Suits are just being perverse Ian Bell: columnist of the year CAUSING OFFENCE is a trait for right-thinking folk to deplore. It should sound as despicable, I suspect, as a decent family newspaper allowing those terrible Castle Greyskull jokes. Who could dream of ever permitting such a thing?
It falls into the category of saying
not-nice things about Tory Boy
capitalists who happen to be in the local metals-and-football business. You wouldn't. It's not, if you know what I mean, good for the career.
If you know what's good for you, and before you can spit, you'll be talking about the Ibrox "family", or or worse, "heritage".
I know: these are very cheap shots. Bargain basement, and far beneath us all. But our only Glasgow Rangers has been built around the idea that there is us, then them. Or rather, "Them". Tragically, I was born to be one of those. But - and if I can only get this speck of ancestral grit from my teeth - the Gers this week have a point.
Nowhere else on this continent, or on any continent, would a nation's latest best hope be hindered as Rangers have been hindered by the SPL. I know: rules is rules, and David Murray does blustering the way a Scottish spring does rainfall. I would not, from choice, wish to aid the persuaded ones. But still, Rangers really do have a point.
You could frame this argument in various ways. One is actually
simplistic: who cares about the
Scottish Cup, or about the last week in May? This is a person of a Hibs variety speaking. That blasted trinket
has mattered more to my tribe than it has ever mattered to anyone. But seriously: an entire fixture list and a European trophy must depend on a piece of cheap tin? I think not.
Secondly, there is the paranoia of the persuaded. Rangers-type folk
like to believe that the world is arranged in a conspiracy against them.
The rest of us hold to the equal-and-opposite view. The SPL is not, in fact, a cabal orchestrated for the destruction of one football club. On the other hand, there are always penalty decisions we could discuss.
I don't like the Old Firm. That's as basic as I can be. I care for neither half, and I despise the history they insist on bringing, like a waster with a half-pint of Buckie, to every party. We can cope with that, though.
I'm not interested, meanwhile, in the bizarre idea that what is good for Ibrox is bad for Parkhead, and vice versa. If true, so what? A chief executive of a major employer in the east end, say, of a major city - let's call that Glasgow, and him Peter - will do his level best for his firm. Someone in the metals business, having perhaps bought a couple of interesting vineyards lately, will take the opposing view. Fair enough. Again: so what?
But let's ask what we would say if a tawdry "fixtures pile-up" seemed to be obstructing
the progress of a smallish
club from a very tiny country in an unlikely effort to claim a major European trophy. We would laugh, I think. Not at the club, but at its
masters and mentors and suits.
Walter Smith has won his bet with the Ibrox purists. Winning "ugly" still gets you to European finals: what was the alternative? Craig
Levein does not put out bad football sides, but 3-1 spoke for itself. There was the sense of a Rangers squad that has decided to bite the bullet, take all the crap, and simply go on. The football may yet become
prettier as a result.
The legal position would no doubt require some research. The pawing and poking of the Old Firm would probably require adjudication by Dr John Reid's former very best boss. But seriously: if Rangers lose the Uefa Cup because some SPL dink decided that fixture lists are
sacrosanct, the SPL itself would stand serious legal examination. Just a thought.
Two things struck me yesterday. First was the image of Walter Smith behaving like a man whose job is merely half-done. The second - slightly new for Castle Greyskull - was the ubiquity of Saltires in the crowd. A Scottish team? Rangers? I'll give it a try if they will.
Again, I'm being deeply unfair in the sure knowledge that I'm being deeply unfair. The attitude of the SPL, meanwhile, is beyond equity, and beyond all my cheap jokes at the expense of Sir David Murray et (not the pies) al. Oor Premiership is being actually perverse. Why?
This news just in: we're not actually
quite as good at "the football" as we sometimes used to dream. There are mountains still to be climbed. So why demand that our least-
unsuccessful club crawl upwards with hands and feet bound?
Yes, I know: if GRFC were
actually to win the damned thing, entire new definitions
for the word "insufferability"
would have to be prepared. I
never pretended that
"unbiased" is in my
language. Honesty demands,
nevertheless, that we
admit that they - never mind They - have a point. The
injustice of piling games on Rangers at this moment is rank.
I write about politics, now and then. It's a living. But every time I make the attempt I wind up thinking a couple of things. First, what an odd little country. Secondly, it occurs to me: wouldn't you think that an old society with certain
historic problems would seek to make life easier for itself, or just play football instead?
The SPL's attitude towards
Rangers and fixtures complications offers a certain picture, I think, to the wider world. Look, it says,
we'll tie both arms behind our
back, then break our knees, then roll over for you. We're a very
sporting lot.
But not, in any world, too bright. Why would I hate the SPL so much? This: those suits have actually made me agree with David
Murray. Damn.
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Posted by: Supershug, Eaglesham on 10:39pm Sat 10 May 08
Ian, you've done something here that you have done in your political pieces of late: indulged in an incoherent ramble with very little attention to the facts.
"Craig Levein does not put out bad football sides, but 3-1 spoke for itself."
If David Murray is right that "the world is laughing at us", they must also be scoffing at what you will realise by Sunday morning is one of the most accidentally ironic lines you have ever written.
Ian, you've done something here that you have done in your political pieces of late: indulged in an incoherent ramble with very little attention to the facts.
"Craig Levein does not put out bad football sides, but 3-1 spoke for itself."
If David Murray is right that "the world is laughing at us", they must also be scoffing at what you will realise by Sunday morning is one of the most accidentally ironic lines you have ever written.
Posted by: Gordon Johnston on 11:32pm Sat 10 May 08
The SFA's man McCurry sertainly did plenty to assist Rangers against Dundee Utd. A shameful display of bias from an outright blatent cheat.
The SFA's man McCurry sertainly did plenty to assist Rangers against Dundee Utd. A shameful display of bias from an outright blatent cheat.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:37pm Sat 10 May 08
does anyone actually read and edit this crass, dire piece of vomit pretneding to be journalism?
as with all scottish journos these days, they are too scared of feeling the breath of peter liewell on their shoulder (or perhaps they fear for their windows and the potential visit from the self styled 'greatest fans in the world') and insist on pleading their anti rangers credentials when having to be honest for once and write a piece that does not paint rangers and their fans as panto villians.
still he does manage to get in a 'i'm one of 'those' dig, a shot at castle greyskull (even the worst of tims know that is where the good guys live) and a pathetic lie about saltires only recently being flown at ibrox. oh and lets chuck in a few about refereeing decisions going rangers way - because thats the only way they ever go (if you don;t count those that have went celtc's way in the last 5 weeks of course)
no other country has so much of society terrified of offending a set of supporters who are hell bent on being offended and find it anywhere and everywhere - and in a country where very little actually exists. note the perma-outraged reading this later - anti celtc is not anti catholic. there is nothing wrong with disliking your rivals.
so we end up with drival like this - an apology from a coward of a journalist for having the temerity to say that perhaps, maybe just perhaps, rangers got a raw deal from the Supporting Peter Liewell (SPL).
does anyone actually read and edit this crass, dire piece of vomit pretneding to be journalism?
as with all scottish journos these days, they are too scared of feeling the breath of peter liewell on their shoulder (or perhaps they fear for their windows and the potential visit from the self styled 'greatest fans in the world') and insist on pleading their anti rangers credentials when having to be honest for once and write a piece that does not paint rangers and their fans as panto villians.
still he does manage to get in a 'i'm one of 'those' dig, a shot at castle greyskull (even the worst of tims know that is where the good guys live) and a pathetic lie about saltires only recently being flown at ibrox. oh and lets chuck in a few about refereeing decisions going rangers way - because thats the only way they ever go (if you don;t count those that have went celtc's way in the last 5 weeks of course)
no other country has so much of society terrified of offending a set of supporters who are hell bent on being offended and find it anywhere and everywhere - and in a country where very little actually exists. note the perma-outraged reading this later - anti celtc is not anti catholic. there is nothing wrong with disliking your rivals.
so we end up with drival like this - an apology from a coward of a journalist for having the temerity to say that perhaps, maybe just perhaps, rangers got a raw deal from the Supporting Peter Liewell (SPL).
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:45pm Sat 10 May 08
why, gordon johnstone, i recall a game, not too long ago (this very season in fact) when rangers where denied an even more clear penalty (a blatant handball) and had an even more clearly onside goal disallowed - the ref that day was Mr McCurry too.
I don't recall your post that week suggesting that Mr McCurry was a cheat - did I miss it?
Or is it only when decisions go for the Rangers that referees become cheats?
why, gordon johnstone, i recall a game, not too long ago (this very season in fact) when rangers where denied an even more clear penalty (a blatant handball) and had an even more clearly onside goal disallowed - the ref that day was Mr McCurry too.
I don't recall your post that week suggesting that Mr McCurry was a cheat - did I miss it?
Or is it only when decisions go for the Rangers that referees become cheats?
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:45pm Sat 10 May 08
why, gordon johnstone, i recall a game, not too long ago (this very season in fact) when rangers where denied an even more clear penalty (a blatant handball) and had an even more clearly onside goal disallowed - the ref that day was Mr McCurry too.
I don't recall your post that week suggesting that Mr McCurry was a cheat - did I miss it?
Or is it only when decisions go for the Rangers that referees become cheats?
why, gordon johnstone, i recall a game, not too long ago (this very season in fact) when rangers where denied an even more clear penalty (a blatant handball) and had an even more clearly onside goal disallowed - the ref that day was Mr McCurry too.
I don't recall your post that week suggesting that Mr McCurry was a cheat - did I miss it?
Or is it only when decisions go for the Rangers that referees become cheats?
Posted by: Ian, Embra on 11:48pm Sat 10 May 08
Castle Greyskull is the home of He-Man and the Sorceress. Why do you think that is a term of abuse?
Castle Greyskull is the home of He-Man and the Sorceress. Why do you think that is a term of abuse?
Posted by: ruairi, belfast on 12:05am Sun 11 May 08
You Ranger's fans dont even know when someone's written a pro-rangers piece of 'winalot' journalism.
You Ranger's fans dont even know when someone's written a pro-rangers piece of 'winalot' journalism.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 12:11am Sun 11 May 08
ian, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that you are unaware that for years that celtc fans referred to ibrox as castle greyskull - intended as a slur - it took many years of pointing out that greyskull was, as you say, the home of the good guys before the penny dropped and they stopped.
ruari - you are a perfect example of the typical tim who will ignore the many digs at rangers in this piece and instead focus on the one sentence that is even vaguely pro-rangers
ian, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend that you are unaware that for years that celtc fans referred to ibrox as castle greyskull - intended as a slur - it took many years of pointing out that greyskull was, as you say, the home of the good guys before the penny dropped and they stopped.
ruari - you are a perfect example of the typical tim who will ignore the many digs at rangers in this piece and instead focus on the one sentence that is even vaguely pro-rangers
Posted by: thevoiceofreason on 12:27am Sun 11 May 08
Ian Bell - I have to take issue with your comment that:
"Craig Levein does not put out bad football sides, but 3-1 spoke for itself."
Did you actually see the game and the shameful display of refereeing on display? And please refrain from falling back on bracketing Celtic with Rangers by referring to the "Old Firm" as if we are some sort of club of which membership brings some form of mutual benefits. Rangers have tried to manipulate the media and the authorities in every way possible to ensure that they win as many trophies as possible this season. You of all people (I've always respected most of your articles) seem to have fallen for the argument that the football world should stop domestically to help Rangers in the UEFA cup. Can you explain why? Do Rangers, who have gone out of their way to avoid assisting other Scottish teams who have in the past sought postponement of games to help them in Europe(ask Hearts fans) and who withdraw players from a Scotland squad so they would be fresh for a game against Celtic, deserve the support of the wider Scottish footballing community. I don't think so. Remember that they have already had the season extended to assist them, to the inconvenience of all other top 6 clubs. Can't see how this is "hindering" Rangers as you suggest.
Anyway, all the extensions in the world will not avoid the inevitable humping they will receive in Manchester - just desserts for a team who's limited and negative style have done nothing to promote Scottish football.
And Ian, you say postponing the Cup Final is unimportant. I think if your own faves were preparing for it, you would have been mightily huffed.
Ian Bell - I have to take issue with your comment that:
"Craig Levein does not put out bad football sides, but 3-1 spoke for itself."
Did you actually see the game and the shameful display of refereeing on display? And please refrain from falling back on bracketing Celtic with Rangers by referring to the "Old Firm" as if we are some sort of club of which membership brings some form of mutual benefits. Rangers have tried to manipulate the media and the authorities in every way possible to ensure that they win as many trophies as possible this season. You of all people (I've always respected most of your articles) seem to have fallen for the argument that the football world should stop domestically to help Rangers in the UEFA cup. Can you explain why? Do Rangers, who have gone out of their way to avoid assisting other Scottish teams who have in the past sought postponement of games to help them in Europe(ask Hearts fans) and who withdraw players from a Scotland squad so they would be fresh for a game against Celtic, deserve the support of the wider Scottish footballing community. I don't think so. Remember that they have already had the season extended to assist them, to the inconvenience of all other top 6 clubs. Can't see how this is "hindering" Rangers as you suggest.
Anyway, all the extensions in the world will not avoid the inevitable humping they will receive in Manchester - just desserts for a team who's limited and negative style have done nothing to promote Scottish football.
And Ian, you say postponing the Cup Final is unimportant. I think if your own faves were preparing for it, you would have been mightily huffed.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 12:39am Sun 11 May 08
the voice of reason - we feel your pain...
where was your 'reasonable voice' after the 'shameful displays' refereeing in the past few weeks that ensured the points went celtcs way?
all we asked for was the same courtesy extended to celtc on their run to their failed UEFA final - a week off to prepare and no more than two games a week for the season. and we didn't as your lot did at that time threaten that our fans may riot if they didn;t get their way - media and SPL manipulation indeed....
still as I said - we feel your pain and are having a right good laugh at it.....
the voice of reason - we feel your pain...
where was your 'reasonable voice' after the 'shameful displays' refereeing in the past few weeks that ensured the points went celtcs way?
all we asked for was the same courtesy extended to celtc on their run to their failed UEFA final - a week off to prepare and no more than two games a week for the season. and we didn't as your lot did at that time threaten that our fans may riot if they didn;t get their way - media and SPL manipulation indeed....
still as I said - we feel your pain and are having a right good laugh at it.....
Posted by: Tony, Glasgow on 1:03am Sun 11 May 08
Who kidnapped Ian Bell? Or is he drunk? Congrats on this piece of fiction imagining youself getting back to your ancestral grit. Grit is difficult to swallow, though.
This is a piece long on rhetoric and short on facts.
Can I ask what more you would have proposed we do to assist Rangers win both the UEFA cup and the league? That's where all critics of Lex Gold and Ian Blair have fallen down. Even David Murray could not come up with a solution but still wants to apportion blame elsewhere.
Mr. Bell proposes we devalue the Scottish Cup. Fair enough, it's only QOTS who are affected, and a small number of fans who booked once in a lifetime breaks to be back here for the tie. So what? Rangers needs in the UEFA cup are much bigger than that. The needs of the other blue team are expendable.
At least it's a change from the standard laptop loyal response from Leckie, Waddell and Forsyth to allow them to play St. Mirren after everyone else has finished their fixtures. It won't matter anyway. It's not as if Ranges will need a last minute penalty award to ensure the unmentionables don't win on goal difference as in 2003. Rangers don't need to McCurry favours from any particular ref. They all know their duty.
The league can be extended for as long as we need. Never mind the European championships. If the bead rattlers (copyright - this very paper) in Spain can't see the merits of Novo and Cuellar's claims for a guaranteed starting place, hell mend them.
As for players holidays, don't make me laugh. Fraser Wishart, head of the players Union, will ensure that his members know that their deposits and honeymoon arrangements come a long second behind considering the needs of the establishment club.
I mean, its not as if any other club challenging in Europe had to play 4 games in 8 days
(Middlesborough last year or Celtic in 1969 or.... the point is, they were not the Gers). So Celtic were ordered to play Hearts 24 hours after coming back from Europe or they were told to play 2 games in one day. Did you not hear me? They don't need that assistance. They get corners and free kicks for nothing. We need penalties and amnesties from bookings to balance that.
I will not hold my breath waiting to hear a rational and informed account of how we could provide a fair fixture environment for all SPL clubs when you sober up, Mr. Bell. It is enough that you realigned yourself to your birthright.
Who kidnapped Ian Bell? Or is he drunk? Congrats on this piece of fiction imagining youself getting back to your ancestral grit. Grit is difficult to swallow, though.
This is a piece long on rhetoric and short on facts.
Can I ask what more you would have proposed we do to assist Rangers win both the UEFA cup and the league? That's where all critics of Lex Gold and Ian Blair have fallen down. Even David Murray could not come up with a solution but still wants to apportion blame elsewhere.
Mr. Bell proposes we devalue the Scottish Cup. Fair enough, it's only QOTS who are affected, and a small number of fans who booked once in a lifetime breaks to be back here for the tie. So what? Rangers needs in the UEFA cup are much bigger than that. The needs of the other blue team are expendable.
At least it's a change from the standard laptop loyal response from Leckie, Waddell and Forsyth to allow them to play St. Mirren after everyone else has finished their fixtures. It won't matter anyway. It's not as if Ranges will need a last minute penalty award to ensure the unmentionables don't win on goal difference as in 2003. Rangers don't need to McCurry favours from any particular ref. They all know their duty.
The league can be extended for as long as we need. Never mind the European championships. If the bead rattlers (copyright - this very paper) in Spain can't see the merits of Novo and Cuellar's claims for a guaranteed starting place, hell mend them.
As for players holidays, don't make me laugh. Fraser Wishart, head of the players Union, will ensure that his members know that their deposits and honeymoon arrangements come a long second behind considering the needs of the establishment club.
I mean, its not as if any other club challenging in Europe had to play 4 games in 8 days
(Middlesborough last year or Celtic in 1969 or.... the point is, they were not the Gers). So Celtic were ordered to play Hearts 24 hours after coming back from Europe or they were told to play 2 games in one day. Did you not hear me? They don't need that assistance. They get corners and free kicks for nothing. We need penalties and amnesties from bookings to balance that.
I will not hold my breath waiting to hear a rational and informed account of how we could provide a fair fixture environment for all SPL clubs when you sober up, Mr. Bell. It is enough that you realigned yourself to your birthright.
Posted by: Concerned on 1:48am Sun 11 May 08
Has the Sunday Herald got so cash-strapped that it's finally sacked all its sub-editors? I've never read such incoherent mince.
Has the Sunday Herald got so cash-strapped that it's finally sacked all its sub-editors? I've never read such incoherent mince.
Posted by: Sydneysider, Oz on 1:49am Sun 11 May 08
Ian Bell - not sure how or why you are the columnist of the year. This disjointed and tangential article makes little sense. I suspect you were on the whisky at the time... either that or you have the early onset of alzheimers.. Stick to politics.
Ian Bell - not sure how or why you are the columnist of the year. This disjointed and tangential article makes little sense. I suspect you were on the whisky at the time... either that or you have the early onset of alzheimers.. Stick to politics.
Posted by: Andrew, Australia on 3:09am Sun 11 May 08
Ian Bell:Columnist of the year!
Mr Bell- Saltires at Ibrox!
I think you will find that the majority of Rangers fans can swear allegence to both our Scottish flag and the Union Jack - don't act so surprised!
Ian Bell:Columnist of the year!
Mr Bell- Saltires at Ibrox!
I think you will find that the majority of Rangers fans can swear allegence to both our Scottish flag and the Union Jack - don't act so surprised!
Posted by: Wee George, NZ on 3:38am Sun 11 May 08
Tony, Ian Bell may well have been drunk - perhaps he was in the same bar as yourself?
As you have shown it's quite easy to write a piece "long on rhetoric and short on facts". It's quite hard to believe how short-sighted football fans can become when decisions are perceived to favour their rivals. Has cheating by officials ever happened? Probably it has, but largely bad decisions are made out of simple error or incompetence - rarely bias. I once made the point in the sister paper to this that the Old Firm probably have more bad decisions against them than for. The difference is, the OF normally go on to win the game anyway, so the need for a whinge is removed. Woe betide the poor refs - and Scottish society - should the bad decisions in question happen in a game between the sides. We could both probably fill a few screens here of supposed injustices against our own particular side - but why let the facts get in the way of a good whinge, eh?
Yes, it was wrong what happened to Celtic in 1969. Just as it was wrong when teams, including Rangers, had to play two games in one day, or even play on Christmas Day. Does that make it okay today, given the physical demands on players? One might have a case for saying that FIFA should charge the SPL with bringing the game into disrepute. And Tony, do yourself a favour - don't listen to dummy-spitters like Chris Sutton ©2003. He (perhaps like yourself?) suffered from selective memory.
Terrible stuff, the demon drink.
Tony, Ian Bell may well have been drunk - perhaps he was in the same bar as yourself?
As you have shown it's quite easy to write a piece "long on rhetoric and short on facts". It's quite hard to believe how short-sighted football fans can become when decisions are perceived to favour their rivals. Has cheating by officials ever happened? Probably it has, but largely bad decisions are made out of simple error or incompetence - rarely bias. I once made the point in the sister paper to this that the Old Firm probably have more bad decisions against them than for. The difference is, the OF normally go on to win the game anyway, so the need for a whinge is removed. Woe betide the poor refs - and Scottish society - should the bad decisions in question happen in a game between the sides. We could both probably fill a few screens here of supposed injustices against our own particular side - but why let the facts get in the way of a good whinge, eh?
Yes, it was wrong what happened to Celtic in 1969. Just as it was wrong when teams, including Rangers, had to play two games in one day, or even play on Christmas Day. Does that make it okay today, given the physical demands on players? One might have a case for saying that FIFA should charge the SPL with bringing the game into disrepute. And Tony, do yourself a favour - don't listen to dummy-spitters like Chris Sutton ©2003. He (perhaps like yourself?) suffered from selective memory.
Terrible stuff, the demon drink.
Posted by: The Celts are Here on 4:37am Sun 11 May 08
Wee George: I think what Tony is referring to is the fact that there were many factors that Ian Bell is either oblivious to or choosing to ignore in order to bang out an opinion piece that adds nothing to the debate. It's only football, after all (I wonder if the fee for such pieces is less).
He does nothing to address such issues as when these games should be played. For example, Celtic have already had to contact three national football associations who expected first-team players to join with squads for Euro 2008 to ask for these players to be spared for domestic duty. That's because the SPL has already extended the season against Celtic's wishes (as well as Dundee Utd, St Mirren, and Hibs). All associations had, incidentally, been asked by UEFA to ensure their seasons finished on time because of the small matter of an international showpiece championship, considered important to some.
Should Celtic be expected to play their final match without at least three key players so that Rangers can have a rest - as Rangers wanted? Or should Rangers be allowed to play their last game separately, knowing exactly what is required to win the league? If you or Mr Bell think so, your opinions fly in the face of all modern practice.
Bell ignores - as does the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (part of the GMB) - the fact that about 150 players have already had their holidays arbitrarily cut and were expected to stand for a further cut without consultation. I don't know if your union would stand for that but I would expect mine to do better. One Dundee Utd player, for example, has already had to pay £1000 to rearrange flights for his disrupted family holiday. Last I saw, Rangers weren't offering compensation, for the good of the Scottish game.
I wonder if they would have footed the bill - £1000 per player for re-arranged holidays, plus a week's wages per player and official compensation (roughly ranging from about £300 to £30,000).
Then there were people like St Mirren's Gus McPherson and Andy Millen (avid Rangers fans), planning FIFA coaching badges - with huge implications for career development and future opportunities. These were all to be discarded because Rangers had declined to re-arrange a Gretna match they asked to be postponed, when they had free dates in December, gambling that they would be out of Europe before April.
Then again, there was the failure to strengthen their squad in the January transfer window, preferring instead to cash in on Alan Hutton, try desperately to sell Daniel Cousin against FIFA rules, trade goalies, take a couple of players on loan and go on a wild goose chase to Italy (with Daily Record in tow) pursuing a player who preferred to sign for a Serie B club. Not exactly professional.
And of course, having neglected to assemble a squad capable of meeting these rigours, they twice needed replays to progress to the Scottish Cup final, and took 300 minutes of football plus penalties to overcome two first division sides, coincidentally, having rested captain Barry Ferguson for both ties.
And of course, for the good of the Scottish game, Rangers withdrew four players from Craig Burley's first Scotland international, all of whom were declared fit ON THE NIGHT OF THE GAME for the following weekend's match with Celtic, who had delivered all their players for duty.
And, of course, let's not consider Queen of the South. Never mind the people - probably thousands - from Dumfries and Galloway who had arranged time off work, accommodation etc to bring their families to Glasgow for the biggest match in their history.
Let's accept that they don't deserve a mention. Don't you think that the SFA might, in the interests of good manners never mind the rules of the association, have consulted with them before privately offering to move the final for Rangers - something reported in the Daily Record before any member club (except Rangers) had been consulted?
And the "precedents" of Rangers refusing any flexibility to Celtic in 2003 - for the UEFA Cup final campaign - or having received help from Hearts and then refusing to reciprocate in the Tynecastle Club's first ever Champions League Campaign. Do they merit a mention?
Might a much-vaunted political writer have been expected to take consideration of the facts and context before ruminating on the matter?
And of course, yesterday's 3-1 speaks for itself - not of any <i>help</i> Rangers might have received.
Wee George: I think what Tony is referring to is the fact that there were many factors that Ian Bell is either oblivious to or choosing to ignore in order to bang out an opinion piece that adds nothing to the debate. It's only football, after all (I wonder if the fee for such pieces is less).
He does nothing to address such issues as when these games should be played. For example, Celtic have already had to contact three national football associations who expected first-team players to join with squads for Euro 2008 to ask for these players to be spared for domestic duty. That's because the SPL has already extended the season against Celtic's wishes (as well as Dundee Utd, St Mirren, and Hibs). All associations had, incidentally, been asked by UEFA to ensure their seasons finished on time because of the small matter of an international showpiece championship, considered important to some.
Should Celtic be expected to play their final match without at least three key players so that Rangers can have a rest - as Rangers wanted? Or should Rangers be allowed to play their last game separately, knowing exactly what is required to win the league? If you or Mr Bell think so, your opinions fly in the face of all modern practice.
Bell ignores - as does the Scottish Professional Footballers Association (part of the GMB) - the fact that about 150 players have already had their holidays arbitrarily cut and were expected to stand for a further cut without consultation. I don't know if your union would stand for that but I would expect mine to do better. One Dundee Utd player, for example, has already had to pay £1000 to rearrange flights for his disrupted family holiday. Last I saw, Rangers weren't offering compensation, for the good of the Scottish game.
I wonder if they would have footed the bill - £1000 per player for re-arranged holidays, plus a week's wages per player and official compensation (roughly ranging from about £300 to £30,000).
Then there were people like St Mirren's Gus McPherson and Andy Millen (avid Rangers fans), planning FIFA coaching badges - with huge implications for career development and future opportunities. These were all to be discarded because Rangers had declined to re-arrange a Gretna match they asked to be postponed, when they had free dates in December, gambling that they would be out of Europe before April.
Then again, there was the failure to strengthen their squad in the January transfer window, preferring instead to cash in on Alan Hutton, try desperately to sell Daniel Cousin against FIFA rules, trade goalies, take a couple of players on loan and go on a wild goose chase to Italy (with Daily Record in tow) pursuing a player who preferred to sign for a Serie B club. Not exactly professional.
And of course, having neglected to assemble a squad capable of meeting these rigours, they twice needed replays to progress to the Scottish Cup final, and took 300 minutes of football plus penalties to overcome two first division sides, coincidentally, having rested captain Barry Ferguson for both ties.
And of course, for the good of the Scottish game, Rangers withdrew four players from Craig Burley's first Scotland international, all of whom were declared fit ON THE NIGHT OF THE GAME for the following weekend's match with Celtic, who had delivered all their players for duty.
And, of course, let's not consider Queen of the South. Never mind the people - probably thousands - from Dumfries and Galloway who had arranged time off work, accommodation etc to bring their families to Glasgow for the biggest match in their history.
Let's accept that they don't deserve a mention. Don't you think that the SFA might, in the interests of good manners never mind the rules of the association, have consulted with them before privately offering to move the final for Rangers - something reported in the Daily Record before any member club (except Rangers) had been consulted?
And the "precedents" of Rangers refusing any flexibility to Celtic in 2003 - for the UEFA Cup final campaign - or having received help from Hearts and then refusing to reciprocate in the Tynecastle Club's first ever Champions League Campaign. Do they merit a mention?
Might a much-vaunted political writer have been expected to take consideration of the facts and context before ruminating on the matter?
And of course, yesterday's 3-1 speaks for itself - not of any <i>help</i> Rangers might have received.
Posted by: Jamie Waddell, Muscat, Oman on 5:17am Sun 11 May 08
I don't know whats worse, stereotypes or journo's living off them!
Castle Grey Skull! A 5 star stadium!
At the time of readin g this Craig Levine was throwing his rattle out of the pram and paying his subscription to the consiracy theory club (run by journo's.
Scottish football is a bad joke. The refereeing is not malicious, simply incompetent. The power in charge are an embarrassment. As an ex-pat abroad I try to explain to other nationalities that whilst Rangers have done Scotland proud the biggest obstacles are at home! We even have Celtic fans so jealous and bitter they instigate polls on websites!
There is a poison amongst both sets of OF fans,as a Rangers fan I'm not happy with it but it is fed and encourage by journo's like you. Remember when Le Guen came and all some journos (not fans) wanted to question was what school his kids would go to and asked questions about his religion!
I don't know whats worse, stereotypes or journo's living off them!
Castle Grey Skull! A 5 star stadium!
At the time of readin g this Craig Levine was throwing his rattle out of the pram and paying his subscription to the consiracy theory club (run by journo's.
Scottish football is a bad joke. The refereeing is not malicious, simply incompetent. The power in charge are an embarrassment. As an ex-pat abroad I try to explain to other nationalities that whilst Rangers have done Scotland proud the biggest obstacles are at home! We even have Celtic fans so jealous and bitter they instigate polls on websites!
There is a poison amongst both sets of OF fans,as a Rangers fan I'm not happy with it but it is fed and encourage by journo's like you. Remember when Le Guen came and all some journos (not fans) wanted to question was what school his kids would go to and asked questions about his religion!
Posted by: Bryce Curdy on 5:54am Sun 11 May 08
Jamie Waddell - some of the refereeing is merely incompetent rather than malicious, but when one particular referee's 'mistakes' continually favour one particular club, the laws of statistics tell any fairly intelligent person that random incompetence is becoming less and less likely. It's like tossing a coin up and it keeps on landing one way. There were already big and legitimate question marks against McCurry's impartiality. Three crucial mistakes all favouring Rangers later(and they were absolute shockers) and any lingering doubt should be removed.
Jamie Waddell - some of the refereeing is merely incompetent rather than malicious, but when one particular referee's 'mistakes' continually favour one particular club, the laws of statistics tell any fairly intelligent person that random incompetence is becoming less and less likely. It's like tossing a coin up and it keeps on landing one way. There were already big and legitimate question marks against McCurry's impartiality. Three crucial mistakes all favouring Rangers later(and they were absolute shockers) and any lingering doubt should be removed.
Posted by: Bryce Curdy on 6:06am Sun 11 May 08
gorrob - I wish Rangers fans and the idiots in the media would stop lying about Celtic being helped in 2003. Let me point out the obvious differences:
1. Dundee AGREED to the game being BROUGHT FORWARD three days. It suited tham as they were preparing for the cup final. Dundee Utd. did NOT AGREE to POSTPONING yesterday's match.
2. The arrangement did not affect any other club.
3. The arrangement did not extend the season.
4. Celtic had not already benefitted from a decision which helped one club and one club only and which the other clubs disagreed with.
5. The arrangement did NOT help Celtic in the SPL. In fact it meant they sacrificed three days preparation for a crucial match, the second last SPL game of the campaign. They conceded two goals in the match which ultimately cost them the title. Likewise in the Scottish Cup Celtic rested almost their entire first team and lost. I had no complaints about either decision. Unlike Rearrangers, we realised we cannot expect to have our cake and eat it and made tough decisions. Rest players and sacrifice SPL preparation time to try and win the UEFA Cup. Rangers are not prepared to do this and it stinks.
Please stop lying about this.
gorrob - I wish Rangers fans and the idiots in the media would stop lying about Celtic being helped in 2003. Let me point out the obvious differences:
1. Dundee AGREED to the game being BROUGHT FORWARD three days. It suited tham as they were preparing for the cup final. Dundee Utd. did NOT AGREE to POSTPONING yesterday's match.
2. The arrangement did not affect any other club.
3. The arrangement did not extend the season.
4. Celtic had not already benefitted from a decision which helped one club and one club only and which the other clubs disagreed with.
5. The arrangement did NOT help Celtic in the SPL. In fact it meant they sacrificed three days preparation for a crucial match, the second last SPL game of the campaign. They conceded two goals in the match which ultimately cost them the title. Likewise in the Scottish Cup Celtic rested almost their entire first team and lost. I had no complaints about either decision. Unlike Rearrangers, we realised we cannot expect to have our cake and eat it and made tough decisions. Rest players and sacrifice SPL preparation time to try and win the UEFA Cup. Rangers are not prepared to do this and it stinks.
Please stop lying about this.
Posted by: Andrew M, ABZ on 7:01am Sun 11 May 08
After your Kenny Hodgart embarrassment, I'd have thought that the herald blokes would have been told to desist with the [italic]sideways look[/italic], [italic]wry[/italic] and [italic]pithy[/italic] football articles, in the event that they offend anyone. Or does that only apply to rahoops?
After your Kenny Hodgart embarrassment, I'd have thought that the herald blokes would have been told to desist with the
sideways look,
wry and
pithy football articles, in the event that they offend anyone. Or does that only apply to rahoops?
Posted by: Succulent Lamb, Charlotte Square on 7:30am Sun 11 May 08
Here, Ian, here, boy!
Good boy!
Who's a good boy?
Look at the good boy wag his tail..
Do you want your winalot now? You deserve it!
Good boy, Ian.
Now go to your basket, and stay there.
Here, Ian, here, boy!
Good boy!
Who's a good boy?
Look at the good boy wag his tail..
Do you want your winalot now? You deserve it!
Good boy, Ian.
Now go to your basket, and stay there.
Posted by: kerr, brisbane on 7:32am Sun 11 May 08
The SPL fixture set up is a complete joke.
They say they couldn,t extend season so why are Rangers playing ST Mirren on 19th may when league split was on 5th of april.
The SPL fixture set up is a complete joke.
They say they couldn,t extend season so why are Rangers playing ST Mirren on 19th may when league split was on 5th of april.
Posted by: Alba on 7:54am Sun 11 May 08
Dundee united sought a postponement of their next match following the Phil O'Donnell tragedy. Their players were on the pitch and witnessed this tragedy. Solid grounds for a postponement you would think. Not so, said the SPL.
Celtic , belatedly sought a postponement. McGeady out, other injuries, not playing well. Postponement granted.
Sporting Integrity ?
Dundee united sought a postponement of their next match following the Phil O'Donnell tragedy. Their players were on the pitch and witnessed this tragedy. Solid grounds for a postponement you would think. Not so, said the SPL.
Celtic , belatedly sought a postponement. McGeady out, other injuries, not playing well. Postponement granted.
Sporting Integrity ?
Posted by: gorrob, gorrob on 9:14am Sun 11 May 08
[quote][bold]Bryce Curdy[/bold] wrote:
gorrob - I wish Rangers fans and the idiots in the media would stop lying about Celtic being helped in 2003. Let me point out the obvious differences: 1. Dundee AGREED to the game being BROUGHT FORWARD three days. It suited tham as they were preparing for the cup final. Dundee Utd. did NOT AGREE to POSTPONING yesterday\'s match. 2. The arrangement did not affect any other club. 3. The arrangement did not extend the season. 4. Celtic had not already benefitted from a decision which helped one club and one club only and which the other clubs disagreed with. 5. The arrangement did NOT help Celtic in the SPL. In fact it meant they sacrificed three days preparation for a crucial match, the second last SPL game of the campaign. They conceded two goals in the match which ultimately cost them the title. Likewise in the Scottish Cup Celtic rested almost their entire first team and lost. I had no complaints about either decision. Unlike Rearrangers, we realised we cannot expect to have our cake and eat it and made tough decisions. Rest players and sacrifice SPL preparation time to try and win the UEFA Cup. Rangers are not prepared to do this and it stinks. Please stop lying about this.[/quote] where do you start.....
1 celtc asked for a game to be cancelled to allow them to prepare for their ultimately unsuccesful UEFA final - they were were allowed to do so by Dundee agreeing to this and the cancellation being sanctioned and agreed with the SPL (you cant just cancel a game - you do need permission). rangers asked and were told no by both the club and the Support Peter Liewell (SPL)
2 and the point of that is?
3 the only reason that rangers season would have need extension is the physical impossibilty of fitting all the games in the timescale
4 I assume here that you mean the Gretna cancellation - a cancellation agreed with by Gretna and affecting no other club - the very points you are using to say that celtc's helping hand should not be counted - make your mind up!
5 We were not asking for help in the SPL only the same chance afforded to celtc in the UEFA - a week to prepare. The backlog of games meant that it was impossible to fit them all into the remaining period of the SPL. We would have loved the chance to do what celtc did - two games a week until the end of the season. where would you have had us fit in the Dundee Utd game if we had done as you say??
and all of this without rangers making open threats about fan disorder if we don't get out way
just a wee distinction there about the difference of lies and the truth - celtc were allowed a week to prepare (helped, if you will) rangers were not.
still, we feel your pain, and are laughing at it
Bryce Curdy wrote:
gorrob - I wish Rangers fans and the idiots in the media would stop lying about Celtic being helped in 2003. Let me point out the obvious differences: 1. Dundee AGREED to the game being BROUGHT FORWARD three days. It suited tham as they were preparing for the cup final. Dundee Utd. did NOT AGREE to POSTPONING yesterday\'s match. 2. The arrangement did not affect any other club. 3. The arrangement did not extend the season. 4. Celtic had not already benefitted from a decision which helped one club and one club only and which the other clubs disagreed with. 5. The arrangement did NOT help Celtic in the SPL. In fact it meant they sacrificed three days preparation for a crucial match, the second last SPL game of the campaign. They conceded two goals in the match which ultimately cost them the title. Likewise in the Scottish Cup Celtic rested almost their entire first team and lost. I had no complaints about either decision. Unlike Rearrangers, we realised we cannot expect to have our cake and eat it and made tough decisions. Rest players and sacrifice SPL preparation time to try and win the UEFA Cup. Rangers are not prepared to do this and it stinks. Please stop lying about this.
where do you start.....
1 celtc asked for a game to be cancelled to allow them to prepare for their ultimately unsuccesful UEFA final - they were were allowed to do so by Dundee agreeing to this and the cancellation being sanctioned and agreed with the SPL (you cant just cancel a game - you do need permission). rangers asked and were told no by both the club and the Support Peter Liewell (SPL)
2 and the point of that is?
3 the only reason that rangers season would have need extension is the physical impossibilty of fitting all the games in the timescale
4 I assume here that you mean the Gretna cancellation - a cancellation agreed with by Gretna and affecting no other club - the very points you are using to say that celtc's helping hand should not be counted - make your mind up!
5 We were not asking for help in the SPL only the same chance afforded to celtc in the UEFA - a week to prepare. The backlog of games meant that it was impossible to fit them all into the remaining period of the SPL. We would have loved the chance to do what celtc did - two games a week until the end of the season. where would you have had us fit in the Dundee Utd game if we had done as you say??
and all of this without rangers making open threats about fan disorder if we don't get out way
just a wee distinction there about the difference of lies and the truth - celtc were allowed a week to prepare (helped, if you will) rangers were not.
still, we feel your pain, and are laughing at it
Posted by: shug, rotterdam on 9:28am Sun 11 May 08
Celtic have had a few dodgy decisions in their favour recently, now Rangers get some.
Seems to me that this points more in the direction of poor refereeing than bias towards one particular club.
In any event, it will give the "conspiracy nutters" on both sides of the OF a headache trying to work out what it all means!
On the subject of an extension of the season. If a similar situation occured over here, the Dutch clubs would have found a solution for their representative playing in a European final. Nobody would dare to be seen publicly putting up obstacles to stop another club having a break before such an important match- nor would they want to.
Celtic have had a few dodgy decisions in their favour recently, now Rangers get some.
Seems to me that this points more in the direction of poor refereeing than bias towards one particular club.
In any event, it will give the "conspiracy nutters" on both sides of the OF a headache trying to work out what it all means!
On the subject of an extension of the season. If a similar situation occured over here, the Dutch clubs would have found a solution for their representative playing in a European final. Nobody would dare to be seen publicly putting up obstacles to stop another club having a break before such an important match- nor would they want to.
Posted by: Mario Kempes on 9:35am Sun 11 May 08
The authorities in this country really have risen up this season in Rangers hour of need. The astonishing tabloid campaign, the cohesion of Bain, Gordon Smith & the Daily Record has been breathtaking. For many there is only one side to this arguement-help Rangers win the league & the Uefa Cup"for Scotland" "Ok," say the SPL,"we'll postpone a league game for you and then we'll extend the league, OK?" and Bain said "NO we want MORE!" And no, this ouldn't happen in any other country. Can you imagine the English extending the league to help a team win the league and Champions league?
Oh, and to all those who claim that referees are simply incompetent, quickly google the name Bobby Tait.
Mr Tait, if you remember was the man who,it could be said, cost Rangers 10IAR. By adding on his customary "Time added-on for Rangers to score" against Killie, he was then shocked when, against the run of play, Killie scored to win the game!
On googling his name you will find that he now makes some coin as an after-dinner speaker at Rangers supporters' clubs. I have been told first hand that he revels in the fact that he never gave a penalty at Ibrox.
"Old Firm" eh? Just as bad as each other, 2 sides of the same coin etc etc
The authorities in this country really have risen up this season in Rangers hour of need. The astonishing tabloid campaign, the cohesion of Bain, Gordon Smith & the Daily Record has been breathtaking. For many there is only one side to this arguement-help Rangers win the league & the Uefa Cup"for Scotland" "Ok," say the SPL,"we'll postpone a league game for you and then we'll extend the league, OK?" and Bain said "NO we want MORE!" And no, this ouldn't happen in any other country. Can you imagine the English extending the league to help a team win the league and Champions league?
Oh, and to all those who claim that referees are simply incompetent, quickly google the name Bobby Tait.
Mr Tait, if you remember was the man who,it could be said, cost Rangers 10IAR. By adding on his customary "Time added-on for Rangers to score" against Killie, he was then shocked when, against the run of play, Killie scored to win the game!
On googling his name you will find that he now makes some coin as an after-dinner speaker at Rangers supporters' clubs. I have been told first hand that he revels in the fact that he never gave a penalty at Ibrox.
"Old Firm" eh? Just as bad as each other, 2 sides of the same coin etc etc
Posted by: Mario Kempes on 9:46am Sun 11 May 08
@Shug
I don't believe you. I don't believe that the Dutch league would cancel the team in questions' fixtures to give them a free weekend to prepare for the Uefa cup final. This whole idea that you NEED a free weekend seems to be quite new. The 2 spanish teams didn't need it for the last final. Neither did previous finalists. Playing the Saturday before a Wednesday final is nothing unusual despite what Murrays poodles will tell you. I really don't see the issue here. After the final Rangers have a bit of a pile up because of various factors, o'Donnell, the Ibrox pitch, gretna, 2 cup replays and they want the league extended to help them win it. Lets just be honest, eh?
To the poster a few above me - The Dundee game was not postponed but brought forward at no inconvenience to anybody else. We forfeited preparation for the league for preparation for the Uefa Final. Decisions that have to be made when competing for several trophies.
@Shug
I don't believe you. I don't believe that the Dutch league would cancel the team in questions' fixtures to give them a free weekend to prepare for the Uefa cup final. This whole idea that you NEED a free weekend seems to be quite new. The 2 spanish teams didn't need it for the last final. Neither did previous finalists. Playing the Saturday before a Wednesday final is nothing unusual despite what Murrays poodles will tell you. I really don't see the issue here. After the final Rangers have a bit of a pile up because of various factors, o'Donnell, the Ibrox pitch, gretna, 2 cup replays and they want the league extended to help them win it. Lets just be honest, eh?
To the poster a few above me - The Dundee game was not postponed but brought forward at no inconvenience to anybody else. We forfeited preparation for the league for preparation for the Uefa Final. Decisions that have to be made when competing for several trophies.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 10:04am Sun 11 May 08
mario
oh dear....hurting are we?
what happens when i google 'refereeing decisions in the past 5 weeks that have gone celtc's way' - the smae silence as you and your ilk?
the only reason that the league was extended (and would have needed any further extension) is the physical impossibility of fitting all the games in
'if you know your history' then you will know the league has been extended many, many times in the past - do the titles celtc won on these occasions not now count?
for the final time for the hard of thinking - the season would only have needed extending as it was physically impossible to fit it in all the games - not to allow us time to prepare for games
if we were given the same help as celtc were (a week to prepare for the UEFA final) then where would we have played the Dundee Utd game if the leage was not extended - answers on a brick please lobbed through a referees window as is the way of the celtc fan
mario
oh dear....hurting are we?
what happens when i google 'refereeing decisions in the past 5 weeks that have gone celtc's way' - the smae silence as you and your ilk?
the only reason that the league was extended (and would have needed any further extension) is the physical impossibility of fitting all the games in
'if you know your history' then you will know the league has been extended many, many times in the past - do the titles celtc won on these occasions not now count?
for the final time for the hard of thinking - the season would only have needed extending as it was physically impossible to fit it in all the games - not to allow us time to prepare for games
if we were given the same help as celtc were (a week to prepare for the UEFA final) then where would we have played the Dundee Utd game if the leage was not extended - answers on a brick please lobbed through a referees window as is the way of the celtc fan
Posted by: Wee George, NZ on 10:08am Sun 11 May 08
tcah: Believe me, I knew exactly what Tony was referring to. Unfortunately, he chose , much like yourself, to pepper his epistle with much anti-Rangers rhetoric which exposes his true agenda.
His, and others, assertions that referees cheat and the authorities bend over backwards to help Rangers is just so much tosh.
True, Rangers have made mistakes, but to lay all the blame for this mish-mash of arrangements is to only tell half the story.
But then, you have managed to do that with much of what you have written.
The "Phil O'Donnell postponement" was beyond belief. One can only wonder if it were a certain Maurice Johnston who was prematurely taken from the "wider Celtic family" would there have been the same hoo-ha. Come to think of it, it suited Celtic so much that Lawwell, that master of spin, would probably have made the same claim with him. Fine man and model pro though he was, many a Celtic fan couldn't wait to see the back of Phil O'Donnell. Integrity? PL doesn't know the meaning of the word.
Tell any Rangers fan that Mike McCurry actually favours the Light Blues and they'd be all for having you certified. Observing the changing perception of McCurry over the years has been something to behold. To many Gers fans, he had to be from the 'dark side'... "well, ah mean, wi' a name like that he huz tae be a tim". However, when it came to light that he was a Baptist minister, he is now forever tagged with the REV Mike McCurry, for reasons other than purely giving him his "proper" (if unwarranted) tile. To those in the East End, the reasoning was simple: Baptist = Proddie = Rangers fan. He may have made an error yesterday - I don't know, I haven't seen it - but to accuse him of being pro-Rangers has to be a joke. It's funny that the dodgy decisions made recently which have favoured Celtic, have attracted much less publicity in the press, especially given the furore over a pro-Rangers decision at Tynecastle a few seasons ago, when one "Celtic-minded" journo asserts that the SPL title that season was "tainted with the stench of cheating".
Anyhow, all of this is becoming a tad tedious, as it will not change events one iota. Rangers will just get on with it and hope for the best - and, at least this Wednesday, all of Scotland will be behind them........ aye right!
Even Sir Alex Ferguson, no friend of the Rangers believe me, sees how ludicrous this situation is. One wonders whether the same views would prevail in the now unlikely event we were talking about, for example, Dundee United or Motherwell, being in Rangers position. Somehow, I think not.
tcah: Believe me, I knew exactly what Tony was referring to. Unfortunately, he chose , much like yourself, to pepper his epistle with much anti-Rangers rhetoric which exposes his true agenda.
His, and others, assertions that referees cheat and the authorities bend over backwards to help Rangers is just so much tosh.
True, Rangers have made mistakes, but to lay all the blame for this mish-mash of arrangements is to only tell half the story.
But then, you have managed to do that with much of what you have written.
The "Phil O'Donnell postponement" was beyond belief. One can only wonder if it were a certain Maurice Johnston who was prematurely taken from the "wider Celtic family" would there have been the same hoo-ha. Come to think of it, it suited Celtic so much that Lawwell, that master of spin, would probably have made the same claim with him. Fine man and model pro though he was, many a Celtic fan couldn't wait to see the back of Phil O'Donnell. Integrity? PL doesn't know the meaning of the word.
Tell any Rangers fan that Mike McCurry actually favours the Light Blues and they'd be all for having you certified. Observing the changing perception of McCurry over the years has been something to behold. To many Gers fans, he had to be from the 'dark side'... "well, ah mean, wi' a name like that he huz tae be a tim". However, when it came to light that he was a Baptist minister, he is now forever tagged with the REV Mike McCurry, for reasons other than purely giving him his "proper" (if unwarranted) tile. To those in the East End, the reasoning was simple: Baptist = Proddie = Rangers fan. He may have made an error yesterday - I don't know, I haven't seen it - but to accuse him of being pro-Rangers has to be a joke. It's funny that the dodgy decisions made recently which have favoured Celtic, have attracted much less publicity in the press, especially given the furore over a pro-Rangers decision at Tynecastle a few seasons ago, when one "Celtic-minded" journo asserts that the SPL title that season was "tainted with the stench of cheating".
Anyhow, all of this is becoming a tad tedious, as it will not change events one iota. Rangers will just get on with it and hope for the best - and, at least this Wednesday, all of Scotland will be behind them........ aye right!
Even Sir Alex Ferguson, no friend of the Rangers believe me, sees how ludicrous this situation is. One wonders whether the same views would prevail in the now unlikely event we were talking about, for example, Dundee United or Motherwell, being in Rangers position. Somehow, I think not.
Posted by: Danny, Dumbarton on 10:22am Sun 11 May 08
Aberdeen requested a game postponed earlier this season to prepare for a European tie,the SPL refused them.There was no outcry in the media then,no-one called the SPL a mickey mouse league,in fact,not one journo(I use the term loosely)said anything.
The league has already been extended,against all bar one,of it`s members wishes,now there is a vociferous campaign led by moonbeams and his pack of press hounds to have it extended further,however,I have the solution.
If moonbeams can convince the SPL,UEFA,and the SFA(Sash Gordon would be happy to assist methinks)to allow Brither McCurry to referee all of rangers remaining games,thereby ensuring victory,there will be no problem.
This solution,admittedly,
would inconvenience every club rangers were playing,but it would lead to them winning every game.I`m sure every one of the laptop loyal would gloss over any inconsistencies and hail this victory for common sense.
Aberdeen requested a game postponed earlier this season to prepare for a European tie,the SPL refused them.There was no outcry in the media then,no-one called the SPL a mickey mouse league,in fact,not one journo(I use the term loosely)said anything.
The league has already been extended,against all bar one,of it`s members wishes,now there is a vociferous campaign led by moonbeams and his pack of press hounds to have it extended further,however,I have the solution.
If moonbeams can convince the SPL,UEFA,and the SFA(Sash Gordon would be happy to assist methinks)to allow Brither McCurry to referee all of rangers remaining games,thereby ensuring victory,there will be no problem.
This solution,admittedly,
would inconvenience every club rangers were playing,but it would lead to them winning every game.I`m sure every one of the laptop loyal would gloss over any inconsistencies and hail this victory for common sense.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 10:24am Sun 11 May 08
to change subject for a moment
does anyone find it sad, and a shameful indictment of the inTIMidation of the mhedia, that the online edition of 'scotlands leading independant newspaper' does not have a preview of a major european final that involves a club from it's own country?
from anyone outside scotland this is the only editon they can access - yet no preview, nothing here in the sports pages to recognize the final at all....
to change subject for a moment
does anyone find it sad, and a shameful indictment of the inTIMidation of the mhedia, that the online edition of 'scotlands leading independant newspaper' does not have a preview of a major european final that involves a club from it's own country?
from anyone outside scotland this is the only editon they can access - yet no preview, nothing here in the sports pages to recognize the final at all....
Posted by: mario kempes on 10:50am Sun 11 May 08
@Gorrob
5 weeks? We're talking about decades here!
The older people here, the 45+ bracket, will remember a time when it was even more blatant. Celtic fans these days don't even know they're born!
I't's incredible now that many gers fans genuinly believe that media outlets, football authorities and referees now show a bias TOWARDS celtic. Maybe it's a sign that things are getting better.
Oh, and Gorrob. I post some evidence of possible referees' bias and it just means "I'm hurting"? Head in the sand, son.
@Gorrob
5 weeks? We're talking about decades here!
The older people here, the 45+ bracket, will remember a time when it was even more blatant. Celtic fans these days don't even know they're born!
I't's incredible now that many gers fans genuinly believe that media outlets, football authorities and referees now show a bias TOWARDS celtic. Maybe it's a sign that things are getting better.
Oh, and Gorrob. I post some evidence of possible referees' bias and it just means "I'm hurting"? Head in the sand, son.
Posted by: shug, rotterdam on 10:56am Sun 11 May 08
For Mario Kempes.
You don't believe me when I said that the Dutch would have helped out one of their clubs in a similar situation to which Rangers find themselves.
Have you forgotten about the Russian F.A. cancelling THREE fixtures for Zenit?????
Unfortunately for Rangers, national associations in Europe put the collective national interests first, unlike Scotland.
For Mario Kempes.
You don't believe me when I said that the Dutch would have helped out one of their clubs in a similar situation to which Rangers find themselves.
Have you forgotten about the Russian F.A. cancelling THREE fixtures for Zenit?????
Unfortunately for Rangers, national associations in Europe put the collective national interests first, unlike Scotland.
Posted by: Jamie Waddell, Muscat, Oman on 10:59am Sun 11 May 08
Only in Scotland!
Perhaps the answer is to have a european league of referees? Apart from the usual acusations I find whgen SPL clubs play in Europe we do not get a fair crack. What is acceptible in the SPL is not in a European game! If ref's circulated from country to country we would all benefit in many ways.
Agains Celtic McDonald scored from a clear off-side position. Their penalaty was outside the box. Neil Lennon should have had a penalty at Ibrox1 It happens and it's simply incompetence. All referees are watched and their performance scrutinised. The game today is simply to quick for them.
Levin should knowit's about a whole season, not one match. He has not only embarrassed himself (who gives a sh1t about Arabs) he has disgraced Scotland.
Only in Scotland!
Perhaps the answer is to have a european league of referees? Apart from the usual acusations I find whgen SPL clubs play in Europe we do not get a fair crack. What is acceptible in the SPL is not in a European game! If ref's circulated from country to country we would all benefit in many ways.
Agains Celtic McDonald scored from a clear off-side position. Their penalaty was outside the box. Neil Lennon should have had a penalty at Ibrox1 It happens and it's simply incompetence. All referees are watched and their performance scrutinised. The game today is simply to quick for them.
Levin should knowit's about a whole season, not one match. He has not only embarrassed himself (who gives a sh1t about Arabs) he has disgraced Scotland.
Posted by: Mario Kempes on 11:02am Sun 11 May 08
...and these 5 weeks of decisions, while some are quite obviously wrong, derby offside for example, have been reported in a very interesting way.
the free kick @St mirren(a free kick ffs!!!)def DIDN'T get the ball, hit Naka, Naka goes down. Soft but COME ON! it's a foul.
The disallowed "goal" was never a goal anyway! the whistle can CLEARLY be heard BEFORE the shot not AFTER the shot. The "goal" wasn't disallowed because it wasn't a goal. Most of the players had stopped play. Of course, no mention whatsoever of the 2 disallowed Celtic goals in newspapers or TV highlights. Fuel for paranoia...
The corner(A CORNER!!!!!) was only apparent after replays and even then one angle gives the impression that it [italic]was[/italic] a corner.
The worst, though, is the manner of reporting. It's now accepted that Aberdeen had a goal chalked off. As if the decision was made after the goal!
Really,gers, is that all you've got? Tit for tat? Decades of pro-Rangers bias. [bold]Decades[/bold] referees found drunk in shop doorways after orange walks, making a living on the after dinner circuit at RSCs.
Honestly, have you no shame? Doesn't it embarass you?
...and these 5 weeks of decisions, while some are quite obviously wrong, derby offside for example, have been reported in a very interesting way.
the free kick @St mirren(a free kick ffs!!!)def DIDN'T get the ball, hit Naka, Naka goes down. Soft but COME ON! it's a foul.
The disallowed "goal" was never a goal anyway! the whistle can CLEARLY be heard BEFORE the shot not AFTER the shot. The "goal" wasn't disallowed because it wasn't a goal. Most of the players had stopped play. Of course, no mention whatsoever of the 2 disallowed Celtic goals in newspapers or TV highlights. Fuel for paranoia...
The corner(A CORNER!!!!!) was only apparent after replays and even then one angle gives the impression that it
was a corner.
The worst, though, is the manner of reporting. It's now accepted that Aberdeen had a goal chalked off. As if the decision was made after the goal!
Really,gers, is that all you've got? Tit for tat? Decades of pro-Rangers bias.
Decades referees found drunk in shop doorways after orange walks, making a living on the after dinner circuit at RSCs.
Honestly, have you no shame? Doesn't it embarass you?
Posted by: Mike Conway, Netherlands on 11:07am Sun 11 May 08
Umm...I thought it was quite an interesting point of view addressed in the article. Can I suggest the outraged simply put the scarfs down and read it like grown-ups not huffy children.
Umm...I thought it was quite an interesting point of view addressed in the article. Can I suggest the outraged simply put the scarfs down and read it like grown-ups not huffy children.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:09am Sun 11 May 08
mario
dear, oh dear, we really are hurting badly....lie down in a darkened room til friday...
its strange how the refereeing decisions started to even out when mass TV coverage of games began - rangers still got as many dodgy decisions but the world could see that the celtc got at least their share of them too
we can spend months of tit for tat mario, i am confident i can out anecdote you, but you will still never admit to anything other than this imaginary conspiracy
your need to be victimised outweighs any rational discussion...
I can feel your pain all the more now - and am laughing all the louder...
mario
dear, oh dear, we really are hurting badly....lie down in a darkened room til friday...
its strange how the refereeing decisions started to even out when mass TV coverage of games began - rangers still got as many dodgy decisions but the world could see that the celtc got at least their share of them too
we can spend months of tit for tat mario, i am confident i can out anecdote you, but you will still never admit to anything other than this imaginary conspiracy
your need to be victimised outweighs any rational discussion...
I can feel your pain all the more now - and am laughing all the louder...
Posted by: Bryce Curdy on 11:16am Sun 11 May 08
gorrob at 9.14 - I'm genuinely unsure whether you're stupid, arrogant or both. Point by point:
1. So you agree then. Dundee United refused to have the match postponed. What are you suggesting - that it should be moved anyway?
2. The point is obvious to anyone other than a dense, selfish Rearrangers fan. Five clubs in total have already had their season extended four days against their wishes for the benefit of one club and one club only. You are now suggesting the season should be extended a further week. This is preposterous. Players have holidays and weddings booked, the European Championship is due to start, the summer break is already short enough.
3. 'Physically impossible' - this is also how 'Walter' describes the sensation. I admit it may be less than ideal but it certainly isn't physically impossible. When it comes to playing four games it is physically possible to play them in anything over six hours.
4. No I was not referring to the St Mirren cancellation, but the four day extension already imposed for the benefit of Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone. Thank you for reminding me - Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone have already been aided by the SPL not once but twice this season.
5. What you want (your cake and to eat it) is simply not possible. The situation faced by Rearrangers is different from that faced by Celtic in 2003 and means that if Rearrangers want a full week to prepare for the UEFA Cup final then they would have to face more than two SPL games per week twice. What solution do you propose that is satisfactory to all six clubs (and let's not forget Queen of the South's biggest match in their history) rather than Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone.
gorrob at 9.14 - I'm genuinely unsure whether you're stupid, arrogant or both. Point by point:
1. So you agree then. Dundee United refused to have the match postponed. What are you suggesting - that it should be moved anyway?
2. The point is obvious to anyone other than a dense, selfish Rearrangers fan. Five clubs in total have already had their season extended four days against their wishes for the benefit of one club and one club only. You are now suggesting the season should be extended a further week. This is preposterous. Players have holidays and weddings booked, the European Championship is due to start, the summer break is already short enough.
3. 'Physically impossible' - this is also how 'Walter' describes the sensation. I admit it may be less than ideal but it certainly isn't physically impossible. When it comes to playing four games it is physically possible to play them in anything over six hours.
4. No I was not referring to the St Mirren cancellation, but the four day extension already imposed for the benefit of Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone. Thank you for reminding me - Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone have already been aided by the SPL not once but twice this season.
5. What you want (your cake and to eat it) is simply not possible. The situation faced by Rearrangers is different from that faced by Celtic in 2003 and means that if Rearrangers want a full week to prepare for the UEFA Cup final then they would have to face more than two SPL games per week twice. What solution do you propose that is satisfactory to all six clubs (and let's not forget Queen of the South's biggest match in their history) rather than Rearrangers and Rearrangers alone.
Posted by: Alex Gordon, Glasgow on 11:24am Sun 11 May 08
Mike,
At last someone who actually read the piece...
Now I know there are at least two sane people online.
Mike,
At last someone who actually read the piece...
Now I know there are at least two sane people online.
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:27am Sun 11 May 08
bryce - still hurting I see
1 yes Dundee Utd did not agree - an example of how no help was given to rangers - while dundee agreed to help celtc - that I think was the point - you said no help was given to celtc I was pointing out that there was
2 there have been many precedents of the season being exgtended in the past - why should this season be different - did celtc pay compensation on the occasions when this happened? the only team that need be inconvienced is dundee utd - no other team need to move games
3 physically impossible due to health and safety grounds - have you forgotten Phil O'Donnell already - players safety should be disregarded to suit celtc?
4 see 3 for the four day extension
5 the dundee utd game could have been cancelled and played after the cup final - no other teams would have been affected......
i note that you do not take issue with my assertion that celtc were, indeed, assisted in their ultimately unsucceseful attempt on the final, while rangers have not been. irrespective of out differing views on the reasons for that - it is undeniable that this is the case
bryce - still hurting I see
1 yes Dundee Utd did not agree - an example of how no help was given to rangers - while dundee agreed to help celtc - that I think was the point - you said no help was given to celtc I was pointing out that there was
2 there have been many precedents of the season being exgtended in the past - why should this season be different - did celtc pay compensation on the occasions when this happened? the only team that need be inconvienced is dundee utd - no other team need to move games
3 physically impossible due to health and safety grounds - have you forgotten Phil O'Donnell already - players safety should be disregarded to suit celtc?
4 see 3 for the four day extension
5 the dundee utd game could have been cancelled and played after the cup final - no other teams would have been affected......
i note that you do not take issue with my assertion that celtc were, indeed, assisted in their ultimately unsucceseful attempt on the final, while rangers have not been. irrespective of out differing views on the reasons for that - it is undeniable that this is the case
Posted by: gorrob, glasgow on 11:31am Sun 11 May 08
sorry bhoys - have more important things to be doing - trip to the UEFA cup final to finalise and will have to leave the message board to you
been fun having a laugh at your pain.....
mon the Hibs......
sorry bhoys - have more important things to be doing - trip to the UEFA cup final to finalise and will have to leave the message board to you
been fun having a laugh at your pain.....
mon the Hibs......
Posted by: Frank, Livingston on 11:35am Sun 11 May 08
[quote]Aberdeen requested a game postponed earlier this season to prepare for a European tie,the SPL refused them[/quote]
Aberdeen's opponents, Motherwell, said no.
Aberdeen requested a game postponed earlier this season to prepare for a European tie,the SPL refused them
Aberdeen's opponents, Motherwell, said no.
Posted by: Bryce Curdy on 11:46am Sun 11 May 08
gorrob:
1. It wasn't so much a case of Dundee helping as the switch suiting them also - they were preparing for the Cup final. Dundee Utd. thought their best chance of a result to aid their important bid for a European place was playing Rangers yesterday. But for the most scandalous refereeing performances of many a year, they would have got one, so their decision is vindicated.
2. There is also the precedent of playing more than two games a week. I am aware of at least three occasions in my lifetime when Celtic have done this. It happens most years in the Premier League over the Christmas holiday period. It happened to Middlesbrough in their UEFA Cup final year and to Seville in 2006 when they were in the UEFA Cup final. It is not unusual. Extending the season not once but twice is.
All the games have to be moved because it is only fair (and may even be in the SPL constitution) that the last round of games have to be played simultaneously. Remember the infamous West Germany-Austria 0-0 draw in the 1978 World Cup, or Argentina knowing exactly how many goals they required against Peru in the same competition? Imagine a scenario of Rangers playing Dundee Utd. knowing a draw would give Rangers the title and Dundee Utd. the UEFA Cup spot.
3. and 4. Utter nonsense, no elaboration required
5. See 2
gorrob:
1. It wasn't so much a case of Dundee helping as the switch suiting them also - they were preparing for the Cup final. Dundee Utd. thought their best chance of a result to aid their important bid for a European place was playing Rangers yesterday. But for the most scandalous refereeing performances of many a year, they would have got one, so their decision is vindicated.
2. There is also the precedent of playing more than two games a week. I am aware of at least three occasions in my lifetime when Celtic have done this. It happens most years in the Premier League over the Christmas holiday period. It happened to Middlesbrough in their UEFA Cup final year and to Seville in 2006 when they were in the UEFA Cup final. It is not unusual. Extending the season not once but twice is.
All the games have to be moved because it is only fair (and may even be in the SPL constitution) that the last round of games have to be played simultaneously. Remember the infamous West Germany-Austria 0-0 draw in the 1978 World Cup, or Argentina knowing exactly how many goals they required against Peru in the same competition? Imagine a scenario of Rangers playing Dundee Utd. knowing a draw would give Rangers the title and Dundee Utd. the UEFA Cup spot.
3. and 4. Utter nonsense, no elaboration required
5. See 2
Posted by: Alex Gordon, Glasgow on 12:16pm Sun 11 May 08
Rather than fancy european solutions, it'd be much less hassle to wind up Rangers and Celtic.
Rather than fancy european solutions, it'd be much less hassle to wind up Rangers and Celtic.
Posted by: Barney Nicholls, Manchester on 12:22pm Sun 11 May 08
Gorrob, please do my city a favour and stay put. Your small minded, prejudiced, pathetically blinkered views are not welcome in my city and nor are the other 100,000 (allegedly!) bigoted morons. You think anyone in Manchester (other than those of an extremely right wing disposition) want the pond life of Scotland/Ulster (wherever) marauding drunkly around our city singing filthy songs of bigotry and hate then think again. European finals are supposed to be great occasions and to have one in your home city would normally be something to celebrate, I mean the opportunity to meet and mix with people from different cultures and backgrounds with one common interest, sport, is something to look forward to. Unfortunately on this occasion most decent minded Manchester folk are staying well clear and the common view is that the sooner its over the better, we all just pray our city's left in one piece. I'll finish as I started with a request, Gorrob and all like him, please stay away, we don't need you or the baggage you bring!
Gorrob, please do my city a favour and stay put. Your small minded, prejudiced, pathetically blinkered views are not welcome in my city and nor are the other 100,000 (allegedly!) bigoted morons. You think anyone in Manchester (other than those of an extremely right wing disposition) want the pond life of Scotland/Ulster (wherever) marauding drunkly around our city singing filthy songs of bigotry and hate then think again. European finals are supposed to be great occasions and to have one in your home city would normally be something to celebrate, I mean the opportunity to meet and mix with people from different cultures and backgrounds with one common interest, sport, is something to look forward to. Unfortunately on this occasion most decent minded Manchester folk are staying well clear and the common view is that the sooner its over the better, we all just pray our city's left in one piece. I'll finish as I started with a request, Gorrob and all like him, please stay away, we don't need you or the baggage you bring!
Posted by: Craig, Bournemouth on 12:26pm Sun 11 May 08
I think this article tried to justify the "columnist of the year" tag at the top but i don't think i've read such a boring article at a time when the whole fixture schedule debate is now boring. I'll keep it going of course:)
Zenit have most of their season to play the rescheduled games. Rangers, like Zenit had a game called off at their own request to play a Uefa Cup game. Clubs take for granted that you can actually approach another club and arrange this and the reason given was that Rangers dangle a finanical carrot in front of Gretna.
Zenit have to cross about five time-zones and and tens of thousands of miles and have a week to prepair. Rangers have three days to prepair and their travel consists of 35 minutes with Flybe from Glasgow.
Rangers have to play four games in four days but there's no real alternative. Of course the Rangers fans and employees wont see the problem of seeing Celtic and other clubs sitting around for 16 days until they can play a potential title decider. A lot of good players at the Old Firm see Europe as the reason for staying. How can all these cliubs be left hanging on for such a long time and not have league as a whol looking bad? The fixture list at the moment is one club burden and they must shoulder it. It has been a tough year for fixtures but could easily happen again. The Uefa cup is designed now to let Europes second tier get to the latter stages. With our weather, lack of infrastructure and acts of god to contend with we could realistcally be juggling the day the season ends. The League has been extended with no real winner. To extend it further would disadvantage clubs who have nothing to do with the Uefa Cup final os the burden is Rangers in this case and may be Celtics next time.
understandably, Rangers didn't want to play against Dundee United in case of injury. Well butting folk and throwing punches surely isn't the way to win a "fair play" award before such a big game. Celtic did have a couple fo decisions go their way lately. Most notably an off-side against Rangers. Kenny Clark within days was apologising for it.
I wonder if Mike McCurry will apologise for three red cards, a goal and a penalty from yesterday that were not given.
The Uefa Cup final is a great occasion and was when Celtic made it. However, the knock-on effects are exaggerated. The view that a Scottish reaching it will lead all to the land of milk and honey is simply not the case. It doesn't suddenly lead to attracting top players. Rangers more than anyone know that money does that. Celtic and Rangers have their own reputations, good or bad in Europe. I hate to use the word "integrity" given recent comment but a good cup run is a short term boost, mostly for the club involved.
I think this article tried to justify the "columnist of the year" tag at the top but i don't think i've read such a boring article at a time when the whole fixture schedule debate is now boring. I'll keep it going of course:)
Zenit have most of their season to play the rescheduled games. Rangers, like Zenit had a game called off at their own request to play a Uefa Cup game. Clubs take for granted that you can actually approach another club and arrange this and the reason given was that Rangers dangle a finanical carrot in front of Gretna.
Zenit have to cross about five time-zones and and tens of thousands of miles and have a week to prepair. Rangers have three days to prepair and their travel consists of 35 minutes with Flybe from Glasgow.
Rangers have to play four games in four days but there's no real alternative. Of course the Rangers fans and employees wont see the problem of seeing Celtic and other clubs sitting around for 16 days until they can play a potential title decider. A lot of good players at the Old Firm see Europe as the reason for staying. How can all these cliubs be left hanging on for such a long time and not have league as a whol looking bad? The fixture list at the moment is one club burden and they must shoulder it. It has been a tough year for fixtures but could easily happen again. The Uefa cup is designed now to let Europes second tier get to the latter stages. With our weather, lack of infrastructure and acts of god to contend with we could realistcally be juggling the day the season ends. The League has been extended with no real winner. To extend it further would disadvantage clubs who have nothing to do with the Uefa Cup final os the burden is Rangers in this case and may be Celtics next time.
understandably, Rangers didn't want to play against Dundee United in case of injury. Well butting folk and throwing punches surely isn't the way to win a "fair play" award before such a big game. Celtic did have a couple fo decisions go their way lately. Most notably an off-side against Rangers. Kenny Clark within days was apologising for it.
I wonder if Mike McCurry will apologise for three red cards, a goal and a penalty from yesterday that were not given.
The Uefa Cup final is a great occasion and was when Celtic made it. However, the knock-on effects are exaggerated. The view that a Scottish reaching it will lead all to the land of milk and honey is simply not the case. It doesn't suddenly lead to attracting top players. Rangers more than anyone know that money does that. Celtic and Rangers have their own reputations, good or bad in Europe. I hate to use the word "integrity" given recent comment but a good cup run is a short term boost, mostly for the club involved.
Posted by: We R going to Manchester, govan on 1:06pm Sun 11 May 08
Gordon Johnston says McCurry aided Rangers. So Gordon, did you forget to mention the GOAL Aberdeen got chalked off against Celtic a few weeks ago? The ref even admitted he was wrong.
WHY did you forget to mention that. Are you trying to deflect attention away from that? Well, NO chance.
AND Gordon, we ARE going to MANCHESTER and you are not. END of story.
Gordon Johnston says McCurry aided Rangers. So Gordon, did you forget to mention the GOAL Aberdeen got chalked off against Celtic a few weeks ago? The ref even admitted he was wrong.
WHY did you forget to mention that. Are you trying to deflect attention away from that? Well, NO chance.
AND Gordon, we ARE going to MANCHESTER and you are not. END of story.
Posted by: Celtic are NOT going to Manchester, WeAREgOINGToMAnchest
er on 1:08pm Sun 11 May 08
We are going to Manchester and Timmy/Celtic are not....
END OF STORY
Rangers 3 Dundee U 1 - END OF STORY AGAIN.
We are going to Manchester and Timmy/Celtic are not....
END OF STORY
Rangers 3 Dundee U 1 - END OF STORY AGAIN.
Posted by: WE ARE going to Manchester, ANDCELTICARENOTGOING on 1:12pm Sun 11 May 08
Craig, u r sore son eh?
WE are going to Manchester and YOU are not eh son?
Hello hello ...
I am not getting my sash and flute ready for the convoy down...
Rangers 3 United 1 - end of story son... end of story...
Did you complain when the Aberdeen goal was chalked off son?
Manchester here we come... the famous glasgow rangers.
Craig, u r sore son eh?
WE are going to Manchester and YOU are not eh son?
Hello hello ...
I am not getting my sash and flute ready for the convoy down...
Rangers 3 United 1 - end of story son... end of story...
Did you complain when the Aberdeen goal was chalked off son?
Manchester here we come... the famous glasgow rangers.
Posted by: oh dear, glasgow on 1:21pm Sun 11 May 08
To Barney
Your reply says it all about you.
Maybe the friends down there i know from work who are looking forward to it and the many manchester folk who have been on several rangers sites offering advice and help are just the helpful tiny minority?
Either that or your talking pants based on hatred and ignorance.
To Barney
Your reply says it all about you.
Maybe the friends down there i know from work who are looking forward to it and the many manchester folk who have been on several rangers sites offering advice and help are just the helpful tiny minority?
Either that or your talking pants based on hatred and ignorance.
Posted by: Strathdee, West Lothian on 1:21pm Sun 11 May 08
All things being equal it would have great to have given Rangers a better chance at lifting the UEFA Cup by extending the league season. But by doing so that would have disadvantaged, Motherwell, Hibernian, and Aberdeen, who were all fighting it for third place. It would have disadvantaged Celtic to an even greater extent.
Celtic quite clearly feel they have a better chance of winning the SPL when it can reasonably be expected that the Rangers squad may be somewhat lethargic. It has to be remembered that there is not just the glory of winning the SPL at stake. Automatic entry to the Champions League, with all it's financial booty, is also at stake. Why then should Celtic, Aberdeen, Motherwell, and Hibs disadvantage themselves for the benefit of Rangers?
All things being equal it would have great to have given Rangers a better chance at lifting the UEFA Cup by extending the league season. But by doing so that would have disadvantaged, Motherwell, Hibernian, and Aberdeen, who were all fighting it for third place. It would have disadvantaged Celtic to an even greater extent.
Celtic quite clearly feel they have a better chance of winning the SPL when it can reasonably be expected that the Rangers squad may be somewhat lethargic. It has to be remembered that there is not just the glory of winning the SPL at stake. Automatic entry to the Champions League, with all it's financial booty, is also at stake. Why then should Celtic, Aberdeen, Motherwell, and Hibs disadvantage themselves for the benefit of Rangers?
Posted by: Strathdee, West Lothian on 1:29pm Sun 11 May 08
[quote][bold]Strathdee[/bold] wrote:
All things being equal it would have great to have given Rangers a better chance at lifting the UEFA Cup by extending the league season. But by doing so that would have disadvantaged, Motherwell, Hibernian, and Aberdeen, who were all fighting it for third place. It would have disadvantaged Celtic to an even greater extent. Celtic quite clearly feel they have a better chance of winning the SPL when it can reasonably be expected that the Rangers squad may be somewhat lethargic. It has to be remembered that there is not just the glory of winning the SPL at stake. Automatic entry to the Champions League, with all it's financial booty, is also at stake. Why then should Celtic, Aberdeen, Motherwell, and Hibs disadvantage themselves for the benefit of Rangers?[/quote] I forgot to add Queen of the South to the list of clubs against extending the domestic season.
Strathdee wrote:
All things being equal it would have great to have given Rangers a better chance at lifting the UEFA Cup by extending the league season. But by doing so that would have disadvantaged, Motherwell, Hibernian, and Aberdeen, who were all fighting it for third place. It would have disadvantaged Celtic to an even greater extent. Celtic quite clearly feel they have a better chance of winning the SPL when it can reasonably be expected that the Rangers squad may be somewhat lethargic. It has to be remembered that there is not just the glory of winning the SPL at stake. Automatic entry to the Champions League, with all it's financial booty, is also at stake. Why then should Celtic, Aberdeen, Motherwell, and Hibs disadvantage themselves for the benefit of Rangers?
I forgot to add Queen of the South to the list of clubs against extending the domestic season.
Posted by: Strathdee, West Lothian on 1:43pm Sun 11 May 08
Let me correct myself: there is (rather disgracefully) no automatic entry to the Champions League next season for the SPL winners. However the SPL winners play in the third qualification round whilst the SPL runners-up play an additional qualification round.
Let me correct myself: there is (rather disgracefully) no automatic entry to the Champions League next season for the SPL winners. H