Labour’s unholy betrayal UNDERCURRENT: Patrick Reilly THAT OLD MARRIAGE, ONCE apparently made in heaven, between Labour as the party of the poor and Catholics as their foremost clients, seems to be heading for the rocks. It is like waking up married to a stranger, and to an unfriendly stranger at that. It is indisputable that a substantial and growing number of Scottish Catholics no longer instinctively turn to Labour.
That old conditioned reflex of unhesitatingly putting an X against the Labour candidate's name is fast fading. The deterioration has been caused, in part, by changes within the Catholic community, but in even greater measure by a seismic upheaval within Labour itself. The shorthand for this is New Labour.
Catholic defection is not the sole cause of the Labour collapse within Scotland, but it is a significant contribution. Labour has only itself to blame for squandering the almost unconditional loyalty given to the party by the Scottish Catholic community. If you kick a man in the teeth you must not expect him to fall about your neck in gratitude.
Yet one must not exaggerate. Not only do higher proportions of Catholics vote for Labour, higher proportions of Catholics campaign for Labour. Yet Catholics no longer look with total confidence to Labour as defenders against their enemies. Some would say that Labour has unnervingly become the enemy.
For one thing, there has been the emergence of an increasingly self-confident Catholic middle class. There are still many poor Catholics, but they are Catholics who happen to be poor, not poor because they are Catholics.
New Labour has similarly ceased to be the party of the poor. The decision of its chieftains to loosen old traditional loyalties as the precondition for electoral victory has led to a wholly transformed political situation.
In previous ages Catholics looked right to discern their enemies. Sectarian bigots attacked Catholics for being Catholic - which is why Catholics turned to Labour as their surest protectors. Now, shockingly, they are forced to look left to identify their enemies. Catholics are attacked now for being Christian by left-wing ideologues who wish to eradicate religion itself.
Catholics are abandoning Labour now only because Labour first abandoned them. And with the SNP serenading the Catholic community I suppose it's just as well New Labour believes in easy divorce and partnerships, because this is one marriage which is all but over.
Patrick Reilly is emeritus professor of English Language and Literature, the University of Glasgow
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Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:16pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Is the Labour Party anti-Relgious?
One of the Prime Minister's first decisions last year was to shelve plans to repeal the 1701 Act of Settlement, which allows the heir to the throne to marry a member of any religion except Roman Catholicism
Then there is the sustained attack on faith schools by Ed Balls, who has effectively accused the Catholic Church of going against the teachings of Christ by seeking to exclude disadvantaged pupils.
And then we have Labour MP Jim Dobbin who has written to the Prime Minister expressing his concern about the ‘anti-Catholic attitudes’ of some party members. His letter follows the resignation of Conor McGinn, the Roman Catholic vice-chairman of Young Labour , citing the ‘anti-Catholicism’ which surfaced around the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill and which emanate from a prominent Labour MEP.
He wrote in his letter of resignation: "As you know, I have always kept my Catholic faith a private and personal matter. My views on several aspects of the Human Fertisation and Embryology Bill, particularly the amendments relating to abortion, are sincerely and deeply held, and I respect and acknowledge that those who disagree with me hold equally sincere views. It is because of this that I found it unacceptable that units of Young Labour, including London Young Labour, organised and advertised events to campaign on one side of the argument, in what is, after all, an issue of conscience and not party politics"
Labour MEP Mary Honeyball, has questioned the right of any Catholic to hold public office.
Labour MP Stephen Pound claimed Mary Honeyball’s anti-Catholic statements had “a strong whiff of the 17th century about them.”
Mr Pound went on to say:
“The logic of her argument is to suggest that no single person who subscribes to any moral or religious code should dare to stand for election to Parliament,”
Is the Labour Party anti-Relgious?
One of the Prime Minister's first decisions last year was to shelve plans to repeal the 1701 Act of Settlement, which allows the heir to the throne to marry a member of any religion except Roman Catholicism
Then there is the sustained attack on faith schools by Ed Balls, who has effectively accused the Catholic Church of going against the teachings of Christ by seeking to exclude disadvantaged pupils.
And then we have Labour MP Jim Dobbin who has written to the Prime Minister expressing his concern about the ‘anti-Catholic attitudes’ of some party members. His letter follows the resignation of Conor McGinn, the Roman Catholic vice-chairman of Young Labour , citing the ‘anti-Catholicism’ which surfaced around the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill and which emanate from a prominent Labour MEP.
He wrote in his letter of resignation: "As you know, I have always kept my Catholic faith a private and personal matter. My views on several aspects of the Human Fertisation and Embryology Bill, particularly the amendments relating to abortion, are sincerely and deeply held, and I respect and acknowledge that those who disagree with me hold equally sincere views. It is because of this that I found it unacceptable that units of Young Labour, including London Young Labour, organised and advertised events to campaign on one side of the argument, in what is, after all, an issue of conscience and not party politics"
Labour MEP Mary Honeyball, has questioned the right of any Catholic to hold public office.
Labour MP Stephen Pound claimed Mary Honeyball’s anti-Catholic statements had “a strong whiff of the 17th century about them.”
Mr Pound went on to say:
“The logic of her argument is to suggest that no single person who subscribes to any moral or religious code should dare to stand for election to Parliament,”
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:22pm Sat 19 Jul 08
Labour aren't exactly the party for marriage either. Right now they are making it less financially viable for me to be married than be single and on benefits. The CSA are the worst group ever created and are absolutely useless.
Labour aren't exactly the party for marriage either. Right now they are making it less financially viable for me to be married than be single and on benefits. The CSA are the worst group ever created and are absolutely useless.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 11:46pm Sat 19 Jul 08
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors.
Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT.
But I suppose that we should condemn the sin,
and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the
poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc.
And risking stating the obvious ; precious
few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever !
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors.
Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT.
But I suppose that we should condemn the sin,
and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the
poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc.
And risking stating the obvious ; precious
few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever !
Posted by: Swizzair on 12:37am Sun 20 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Ronald[/bold] wrote:
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors. Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT. But I suppose that we should condemn the sin, and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc. And risking stating the obvious ; precious few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever ![/quote] The 2001 Census shows 16% of people in Scotland as Roman Catholic. That percentage cannot be held solely responsible for making Scotland solid Labour territory. More tuition in mathematics is clearly required for the Ronalds of the world.
Ronald wrote:
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors. Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT. But I suppose that we should condemn the sin, and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc. And risking stating the obvious ; precious few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever !
The 2001 Census shows 16% of people in Scotland as Roman Catholic. That percentage cannot be held solely responsible for making Scotland solid Labour territory. More tuition in mathematics is clearly required for the Ronalds of the world.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 7:40am Sun 20 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Swizzair[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Ronald[/bold] wrote:
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors. Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT. But I suppose that we should condemn the sin, and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc. And risking stating the obvious ; precious few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever ![/quote] The 2001 Census shows 16% of people in Scotland as Roman Catholic. That percentage cannot be held solely responsible for making Scotland solid Labour territory. More tuition in mathematics is clearly required for the Ronalds of the world. [/quote] I would hardly call Scotland "solid Labour territory", even at their height. We are (have been) dealing with a "first-past-the-post
" system, so appearances can be deceptive. The point is the majority of this 16% is concentrated in the West of Scotland, particularly Glasgow. I remember my own surprise at being told that Croy was a Roman Catholic town.
I remember someone being told by a Glasgow based Catholic Priest that Edinburgh was a Protestant City - by implication, that Glasgow was a Catholic City in his mind. Haven't been there for a while, but is the Glasgow City Council still flying the Irish Tricolour above George Sq??
Curran made, what I believe was a fatal mistake last week in opposing RC Bishop Devine. Regarding Roman Catholic Labour supporters - much to the disbelief of die-hard Labour activists, they are Roman Catholic first, Labour supporters second.
Swizzair wrote:
Ronald wrote:
I am surprised that catholics appear to becoming estranged from their political benefactors. Surely right-wing, authoritarian, religous zealots would have found the warmest of welcomes within todays NEW LABOUR PROJECT. But I suppose that we should condemn the sin, and not the sinner, for sustaining these crypto-facists ratbast*rds in power for so long. How unfortunate that voices were not raised, ACTION was not undertaken, by Church leaders over NEW LABOURS bloody and illegal massacres, sleaze, corruption, attacks on the poorest in society, asylum seekers etc etc. And risking stating the obvious ; precious few Parliamentarians appear to exercise any sort of morality whatsoever !
The 2001 Census shows 16% of people in Scotland as Roman Catholic. That percentage cannot be held solely responsible for making Scotland solid Labour territory. More tuition in mathematics is clearly required for the Ronalds of the world.
I would hardly call Scotland "solid Labour territory", even at their height. We are (have been) dealing with a "first-past-the-post
" system, so appearances can be deceptive. The point is the majority of this 16% is concentrated in the West of Scotland, particularly Glasgow. I remember my own surprise at being told that Croy was a Roman Catholic town.
I remember someone being told by a Glasgow based Catholic Priest that Edinburgh was a Protestant City - by implication, that Glasgow was a Catholic City in his mind. Haven't been there for a while, but is the Glasgow City Council still flying the Irish Tricolour above George Sq??
Curran made, what I believe was a fatal mistake last week in opposing RC Bishop Devine. Regarding Roman Catholic Labour supporters - much to the disbelief of die-hard Labour activists, they are Roman Catholic first, Labour supporters second.
Posted by: Quizzical, Glasgow on 11:07am Sun 20 Jul 08
What is the SNP's policy on abortion?
What is the SNP's policy on abortion?
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:22am Sun 20 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Quizzical[/bold] wrote:
What is the SNP's policy on abortion?[/quote] To let each member vote according to their own conscience on it and related matters.
Quizzical wrote:
What is the SNP's policy on abortion?
To let each member vote according to their own conscience on it and related matters.
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 11:25am Sun 20 Jul 08
Quizzical
A free vote for MPs and MSPs. The SNP does not dictate party policy on items such as this.
Quizzical
A free vote for MPs and MSPs. The SNP does not dictate party policy on items such as this.
Posted by: leftmark, Rutherglen on 11:48am Sun 20 Jul 08
matters such as what? if you mean life and death do you have a party policy on wars of aggression?
matters such as what? if you mean life and death do you have a party policy on wars of aggression?
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 12:59pm Sun 20 Jul 08
leftmark - yes the SNP and, to their credit the LibDems, opposed the Bush inspired and US led invasion of Iraq, and have never deviated from that position.
By contrast, both of the major UK parties, Labour and the Tories, not only supported the invasion but have tried to justify their position ever since.
leftmark - yes the SNP and, to their credit the LibDems, opposed the Bush inspired and US led invasion of Iraq, and have never deviated from that position.
By contrast, both of the major UK parties, Labour and the Tories, not only supported the invasion but have tried to justify their position ever since.
Posted by: heady on 1:03pm Sun 20 Jul 08
What utter drivel, which is contradicted by all the evidence, from someone who used to be a teacher.
Nulabor was and is led by god-botherers and gives extensive access to government to the reactionaries of the Catholic hierarchy, along with the reactionaries of the Protestant and other churches. Just because some of the rest of us have rights that even these politicians have baulked at removing when urged to do so by the rich and powerful of Scotland’s organised religious political lobbies does not mean nulabor does not share their reactionary agenda.
Some people will moan about government hostility when they are in fact given privileged access – it’s just that they want to control everything politicians do – only then will their vision of “democracy” be fulfilled.
What utter drivel, which is contradicted by all the evidence, from someone who used to be a teacher.
Nulabor was and is led by god-botherers and gives extensive access to government to the reactionaries of the Catholic hierarchy, along with the reactionaries of the Protestant and other churches. Just because some of the rest of us have rights that even these politicians have baulked at removing when urged to do so by the rich and powerful of Scotland’s organised religious political lobbies does not mean nulabor does not share their reactionary agenda.
Some people will moan about government hostility when they are in fact given privileged access – it’s just that they want to control everything politicians do – only then will their vision of “democracy” be fulfilled.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 1:10pm Sun 20 Jul 08
leftmark - to add to my previous post, it is my understanding that an independent Scotland would have a defence force to deter any potential foreign invaders and would be willing to contribute forces to UN peacekeeping operations, in the same way as Ireland and other small European countries do.
Unlike the current UK government, Scotland would not imagine itself to be a "world's policeman" obediently supplying forces to aid the US in protecting its foreign oil interests.
leftmark - to add to my previous post, it is my understanding that an independent Scotland would have a defence force to deter any potential foreign invaders and would be willing to contribute forces to UN peacekeeping operations, in the same way as Ireland and other small European countries do.
Unlike the current UK government, Scotland would not imagine itself to be a "world's policeman" obediently supplying forces to aid the US in protecting its foreign oil interests.
Posted by: birsealmighty, Dundee on 2:26pm Sun 20 Jul 08
I'm not big on religion and although I was christened a 'prodestant' it means nothing to me whatsoever. Each to their own. But because this Union has been rammed down my throat for years I always between the big two want Celtic to win rather than Rangers.
However, what amazes me is that when Rangers were in the UEFA cup final and I couldn't escape from all those 'union jocks' being waved (on television) before they played and Gordon Broon slavering watching the union being so openly displayed; cap that off with when they come to Tannadice and unfurl a huge union flag in the stands. It makes me think of putting a lit match to it each time I see it. And I know I'm not alone.
Why as a non believing/following (whatever) prodestant do Catholics then want to vote for a Labour party that is so wrapped up in the Union.
Is it just me (being non religious) I'm not seeing the sense in all this.
Don't get me wrong I think Religion, Politics and Education should be separate, however until they are people reserve the right to send their children to any school they wish.
I'm not big on religion and although I was christened a 'prodestant' it means nothing to me whatsoever. Each to their own. But because this Union has been rammed down my throat for years I always between the big two want Celtic to win rather than Rangers.
However, what amazes me is that when Rangers were in the UEFA cup final and I couldn't escape from all those 'union jocks' being waved (on television) before they played and Gordon Broon slavering watching the union being so openly displayed; cap that off with when they come to Tannadice and unfurl a huge union flag in the stands. It makes me think of putting a lit match to it each time I see it. And I know I'm not alone.
Why as a non believing/following (whatever) prodestant do Catholics then want to vote for a Labour party that is so wrapped up in the Union.
Is it just me (being non religious) I'm not seeing the sense in all this.
Don't get me wrong I think Religion, Politics and Education should be separate, however until they are people reserve the right to send their children to any school they wish.
Posted by: leftmark, Rutherglen on 2:35pm Sun 20 Jul 08
apologies for any confusion,my point was this , i fail to see why it is beyond any of the major political parties to take a lead on a matter such as abortion and actually formulate and declare a policy whatever that may be rather than washing their hands of it and declaring it to be up to individual ethics and consciences, the obvious comparison is that if a party can be in favour or against a war then why can't it have a position on abortion or stem cell research? would go further and say that there is nothing that a political party says or does that shouldnt involve consicence it just seems that they are afraid of upsetting a particular group of people when it comes to particualr subjects and so wash their hands of it by saying its up to individual politicians, i can understand this as a tactical approach to ensure a progressive position is susccessful but the long-term way to do that would really be to give some leadership and stand up for that position
apologies for any confusion,my point was this , i fail to see why it is beyond any of the major political parties to take a lead on a matter such as abortion and actually formulate and declare a policy whatever that may be rather than washing their hands of it and declaring it to be up to individual ethics and consciences, the obvious comparison is that if a party can be in favour or against a war then why can't it have a position on abortion or stem cell research? would go further and say that there is nothing that a political party says or does that shouldnt involve consicence it just seems that they are afraid of upsetting a particular group of people when it comes to particualr subjects and so wash their hands of it by saying its up to individual politicians, i can understand this as a tactical approach to ensure a progressive position is susccessful but the long-term way to do that would really be to give some leadership and stand up for that position
Posted by: JC on 8:37pm Sun 20 Jul 08
Just a tiny point about this article- it's total drivel.
Just a tiny point about this article- it's total drivel.
Posted by: Frank, Blantyre on 10:58pm Sun 20 Jul 08
I was in the Labour Party - I am also a catholic.
I hope that the Labour Party get slaughtered in the east end. Their hypocrisy, the fact that they expect catholics to troop out to polling stations and vote for any monkey (or monkeyess), they put up makes me sick.
I think the SNP candidate is weak and less than impressive - but I would vote for Mason if I stayed in the Calton.
I have problems with Labour in terms of their attitude towards the church.
My biggest problem with the Labour Party is that they have sold the working class right down the Clyde.
If my father (RIP) knew what this crowd of criminals were up to he would be birling in his grave.
I was in the Labour Party - I am also a catholic.
I hope that the Labour Party get slaughtered in the east end. Their hypocrisy, the fact that they expect catholics to troop out to polling stations and vote for any monkey (or monkeyess), they put up makes me sick.
I think the SNP candidate is weak and less than impressive - but I would vote for Mason if I stayed in the Calton.
I have problems with Labour in terms of their attitude towards the church.
My biggest problem with the Labour Party is that they have sold the working class right down the Clyde.
If my father (RIP) knew what this crowd of criminals were up to he would be birling in his grave.
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