this year, had his BlackBerry phone stolen after being picked up by a Chinese woman who had approached him in a Shanghai hotel disco. The aide agreed to return to his hotel with the woman. He reported the BlackBerry missing the next morning. The aide, whose identity is known to The Sunday Times, immediately reported the theft to the prime minister’s Special Branch protection team and was informally reprimanded.
Chinese take-way for Mr Bean!
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:07am Sun 20 Jul 08
Jimmy The Pie wrote:
And from the Mail on Sunday Met Police chief facing interrogation over panel that gave £3m Yard contracts to skiing pal
On the piste!
Posted by: Jimmy The Pie on 12:16am Sun 20 Jul 08
Duns Scotus,

You're on good form tonight!!
Posted by: Jimmy The Pie on 12:29am Sun 20 Jul 08
Again from the Times

Ministers are preparing to allow people labelled “idiots” and “lunatics” by archaic laws to stand for parliament.

Though it may come as a surprise to voters, laws dating back to Elizabethan times bar this category of people from becoming MPs.

Idiots are defined as those “incapable of gaining reason” and lunatics as people only “capable of periods of lucidity”.

The rules ban lunatics from standing as MPs in “their non lucid intervals”. They also ban anyone sectioned under the Mental Health Act from standing for parliament, even if they have made a recovery.

MPs have to give up their seat for life if they are sectioned for six months.

Bridget Prentice, the justice minister, is to consult on scrapping the laws after complaints from MPs and mental health charities that they are discriminatory.

“People who have suffered mental health problems can function at a very high level,” said a spokesman for Mind, the mental health charity. “Look at Stephen Fry. He has been open about his manic depression and people would be shocked if somebody like him were not eligible to stand.”

A survey of MPs found that 27% had experience of a mental health problem. One in three said the stigma had stopped them being open about it.


I thought most of the New Labour Sleaze benches were already full of idiots???
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:40am Sun 20 Jul 08
Hi Jimmy the Pie - I'm fired up after being in Glasgow East. I'm going back on Thursday - want to be there all day and get the vote out.

Here's another from the Sunday Times:

read this and smile:

THE Scottish National party is on the brink of claiming a historic victory in the Glasgow East by-election as Labour’s campaign this weekend descended into chaos.

Private polling by the nationalists reveals it is on 22% of the vote, four points behind Labour. But, with just four days until polling, 35% of voters are still undecided.

Labour’s efforts to canvass support have been hampered by crippling computer problems. Software imported from England was unable to recognise twin-number Scottish tenement addresses, leaving campaign organisers to record voting intentions manually.

The computer program recorded tenements on the wrong streets or missed them out altogether. Other problems included the occupants of whole blocks recorded as living in one flat.

In addition, hundreds of man hours have been wasted on pointless journeys as volunteers were sent canvassing with out-of-date maps.

Meanwhile, Margaret Curran, the gaffe-prone Labour candidate, is facing fresh accusations of arrogance and complacency after she admitted that she had not even read a personal letter, signed by herself and sent to every voter in the constituency.

More at http://www.times
online.co.uk/tol/new
s
/uk/scotland/article

4364504.ece

Posted by: Vivas on 1:00am Sun 20 Jul 08
Duns Scotus wrote:
Hi Jimmy the Pie - I'm fired up after being in Glasgow East. I'm going back on Thursday - want to be there all day and get the vote out. Here's another from the Sunday Times: read this and smile: THE Scottish National party is on the brink of claiming a historic victory in the Glasgow East by-election as Labour’s campaign this weekend descended into chaos. Private polling by the nationalists reveals it is on 22% of the vote, four points behind Labour. But, with just four days until polling, 35% of voters are still undecided. Labour’s efforts to canvass support have been hampered by crippling computer problems. Software imported from England was unable to recognise twin-number Scottish tenement addresses, leaving campaign organisers to record voting intentions manually. The computer program recorded tenements on the wrong streets or missed them out altogether. Other problems included the occupants of whole blocks recorded as living in one flat. In addition, hundreds of man hours have been wasted on pointless journeys as volunteers were sent canvassing with out-of-date maps. Meanwhile, Margaret Curran, the gaffe-prone Labour candidate, is facing fresh accusations of arrogance and complacency after she admitted that she had not even read a personal letter, signed by herself and sent to every voter in the constituency. More at http://www.times online.co.uk/tol/new s /uk/scotland/article 4364504.ece
Have another smile on me Duns... also from The Times, perhaps the same article...

David Cairns, Labour’s campaign spokesman, defended Curran, saying: “What goes out in the name of the candidate are sentiments that the candidate is entirely comfortable with."

Posted by: subrosa on 1:06am Sun 20 Jul 08
Posted by: Duns Scotus, Berwick on 12:05am today
Alex Porter wrote:
Im no really here, but over there on 11:04pm I know we all like to keep the spirits up. Do you really think that we're gonnie win this? Have you any compelling evidence?
Alex, is this really you? Is it because you are in Madrid and not Glasgow?

We have a great chance of winning but only if we get hundreds of helpers out on Thursday to get the voters to the poll.

we just need to hold our nerve but more importantly, BE THERE!


Hopefully will be there around 3pm as I've work in the morning and it's 100 miles for me to even get there too :)
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 1:25am Sun 20 Jul 08
I thought Doogie Fraser was bad, but this James Cusick diddy really takes the hob-nob!
Example:the Nationalists' self-righteous scale Now what the fook does that mean?
And this:
a less than impressive SNP candidate

You've got to be joking! John Mason comes across as an honest, decent, caring person - everything the wealthy Mrs Curran isn't.
It seems Mr Cusick is after Doogie's title of New Labour sycophant of the year.
(And for the benefit of the girly-man Alan of Glesca, a sycophant is not an ill jumbo.)
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 2:03am Sun 20 Jul 08
The Hooters Sundays Edition is venomous - so I guess this election really is going to be a close run thing - and Broonie runs off to Iraq!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:55am Sun 20 Jul 08
Iainbroch
and Broonie runs off to Iraq!
Did he tell them instead of their homcoming being weeks away they were there "for the duration"?
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 7:12am Sun 20 Jul 08
Alex Porter wrote:
Im no really here, but over there on 11:04pm

I know we all like to keep the spirits up. Do you really think that we're gonnie win this? Have you any compelling evidence?
Question asked.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 7:15am Sun 20 Jul 08
Duns Scotus wrote:
Im no really here wrote:
STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS AND TALK OF A NARROW LABOUR WIN. THE SNP ARE WINNING AND LABOUR ARE LOOSING BY ALL MEASUREMENTS. KEEP PUSHING, AND STOP BELIEVING THE SCOTTISH PRESS
The anti-Scottish press are trying the old Roman army trick of "You have no chance of winning so don't bother to turn up ."

I'm just back from Glasgow East and the buzz is fantastic. The key to winning is getting the vote out. BE THERE!

We are within a cat's whisker of winning. By Thursday we can win. BE THERE!
Answer given
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 7:20am Sun 20 Jul 08
Alex, as I said - Stop believing what you read in the Scottish Press. Many have shown themselves, time and time again, to be hard-line Labour supporters. In fact, Scottish Labour has been so weak, sometimes it appears that the Scottish Press is making Scottish Labour Policy.
Posted by: Wullie on 7:54am Sun 20 Jul 08
Watching a 13,507 majority shrink or evaporate when a less than impressive SNP candidate is pitted against a seasoned and high-profile Labour opponent

More biased guff from another Herald journalist who is either being told what to write or is maybe been promised a shag from Mags. ( a bird that is!- lol)

Dimwoodie was at it yesterday, praising Mags to the hilt.

What is going on?
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 10:52am Sun 20 Jul 08
The Answer, you speak for yourself. I live in England but there is no way I want Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. Labour needs to institute electoral reform (even if it is the less than satisfactory Alternative Vote or Alternative Vote Plus) if they are to save themselves (not that they deserve that fate) and prevent David Cameron's clueless spivs from gaining office. If Brown and the Labour Party had any inkling for the national interest they would hurry-up and do that.


By the way, the Answer, the vast majority of Britain's Scottish prime ministers have been pretty good ones. Just because Mr Brown and the cretin Tony Blair haven't been shouldn't be used to denigrate the others or a future one.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:07am Sun 20 Jul 08
Barry, Brentwood on 10:52am today

Well said Barry, even though I disagree with you politically

At least you've been able to articulate a plausible argument.....

Electoral reform is indeed and option for Brown, it will be interesting to see which party push the fiscal autonomy button for Scotland.

It would 'answer' many of the issues raised over funding whilst potentially maintaining parts of the political union.

How would you feel about a federal or con-federal UK

Say Defence and Immigration only.......






Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 11:26am Sun 20 Jul 08
Wardog wrote:
Barry, Brentwood on 10:52am today

Well said Barry, even though I disagree with you politically

At least you've been able to articulate a plausible argument.....

Electoral reform is indeed and option for Brown, it will be interesting to see which party push the fiscal autonomy button for Scotland.

It would 'answer' many of the issues raised over funding whilst potentially maintaining parts of the political union.

How would you feel about a federal or con-federal UK

Say Defence and Immigration only.......






Agreed. Thanks to Barry for the first unionist/union symapthetic post I've seen in weeks here (perhaps ever !) that does propose a sensible and reasonable alternative to the current status-quo. Although I'm a nationalist, the notion of UK wide electoral reform could lead to fairer government here (one of my fundamental desires) and all across the rest of these islands. Many people would find that very persuasive and for those that want to somehow or other maintain the UK as an entity, then this would go someways towards that.

However. The political vision and will just isn't there. Which is why the present arrangement can't hold much longer. Politicians and parties who ignore that fact are hastening Scottish independence by the day. And as a nationalist I'm glad about that. As it stands I don't see electoral and governmental fairness being achievable by any other means.

Sorry Barry, you make a good case ... it's just that Brown, Cameron et al don't have the brains to see that such notions would be the way to go that might just preserve "the union".
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 11:34am Sun 20 Jul 08
Well certainly immigration and defence would need to be done centrally but also foreign affairs as that is often connnected to defence. I can see the point in Scotland having some fiscal automony but I think this would need the EU's agreement because I am sure I have read somewhere that the EU takes a dim view of fiscal automony within member states.


I personally can't see how a federal United Kingdom would work if England had its own devolved parliament and executive. This is because of England's 80% plus share of the population. Other federations in the world have the strongest component having 30% or so population. There would be little point in having a parliament for England anyway because it wouldn't be long before the North would start complaining about London and the South East's dominance. Cornwall would probably want to opt-out of an English parliament. England needs regional devolution with strong powers.
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 11:46am Sun 20 Jul 08
There is of course a fundamental difference between a federation and what we have now in devolution and that is the powers a body has in a federation are guaranteed by the central authority and are written down in a constitution whereas in a devolved system the devolved powers are in reality centrally retained (Westminster). Ted Heath closed-down Stormont in 1972 without so much as a by-your-leave even though it had been operating for about fifty years.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:55am Sun 20 Jul 08


Wardog.... what's the difference between federal and confederal?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:28pm Sun 20 Jul 08

I stand by Brown because he is a man who stands for things. Not only for things, but on things too. Things like army tanks, and that sends a strong message to the world that no matter the crisis Britain will rebound with a powerfully staged photo-op.

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:51pm Sun 20 Jul 08
tris, scotland on 11:55am today

A confederation is a group of empowered states or communities, usually created by treaty but often later adopting a common constitution.

i.e. separate nations with some shared policies, the EU for example

A federal solution is usually meant as a devolved region with autonomous power but still within a single 'state'

Con-federation would mean a separate state short of full independence (you could question whether such a thing is a possibility or indeed desired).....

Possible Defence, Foreign Policy & Immigration a shared issues.



Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:57pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Wardog
Possible Defence, Foreign Policy & Immigration a shared issues.
With the exception of immigration, I can see that as being the fall-back position of all non-independence parties, once they realise they must alter radically to survive in Scotland and to serve it properly.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:58pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Barry, Brentwood on 11:34am today

...... fiscal automony but I think this would need the EU's agreement because I am sure I have read somewhere that the EU takes a dim view of fiscal automony within member states....."

yes, Corporation Tax and VAT would be difficult to vary whilst Scotland remains part of the UK, it's one of the strong economic arguments that lie behind civic nationalism. and achieving better economic growth for scotland.

".....I personally can't see how a federal United Kingdom would work if England had its own devolved parliament and executive......"

It was put to a vote for the Regional Assembly and there didn't seem to be a popular appetite for it.... an English only Parliament would essentially mean independence, I think we agree on that. for the same reasons as you put forward.


".....Cornwall would probably want to opt-out of an English parliament. England needs regional devolution with strong powers....."

Funny you shoudl mention that, I was visiting Portland just a couple of weeks ago and that is exactly the sentiment that was hearing in the pub..... they are very interesting mix of people down there (many weren't born and bread but had moved there for the life and surroundings), reminds me of a Scottish attitude of independence of mind......
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:03pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:57pm today

".....e fall-back position of all non-independence parties..."

Agreed, I'd go further and suggest that the polls seem to be indicating that this would get majority support if put to a referendum.

It will be interesting to see how the referendum is dealt with in relation to this and whether Salmond & Co view it more strategically as a major stepping stone towards independence or an a'all or nothing'.

If the Liberal have any intelleigence they will seek to claim this 'middle ground' - I think the full federal option is a step too far for the Tories and Labour.....

They will plump for piecemeal fiscal autonomy., certainly without Oil revenues.

This will only raise the question, why not oil?

I'm personally comfortable with a gradual movement., towards independence..... the longer we discuss it the more it is accepted by the wider public as an entirely feasible and indeed desirable state.

The key word in 2010 will be 'normality', & 'equality'


Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 1:23pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Wardog, Buckie, most people in England have no wish for a Parliament and Executive despite what some polls may say. The silly English Democrats party gets a derisory number of votes and has often been beaten by the Monster Raving Loony Party in by-elections. The one by-election they have done well in was the recent one in Haltemprice and Howden but that was a very unusual by-election.

One of the reasons John Prescott's referendum in the North East failed was because his regional assembly idea invoved assemblies that had few powers and also because people rightly suspected it was based-upon the the EU's 'Europe of the Regions' plan.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:31pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Wardog
The key word in 2010 will be 'normality' versus & 'equality' - surely?
I am a gradualist, though there are many who want overnight independence and I understand why. It needs only a major economic crisis or a raging war to deter people from achieving wider political objectives and cause them to concentrate on daily survival.

Fear is what Unionists play upon so brazenly. And they will use it when in a tight corner. It often has the desired effect. I hope people will understand that a free Scotland can make itself immune from many of those forces instead of subject to them.

The folk of Glasgow East must be bewildered by the pizzazz around them. They are, after all, not used to seeing such political fervour on their doorstep. It is the lie of Labour that they promise a lot yet deliver so little. What Labour are asking them to do is keep Brown in a job for which he was not elected. The SNP are asking them to sieze the day and the political power.

The SNP prize is much bigger.







Posted by: Buckpool Loon, Cheshire on 1:52pm Sun 20 Jul 08
No MacWhirter this week?

Pure conjecture, but could it be he's contemplating an editorial role?
Posted by: birsealmighty, Dundee on 2:08pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Barry wrote:
Wardog, Buckie, most people in England have no wish for a Parliament and Executive despite what some polls may say. The silly English Democrats party gets a derisory number of votes and has often been beaten by the Monster Raving Loony Party in by-elections. The one by-election they have done well in was the recent one in Haltemprice and Howden but that was a very unusual by-election. One of the reasons John Prescott's referendum in the North East failed was because his regional assembly idea invoved assemblies that had few powers and also because people rightly suspected it was based-upon the the EU's 'Europe of the Regions' plan.
Barry,

I want independence for Scotland not because I am anti-english (as has been spouted by Labour candidate Margaret Curran) but because the Union has failed my country in so many different ways and indeed places.

Any government of Westminster which is allied to this Union does not work for Scotland. A Westminster government works for bottom to middle England and quite rightly so because that is where the population of England is highly spread out.

When England votes Conservative (and they will) at the next UK Elections, Scotland will have this government forced upon us (again)although we may return no Conservative MP's in Scotland.

Why should the Conservative party give a monkeys hoot about Scotland when Scotland does not support them politically. So it will be back to Scotland being guinea pigs for the next new big government launch like when the poll tax was introduced in the 1980's.

So my reason for Independence is to be part of helping shape my own country, to trade independently and ultimately prosper like many small countries in the world do now.

But ultimately I do not believe in the Union. I want Scotland to be independent because it can, it will and it should be.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:47pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Buckpool Loon, Cheshire on 1:52pm today

Fit Like Buckpool

Aye, I was missing his usual natter iswell.

He's maybe busy applying for the Herald Editor's Position....
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:50pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Barry, Brentwood on 1:23pm today

Thanks for you input today Barry, I found it very interesting

And a refreshing change form the usual troll abuse given out by the BNP Thugs on these boards....

There are some interesting times ahead for the UK.



Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:52pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:31pm today

"...The SNP prize is much bigger...."

Therein lies the difference between the two parties.

Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:54pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Buckpool Loon, Cheshire on 1:52pm today

I've noticed BBC Brian has disappeared off the side of the planet too

The Seismic shift is happening in Scottish media.

The BBC Commission Report is due for completion in the next few weeks.
Posted by: Monty Furk, Republic of Scotland on 3:07pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Truth, Lies, Oil & Scotland on BBC Parliament now, Sun 3pm.


Charles McGhee has resigned as Herald editor.

We live in very interesting times...

:O)
Posted by: Monty Furk, Republic of Scotland on 3:23pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Hmmm, no Politics Show in Scotland again today. It was cancelled due to Wimbledon a few Sundays ago, what's their excuse this week??!!

To risky to have Magrat in front of the cameras 4 days before polling day or could she not make it in from her expensive hoose in Newlands (which is in the East End apparently)?

Interesting the EBC are showing Truth, Lies, Oil & Scotland instead of the Politics Show at its usual 3pm slot on BBC Parliament right now!
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 5:47pm Sun 20 Jul 08


.
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL PATROLL on 7:05pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Good point Wardog :O)

As for Charles McGhee, perhaps the owners told him to be more fair to the nationalists. He couldn't stomach that and left.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:29pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Alex
Good point Wardog :O)
Lol. Yes, well placed, too.
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL CONTROLL on 7:45pm Sun 20 Jul 08
He's quoting from a period ical..
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:34am Mon 21 Jul 08

Thanks Wardog
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:57am Mon 21 Jul 08

What does Brown think he is achieving by prancing around the Middle-East threatening Iran and cuddling up to Isreal when the UK is in recession, and he has a by-election putting his future on the line?

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