A wee problem Having been strongarmed
at Ibrox last week, Gordon
Strachan is being forced to realise that size truly matters
in modern
football CELTIC MAY have scaled the heights to record back-to-back SPL title wins in the past two seasons but they can no longer truthfully claim to be head and
shoulders above their nearest
challengers. Not only did Rangers' comprehensive 3-0 victory over their Old Firm rivals at Ibrox last week bring the champions down to earth with a bump, it may yet prove to be an epoch-defining moment in the evolution of the modern Scottish footballer.
This theory of history sees the battle for supremacy in the Scottish league less as a series of random events and more of a continual struggle by
competing managers to exploit the perceived weaknesses of their nearest challengers. In the recent history of Scottish football, this almost always occurs between one side of Glasgow and the other.
First in this broad-brush analysis comes Martin O'Neill, whose answer to the cash-rich hegemony of Dick
Advocaat at Ibrox was to buy tall,
physically-imposing players such as Chris Sutton and Bobo Balde, mould them into a unit, and frequently bypass the midfield altogether. Alex McLeish could hardly fail to notice this
successes - the two Scottish cup final goals even in defeat in May 2003 by Balde and John Hartson are thought to have been particularly helpful in
jogging his memory - and before long he too started to fill his side with giant doppelgangers such as Sotirios
Kyrgiakos, Marvin Andrews and Dado Prso. Sick of being physically bullied, supposedly second-tier sides such as Hearts, then more recently Dundee United, have had their own success by following the same trend.
Yet if Strachan's contribution in his two successful years to date has largely been to get the ball down again and re-introduce the winger, last Saturday may just go down as the point where this process was adjudged to have gone too far too soon. Rangers started the match with more than half an inch height advantage over Celtic, and although none of their goals - other than a penalty - came directly from a set piece, the Ibrox club made the most of the physical mismatch in their appetite for 50/50 challenges. Celtic were quite simply strongarmed out of the game.
Having had his own glorious playing career despite his 5ft 6in frame, it must pain Strachan to make such adjustments, but even during the crushing late midweek defeat to Benfica, the
relegation of Scott McDonald (5ft 8in) and Shunsuke Nakamura (5ft 10in) to the bench in preference to Chris Killen (6ft) and Jiri Jarosik (6ft 4in) appeared to be at least partially motivated by an attempt to ensure his side were
competitive in both penalty areas.
Having said that, leaving your dead-ball specialist on the bench hardly increases your chances of scoring from a set piece.
"Set pieces are absolutely huge," Strachan said, "and there are taller
people playing now. When I was playing in Scotland, everybody had two centre halves who were tall, and the rest of us were all between five foot and six foot. If you look at Dundee United, Rangers and Hearts now they are all huge and you have to have a certain amount of players who can head the ball away or you will suffer.
"I went to see Dundee United versus Motherwell the other week, and there was absolutely nothing in the game. Then all of a sudden there was a corner kick, the boy at the far post wins a header and the game's finished. The difference is that the ball moves quicker, they can get more swerve on it, so you need to be able to protect
different areas."
Strachan insisted that such facets of the game were "not really a source of concern" but with Walter Smith's Rangers side having won all three of the battles between the teams - by increasing scorelines of 1-0, 2-0, 3 - and three potentially-season defining Old Firm games to go, not all of the club's supporters would necessarily agree with him.
"They won more challenges than us in the middle of the park," Strachan recalled. "You don't have to be a giant, but you have to be clever sometimes, and be brave.
"I was watching Aussie Rules: if you can't win that bit in the middle, then you can't go and play elsewhere. Even in rugby, if you don't win the ball in the ruck then you can't go and play elsewhere. Football - I will show you any result; take my team, I have got every stat you could possibly want, that if you lose out on the tackles then you lose out in the game. We outpassed Rangers by 120 passes, we had 14 attempts on goal to their 10, we had possession longer than them, but it all comes down to where you win the tackle and how quickly you move it on from there."
Yet even after two such demoralising outcomes in the space of seven days, Strachan still has plenty to feel positive about. His side went into the weekend still top of the league, and two home wins will still gives them a decent shot of Champions League progression.
Not that he has time to dwell on things anyway. After yesterday's
meeting with Motherwell, there is the visit of Hearts on CiS Cup duty on Wednesday night, and the club are already "out there looking at some positions" ahead of the transfer
window opening in January.
"At the moment we have taken a couple of knocks in terms of both mental and physical knocks and you just get on with it," he said. "How do you get back to feeling positive? I just need to look at this group of players. When it is fully fit, I think it will be good. I look at where we want to add to that group. And yes, I am positive. I can't help it, that is how I feel." Strachan, rest assured, still has some big ideas.
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Posted by: Jim, Ayrshire on 9:37pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Not an old firm game and therefore back to a semblance of normality. Celtic won convincingly against 'Well. Last week was bad - Ibrox result ref assisted and really bad luck in Lisbon. But that's life in what passes for the real world. The stats at Ibrox are interesting. Rangers needed 9.1 fouls before they got a booking Celtic averaged 2.3 fouls in the same game. The only stats that counted are the 3 points and the 3 goals. However, the pundits all week have been banging on about the Celtic defence. Look at the table. Rangers have conceded 1 goal less that Celtic - despite their three last week - and have scored less as well. What does that mean? Today Celtic could have scored six or seven with no significant threat at the other end. This with horrific injury problems in key positions. Tonight on a phone in a Celtic fan (not the only one)was complaining that Strachan is no use and has to go. He moaned that Strachan had said the SPL trphy is his priority and that Celtic were not going to win the Champion's league (without maybe Ģ40 million being spent on the team). When the presenter asked the fan whether he thought Celtic could win the Champion's League he was very clear that this wasn't about to happen but still felt that Strachan should not have been saying these things. WHY not - it's the real world. I would far rather see Celtic win the SPL trophy than see them do well in Europe but at the expense of the SPL. Some people need to get over the crazy notion that Strachan has not got the credentials to lead Celtic. His record so far is better than O'Neill's and he has had a fraction of the money to play with. Viva Ginger.
Not an old firm game and therefore back to a semblance of normality. Celtic won convincingly against 'Well. Last week was bad - Ibrox result ref assisted and really bad luck in Lisbon. But that's life in what passes for the real world. The stats at Ibrox are interesting. Rangers needed 9.1 fouls before they got a booking Celtic averaged 2.3 fouls in the same game. The only stats that counted are the 3 points and the 3 goals. However, the pundits all week have been banging on about the Celtic defence. Look at the table. Rangers have conceded 1 goal less that Celtic - despite their three last week - and have scored less as well. What does that mean? Today Celtic could have scored six or seven with no significant threat at the other end. This with horrific injury problems in key positions. Tonight on a phone in a Celtic fan (not the only one)was complaining that Strachan is no use and has to go. He moaned that Strachan had said the SPL trphy is his priority and that Celtic were not going to win the Champion's league (without maybe Ģ40 million being spent on the team). When the presenter asked the fan whether he thought Celtic could win the Champion's League he was very clear that this wasn't about to happen but still felt that Strachan should not have been saying these things. WHY not - it's the real world. I would far rather see Celtic win the SPL trophy than see them do well in Europe but at the expense of the SPL. Some people need to get over the crazy notion that Strachan has not got the credentials to lead Celtic. His record so far is better than O'Neill's and he has had a fraction of the money to play with. Viva Ginger.
Posted by: Duncan, Glasgow on 9:45pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Looking beyond the bare "stats" from last week, Rangers had a good goal disallowed and a stonewall penalty turned down.
Looking beyond the bare "stats" from last week, Rangers had a good goal disallowed and a stonewall penalty turned down.
Posted by: jim, Ayrshire on 9:56pm Sat 27 Oct 07
In that case you'll be quite upset that Hutton's 'save' from Barcalona did not result in a penalty. You're right that McCulloch's goal should have stood, but McDonald was 'equally offside' several times. Again, no argument the better team won on the day. But it was assisted by ridiculous refereeing and all any Celtic fan has been asking is that there is some consistency. In midweek, players in the CL had 'offences' worse than Celtic were booked for at Ibrox that weren't even penalised. Apart from the obvious one-sided view that fans (myself included) take I think the whole focus of recent weeks about an agenda against Rangers needs to be revisited. All the phone-ins and most of the press bang on about Celtic's defence being mince. I just think the stats are relevant. Facts are facts everywhere else except when it comes to the old firm it seems.
In that case you'll be quite upset that Hutton's 'save' from Barcalona did not result in a penalty. You're right that McCulloch's goal should have stood, but McDonald was 'equally offside' several times. Again, no argument the better team won on the day. But it was assisted by ridiculous refereeing and all any Celtic fan has been asking is that there is some consistency. In midweek, players in the CL had 'offences' worse than Celtic were booked for at Ibrox that weren't even penalised. Apart from the obvious one-sided view that fans (myself included) take I think the whole focus of recent weeks about an agenda against Rangers needs to be revisited. All the phone-ins and most of the press bang on about Celtic's defence being mince. I just think the stats are relevant. Facts are facts everywhere else except when it comes to the old firm it seems.
Posted by: Dee, Lurgan on 10:30pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Good posts Jim. Don't think theres any doubt that Rangers deliberately set out to imtimidate. No problem there. They're quite entitled. My worry is that we let them. Refs decisions were questionable but still the best team won - all too easily. I am concerned that Gordon Strachan did not have his team up for it. Also have some concern re commentators comments about McDonald kicking McGregor while missing the obvious incident (deliberately standing on his foot) which led to it.
Good posts Jim. Don't think theres any doubt that Rangers deliberately set out to imtimidate. No problem there. They're quite entitled. My worry is that we let them. Refs decisions were questionable but still the best team won - all too easily. I am concerned that Gordon Strachan did not have his team up for it. Also have some concern re commentators comments about McDonald kicking McGregor while missing the obvious incident (deliberately standing on his foot) which led to it.
Posted by: James, Lincoln on 10:44pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Got to agree with Jim. The refereeing last week was amongst the worst I have ever seen.
Rangers won because they were physically stronger and wanted it more, but you got the feeling that even if Celtic had responded to their, "robust," approach in kind, they would not have finished with eleven men on the pitch.
This Celtic team just have to realise that sometimes you have to fight for the right to play football against more physical but less skilled opponents. The lack of fight was what disappointed most, although it did not help losing McManus to a disgraceful (and strangely unpunished) challenge from Cousin.
It's a bit soon though to be talking about even the medium-term significance of this match. The last two wins for Rangers came in games when the result mattered little to Celtic. The first came immediately after Celtic's match in Milan and after playing Rangers off the pitch in the first half, Celtic visibly ran out of steam in the second.
It is a valid point though that Celtic have struggled against big physical teams since the departure of O'Neill.
Funnily enough, I think Celtic will fare better against the other SPL teams than Rangers will. By the end of the first round of fixtures, Celtic, having played one more away match than Rangers, will at worst be behind Rangers only on goal difference; at best ahead by three points.
Got to agree with Jim. The refereeing last week was amongst the worst I have ever seen.
Rangers won because they were physically stronger and wanted it more, but you got the feeling that even if Celtic had responded to their, "robust," approach in kind, they would not have finished with eleven men on the pitch.
This Celtic team just have to realise that sometimes you have to fight for the right to play football against more physical but less skilled opponents. The lack of fight was what disappointed most, although it did not help losing McManus to a disgraceful (and strangely unpunished) challenge from Cousin.
It's a bit soon though to be talking about even the medium-term significance of this match. The last two wins for Rangers came in games when the result mattered little to Celtic. The first came immediately after Celtic's match in Milan and after playing Rangers off the pitch in the first half, Celtic visibly ran out of steam in the second.
It is a valid point though that Celtic have struggled against big physical teams since the departure of O'Neill.
Funnily enough, I think Celtic will fare better against the other SPL teams than Rangers will. By the end of the first round of fixtures, Celtic, having played one more away match than Rangers, will at worst be behind Rangers only on goal difference; at best ahead by three points.
Posted by: kennybhoy, dubai on 10:44pm Sat 27 Oct 07
I don't see a reason to panic.. When rangers avoid losing 4 goals to a poor hearts team then maybe we should worry. They got the better of us last week, and deploy anti-football tactics against Barca(don't blame them for that, a points a point against that quality of team) but WGS is trying to play football 'the glasgow celtic way'.. You don't do that with 6 and a half footers, bullying ur way through a game, and there's no chance of 50k a week being splashed out on larsons,suttons or laudrups..so what do we do.. We live within our means, get as much CL football as we can, notch up as much experience that we can, get the bhoys used to playing together and keep the Borucs and the Naka's as happy as we can playing for the greatest club in europe.. Top of the league..we shall not be moved!!
I don't see a reason to panic.. When rangers avoid losing 4 goals to a poor hearts team then maybe we should worry. They got the better of us last week, and deploy anti-football tactics against Barca(don't blame them for that, a points a point against that quality of team) but WGS is trying to play football 'the glasgow celtic way'.. You don't do that with 6 and a half footers, bullying ur way through a game, and there's no chance of 50k a week being splashed out on larsons,suttons or laudrups..so what do we do.. We live within our means, get as much CL football as we can, notch up as much experience that we can, get the bhoys used to playing together and keep the Borucs and the Naka's as happy as we can playing for the greatest club in europe.. Top of the league..we shall not be moved!!
Posted by: Ralph S on 11:12pm Sat 27 Oct 07
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases:
1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful.
2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful.
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases:
1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful.
2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful.
Posted by: OFfan, Canada on 11:15pm Sat 27 Oct 07
As crazy as you may think I am, I support both celtic and rangers. I need to say that I seen the last OF game and even though the ratio of fouls to yellow cards weren't consistant I believe the calls were fair. When did you start getting bookings for every so many non bookable offences? The fact is the yellow cards celtic got were warranted. Saying "the better team won BUT...." still makes you sound like a bunch of whiners. You might want to find the grace to take a loss. There's nothing to brag about until the final whistle at the end of the year anyway.
As crazy as you may think I am, I support both celtic and rangers. I need to say that I seen the last OF game and even though the ratio of fouls to yellow cards weren't consistant I believe the calls were fair. When did you start getting bookings for every so many non bookable offences? The fact is the yellow cards celtic got were warranted. Saying "the better team won BUT...." still makes you sound like a bunch of whiners. You might want to find the grace to take a loss. There's nothing to brag about until the final whistle at the end of the year anyway.
Posted by: bmck on 11:21pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Its quite clearly, if not a masonic, a conspiracy none the less. The better team lost, entirely assisted by the referee. I'm actually quite annoyed at Strachan for taking the injustice quite so magnanimously - another SPL lapdog.
In the next game even the ref wont stop us converting our chances when we have them.
Its quite clearly, if not a masonic, a conspiracy none the less. The better team lost, entirely assisted by the referee. I'm actually quite annoyed at Strachan for taking the injustice quite so magnanimously - another SPL lapdog.
In the next game even the ref wont stop us converting our chances when we have them.
Posted by: kennybhoy, dubai on 11:23pm Sat 27 Oct 07
OF-fan
Aye right..
Fan of both, that'll explain the use of 'you might'...'You sound'..
Should't that be 'we might'..or 'we sound'.. get back to the ice hockey and get of the fence..
OF-fan
Aye right..
Fan of both, that'll explain the use of 'you might'...'You sound'..
Should't that be 'we might'..or 'we sound'.. get back to the ice hockey and get of the fence..
Posted by: ginger, Loch Dhu on 11:32pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Kenny,
I think 50k/wk is on offer at CP but no takers. Slack pre-season transfer activity - I'm hoping holding back to strengthen in January and take the initiative.
What a laugh watching Gravesen on Thursday. Same comments as last season - no discipline, bull in china shop etc. Relief there.
Agree with the thread that some matches need to muscle up. Celts have never spent on defence. I broadly agree so long as Art between posts.
Could get good couple of seasons out of Robbie Keane.....if only.
Rambling now but footy is f....ed up. Say Nirvana was 2x Scottish clubs in CL guaranteed (not sure the rules permit no matter the success of Scottish clubs?). C&R qualify 4yrs out of 5 - get the money, but the top players still a struggle to attract, prem lge a joke challenge. Where's the attraction in that?
Kenny,
I think 50k/wk is on offer at CP but no takers. Slack pre-season transfer activity - I'm hoping holding back to strengthen in January and take the initiative.
What a laugh watching Gravesen on Thursday. Same comments as last season - no discipline, bull in china shop etc. Relief there.
Agree with the thread that some matches need to muscle up. Celts have never spent on defence. I broadly agree so long as Art between posts.
Could get good couple of seasons out of Robbie Keane.....if only.
Rambling now but footy is f....ed up. Say Nirvana was 2x Scottish clubs in CL guaranteed (not sure the rules permit no matter the success of Scottish clubs?). C&R qualify 4yrs out of 5 - get the money, but the top players still a struggle to attract, prem lge a joke challenge. Where's the attraction in that?
Posted by: Jim, Ayrshire on 11:37pm Sat 27 Oct 07
Nice to see some other people who saw what was really there last weekend. Can't blame Strachan, though, for his restraint. If the man says boo he's looking at a mega-ban from the SFA. He was right to point out that too many of the players wished they were somewhere else, even allowing for the impact of so many bookings for so little and the absence of even-handedness from McCurry. I get a little more humphed with the media pundits who zoom in on nonsense and misrepresent the facts. Look at the stats re golas for and against between Celtic and Rangers. What we hear endlessley is how marvelous the Rangers defence is whilst Celtic's is presented as useless. ONE goal difference in goals conceded! It doesn't help that there is a faction within the Celtic support who are unable to be objective about Strachan and want him out no matter what. The man could win everything in sight and still be the subject of boos from some people. C'Mon guys - get a grip. Sometimes the players go out and are just crap. It happens. But they'll get over it. So can yhou.
Nice to see some other people who saw what was really there last weekend. Can't blame Strachan, though, for his restraint. If the man says boo he's looking at a mega-ban from the SFA. He was right to point out that too many of the players wished they were somewhere else, even allowing for the impact of so many bookings for so little and the absence of even-handedness from McCurry. I get a little more humphed with the media pundits who zoom in on nonsense and misrepresent the facts. Look at the stats re golas for and against between Celtic and Rangers. What we hear endlessley is how marvelous the Rangers defence is whilst Celtic's is presented as useless. ONE goal difference in goals conceded! It doesn't help that there is a faction within the Celtic support who are unable to be objective about Strachan and want him out no matter what. The man could win everything in sight and still be the subject of boos from some people. C'Mon guys - get a grip. Sometimes the players go out and are just crap. It happens. But they'll get over it. So can yhou.
Posted by: jo, glasgow on 12:11am Sun 28 Oct 07
fantastic.."scientif
ic poll" on radio scotland..the question..did strachan get his tatics right on wednesday...!! well if not for a very late goal it would have been yes..as a result of that goal the answer ..with hindsight is no...another negative celtic slant..oh well 3 in a row will shut them up for a while...
fantastic.."scientif
ic poll" on radio scotland..the question..did strachan get his tatics right on wednesday...!! well if not for a very late goal it would have been yes..as a result of that goal the answer ..with hindsight is no...another negative celtic slant..oh well 3 in a row will shut them up for a while...
Posted by: Davy, Motherwell on 12:15am Sun 28 Oct 07
Jim,James,bmck,kenny
bhoy. What a collection of paranoid graceless losers. Just like your team.
Please go to bed and give us peace.
Jim,James,bmck,kenny
bhoy. What a collection of paranoid graceless losers. Just like your team.
Please go to bed and give us peace.
Posted by: Steven, West Lothian on 12:18am Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Ralph S[/bold] wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful. [/quote] Cousin's challenge on McManus was completely innocent. As was McCoist's happiness that his player was OK.
McGeady was the one who should have been sent off, for a shocking tackle from behind.
Ralph S wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful.
Cousin's challenge on McManus was completely innocent. As was McCoist's happiness that his player was OK.
McGeady was the one who should have been sent off, for a shocking tackle from behind.
Posted by: Tom More, Canada on 12:41am Sun 28 Oct 07
As far as I can remember, most of Celtic's nine yellow cards were for late tackles, but not particularly dirty ones. They seemed to have a bit of a problem with pace as they tried chasing down players and ended up tackling late. You see this happen quite a bit with Scott Brown. Celts worked themselves into the ground against Benfica, and Strachan was five minutes away from being hailed as a great tactician. A moment of brilliance by a 6 million pound player and now Strachan is being faulted for his strategy. Who would be a manager?
As far as I can remember, most of Celtic's nine yellow cards were for late tackles, but not particularly dirty ones. They seemed to have a bit of a problem with pace as they tried chasing down players and ended up tackling late. You see this happen quite a bit with Scott Brown. Celts worked themselves into the ground against Benfica, and Strachan was five minutes away from being hailed as a great tactician. A moment of brilliance by a 6 million pound player and now Strachan is being faulted for his strategy. Who would be a manager?
Posted by: Dee, Lurgan Co Armagh on 12:49am Sun 28 Oct 07
Davy,
Are you hurting after today or what?
Steven, West Lothian
I suppose its difficult for all OF fans to look objectively at all incidents. I don't subscribe to the Mc Coisy laughing incident buy you have to admit the challenge was "tasty" to say the least. If Mick had assulted Cousin in a similar way I feel you'd be complaining. You'd certainly feel agrieved if he had then carried a similar assault on Ferguson without some form of repremand.
Davy,
Are you hurting after today or what?
Steven, West Lothian
I suppose its difficult for all OF fans to look objectively at all incidents. I don't subscribe to the Mc Coisy laughing incident buy you have to admit the challenge was "tasty" to say the least. If Mick had assulted Cousin in a similar way I feel you'd be complaining. You'd certainly feel agrieved if he had then carried a similar assault on Ferguson without some form of repremand.
Posted by: David Smith on 12:54am Sun 28 Oct 07
Was it only two weeks ago that Strachan was telling us all how A C Milan showed Celtic how to lose with grace? Maybe he learned a lesson, but the fans are still graceless in defeat or victory.
Was it only two weeks ago that Strachan was telling us all how A C Milan showed Celtic how to lose with grace? Maybe he learned a lesson, but the fans are still graceless in defeat or victory.
Posted by: Mozza on 1:30am Sun 28 Oct 07
Jim, I worry about people like you who could supply McDonalds with Happy Meals from now until eternity with the amount of chips you have on your shoulder. Maybe you should try buying one, the free toy might cheer you up!
Jim, I worry about people like you who could supply McDonalds with Happy Meals from now until eternity with the amount of chips you have on your shoulder. Maybe you should try buying one, the free toy might cheer you up!
Posted by: Blame the ref on 3:08am Sun 28 Oct 07
Celtc lose = blame someone. Celtc lost the plot, were off the pace, outmuscled and outplayed and the degree of tackling / fouls warranted the booking count. Cousin maybe should have been booked - for the challenge soon after the [bold]fair challenge[/bold] on McManimal - but overall bookings were fair. Rangers scored 4 good goals - it was never a penalty..though the deliberate handball in the first half should have been another booking.
Celtc lose = blame someone. Celtc lost the plot, were off the pace, outmuscled and outplayed and the degree of tackling / fouls warranted the booking count. Cousin maybe should have been booked - for the challenge soon after the
fair challenge on McManimal - but overall bookings were fair. Rangers scored 4 good goals - it was never a penalty..though the deliberate handball in the first half should have been another booking.
Posted by: Ian, Bangkok on 4:28am Sun 28 Oct 07
[bold]Sour Grapes for breakfast to go with my bitter orange![/bold]
What a lovely start to the day reading the above lot of demented nonsense-still hurting bhoys!
To paraphrase Jim, James etc
All these big bad Gers's players kicked our players off the park-(yeah like Novo and Barry are both giants at 5 6 & 5 8") and remind me which team got 9 -yes 9 bookings-oh but that was because the referee was a puir masonic Celtc hater!
You bhoys got absolutely thrashed last week and you just cannot handle it-as always!
You really should grow-up and better get used to losing!
Sour Grapes for breakfast to go with my bitter orange!
What a lovely start to the day reading the above lot of demented nonsense-still hurting bhoys!
To paraphrase Jim, James etc
All these big bad Gers's players kicked our players off the park-(yeah like Novo and Barry are both giants at 5 6 & 5 8") and remind me which team got 9 -yes 9 bookings-oh but that was because the referee was a puir masonic Celtc hater!
You bhoys got absolutely thrashed last week and you just cannot handle it-as always!
You really should grow-up and better get used to losing!
Posted by: DocThoreau, Lisbon on 6:41am Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Jim[/bold] wrote:
Not an old firm game and therefore back to a semblance of normality. Celtic won convincingly against \'Well. Last week was bad - Ibrox result ref assisted and really bad luck in Lisbon. But that\'s life in what passes for the real world. The stats at Ibrox are interesting. Rangers needed 9.1 fouls before they got a booking Celtic averaged 2.3 fouls in the same game. The only stats that counted are the 3 points and the 3 goals. However, the pundits all week have been banging on about the Celtic defence. Look at the table. Rangers have conceded 1 goal less that Celtic - despite their three last week - and have scored less as well. What does that mean? Today Celtic could have scored six or seven with no significant threat at the other end. This with horrific injury problems in key positions. Tonight on a phone in a Celtic fan (not the only one)was complaining that Strachan is no use and has to go. He moaned that Strachan had said the SPL trphy is his priority and that Celtic were not going to win the Champion\'s league (without maybe Ģ40 million being spent on the team). When the presenter asked the fan whether he thought Celtic could win the Champion\'s League he was very clear that this wasn\'t about to happen but still felt that Strachan should not have been saying these things. WHY not - it\'s the real world. I would far rather see Celtic win the SPL trophy than see them do well in Europe but at the expense of the SPL. Some people need to get over the crazy notion that Strachan has not got the credentials to lead Celtic. His record so far is better than O\'Neill\'s and he has had a fraction of the money to play with. Viva Ginger.[/quote] Not entirely sure who the ref assisted more...the yellows cards for Celtic bore little consequence on the outcome of the game whereas the penalty and legitimate (McCulloch) goal Rangers were denied would seem to suggest they have just as much, if not more, right to feel aggrieved. The 'number of fouls committed' statistic you offer is laughable - Rangers could have committed 50 negligible fouls and Celtic only 1 but if that 1 merited a booking and none of the 50 did then why would the numbers matter? (The only booking that was harsh on Celtic, I believe, was that of Jarosik).
Jim wrote:
Not an old firm game and therefore back to a semblance of normality. Celtic won convincingly against \'Well. Last week was bad - Ibrox result ref assisted and really bad luck in Lisbon. But that\'s life in what passes for the real world. The stats at Ibrox are interesting. Rangers needed 9.1 fouls before they got a booking Celtic averaged 2.3 fouls in the same game. The only stats that counted are the 3 points and the 3 goals. However, the pundits all week have been banging on about the Celtic defence. Look at the table. Rangers have conceded 1 goal less that Celtic - despite their three last week - and have scored less as well. What does that mean? Today Celtic could have scored six or seven with no significant threat at the other end. This with horrific injury problems in key positions. Tonight on a phone in a Celtic fan (not the only one)was complaining that Strachan is no use and has to go. He moaned that Strachan had said the SPL trphy is his priority and that Celtic were not going to win the Champion\'s league (without maybe Ģ40 million being spent on the team). When the presenter asked the fan whether he thought Celtic could win the Champion\'s League he was very clear that this wasn\'t about to happen but still felt that Strachan should not have been saying these things. WHY not - it\'s the real world. I would far rather see Celtic win the SPL trophy than see them do well in Europe but at the expense of the SPL. Some people need to get over the crazy notion that Strachan has not got the credentials to lead Celtic. His record so far is better than O\'Neill\'s and he has had a fraction of the money to play with. Viva Ginger.
Not entirely sure who the ref assisted more...the yellows cards for Celtic bore little consequence on the outcome of the game whereas the penalty and legitimate (McCulloch) goal Rangers were denied would seem to suggest they have just as much, if not more, right to feel aggrieved. The 'number of fouls committed' statistic you offer is laughable - Rangers could have committed 50 negligible fouls and Celtic only 1 but if that 1 merited a booking and none of the 50 did then why would the numbers matter? (The only booking that was harsh on Celtic, I believe, was that of Jarosik).
Posted by: Andy Barwood, Hamilton on 6:55am Sun 28 Oct 07
Judging by the fact that the first few posts were from what I gather to be Celtic fans and then after 12.15 we had a batch of Rangers fan posts, can we presume that the posts here had been a topic of discussion in that forum of tolerance Follow Follow?
Judging by the fact that the first few posts were from what I gather to be Celtic fans and then after 12.15 we had a batch of Rangers fan posts, can we presume that the posts here had been a topic of discussion in that forum of tolerance Follow Follow?
Posted by: James Currie, Calgary, Alberta, Canada on 7:18am Sun 28 Oct 07
whoever was robust I don't know. As a long distance Rangers fan I do think however that some of the Celtic bookings were a bit weak. On the other hand, and it's the first time I've seen an old Firm game recently, (thanks to Setanta) but we saw McDonald deliberately kick the Rangers Goalie. There is no way the **** should have been allowed to stay on the park! Maybe there is something to be said for the violence in NHL ice hockey. If the situation was similar in football, sooner or later McDonald would be seen lying in a heap when no-one was looking to see what could have happened!
whoever was robust I don't know. As a long distance Rangers fan I do think however that some of the Celtic bookings were a bit weak. On the other hand, and it's the first time I've seen an old Firm game recently, (thanks to Setanta) but we saw McDonald deliberately kick the Rangers Goalie. There is no way the **** should have been allowed to stay on the park! Maybe there is something to be said for the violence in NHL ice hockey. If the situation was similar in football, sooner or later McDonald would be seen lying in a heap when no-one was looking to see what could have happened!
Posted by: Graham Whyte, Ovacik, Turkey on 7:46am Sun 28 Oct 07
James Alberta, I too am a long distance fan, but when I was asked why McDonald did that I pointed out to my mate that his first reaction was to bring his foot and leg up,like the goalie had stood on his toe, still nooreason to lash out.
James Alberta, I too am a long distance fan, but when I was asked why McDonald did that I pointed out to my mate that his first reaction was to bring his foot and leg up,like the goalie had stood on his toe, still nooreason to lash out.
Posted by: hector, londinium on 8:20am Sun 28 Oct 07
Have to say I agree with Jim and James. Rangers are entitled to play how they wish, though they are hardly advancing the cause of Scottish football playing like they belong in the fifties. That is Walter Smith to a tee.
The ref was nothing short of appalling and I still can't quite make my mind up if he was just bad/inadequate or if there was something more sinister at play? He broke up play every time Celtic had the advantage and let Rangers hack, pull, hustle, push all day. But everyone knew that's how they'd play...so why didn't Strachan?...What disappoints me most from a Celtic supporters point of view is that we had the chance to turn the screw in the summer by signing a few more players than we did. Our squad is short of experience, which is great news for the future - we are a young team - but I feel our parsimony has given rangers a foothold they don't merit.
Have to say I agree with Jim and James. Rangers are entitled to play how they wish, though they are hardly advancing the cause of Scottish football playing like they belong in the fifties. That is Walter Smith to a tee.
The ref was nothing short of appalling and I still can't quite make my mind up if he was just bad/inadequate or if there was something more sinister at play? He broke up play every time Celtic had the advantage and let Rangers hack, pull, hustle, push all day. But everyone knew that's how they'd play...so why didn't Strachan?...What disappoints me most from a Celtic supporters point of view is that we had the chance to turn the screw in the summer by signing a few more players than we did. Our squad is short of experience, which is great news for the future - we are a young team - but I feel our parsimony has given rangers a foothold they don't merit.
Posted by: Blue Knows, East Lothian on 8:28am Sun 28 Oct 07
Lets get real here boys. Rangers beat Celtic fair and square. Deal with it. What you hurting Celtic fans need to remember is that, on the day, your team was not very good at all. This sad patter about the evil masonic WASP's setting out to destroy the pure shining Celtic knights is utter disillusioned mince!. Rangers will win the SPL this year - purely beause they have the best pool of players and the best manager. Rangers fans have had a bad couple of years having to deal with poor teams and bad displays. Its character building as I think you Celts are going to find out. Get rid of the bile now guys, you'll be feeling sick enough at the end of the season.
Lets get real here boys. Rangers beat Celtic fair and square. Deal with it. What you hurting Celtic fans need to remember is that, on the day, your team was not very good at all. This sad patter about the evil masonic WASP's setting out to destroy the pure shining Celtic knights is utter disillusioned mince!. Rangers will win the SPL this year - purely beause they have the best pool of players and the best manager. Rangers fans have had a bad couple of years having to deal with poor teams and bad displays. Its character building as I think you Celts are going to find out. Get rid of the bile now guys, you'll be feeling sick enough at the end of the season.
Posted by: shug, rotterdam on 8:40am Sun 28 Oct 07
Yes, Blue Knows. When they lose it's always somebody else's fault. Never there own.
Yes, Blue Knows. When they lose it's always somebody else's fault. Never there own.
Posted by: Andrew, France on 9:29am Sun 28 Oct 07
I don't support either team. Having watched the game it was hardly a game to remember from either side. On balance I think the referee di an alright job. I certainly don't agree with any conspiracy theory. If the referee was biased surely he would have sent off McDonald for starting the brawl by kicking McGregor?
I don't support either team. Having watched the game it was hardly a game to remember from either side. On balance I think the referee di an alright job. I certainly don't agree with any conspiracy theory. If the referee was biased surely he would have sent off McDonald for starting the brawl by kicking McGregor?
Posted by: seasider, By the sea on 9:36am Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Ralph S[/bold] wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful. [/quote] A week on and you are stil as paranoid as ever. To accuse Cousin after the clash of heads has been shown over and over again to be no more than that is quite laughable, but to accuse McCoist of celebrating McManus's injury is sinister. Get a life and admit you were well and truly cuffed instead of blaming the referee (who did have a stinker) or anyone else you can think of, perhaps you could start with your wimps in midfield who bottled it.
Ralph S wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week's game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan's challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso's 'headbutt' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of 'Cheeky chappie' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton's two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful.
A week on and you are stil as paranoid as ever. To accuse Cousin after the clash of heads has been shown over and over again to be no more than that is quite laughable, but to accuse McCoist of celebrating McManus's injury is sinister. Get a life and admit you were well and truly cuffed instead of blaming the referee (who did have a stinker) or anyone else you can think of, perhaps you could start with your wimps in midfield who bottled it.
Posted by: Sam, Glasgow on 9:59am Sun 28 Oct 07
Denial! Denial!
Celtic only received two bookings, Jarosik and Donati, that could be queried.
Cousin won the ball, and the challenge was fair. He was rightly penalised for a late areal shoulder to shoulder challenge.
Celtic were very lucky to have 10, let alone 11 left on the field at the end.
Celtic had committed 26 fouls to 16.
Rangers had a good goal disallowed as well as a stonewall penalty.
McGeady skinned nobody. Which match were you guys watching?
All these accusations of biased refereeing, some of them pointing out his religion, do nothing more than highlight the fact that Celtic have the greater and more insidious level of sectarianism amongst their support. In terms of the respective songsheets, Rangers fans have cleaned up their act a lot quicker than Celtic did, going by the number of arrest for each side.
Denial! Denial!
Celtic only received two bookings, Jarosik and Donati, that could be queried.
Cousin won the ball, and the challenge was fair. He was rightly penalised for a late areal shoulder to shoulder challenge.
Celtic were very lucky to have 10, let alone 11 left on the field at the end.
Celtic had committed 26 fouls to 16.
Rangers had a good goal disallowed as well as a stonewall penalty.
McGeady skinned nobody. Which match were you guys watching?
All these accusations of biased refereeing, some of them pointing out his religion, do nothing more than highlight the fact that Celtic have the greater and more insidious level of sectarianism amongst their support. In terms of the respective songsheets, Rangers fans have cleaned up their act a lot quicker than Celtic did, going by the number of arrest for each side.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 10:01am Sun 28 Oct 07
dear oh dear...a full week later and ra celtc are still not making any excuses by bleating on about the ref....
Jim wonderful selective use of stats is a joy to behold - celtc averaged 2.3 fouls in the game - yet rangers needed 9.1 fouls before a booking - why are these two unrelated stats being used in the same sentance? Celtc's first booking came for a kick off the ball - a sending off offence in most games. How many celtc fouls were commited between that and their second booking.
Consisitent fouling by the same player is a bookable offence (ask Jarosik) but apart from that it is the nature of the foul that gets the booking - kennedy and mcgeady both went through the back of the player for theirs. Anyone with any knowledge of the rules knows that this is now an automatic booking.
Yes - there were a few tackles that culd have been bookings too - scott brown in particular committed at least two other bookable offences and Sno should have been booked at the penalty (that was given)- this would have meant that both players would been sent off and the ref chose not to do that.
To quote Jim, 'all celtc want is some consistency' - me too - I will accept a couple of extra bookings in a match if stonewall penalties are given and legit goals are not chalked off.
None of the bookings had any affect on the result - the penalty claim and the chalked off goal did - had the goal been given rangers would have topped the table.
Yet all we hear from the celtc supporters is the 'im not making excuses, but..' line
I'm only 43 - can anyone here recall when celtc lost a game fair and square without blaming someone - it hasn't happened in my lifetime
plus ca change......
dear oh dear...a full week later and ra celtc are still not making any excuses by bleating on about the ref....
Jim wonderful selective use of stats is a joy to behold - celtc averaged 2.3 fouls in the game - yet rangers needed 9.1 fouls before a booking - why are these two unrelated stats being used in the same sentance? Celtc's first booking came for a kick off the ball - a sending off offence in most games. How many celtc fouls were commited between that and their second booking.
Consisitent fouling by the same player is a bookable offence (ask Jarosik) but apart from that it is the nature of the foul that gets the booking - kennedy and mcgeady both went through the back of the player for theirs. Anyone with any knowledge of the rules knows that this is now an automatic booking.
Yes - there were a few tackles that culd have been bookings too - scott brown in particular committed at least two other bookable offences and Sno should have been booked at the penalty (that was given)- this would have meant that both players would been sent off and the ref chose not to do that.
To quote Jim, 'all celtc want is some consistency' - me too - I will accept a couple of extra bookings in a match if stonewall penalties are given and legit goals are not chalked off.
None of the bookings had any affect on the result - the penalty claim and the chalked off goal did - had the goal been given rangers would have topped the table.
Yet all we hear from the celtc supporters is the 'im not making excuses, but..' line
I'm only 43 - can anyone here recall when celtc lost a game fair and square without blaming someone - it hasn't happened in my lifetime
plus ca change......
Posted by: geo, Hillegom on 10:12am Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]shug[/bold] wrote:
Yes, Blue Knows. When they lose it\'s always somebody else\'s fault. Never there own.[/quote] As usual,no grace or display of sportsmanship.At least WGS was man enough to admit ,that Rangers,were the better side,on the day.Still a long way to go,feeling confident,that Rangers can remain ,up there, till the end o` season dramatics,which will determine which side in Glasgow,tops the table.Celtic will not have it wrapped up before xmas this time round,THAT,is a certainty.Got no time,to slag Celtic,because I love Rangers MORE,than I will ever hate Celtic,,,come on ,THE TEDDY BEARS!!!
shug wrote:
Yes, Blue Knows. When they lose it\'s always somebody else\'s fault. Never there own.
As usual,no grace or display of sportsmanship.At least WGS was man enough to admit ,that Rangers,were the better side,on the day.Still a long way to go,feeling confident,that Rangers can remain ,up there, till the end o` season dramatics,which will determine which side in Glasgow,tops the table.Celtic will not have it wrapped up before xmas this time round,THAT,is a certainty.Got no time,to slag Celtic,because I love Rangers MORE,than I will ever hate Celtic,,,come on ,THE TEDDY BEARS!!!
Posted by: Sam, Glasgow on 10:13am Sun 28 Oct 07
Defensive stats.
Yes Celtic have only conceded one more goal in the SPL, but four of those conceded by Rangers were in something of a freak match at Tynecastle, when we rested Ferguson, Darcheville and McCulloch. I don't see such a score happening again this season.
Also, two goals were scored by Falkirk when they were defeated 7-2.
In Europe, Celtic have conceded SIX times as many goals in TWO less matches against generally inferior opposition.
Cue, claims that Lyon and Stuttgart aren't as good as they were. The fact remains that they are better than Benfica or Spartak.
I they really think a defence containing Naylor, Caldwell and the cast of low grade back ups is better than Rangers' back line of Hutton, Weir, Cuellar and Papac(till Smith returns), then fair enough. It must be nice to live in a land of fairy tales.
Also, Boruc has had countless blunders this year, and remains the 2nd best keeper in Scotland after Craig Gordon's departure. Grandiose predictions of him justifying a bigger fee than Gordon are quite frankly hilarious. He is more likely to leave for nothing, since he appears to be trying to by out the final year of his contract.
However, feel free to ignore all of my comments since they represent reality.
Defensive stats.
Yes Celtic have only conceded one more goal in the SPL, but four of those conceded by Rangers were in something of a freak match at Tynecastle, when we rested Ferguson, Darcheville and McCulloch. I don't see such a score happening again this season.
Also, two goals were scored by Falkirk when they were defeated 7-2.
In Europe, Celtic have conceded SIX times as many goals in TWO less matches against generally inferior opposition.
Cue, claims that Lyon and Stuttgart aren't as good as they were. The fact remains that they are better than Benfica or Spartak.
I they really think a defence containing Naylor, Caldwell and the cast of low grade back ups is better than Rangers' back line of Hutton, Weir, Cuellar and Papac(till Smith returns), then fair enough. It must be nice to live in a land of fairy tales.
Also, Boruc has had countless blunders this year, and remains the 2nd best keeper in Scotland after Craig Gordon's departure. Grandiose predictions of him justifying a bigger fee than Gordon are quite frankly hilarious. He is more likely to leave for nothing, since he appears to be trying to by out the final year of his contract.
However, feel free to ignore all of my comments since they represent reality.
Posted by: david, Glasgow on 10:19am Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Ralph S[/bold] wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week\'s game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan\'s challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso\'s \'headbutt\' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of \'Cheeky chappie\' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton\'s two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful. [/quote] You guys need to get a life or at least a more balanced view of it!
Ralph S wrote:
The physical approach from Rangers in last week\'s game were evident in two particular cases: 1. Cousan\'s challenge on McManus. It was crude and premeditated ala Prso\'s \'headbutt\' on a Stuttgart defender a few years back. As McManus was being treated and then carried off the pitch we had the shameful sight of \'Cheeky chappie\' Ally McCoist grinning away and giving the thumbs up to Cousan on at least 3 occasions. Shameful. 2. Hutton\'s two footed lunge at McGeady, who had been skinning him time and time again. Tackle occurred right under the nose of the referee and asst referee who both simply just turned away. Shameful.
You guys need to get a life or at least a more balanced view of it!
Posted by: Rab, East Kilbride on 10:36am Sun 28 Oct 07
Strachan needs to keep on track. Sign players with skill and technique rather than just height and strength, and build a team that plays modern attractive football. We want to see the team play to win in Europe not just shut up shop and hope for a ricochet and a flukey goal in the last minute.
Last week was a poor display but we're still top of the table with rangers to come to celtic park twice.
Strachan needs to keep on track. Sign players with skill and technique rather than just height and strength, and build a team that plays modern attractive football. We want to see the team play to win in Europe not just shut up shop and hope for a ricochet and a flukey goal in the last minute.
Last week was a poor display but we're still top of the table with rangers to come to celtic park twice.
Posted by: Alba, Lennoxtown on 10:43am Sun 28 Oct 07
As always, the celtc football club show how they overestimate their own achiebvements and always try to undermine everyone else's.
They were well and truly humped by rangers. They again showed the lack of discipline that has been evident in defeat, resulting in bookings and behaviour from the gutter.
They try to deny and deflect by blaming a referee who did them huge favours in the game by not sending a player off, as they used to do with lennon.
Then the idiots come on radio shows and talk about rangers and their tactics against barcelona then have to watch their own team do the same backs against the wall act a few minutes later, except not as well.
I have never been more delighted to see celtic beaten late in a game, poetic justice for their moronic ever moaning fans.
As always, the celtc football club show how they overestimate their own achiebvements and always try to undermine everyone else's.
They were well and truly humped by rangers. They again showed the lack of discipline that has been evident in defeat, resulting in bookings and behaviour from the gutter.
They try to deny and deflect by blaming a referee who did them huge favours in the game by not sending a player off, as they used to do with lennon.
Then the idiots come on radio shows and talk about rangers and their tactics against barcelona then have to watch their own team do the same backs against the wall act a few minutes later, except not as well.
I have never been more delighted to see celtic beaten late in a game, poetic justice for their moronic ever moaning fans.
Posted by: Gerry Leach, Livingston on 10:52am Sun 28 Oct 07
Here are some stats I compiled while burning the OF game on to a DVD disc.
Rangers 15 fouls in total
LMcC 5
Cousin 3
Weir 3
4 players 1 each
2 yellow
Celtic 23 fouls in total
Brown 7
McD 4
Jar 4
Don 3
McM 2
McG 2
4 players 1 each
9 yellow
I have the times of every foul committed in the game and if anyone wants a copy of the DVD to check the accuracy they are welcome to one.
The Duke of Deer Park
Here are some stats I compiled while burning the OF game on to a DVD disc.
Rangers 15 fouls in total
LMcC 5
Cousin 3
Weir 3
4 players 1 each
2 yellow
Celtic 23 fouls in total
Brown 7
McD 4
Jar 4
Don 3
McM 2
McG 2
4 players 1 each
9 yellow
I have the times of every foul committed in the game and if anyone wants a copy of the DVD to check the accuracy they are welcome to one.
The Duke of Deer Park
Posted by: Mike, Carlisle on 10:59am Sun 28 Oct 07
Rangers played celtc off the park last week. celtc tried to kick us off the park and Scott McDonald should have been sent off inside the first 3 mins for lashing out and kicking the goalie twice. Fact is,celtc fans always try to blame everyone else and their dog when they lose rather than look at themselves and admitting they weren't good enough
Rangers played celtc off the park last week. celtc tried to kick us off the park and Scott McDonald should have been sent off inside the first 3 mins for lashing out and kicking the goalie twice. Fact is,celtc fans always try to blame everyone else and their dog when they lose rather than look at themselves and admitting they weren't good enough
Posted by: Alba, Lennoxtown on 10:59am Sun 28 Oct 07
what an utterly useless set of statistics
what an utterly useless set of statistics
Posted by: Rab, East Kilbride on 11:06am Sun 28 Oct 07
Scotland, Rangers and (against Benfica) Celtic are employing the sort of tactics that can win matches but would get football stopped if everyone did it.
This defensive approach is used mainly by weaker teams, in order to reduce any technical gap against better teams and includes a more physical approach to the game.
It's reality football as sadly we don't have the players to compete with the best of Europe in terms of technique, skill, pace & movement.
Scotland, Rangers and (against Benfica) Celtic are employing the sort of tactics that can win matches but would get football stopped if everyone did it.
This defensive approach is used mainly by weaker teams, in order to reduce any technical gap against better teams and includes a more physical approach to the game.
It's reality football as sadly we don't have the players to compete with the best of Europe in terms of technique, skill, pace & movement.
Posted by: Kris, Esex on 11:10am Sun 28 Oct 07
Gerry Leach,
Go back and watch your DVD again. Rangers had 16 fouls, Celtic had 26. Don't think we'll be taking much notice of you....
Those delusional lunatics who are accusing Cousin of an improper challenger on McManus really need to get a grip on reality. The ball was 50/50, Cousin got there first and McManus collided with him. If see it differently to that then you really shouldn't be allowed out the house, you're a danger to yourself.
Gerry Leach,
Go back and watch your DVD again. Rangers had 16 fouls, Celtic had 26. Don't think we'll be taking much notice of you....
Those delusional lunatics who are accusing Cousin of an improper challenger on McManus really need to get a grip on reality. The ball was 50/50, Cousin got there first and McManus collided with him. If see it differently to that then you really shouldn't be allowed out the house, you're a danger to yourself.
Posted by: Bill, Spain, Spain on 11:33am Sun 28 Oct 07
Why is everyone saying Celtic were unlucky on Wednesday? On another night with a bit of fortune Benfica could have scored 4 or 5. For Godīs sake get over last saurday...Rangers were by far the better team.Full Stop.
Why is everyone saying Celtic were unlucky on Wednesday? On another night with a bit of fortune Benfica could have scored 4 or 5. For Godīs sake get over last saurday...Rangers were by far the better team.Full Stop.
Posted by: Dee, Lurgan Co Armagh on 12:06pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Mike from Carlisle.
Please. Tried to kick Rangers off the park? Really - what game were you watching? And you lot call us paranoid!
Rangers absolutely deserved to win.
Some of the refs bookings were questionable - Jarosik and Donatti.
Rangers did get the benefit on a few occasions - it happens.
Mc Donald should have walked - no question. So should Mc Cullough for instigating the whole affair.
Never a pen - Mc Cullough's goal should have stood.
This is a rational analysis of the game. You should try it sometime.
Mike from Carlisle.
Please. Tried to kick Rangers off the park? Really - what game were you watching? And you lot call us paranoid!
Rangers absolutely deserved to win.
Some of the refs bookings were questionable - Jarosik and Donatti.
Rangers did get the benefit on a few occasions - it happens.
Mc Donald should have walked - no question. So should Mc Cullough for instigating the whole affair.
Never a pen - Mc Cullough's goal should have stood.
This is a rational analysis of the game. You should try it sometime.
Posted by: CelticLhad, Hamilton on 12:23pm Sun 28 Oct 07
This match was defined by the referee and his decisions. By booking one side unfairly he, in effect, took any competitive nature away from their play. Celtic are not a dirty team and have never been so under Gordon Strachen (see ScotPrem.Com (offical spl site) for the stats), we have been the cleanest side for the past 2 seasons which only shows up how bizarre the refereeing decisions were. McCurry's agenda is unfortunately clear for anyone to see.
This match was defined by the referee and his decisions. By booking one side unfairly he, in effect, took any competitive nature away from their play. Celtic are not a dirty team and have never been so under Gordon Strachen (see ScotPrem.Com (offical spl site) for the stats), we have been the cleanest side for the past 2 seasons which only shows up how bizarre the refereeing decisions were. McCurry's agenda is unfortunately clear for anyone to see.
Posted by: Skol, Black Isle on 12:32pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Absolutely laughable to blame the ref for such a one-sided affair.
If anything, Rangers were hard done by in that game decisions wise. A blatant penalty and a legitimate goal.
You can bleat all you like about statistics but if you go through the game again, it is hard to argue with many of the bookings. I will concede that Donati's was soft and that Novo should have been booked.
Celtic were very poor on Saturday and it would do some of you no harm to admit this instead of blaming the ref.
McManus is no stranger to a strong aerial challenge and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit Cousin only had eyes for the ball. As for this McCoist slander, it's pretty pathetic. He even went up the tunnel after McManus to check on him. If you're honest with yourself, taking into account McCoist's character, it's far more likely he was joking with Cousin about not remembering the game or having a hard head.
Absolutely laughable to blame the ref for such a one-sided affair.
If anything, Rangers were hard done by in that game decisions wise. A blatant penalty and a legitimate goal.
You can bleat all you like about statistics but if you go through the game again, it is hard to argue with many of the bookings. I will concede that Donati's was soft and that Novo should have been booked.
Celtic were very poor on Saturday and it would do some of you no harm to admit this instead of blaming the ref.
McManus is no stranger to a strong aerial challenge and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit Cousin only had eyes for the ball. As for this McCoist slander, it's pretty pathetic. He even went up the tunnel after McManus to check on him. If you're honest with yourself, taking into account McCoist's character, it's far more likely he was joking with Cousin about not remembering the game or having a hard head.
Posted by: Sam, Glasgow on 1:20pm Sun 28 Oct 07
26 fouls to 16 prove that Celtic tried, but failed to kick Rangers off the park.
That's what happens when you're 2nd to every ball and late in the challenge.
The use of the referee's religion as supposed proof of his prejudice against Celtic and their background is at best pathetic. Sadly, it is also sectarian.
After the false claims that Boruc is hounded for his public expression of his religion, when in fact he was questioned over his rather less acceptable gestures, we are now told that Protestant clergymen should not be allowed to referee at the highest level.
Hypocrisy, paranoia and bigotry are still alive amongst the green and "whiter than white" brigade.
26 fouls to 16 prove that Celtic tried, but failed to kick Rangers off the park.
That's what happens when you're 2nd to every ball and late in the challenge.
The use of the referee's religion as supposed proof of his prejudice against Celtic and their background is at best pathetic. Sadly, it is also sectarian.
After the false claims that Boruc is hounded for his public expression of his religion, when in fact he was questioned over his rather less acceptable gestures, we are now told that Protestant clergymen should not be allowed to referee at the highest level.
Hypocrisy, paranoia and bigotry are still alive amongst the green and "whiter than white" brigade.
Posted by: clayton-moore on 1:54pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Celtc supporters still blaming everything bar their team's ability a week later. Talk about hurting.
Don't mature adult hoops post on these sites?
Are there any mature adult hoops, or are they all just greeting faced weans?
Celtc supporters still blaming everything bar their team's ability a week later. Talk about hurting.
Don't mature adult hoops post on these sites?
Are there any mature adult hoops, or are they all just greeting faced weans?
Posted by: andy, Calgary AB on 2:07pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Good article and very true.
Rangers beat us the Smith way,the same way that they used to beat tommy burns teams.
Oneil countered with tough aggressive players and it worked.
However I believe that I would rather watch our team play the Celtic way.
Many European teams could defeat Walters style of play with smaller players.
I believe that Strachan will get it right.
Good article and very true.
Rangers beat us the Smith way,the same way that they used to beat tommy burns teams.
Oneil countered with tough aggressive players and it worked.
However I believe that I would rather watch our team play the Celtic way.
Many European teams could defeat Walters style of play with smaller players.
I believe that Strachan will get it right.
Posted by: bmck on 4:06pm Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Davy[/bold] wrote:
Jim,James,bmck,kenny bhoy. What a collection of paranoid graceless losers. Just like your team. Please go to bed and give us peace.[/quote] Man, I was just being a parody of a graceless loser - that you could have thought I was being serious does show the extent of the paranoia kicking about.
When we got that penalty today I was seeing protests outside the SFA: thankfully there was a penalty for the ref to give down the other end to save the paranoiacs (which may not be a word) sanity.
Davy wrote:
Jim,James,bmck,kenny bhoy. What a collection of paranoid graceless losers. Just like your team. Please go to bed and give us peace.
Man, I was just being a parody of a graceless loser - that you could have thought I was being serious does show the extent of the paranoia kicking about.
When we got that penalty today I was seeing protests outside the SFA: thankfully there was a penalty for the ref to give down the other end to save the paranoiacs (which may not be a word) sanity.
Posted by: kennybhoy, dubai on 8:40pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Gorrob, davy and blue knows..
Was hoping to catch up with you lads..
Watch any football this afternoon??
He he..
Davy, looking forward to hearing you losing 'with grace' altho suspect your crying into your mince and tatties by now..
Top of the league..
Normal service resumed..
Gorrob, davy and blue knows..
Was hoping to catch up with you lads..
Watch any football this afternoon??
He he..
Davy, looking forward to hearing you losing 'with grace' altho suspect your crying into your mince and tatties by now..
Top of the league..
Normal service resumed..
Posted by: Liam Shaw, Glasgow on 9:08pm Sun 28 Oct 07
When will Rangers realise that anti-football has no future? OK, Celtic have a poor record away from home in the Champions League. But an often forgotten statistic is that Celtic have won their fair share of games at home against top class European opposition. Indeed their path to the last 16 was achieved by playing attacking football.
Anti-football, will be as unsuccessful for Rangers at home, as it will be elsewhere...
When will Rangers realise that anti-football has no future? OK, Celtic have a poor record away from home in the Champions League. But an often forgotten statistic is that Celtic have won their fair share of games at home against top class European opposition. Indeed their path to the last 16 was achieved by playing attacking football.
Anti-football, will be as unsuccessful for Rangers at home, as it will be elsewhere...
Posted by: Martibhoy, Newcastle on 9:20pm Sun 28 Oct 07
Thoroughly enjoyed Rangers getting stuffed by United, Rangers are truly awful.
We had a bad day at the Death Star, but as above, normal service has resumed.
Hartley, will fight fire with fire against the hammer throwers in january and league will be over by then.
Thoroughly enjoyed Rangers getting stuffed by United, Rangers are truly awful.
We had a bad day at the Death Star, but as above, normal service has resumed.
Hartley, will fight fire with fire against the hammer throwers in january and league will be over by then.
Posted by: Frank, Glasgow on 11:56pm Sun 28 Oct 07
[quote][bold]Liam Shaw[/bold] wrote:
When will Rangers realise that anti-football has no future? OK, Celtic have a poor record away from home in the Champions League. But an often forgotten statistic is that Celtic have won their fair share of games at home against top class European opposition. Indeed their path to the last 16 was achieved by playing attacking football. Anti-football, will be as unsuccessful for Rangers at home, as it will be elsewhere...[/quote] Don't forget that Barca manager Frank Rijkaard said Celtic played "anti-football".
Liam Shaw wrote:
When will Rangers realise that anti-football has no future? OK, Celtic have a poor record away from home in the Champions League. But an often forgotten statistic is that Celtic have won their fair share of games at home against top class European opposition. Indeed their path to the last 16 was achieved by playing attacking football. Anti-football, will be as unsuccessful for Rangers at home, as it will be elsewhere...
Don't forget that Barca manager Frank Rijkaard said Celtic played "anti-football".